Owned_Nex

In other news: Ghostly Robes now alch for 100k. Now, you may only have 1 set at a time. Suckers, I got 10000 sets yesterday.MMG was here OT: Magic needs to utilize the special bar better. Before SoL, the special bar did not even appear on staves. The SoL's special was a joke. It increased defense for a short period of time. Unfortunately defense does not give KO potential. Magic needs an AGS equivilant of some sort that allows a spell to deal extra damage.

I thought it was just a scam to get money. Most people who have never been members probably didn't know that Jagex withdraws money 3 days before the "membership" ends.

Also I believe they grow in ticks of 5 min.

Alright thanks

Barraging Lobs would take a lot of money. Do it if you want to get charms for your summoning. I currently superheat steel bars. The loss is very low, depending on the GE you can expect to spend 3m-6m for the needed EXP. This actually nets higher Exp/h alching if you can pay 100% attention. Essentially the whole animation can be clipped, so if you press f4 manually, you will be able to get 2 superheats off in the time it takes to do one. You could, also, just wait for it to show the magic page by itself, at which poitn the exp is still very high.

I ministered into my calculator. Thanks for the correction. Could I ask what numbers you were using to get the +19% DPS?

You have no argument, you are saying something that is simply WRONG. You are deceiving your readers, that is absolutely not something that a guide should do. You forgot about the 20% increased Strength from Salve, and the effects of Piety(Which is free, by the way). This should, at the very least push the number to +25%, if mot more. Also 100k Exp/H is not very realistic for most people, and easily sustainable. Personally, I have 99 Attack and Strength. With Piety, Salve, and relatively good gear I only manage a sustainable 80k Exp/h. I believe the extremely high numbers were with intense Dharok usage or people who were maxed using Extremes, etc. While I guess it is possible, the majority of players training melee are not at 99. From my experiences training through the 90s, I think 75k Exp/h is the most realistic number for general training Exp/h. That number is also close to what I got from PC/SW. That being said I would estimate about 85k-86k Exp/h from LRC, and 93k-94k Exp/h from AZombies(The 90k range is typically what people have reported). This means more than 3 minutes of time afking. I think this puts Azombies ahead because of the massive cluster of zombies you never need to move more than 4 squares to find one. Usually there are 1-2 people at one spot, much more than enough. Even if it has 3-4 people, a 40s hop is all it takes to get a quieter one. I have trained probably close to 10m exp total there, and I've never encountered a situation where there was extreme crowding on more than 1 world I've hopped to. On a more serious note its a bit hypocritical to dismiss theory against LRC as "bull," but embrace theory otherwise. I highly suggest you go and change out the part about it being better than Azombies. There is nothing worse than a guide on a reputable site such as tip.it which, unfortunately, blatantly lies. gg I accounted for the salve, that was the 19% increase in DPS. It does not matter that I used 100k xp as a base number, its just being used for the sake of simplicity. The same calculations could be done with 75k per hour, and you would get the same results. Pietying is redicously cheap, you need to value your time at around 400k per hour to justify it, which anyone can do, not to mention you'll still profit pietying LRC. I haven't been to AZ's recently as I prefer slayer, so I dont know how crowded it is, but without a 1k+ population world, 2 people will easily clear that room. Also, yes you can use that quote in the guide, just credit me somewhere. EDIT: I'm not saying that LRC is necessarily better then AZ's, however I am saying it is certainly an alternative that provides similar xp rates that could be prefered by some people, or during peak times. You cant figure out which is better just by calculations, you'd need extensive testing. Also, could someone with turmoil get % values for both of there defense? That'd be kind of useful to know. Praying in general will cost alot considering the time i takes and prayer potion costs. Although 400k could be neglected, it does take some amount of time to restock an inventory. Even 1 min an hour is quite a difference. Also, I did calcs for 75k exp/h and it comes out to favor zombies slightly more. One thing to consider is that 2 people will not clear the room when less than 1k people. I often train with level 120+, and even with 3 people we can't come close.

Dungeoneering newbie here. I'm just wondering how long it is expected to take for 36-70 Dung. I am a level 130, so elitism should favor me. I am familiar with basic concepts and such. I should have decent team, but not a heavily experienced/facerolling team. Anyways, just looking for a rough estimate in hours. I realize that Dung is fairly unpredictable, so any kind of number would help. Thanks

If you are confident enough, go ahead. Just remember that 180s can heal in the place of an attack, so they will not heal themselves if you trap them and employ a hit and run method.

You have no argument, you are saying something that is simply WRONG. You are deceiving your readers, that is absolutely not something that a guide should do. You forgot about the 20% increased Strength from Salve, and the effects of Piety(Which is free, by the way). This should, at the very least push the number to +25%, if mot more. Also 100k Exp/H is not very realistic for most people, and easily sustainable. Personally, I have 99 Attack and Strength. With Piety, Salve, and relatively good gear I only manage a sustainable 80k Exp/h. I believe the extremely high numbers were with intense Dharok usage or people who were maxed using Extremes, etc. While I guess it is possible, the majority of players training melee are not at 99. From my experiences training through the 90s, I think 75k Exp/h is the most realistic number for general training Exp/h. That number is also close to what I got from PC/SW. That being said I would estimate about 85k-86k Exp/h from LRC, and 93k-94k Exp/h from AZombies(The 90k range is typically what people have reported). This means more than 3 minutes of time afking. I think this puts Azombies ahead because of the massive cluster of zombies you never need to move more than 4 squares to find one. Usually there are 1-2 people at one spot, much more than enough. Even if it has 3-4 people, a 40s hop is all it takes to get a quieter one. I have trained probably close to 10m exp total there, and I've never encountered a situation where there was extreme crowding on more than 1 world I've hopped to. On a more serious note its a bit hypocritical to dismiss theory against LRC as "bull," but embrace theory otherwise. I highly suggest you go and change out the part about it being better than Azombies. There is nothing worse than a guide on a reputable site such as tip.it which, unfortunately, blatantly lies. gg

More Sarabrews for sure. If you bring two, one or two mistakes means gameover. Also, Guthans and Excaliber are not reliable enough for healing.

You do realize you have to go through the ENTIRE fight caves right? That inventory would be perfect for Jad, but theres no way you can get to Jad with it.

Or join a PvM clan

Red is better, but they cost alot more. I think EXP depends on how well you lure. Also, consider Mummies in the CT. They ar eeasier to lure and position.

^ this. I think its just not cost effective to do so.

Thats not a valid argument...Thats like saying a Dragon dagger is better than a Bronze Scimitar, so daggers are better. You can't say "Well we are going to count the loss from pots/summons for Azombies, but it doesn't matter for Living Rock Caverns". Secondly, a super set will last you a good 10 min. A single dose of a prayer potion or shark lasts...maybe 30 seconds to1 min. Also, summons are not used for Azombies at the altar spot. Testing is good, but solid theory is better. If you know all the variables, it is better to simply state the facts rather then test for 20-30 hours to ensure the data is good enough. There is absolutely no proof of any sort why they would be better, hence nothing to test. And stop posting sentences in different posts. There is a edit button for a reason. you said data is more proof than testing thats bull testing it prooves something have numbers doesnt proove anything only that you can type on your key board, also i have now been informed that these do indeed give 5.2xp per 10 damage compared to the traditional 4 xp per 10 damage wich further suports me According to (http://forum.tip.it/topic/262966-monster-experience/) only the patriarchs gives 5.2x. You cannot kill patriarchs for hours straight. For strikers and protectors, it is not significantly higher. Armoured Zombies c an easily get more than 10k exp/h more, offsetting this. The reason I say theory is sometimes better than testing is because if you have all of the variables, you can do this thing called USING YOUR BRAIN and figure things out rather then test for 20 hours and get the same results. Also, what basis do you have for LRC being better? There is nothing to test. You hit harder(Piety, Salve), more accurately(Piety, Salve), cheaper(Altar), and the profit is about the same depending on method. Why not provide some evidence. All you do is claim everything I say is "bull."

Thats not a valid argument...Thats like saying a Dragon dagger is better than a Bronze Scimitar, so daggers are better. You can't say "Well we are going to count the loss from pots/summons for Azombies, but it doesn't matter for Living Rock Caverns". Secondly, a super set will last you a good 10 min. A single dose of a prayer potion or shark lasts...maybe 30 seconds to1 min. Also, summons are not used for Azombies at the altar spot. Testing is good, but solid theory is better. If you know all the variables, it is better to simply state the facts rather then test for 20-30 hours to ensure the data is good enough. There is absolutely no proof of any sort why they would be better, hence nothing to test. And stop posting sentences in different posts. There is a edit button for a reason.

while they are weak to crush weapons i have been informed by several people that a whip is more then sufficent, also because of the more hp less people and equal if not less defence as az's u get more time fighting instead of hopping of serching for a monster because the worlds crowded i have talked to people getting anywhere from 90k to 120k xp an hour which is exactly around where az's range for xp at higher levels the extra loot is just a bonus Azombies are very crowded(the zombies themselves, not people). You won't need to ever go around finding them. I can't say the same for LRC. Even with a whip, know that Azombies still have lower defense. Also, I highly doubt you can get 120k Exp/h there. I'd like to see some proof of this. I find it hard to believe that these creatures can beat +20% accuracy and strength, Piety/Turmoil, and still make a significant profit and get the same exp.

I wouldn't. In time extra you could have made back that money boss hunting.

And for that you're right. I've talking about actual wannabe-mods though, that go around reporting as frequently as they can for even the most minor infraction instead of playing the game. These are the people that are going to have the highest number of reports. And they're the people that are least likely to actually do the job once they actually get there. Funny thing about that, if you actually want to be a mod, chances are you're in it for the status or so you can mute people that bug you. And thats the problem with the system. How can you tell if someone is a wannabe mod or someone that reports to better the community. At least we can agree that progress was made... :grin: Of course they aren't going to devote that many people to this for that long. As I said earlier though, there's no rush in this. Names are not going to pile up and overwhelm them. Again, the people who are least likely to do the job are the ones that actively seek modship. As clear as the knowledge base is, there are quite a few people who believe that we get paid and/or can be promoted to j-mods. A reason to mod people who are "too nice to mute people" is that they are too nice to mute people nice. They're the ones that people end up going to if they have problems with something. Because they stand out more than normal players, they're easier for someone to find if they need to. They're the ones that are going to tell some accidental rulebreaker that he's breaking the rules instead of reporting him for it. But how do you know who is less likely? How come I can't report people because I truly feel they are offensive? You might think its better to give everyone a warning, but that only works so well. If someone robs a bank you don't say "Ok, don't do it again." You put them in jail for a while so they WILL change. Sure, it starts off small, but this WILL prevent them from doing it again. I'd think the same way that I'm expected to prove that reports are not a factor at all when the evidence suggests that they are. I expect people who claim that you need lots of reports to be a mod to actually prove it, because my own observations have said otherwise. I based the paragraph on reports because you questioned it. If you've forgotten my original example was a player with 5 offensive language reports for the word "damn" vs. a player with one password scamming report. You made a statement, I attempted to explain my example, and it spiraled out of control from there. The 22 people number was there because I felt like I had made up enough numbers. Perhaps if the focus wasn't shifted to how practical each example would be... I made the statement about you ignoring my posts because that's what I had been noticing. You continually expected me to prove that reports were not a factor at all after I had said that I wasn't arguing about that. All of the statement I make about the selection process are things I've pieced together myself. They have not come out and said "this is how we pick mods", if they did people would still say that they're lying to get people to be nicer. Which puts me in an interesting position, because I always end up having to defend a position that has just been made undefendable by people saying "no they really mean this", much like you did. Can't we use our brains? No, Jagex never said "You need alot of reports to become a mod." But THINK about what I have said. How do Jagex find their player mods. There is no way you can look for nice people first. Sure, you can eliminate a few hundred thousand accounts who have been hacked or broke the rules. But that STILL leaves hundreds of thousands if not millions of accounts left. Where do we go from there? Is it not random after that? I'm not making this undefendable. It just isn't. I havn't changed what I've said from the beginning. You simply have ignored me. I'm still here, actually. I don't leave things unfinished. At least not things like this :lol: Not sure if you will be, though. Again, I act this way in debates because every other debate about this has had players who spout the same [cabbage] and acting offended when I call it that. I just put that there to provoke you. Sorry, but slayer gets boring. Likewise, most players I've met in these debates have been like you. Nobody in these debates ever proves all of these stereotypes that they call fact. I always take this side because in the almost five years I've been a mod I've never seen anything close to the stereotype. It's always people who outright don't know mods that end up making these statements, the last of which admitted that he hadn't so much as seen any in years. It's always "all mods are bad blahblahblah... Except the ones I know". At least this time I didn't have to defend my personality and reputation as much. The posts are much shorter too, so progress was made :lol: True I can't prove these things. But maybe we can use our brains for a while.

Lol, if Jagex won't change the high alch value or something, they won't shut down a CC

Yes I agree,we gotta go hate all those PC clans, all those SW clans, we must riot against skill world, everybody higher lvl'd then we are are just bots and no lifers.

Yes, it would be. I haven't been denying that. I've been saying that there are other things that they look at. I think I've said that at least twice now... Probably time to put away the strawman and look at what I've actually been saying... So you go on about how Pass Scamming is more legitimate than Offensive Language and then suddenly I'm not reading what you are saying after proving while its not? I'm not saying reporting offensive language is yet another factor. I'm saying someone who reports for it isn't always just a wannabe mod. So after all this all we've done is reaffirm that you've thought that from the beginning... Progress! And after a few restatements of this you STILL do not understand what I am saying. Progress indeed. 22 is the number of people in the Investigation in the Community Unit. There are 23 people in the Community Management team, which, as I said, works with the mod teams and would probably have a hand in it too. The method I outlined was not a method for actually selecting mods. It was a method to eliminate people who don't fit the criteria before you look. That is hardly picking randomly from the playerbase. It isn't better to have rude, mean, and obnoxious people that do their jobs, because those are precisely the kinds of people that won't do their jobs well. The last thing you want is the stereotypical [wagon] pure to have mute powers just because he reports a lot. And that's exactly why they don't base the whole system on reports. It's clear to me that you have no idea how the system works. You're making up something that supports all of the nonsense you've been hearing and calling it fact. I doubt you're really interested in debating this because you are barely even arguing against what I've actually been posting. Go out and talk to some mods before you make broad statements about them. You may learn something. 22-23 people total. Thats the total number which could be part of this. Do you think Jagex devoted ~5% of their employees to this 10 hours a day? No. They can't. While your method does cut a chunk out of the playerbase. You leave upwards of a million accounts. I would say picking out people from that is random. Although it does not sound good, it is better to have people that actually do their job. Why Mod someone who would never use the report button or is too nice to mute people? Whats the point? Clear to you I don't know how the system work. Don't give me this crap. Whats your argument? Are you just going to flat out deny everything I say? How the hell can you argue that someone does not need a significant amount of reports? Yes, you drone on and on about how it isn't the only factor. I GIVE YOU THAT YOU WIN GG GOOD DUEL YES OK YOU WIN. Then you misquote me twice. First you say I made up or know of a magic number. Now then you base your entire argument on how password scamming>offensive language reports. After that somehow I am the one now listening to you. For the middle paragraphs nothing came out of it because you were too stubborn picking out small details and debating that. LOOK at the progression. You never answered one tough question. Instead you picked apart a sentence and defined "more" as a number. EVERY singe question for me HAS been answered. If you do not feel I have answered ANYTHING at ALL quote it to me and I will do so immediately. The argument goes in circles because YOU IGNORE the BULK of my argument and pick apart tiny tiny details. Why do we even need this 22 people number? You manage to base this entire paragraph on the 1-2 number I gave as an example. So sad. You are a prime example of the "Stereotypical" mod. Even you are not clear on your facts. Kindness and helpfulness? Flame an entire debate and then leave after you have nothing left to say. I guess this is partly my fault too. I should never had even started this crap. Every single Mod with a few exceptions I have met are like you. Waste of my time trying to change something like this.

Yes. Most people plan to use charms on a bonus XP weekend. Anyways, stick to the 9 Lob. Crash noobs(see if you can outcast them, and mess up their lures.

If you want the best EXP, hop worlds until you find one with 1-2 people at the Altar spot. Use A Nezzy, Salve, BCP, Tassets, Dragon Boots, WArrior/Zerker Ring, Whip, Defender, and a Fire Cape. You want to maximize strength bonus. Prayer bonus is usless because it is more efficient to take a 3s Altar trip then have reduced EXP for 20-30s. Void does not stack with Salve, so don't use it.