hohto

No en helvetis :shame:

Because according to Tip.IT's admins I could have a dictator's name as a username but I won't be allowed to show the author if the author of the book has commit crimes. I know it's a stupid way of interpreting rules , especially when I don't see myself even indirectly breaking any rules. I'd ask you to pm the admin who removed it if you think it has gone too far, I've already sent multiple pm's and here's the result. Btw funny thing is that the name in the sig was OK for over 3 years (before hop to this forum software) and it has been used by a global mod.

That's not the point, however I started in early 2001. The point is that you haven't experienced the dramatical changes in RS that have made it so much easier that you could act the way you are. So, you have experienced the pre-GE period. That makes things a bit easier, but it's far from the changes we've had in the past: I trained to 90 hp with ways that at tops gave 1/4th of the current "good" xp/h rate. People in the past spent longer uncerting items than you are now forced to use in order to get from 1 to lvl 99. Even the precious mining has changed a lot: now you can actually see if you should swing the pick to the rock, you use less clicks to do an "infinite swing" (mine until the rock is empty) than you did in the past to get one hit and so on. You don't know what RS was like and your comments on someone being "too new to know" are nothing more than funny and yet same time sad. Bottom line is: if GE is the thing that bothers you, you know nothing about the past. RS has changed a lot during the years and the trend is to make it "easier". GE itself is only one thing that has made RS easier and definately less affective on the "babying" way than many other updates. If I had to rank updates that have "babied" rs, GE wouldn't be even close to top 10.

I got other plans than collecting charms, so I assume I won't be even this high ranked for long.

99 craft, slay and fish same time + 2.3k total from them. Currently 5k from 99 slay, fish and craft are at lvl 96 and I don't need/can level anything else than those 3 to get the 2.3k.

I find if funny how someone who got lower overall and cmb level currently than I had in RSC uses that arguement. The fact is that the game gets easier all the time due updates and I find it pretty ironic how someone who hasn't even achieved anything yet is saying how "we old" are suffering from this "new" thing. I wouldn't say that's the only thing. After all even by trading the buyables were nothing compared to RC, slay or other such skills. Also certain items were not that hard to buy and for example due the smaller demand on raw materials and lesser supply on ending productions, certain skills were cheaper or at least had cheaper options than they have now.

So, without longer speeches (I've noticed most of you skip them anyways) here it is. First page in summon. Comment, rate, hate or sing something.

This same "problem" (I personally wouldn't want to use that word) has been here with many other updates too. When iron dragons came, they were fully packet. When the mith dragons came, slower people couldn't even get a fight. With hunter there's been a lot of competition. Waterfiends were packet when the spot came to larger attention. The point is that right after update certain things are popular and by time people will go for other things. If you aren't up for competition, wait for few weeks and go then.

I don't see why would that happen. Certain massproduced items have been sold for cheaper than the alch price in the past just to save time and efford. Selling dragon items for that kind of prices wouldn't happen for few reasons: you got so few items that alching them would infact be easier, faster and even more profitable. Because of this I assume that non massproduced items wouldn't ever fall below the high alch price (or the price-nat price) even if we didn't have the GE.

Before GE, the basic principal was that 9 people out of 10 made that fishbowl by themselves and one lucky hippy got it from his/her mate, found from the ground or bought for that 10k as he was lucky enough to find someone who had it banked. After they had used that fishbowl, it was in most cases dropped to the ground. Now with GE people tend to actually sell that fishbowl back to GE. This means there is more collective helping and certain items can be used by many people. Most people don't even think about that aspect when they sell certain items to GE that are worth approximately 1-2k, but that's how it works: those items are worth 1-2k as there is a need for them and people fill those needs with their own greediness.

If you had read the whole post, you wouldn't have found at least one answer :P yes, I do still collect (and use) them.

Missed it, but still a great thing mijn kind

gold 508 green 258 crimson 1096 blue 34 I got those with 10k deaths (5k bursts) when I was bursting. Depending on your level it means 500-570k xp costs 4,7-5m depending on today's rune prices. Note that it doesn't include prayer potions. What I heard the speed is roughly 130-150 crims per hour. That sounds pretty right in my ears but I didn't time it myself. edit: From that statistic you can count the time you'll have to spend there, the amount of runes and so on. I talked to few mates who were bursting and according to them, it's 120-150k xp per 500 bursts on mage.

I find it pretty damn funny how a person who started RS in 2005 is complaining how people are getting this too easily and don't know how it was "back then". You did not have to store items on "mules" as there were no item bank, you didn't have to uncert things when we had the banks, you didn't have to do 4-5 clicks just to swing a rock with an axe. You can currently train your melee skills up to 5 times faster than old players could,you got the precious make-x that takes away the challenge from many skills and so on. If we look at things that have made the game easier, GE doen't go even in top 25. Discussions tend to go from thing a to thing b if they are related to each other in the way the things we've been talking about are. If you want a simple thing like "yes, it has babied us" or "no, it hasn't", make a questionaire.

I picked up every single charm, even gold, until level 99. After that I stopped picking up gold but have picked up every other charm if I just can. Getting charms is the hardest part in summoning (oh rly?) and I don't see any reason why I'd leave them to the ground. Slowly picking them up for people with under 99 sum is a bit like putting money to the bank. Without even noticing you're preparing to master a skill that would otherwise take quite a while or cost a lot. You don't have to use them if you don't have the money currently, but having some thousands banked before really starting the skill itself ain't that bad thing. It takes almost no efford, it costs you next to nothing and it definately will help you when/if you decide to train summoning. For people with 99 sum, picking them up is a bit like overtraining it. I personally have gotten over 2 million extra xp (some not cashed in yet, waiting till I have enough to top 21) and what I've seen, with these xp rates (435,2 for crim for example) passive charm collecting is really fast. So, are they worth picking up? Definately yes.

At first you're defending the bailouts and then you're preacing about the capitalist economy. Sounds pretty ironic in my eyes, after all the american capitalist matra was a bit like "weak ones deserve to go to bankrupt". I also find it pretty damn hypocritical how the same people who have been privatising pretty much everything and preaching about neoliberalism are now doing bailouts. Seems to me that the trend is to support certain kind of policy as long as we don't need to follow it by ourselves.

If you feel like coming back, do it. If you don't, don't come. It's so easy and it's your own choice. If you need to find the motivation from other people, the chances are that you'll fail miserably. We can always give advise like "do this" or "don't do that" but it is you who decides to log in and play the game. If you don't feel like coming back or playing, then who are we to advise you?

Things coming late. Just makes me mad to see things coming late, even just for one single minute.

Why should the act itself not be compared to something which is probably easier for many to handle? There is not that big difference between real life and rs trade: two people trade a thing for another, in most cases money for a wanted thing. The rs trading system can be a bit more liberal than the real one, but it doesn't change the basic principals between the two people. Infact that's not a bad comparison either: you go from place A to place B and because you want to save time or efford, you choose to take a thing that does those for a small cost. Excuse me? I said "I personally" which means I (me, myself, Hohto, etc) wanted to skip one part I didn't like in order to do the thing you are saying you also like. Earlier you were stating how GE has turned the game into a grinding and at the cost of fun. When I stated that it has infact made the game funner to me as it has removed one annoying part, I was suddenly putting words into your mouth. If I compare that chapter to your first post on this topic, I'm getting the idea that there's only one way to enjoy this game and it's your way with all the dealing, trading and other things we were forced to go though before ge. You were already telling me that this game isn't fun anymore: In the other words, you're saying that seeing yourself finishing goals you've set to yourself (like this 99 herblore for example), gaining ranks or competing with other players is not fun in general. If you are trying to set us standards how to play and how to enjoy, why do you end it to "let me play like I want to" line when we're replying that the current is infact funner to us?

I could quote your whole answer to that part but anyways. I think you were the one who missed the point. The point was that the GE hasn't taken away any fun sections from my point of view and I assume not from many other players either. If we use the herblore as an example, lets think it this way: do/did you enjoy the dealing part or was the main interest in training the skill itself? If you enjoy more about trading itself, why on earth would you deal with herbs and pots when you could infact do trades with less loss and thus have the possibility to do even more trades? Did the trading part make it any better? On my journey to my buyable 99s it was more like a pain than a fun part of the journey like you put it. When your only interaction with the other players is to do a deal and that's it, it isn't much more faceless than the GE. The world 2 example is a great way to measure it: you trade with a person who autotypes or writes with his fingers in flames, put up the coins or the items, make sure he doesn't try to scam you and then accept. In my eyes skipping that part doesn't make the skill any more boring, antisocial (weird choice of word for RS) or less enjoyable. Infact it makes it safer, faster and gives you more time to concentrate on things you actually do like. I prefer talking to people and doing things with them isntead of just trying to fill mine and their needs or wills. If we compare it to real life, think it this way: when you go to a supermarket, do you go there to socialize with the person working behind the counter or to just to get you the things you want or need? Does the person stand behind the counter because he/she/it wants to talk to you? Most likely not, in most cases the motivation is to earn money. Does that mean we both would be both would be antisocial? Not necessary, that just isn't a place for social contacts in most cases. Every time I lurk at the forums and spam at the game, it's away from the time I could concentrate on things to do with people, like for example this overrated thing called talking. You mentioned cooking as one example. At least I personally enjoyed talking in irc and at the rogue place more than typing "buying raw lobsters x gp per", "selling cooked lobsters x gp per" or looking forums for good trades.

Exactly. I personally don't see any fun in running around for 5-10 minutes just to get an item I need in one single thing in a quest. Infact I even less enjoy standing in crowded areas shouting stuff like "Buying X" and same time reading forums for few hours every day. The saved time and efford in certain "mandatory must" tasks can actually be used to please yourself. I've personally used that word for years now. It really isn't CV material, but it gives the right information: some time has really been spent on this game. I also don't get it how saved time and efford would relate to the words we choose to use when we talk about this game in general. I personally see GE as a way to skip parts in skilling that are a must to do in order to start working on the skill. I personally did not enjoy trading with people or hunting for deals. Does it make me a worse skiller or a player if I wanted to use my time on the thing itself and avoid stuff I did not enjoy? If we look at the skills I "bought" to 99 before ge, we have farming, prayer, fletching, cooking, theoretically smithing (stopped at 98 to wait GE), basically magic and I had dealt a lot in other skills too. I personally do not agree with the talking to people at w2 part. In my eyes that was just as faceless as GE but with the fact that I was being annoyed with stupid questions, scam attempts and autowriters. People in there were just to trade and that's it. I personally rather made friends at places like IRC or training spots. I also don't completely agree with your bottom line. I personally saw trading as a part that was just a "mandatory must" on that journey, not actually part of it. If we compare it to work life, I could compare it to writing CV: not always so fun but something you just have to do if you just have to do in order to work on a thing you like.

Here's my few cents. First of all, it saves time on pretty much "secondary things". For certain players time is worth more than almost anything else. Same goes for the efford. In many quests there are certain item requirements that are relatively cheap (=useless) but gathering them takes time. Due the cheapness and useless nature, those items were being dropped before GE. Now with GE certain items can be reused by others and thus GE stands imo a collective way to split certain items. This means that after using the item, people can just dump it back to GE and help other people who also want to save time, efford and nerves. If we look this as a part of bigger section, then I gotta agree even less. Skilling has become a lot easier due GE as you can buy items faster and dump final productions easier. I personally didn't find it really attractive to waste tens of hours buying seeds at forums or banks when I was heading to 99 farm. Yes, it was more challening but also more irritating. With GE the current farmers don't have that problem anymore and imo that's a great thing: it has shortened the training time of certain skills a lot. If this makes us spoiled little grand exchange babies, then that shall be the case. RS has become so much easier by the years that helping us that way with GE is imo nothing. If melee training can be 4-5 times faster than it was in RSC, we got stuff as make X, autocast attacking spells, run and many others, having a way to decrease the things listed on the first chapter is in my eyes nothing.

Here's my article about it which I posted to Zezima's forums some time ago. Enjoy.

War time economy helps certain industrial areas and gives a great opportunity for many public sector cuts. During certain times the private investions may temporary boost the economy, but a war without a clear victory costs more than it gives in a long ruun. As a whole it however is not benefical unless you end up into the same kind of situation as USA after WW2: basically their homesoil was saved while pretty much the whole Europe was being "repaired". If we go for the US helping Europe, it works two ways with Marshall aid for example: the aid helped the countries that could take it but it tied the countries to USA both politically and economically. Organizations such as OECD (former OEED) were there for a reason and so were many other things such as toll tariff changes, subventional (is that a proper word for this context?) trades and making sure that the communists wouldn't get into power at France or Italy where they had quite a lot power. It wasn't only humantiarian aid, it was also a way to ensure the american political and economical power in the post war Europe.

Might be morally wrong, but that's it imo. I checked through the rules and at least I don't see (might also be lack of coffee) which rule would it break. Basically people aren't being misled in the same fashion as it was before GE, people are just now affecting to the supply and demand with their own money and materials. In the other words people are doing collective investments in order to benefit from the property they already have. Playing with the markets like that might be immoral from some point of view, but basically it's nothing more than faster version of the main reason why people bought rares before GE: hoping the investment would get a nice interest. People who can read the paragraphs and know the basic principals of the price structure can quite easily to predict the behaviour on certain items. Personally I've figured out that 5-30m worth items are the best as they are quite easy to "read" with small risk. Note that this "method" ( reading public information from the GE database and then predicting the price on formulas based on civilized belief) does not involve being part of the "inner circle". Only thing you're doing is that you're playing with the markets that the others are trying to manipulate.