Will H

Now what's that supposed to mean? Lots of the people who voted would play the game anyway, given that they know their password, and not all of them will get a subscription because of the update.

#1. Good idea. #2. As Sy_Accursed said, this isn't really possible in the way you've suggested it because untradables can't be noted in the normal way. Maybe you can exchange bones with someone near the Dorgesh-Kaan bank into stackable 'note' versions, or maybe some kind of token to avoid confusion. Similarly someone can be at Zanaris bank for Suqah teeth. #3. Great idea, although storylines merge and split a few times. Maybe a map of the 'tree' of quests could be made. #4. Sounds good, but it would be really nice to put one of these in your house. It would fit really well in an 'Armoury' room. #5. Good idea.

I completely oppose the death penalty. As a matter of principle, I believe that nobody should take the life of another if no lives can be directly saved in doing so. If we're really trying to stop people from killing or otherwise harming others, what does the death penalty make us?

I think that they want to do it in a whole package rather than piece by piece. This is going to be like any other large content update where they have to develop it, generate graphics for it, blue box it, and QA it. Based on other content development, it could take upwards of 2-3 months before we see it in-game. The Volcano, Clan wars arena, and other mini-games/quests take up about 20% of the entire wilderness. That is a lot of graphics and coding to re-do. The only way I can see them speeding that up is stopping all current projects, and not having ANY updates in February. Even then people can only do so much at once as far as programing and designing. Just don't get your hopes up for something right away. I wouldn't expect anything for a month or two after the official "confirmation". They might have already developed it knowing all along it was going to happen, and pull it out sooner. If so, it could be out right away after the vote, but I would expect on 2-3 months of development. If it's here earlier, great. 80% of this update is already archived. It's not like there were holes in the wilderness where the mini games are now. They just have to rebuff the returning areas up to the new graphics, and relocate the mini games. I personally think they should just put a portal somewhere, that would teleport you to them. That doesn't sound like 80%, that sounds like 10%. A lot of minigames, quests and other activities are in the wilderness, and they still need to be fun after everything's been moved about.

Is there anything to really discuss here? It's standard procedure. Servers need regular maintenance, software and hardware upgrades, so they need to be taken offline every so often. We're probably dealing with three worlds hosted on the same server.

Well put. Thank you. I think that the only real distinction between real and virtual goods is that you can make perfect copies of virtual goods a potentially infinite number of times, where you can't with real ones. As such, it's actually correct to think of Runescape items as real goods for so long as you can't duplicate them.

It looks nicer, and moving your cursor a further distance isn't so bad. I don't really need full blown toolkits. Having Google Chrome and a few links up on the bookmarks bar, such as tip.it, rune wiki and runescape.com, as well as the 'Runescape for Chrome' extension in the corner pretty much covers all of my bases. If I want to ask something a bit more complicated, the Help & Advice forum is always there. I can't stand wasted screen space. + you can always increase mouse dpi or something...but I don't see the point in playing hd/fullscreen, the graphics are really not that great Eh, the graphics aren't that bad if you put everything to maximum. Anti-aliasing x4 does wonders. In any case, I think that resizeable looks nicer than fixed.

I'd strongly suspect that you don't have children. If you did, you'd appreciate the heartbreak that a child endures when his items are basically stolen from him. As a parent, it's gut-wrenching to discover that some douchebag has scammed your child out of items he worked so hard to acquire. This is one of the reasons I don't want "free-trade" back. Though my children are all older and wiser now there is a large population of children playing the game who will be taken advantage of by people who consider earstwhile unconscionable acts as valid game tactics, because they can hide their truly despicable nature behind a computer screen ... So, you'd rather them learn this lesson in real life? Instead of with unimportant virtual items they'll get over with within a day at most? I don't know if you realize this, but if you get scammed IRL, the consequence are usually much worse then loosing a set of rune armor in a game. Actually, yes, I would rather they learned it in real life. That way they will realise that actions have real consequences, and they'll be less inclined to 'scam' others themselves.

When it's no longer fun. That's happened a few times already, but I'll be patient and come back whenever it becomes fun again.

It looks nicer, and moving your cursor a further distance isn't so bad. I don't really need full blown toolkits. Having Google Chrome and a few links up on the bookmarks bar, such as tip.it, rune wiki and runescape.com, as well as the 'Runescape for Chrome' extension in the corner pretty much covers all of my bases. If I want to ask something a bit more complicated, the Help & Advice forum is always there. I can't stand wasted screen space.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, who complained about free trade going back in '07 was either arrogant or ignorant, or both. They would have it so the game would collapse and be denied to everyone just so that they would have a few more months of free PKing and free trade, until the banks made good on their ultimatums. Either that, or they didn't read the articles clearly explaining that the banks had made ultimatums to Jagex that they had to deal with the problem in a more general way, or they'd withdraw their membership service. If you complained about it in the first place and still think you're right, rethink your position. It doesn't hold water. I can't get any clearer than that.

I like it. I've got an idea: We keep the 'combat level', the same as it is right now. It's a base measure of how developed your character alone is in combat, ignoring all outside influences. What you suggest, can be 'combat ability'. That's a measure of how good your character is at dealing out damage and defeating opponents when you factor in boosts, equipment and familiars that you have on you, and you can have up to three 'ability' ratings at the same time depending on if you have a melee weapon, ranged weapon, or combat runes. The Wilderness can then be based on that.

The odd misspelling or common grammar mistake is okay, but there's a line to be drawn when it becomes illegible. I think pictures are some of the most obviously recycled things, I've seen that generic king picture in loads of places, I think there's at least two in the Seers' Village. This smells of the dealings of a certain Ali Morrisane, no?

TS_Stormrage, I expected better from you than to avoid the filter. It's there for a reason. Jagex has this really really awful habit of not apologising for a mistake, and instead they pretend that it was all part of the original plan. We know Phase 2 was not part of the original plan, otherwise the first vote would have been called Phase 1. We've only heard a full blown apology once before, and that was when Mod MMG took over as CEO. I don't lose respect for someone because they make mistakes, otherwise I'd only end up not respecting anyone, I lose respect for someone when they don't apologise when it's due. Jagex, put up your hands, say you're sorry, and move on.

Sounds like you pulled a muscle in your jaw, which is logical from your habit of chewing gum. An ice pack and avoiding chewing anything unnecessarily (no gum!) will really help, and try to eat soft foods and soup for a couple of days. Of course, see that doctor, but don't tell him about jaw arthritis, it's 99.9% likely to be completely wrong and scaremongering. I wasn't aware that you can even get arthritis at 16, your bones are still growing.

Arn't they moving reverants as well? It might actually work out then if both are moved to the same location. Yeah they are. Uh, at least I think they are. Where could they be moved to? We can't just forget they existed without completely obliterating the reason why Stealing Creation exists. Unless, they come up with a story that the Wilderness became unsafe again because the mystics plan went wrong, as it obviously was going to. I imagine a group of Saradominist wizards and/or members of the ZMI coming in and using sacred clay for their own purposes. It might give more meaning to the conflict between the two teams again, as well. Making up lore is fun, I realise now why Jagex does it so much.

Of all of the annoying things Jagex does, they're actually really good at account recovery when you don't have complete information, so long as you keep plugging at it. Also, welcome back! :D

...I don't think this thread is going to end well. This is what happens when people don't have anything more to talk about.

Spirit of Summer/Summers End - Corporeal Beast: Couldn't you move the Banker at the Wilderness volcano to a mage arena style non-Wilderness cave very near to the destroyed town? Have the spirit plane intersect with it, which is non-Wilderness. Jessica's ring could pull you into the spirit plane if you're attacked or attack someone else while in the area that the Spirit plane is parallel to, and prevent you from attacking anyone else while you're wearing it and for 20 minutes after taking it off. The people who want go to fight the Corporeal Beast can get to that non-Wilderness cave while wearing nothing, withdraw their equipment, and use the spirit plane to get into the lair. No PK risk. All Fired Up - Beacon Network - Inferno Adze: Make sure all of the beacons are accessible from non-Wilderness areas, like Trollheim. The Temple at Senntisten - Ancient Curses: I figured that having to get through a bit of high-level wilderness was an intentional challenge to this difficult quest. Clan Wars: Move it, there's no lore connected to it. If Jagex want to make it interesting, replace the whole lot with ruins and smash up the borders so PKers can fight in the ruins of the old Clan Wars arena. Have a new one constructed at the Duel Arena. Fist of Guthix: Simple, have a druid at the border of the Wilderness north of Varrock offer free teleports to the cave. Have another one in the cave offering a teleport in the other direction too. Wilderness Volcano: I'd rather it was removed. It takes up far too much room. Defender of Varrock - Armoured Zombies: I like the idea of Varrockian scouts making a tunnel from the Chaos Tunnels to the entrance of the fortress, possibly as a mini-quest. Stealing Creation: There's a bit of important lore regarding this. The biggest issue here is what will happen to the Revenants, which they're building bodies made out of sacred clay for. On the other hand, you're not actually allowed to have items in the minigame, so there's not much of an issue here. Chaos Tunnels - Bork: Have one of those crazy chaos portals that *normally* sends the player near Bork's lair placed the tunnel underneath that statue of Saradomin after you've killed him once. Seal up the openings in the Wilderness. If Jagex wants to go further, scatter some chaos portals to the points where the rifts would access the Tunnels in the runecrafting Chaos Altar. Penguins: Penguins plus PKing sounds hilarious. It's a community effort, so a common foe would be good fun. After all, if you've got any sense, you won't bring more than three items when penguin hunting in the Wilderness. Treasure Trails: I personally think that it's fine to leave it as it is. If Jagex really want to stop the TTers from complaining, make clues protect over items valued under 5K.

@Will_Holmes, I was being over the top to be honest man, I just felt the need to reflect how ludicrous some of the challenges to free trade are, and yes I too normally abstain from arguing here.. :thumbup: Fair enough, no worries. :)

No it won't \:D/ Phase 3 - Will this update result in one big chaos ? (only no option) Phase 4 - Will this update result in one big chaos ? (only I don't care option) They have to fill the time between now and 14th january with some more phases you know ... It's called a referendum. It's the last word on the matter, as chosen by the people entitled to vote. End of story. I'd rather not get involved in dubious ethics here, but a lot of new players were scammed before the RWT updates and subsequently quit, and this game needs new players to survive. That's our real primary concern here.

Out of all my years playing through classic and RS2 I can only remember one time somebody told me to meet them somewhere near the wildy. I started playing in 2002 and was only scammed twice; both times to different guys switching items at the last seconds. In my opinion scamming is perfectly fine, and in a way needed in the game. It makes the game feel more realistic and like you are actually playing with human being. Scammers make the game more risky and merchanting more entertaining. It keeps you on yours toes when trading. I might decide to start playing the game again just for the entertainment of killing people luring traders into the wildy. Plus with the added risk of of being scammed and lured, less idiots will play the game. Free trade will hopefully weed out the kids and make the game as mature as it used to be. I've only been scammed once, but it was a "Let's go into the wilderness and fight dragons but my clan will be waiting for you" scam. I'm not talking about being worried about being scammed, I'm talking about I'd like to be able to sell something on the forums without having every [wagon] who thinks he is capable of scamming spamming me with "lol I buy meet me at Edgeville." I used to sell resources on the forums in 2006/2007, and people telling me to meet them at the Edgeville bridge constituted 80% of my response base. That's why I said that if Jagex bring this stuff back, they need to have a zero tolerance policy on attempted scamming. If you want a game where scamming is okay, go play something like Darkfall or Mortal Online where PvP is everywhere. I don't suggest playing Eve Online, because CCP has taken on a policy where if someone cancels their subscription and cites you specifically as the reason for them quitting, and they find you scammed the person, they will permanently ban you. I agree. One thing we must really make clear to Jagex and the community at large is that, although scamming will be easier to carry out with free trade, it still isn't acceptable, and every effort needs to be made to prevent it. There's plenty of possible ideas here, which weren't really put forward because restricted trade locked everything down. For example, maybe either party can reverse a trade within 2 minutes of it occurring? We do have the Wilderness Wall now, though, that should stop anyone but the extremely foolish from going in.

To be fair, scamming is going to be more difficult and rare than back before Dec '07. Firstly, trade screens now have prices of items laid out on them, so there's not much chance of new players being convinced that an item is worth significantly more or less than what it's really worth. There's the alerts when things are changed on the trade screen, and nearly everyone is going to use the (now free) GE anyway, where you can't be scammed at all. Yes, scamming will sometimes happen, but the conditions are 100x better than they were 3 years ago. Also, why can't people get it into their heads that the free trade and the old wilderness are two sides of the same coin? I'll say it again; a PK is a special unbalanced trade, where the loser trades all of his held items apart from the X highest high alchemy value items to the victor, and receives nothing in return. It's the same thing.

They'll perfect the GE. You can simply have it update as often as you like, and there'll be no limits. If the street price flies far away from the GE price, no worries, the GE will still keep track of them and quickly catch up, and won't get in the way of trades. It will be awesome. But will people keep using the GE when there is free trade? Yep. The GE is a faster and easier system of connecting compatible buyers and sellers than standing in World 1 or 2. You don't need to hop worlds, and you can do something else while you're finding a buyer or seller.

Sarcasm on a text forum isn't a good idea if you don't use tags or make it really obvious, just letting you know. Someone will take you seriously at some point. :) OP, it's not rigged. With big numbers of votes, the outcome won't change much over time.