compfreak847

Welcome to the electronic world, where measurments are taken in billionths of a second and there is no such thing as at the same time. One person's signal reaches Jagex before the other. What? That's exactly what I said - the numbers and mechanics operate independently of the animations, which are simply tacked on afterwords, sometimes messing up. That's due to animations being added on. I'm not sure what your talking about with your rounds - I've never noticed it, with thousands of hours of play time logged. An example would serve your point - the only ones you offered were directly addressed with my comments on animations. And what was with the random quantim mechanics thrown in? Quantum mechanics has to do with randomness on the atomic level, not set intervals. Why wouldn't they? If a player clicks on a monster first, they get it. Period. It doesn't have a thing to do with weapon speeds sin the KB. It's very easy for a server to determine which message came in first. The only limiting factor in electronic transmissions is the speed of light, which isn't too big of a concern given that we are mixing in human response times. How many people have you tested this with? As a melee player, I virtually always get the monster - I average at LEAST 9\10 'grabs' against a ranger. The main reason that meleers lose is because they don't position themselves exactly along the 'square' of the monster, and thus have to step backwards or forwards to attack, giving the ranger extra time. Ehh? An ancient mage will devastate a person in a d chain vs. a ranger; the meleer can't even touch him. And your complaining that range is overpowered in the combat triangle, which has nothing to do with this rant :shock:

Either your highly intelligent, or you just pulled out some random numbers. Could you explain where you got some of them? (oh, and it's spelled 'the', not 'teh'. That annoys me for some reason :lol: )

Erm... Try replacing the link in your current sig pic with the new one, and if that still works, replace the image with the new one? It's how I fix weird profile glitches that would take too long to redo...

It's working fine for me... I just replaced the l in url and g in img.

Got it, but if stricter moderation is *truely* being enforced, posts like this might be dealt with harshly, or more so in the future - making all of us suffer. Keep it in a PM or something :x Compfreak... he doesn't forgive, he doesn't forget, and he definetely doesn't joke. Hey now... I'm all business in a debate, but I don't mind personal posts when there's a time and place for them :twss: D03z j00 (ugh) !13k mudk1pz? No one did, this argument is about range being annoying to those not training it :P

60 minutes = 60 minutes of use. 15 minutes = 15 minutes from first equipping. Degrades regardless of combat when equipped. Corrupt weapons almost inanely stupid to use at the moment, expect them to fall to a few hundred K apiece, at the most.

Yes, it would. As soon as your animation starts, you have that monster. That's my entire point. The kill is decided before anyone hits or any animations start. If the meleer wins, he beings to go through his whole 'anchor attack' animation. If the ranger wins, he begins his 'pull out the arrow and notch the bow' animation. If a meleer with an anchor gets the 'attack' signal into the server first, he will beat someone with a dd++ - even though it may take a second or longer for him to hit after the animation, and the person with the dagger may click attack in that time. There isn't more to the 'internet latency'; whoever clicks first gets that monster, as long as they can hit them from where they are standing. The 'illusion' of a ranger getting the monster after you hit is due to latency in your connection watching the ranger, the distance the ranger's arrow has to travel (although the timed hit is still the same), and the time it takes for the 'notch the bow and shoot' animation. Jagex has programed in animations as an afterthought; it's the same way with an AGS, you might miss the whole 'jump and dance' animation if you are hit just after you start it - but your hit will still register. Same goes for healing with a non-combat summon scroll while in combat - you might time it so that you jump up with the scroll animation so that only the hit on the opponent registers, and not your animation - but the hit will still register. The game is programed based on timings and hits; animations are simply layered on top of that. Far be it from me to be a 'wannabe mod' (although, technically, I am), but could you please keep on topic and leave personal opinions out of this?

Ping latency, the time it takes for your computer to communicate with a specific server on the internet. Measured in milliseconds, or 1/1,000th of a second. 50 milliseconds is .05 seconds - far faster then the average human reaction, which is anywhere from .25-.75 - hence internet connection speed is of less importance then reaction speed. I've almost never experienced it, besides one time when I was getting annoyed by a meleer, so I hid behind the nearest fence and stole 3 yaks at once with bronze knives. Bad deal for me, though - I either had to waste money on knives or waste time running around to pick them up. I just did that until he hopped, then went back to normal killing. I call it one of the perks of range training. Yeah... Training it might help give perspective. It was a decent argument, but Tip.it is far from being the only place. Zybez is OK, as is the RSOF if you can filter out the 'one post and leave' type posters. Tip.it used to be more valid points, less personal attacks\opinions a few years ago, as we've grown we've lost some of that :| That's it? No final argument? :P

Uhm if you ask which is better you've got something to compare them with: and that thing CAN be xp/hour.. For xp/hour: well even at lv 85+constantly potting ranged I've experience that EVEN AT irons void is slightly faster each task (and hence more xp/hour) than black dragonhide (+archer helmet/barrowgloves). Never tested it at the kbd though.. But also consider this: since diamond bolts neglect the opponents defense a lot, diamond bolts + void is a natural choice for bosses! Personally the only thing that void lacks is defensive protection... But that's never needed! Diamond bolts specials are fairly rare; you shouldn't be relying on them in exchange for accuracy. Also, Inuashkant was referring to broad bolts. However, I do agree with you. I have done a fair bit of testing (~9 hours) at clan wars with void vs. karils. Here's what I've found: Void tends to hit higher, and is more accurate compared to verac helm + karils top and bottom + barrows gloves, and considerably more accurate then karils top\verac's skirt. In fact, crystal bow + void resulted in some downright astounding hits - I hit 31-30-32 in one hit sequence, killing my opponent as he was running towards me - and this was a high level player with a triple-digit combat level and bandos (large range bonus). I would say that void is superior for offensive power - however, I have not specifically tested broad bolts (hate 'em). Obviously void rules for low defence, but I'm starting to think that it may be more accurate then karils - I was astounded with my chinning results, getting much more XP and hitting far fewer zeros then with d hide at ape atoll skeles (admittedly, I gained 3 levels, from 92-95, between my void\d hide tests. Still, I'd say void takes the cake - I'd have to do some timed tests at metal drags to settle that for certain, though. Void really fails on defence, but not as much as you might think - I still get a decent bonus with DFS; enough to take care of most dd++ specs, and the fact that I can still barrage\burst with it is handy. Generally not as much of a concern in PVM as PVP, though. Arma is +5 extra range, along with slightly higher defence and a tiny prayer bonus. It shouldn't change results much compared to d hide - and is certainly not worth the fact that the alch price is so low that almost anything protects over it. I had arma a while ago when I did avansies; sold it when (supposedly) price manipulators pushed the price up 4m or so. At least I got something good out of it. :-#

Stats in sig. I'm fairly balanced. (almost) 92 summoning, 99 magic, 95 range, (almost) 97 attack\98 strength\97 defence. I don't really favor one combat class over another; I use all of them to my advantage, especially in clan wars. However, I disagree with the 'points' in this post - and have stated my opinions and reasons as such. And 'pretty fast internet' is relative - what's your ping latency? A good connection should be in the 50 millisecond range or lower; far lower then the average human reaction time. Therefore it mostly comes down to clicking speed, plus the fact that meleers have to be exactly positioned so that they don't have to dance or run to hit the monster. If you really want to complain about this, you should be complaining about magers, who can 1 click high level monsters.

Not a chance; it's whoever's signal for 'attack' gets to the game's server first. That has to do with factors like internet speed and network latency; the ranger\magers do have an advantage in that they won't have to dance around with the monster should they be incorrectly positioned. Not entirely true. It's a combination of clicking speed, Internet speed, weapon speed. Take this example: We have two identical computers with the same Internet connection in the same house (Provided that this was allowed by Jagex of course) and both have bots running RS with precise timing to click on a monster spawn at the exact same time. One bot is using a battle axe whereas the other is using a shortbow on rapid. The archer will always win. Using the weapon speeds given in the RS KB, the same could be said of pretty much any two weapons. To bring this example to the extreme, would it make sense if a guy with a barrelchest anchor beat another guy with knives just because his Internet was slightly faster? Wrong. As soon as the signal hits the server for 'attack', and if the meleer is in position, whoever gets there first wins. What matters is when the 'attack' signal gets there, not when the weapon animation finishes - the speeds in the KB only indicate how long of a delay there is between attacks. The only reason a ranger might seem to unfairly 'win' is if his bow has a long animation, so his arrow does not hit the monster for a short time after he has attacked; he still clicked first.

Ah, I wasn't going on a rampage because I thought you might be referring to melee armor, which is a stupid thing for a safespotting ranger to wear :P Feel free to respond to my points, though; I'd love to get a good argument going.

And I'm agreeing with you - but there's more to it then that; quite a few of our numbers hinge around earning rates, and changing them might not be as cut and dried as it seems - a higher earning rate could make slayer better or worse, depending on which training methods are more efficient. So we can't just say that piety would be more efficient if we use GWD without redoing EVERYTHING. And I enjoyed the road to 91 (almost 2) summoning. What do you mean? :?

I can see how that would limit your perspective - range and magic are very very limited in FTP. Still, I think it's a good thing - range and mage could certainly use it in FTP :|

Longswords still aren't better for monsters, although that's an interesting point you bring up about speccing - it really depends on your clicking speed.

How would they do that? If you can only attack one monster at once, there goes multi combat ancients and a cannon. Then you can't switch to another monster when one is redbarred while powertraining. It really makes no sense - but those safespoters have to run out to retrieve arrows and drops sooner or later; it balances out. Are you trying to sterotype rangers for 'stealing two monsters', which very few of us do by now? The same thing could be said about mages and faracsting; an annoying advantage due to the game programing, but one that is simply used to make up for the shortcomings of a class. That doesn't mean that rangers are annoying or ill mannered any more then farcasting does for mages. It's simply an advantage that they (and magers) share.

I don't know if you'd consider 133 combat a low level, but I find dd++ a very powerful knockout weapon, much more so then an abyssal whip or even AGS. Whip, obviously, is the weapon of choice for regular combat, but for that pull-out-and-combo power, dd++ has it (see avatar for details). True to some extent, the zeros and slow hits just aren't good with a d long. A dds tends to hit rather low on high defence, though - but it will murder pures of any sort.

Ehh... sounds like you'd have to match up lighting and other settings too perfectly, and one update by jagex could scrap the whole project. Qeltar does OK with it, but that's only for a small area.

Not a chance; it's whoever's signal for 'attack' gets to the game's server first. That has to do with factors like internet speed and network latency; the ranger\magers do have an advantage in that they won't have to dance around with the monster should they be incorrectly positioned. Very true, but not to many rangers do that - and magers can do it as well. Just hope they lag as their monsters are just over half HP, so you can steal and get the drops. I don't see this happening too much, though - not as many people use safespots since accumulators came out. Realism coming into play, good point - crossbows in RL can't be used one handed, but they are slower. Thrown axes and throwing knives are at least a bit realistic. Of course, who can fit 2.2 billion arrows in their backpack? (Or cannonballs, for that matter). They both went down the toilet several minutes after deviousMUD came out. Like it or not, blame it on skillcapes if you want, but runescape is a competition game - i.e., the goal most of the time is to be better then another player in one way or another.

Fair enough. Fair point - in real life, a bow takes a fair bit of time to prepare and shoot. Throwing knives can be fast, though. Then again, how many people do you know in real life that can cast magic spells? I hate many meleers too. Taking 2 monsters is annoying, I agree. The 10 second wait shouldn't be in place though; it's kind of a 'deal with it' thing. Here's where your rant starts breaking down. Range armor does increase your range attack bonus - and why bother standing out where you can get hit if you don't need to? It's the same sort of illogical thinking against farcasting, complete with the usual retort of 'fight like a man' Melee and range have similar max hits with common training weapons, at least in the lower levels. And your max hit goes up slowly but 'surly' with range too? :shock: Actually, that is what this is for. Just as you are welcome to post detailing your dislike of range, I can post about why I think you are wrong. That's not a thread, that's a cult. People are free to post their opinions, even if they differ from yours. No worries there.

See, piety is less efficient at the earning methods we're using, so we are limited to +10% strength, giving us an average of 60k melee XP at 100% attention. This + GWD = Fail Even if we did include GWD (which would make our old earning numbers go down, and possibly make monkies more efficient again), with piety you rarely make money - and your still not exceeding the 100k per hour of zombies.

Ah, that's why. What numbers do you get though - his is 65k, mine's 60k. That's for plain old melee XP with superhuman strength and no combat summon.

Good luck reading it. A lot of it is me and ydrasil going back and forth (I'm assuming he's either given up, away from a computer, or busy testing Bloodvields), and those posts were 4+ pages each - I copied one page from it into word and got 107 pages of text, most of it 'your numbers are wrong! no yours are!'. I'm not sure anyone could read through all of it in one sitting and maintain their sanity. I've got the opposite problem with slayer; I don't have the self control to devote my attention to rune. I find myself checking email, switching to AIM, reading up on the latest election news, and eventually standing there until I log out. Zombies let me pay attention for ~10 seconds every couple of minutes, while getting far better XP and money then slayer will ever get me, plus nearly as many charms - many of them blue, very handy for geyser titans. 490k XP worth of charms more, and 92 summoning it is - wolpertinger, here we come!

I agree. But according to the constitution, one of the requirements for a president is a 'natural born US citizen'. 8th grade constitution all over again :lol: Mage doesn't have to have a faster reaction - he's planning it, he can simply switch to ahrims top and bottom and barrage before the meleer knows whats going on. Fairly simple; for slow clickers, just an ahrims top should be simple with keyboard shortcuts - and still very likely to hit; with a -4 mage bonus in void, I hit at least 3\4ths the time. See avatar for details :P

True, but considering that the staff would probably the most valuable item in any mage set up, you'll probably keep it. Oh, and I love your "Verac Obama" signature. True, but you'll be risking other items as well. And there is a chance of losing it. I had to use it because you were advocating 'pure' combat styles - yes, mage fails against range armor. Pull out a whip and own, though... With ice\blood\shadow\smoke barrage, you have the upper hand, period. Oh, and the 'verac obama' is good, but I'm still voting Mccain :P As a student, I must say that McCain needs to go and to Mexico and never come back. Or something. But that's not the point. Pull out a whip with V skirt + K top and own more. At least Mccain was born in the US.. But I won't turn this into a politics debate :P K top has.. +7 more slash defence then ah top? It's basically a dead tie, except sooner or later the melee person will try to switch back to melee armor, especially if you put on dh top also - fast clicking means you can switch armor and barrage right after a whip attack, so you can freeze and sidestep to get 5-6 melee hits without touching him.