qeltar

Who would be forced to quit? and why would they be forced to quit? If anyone quits over this, they make a choice to leave, it's not a forced action. Yep. As I clearly said in my previous post, I don't believe they should just take them out. They should provide compensation of some sort. Some people will still quit, though, because they have too much of themselves tied up in these items. Unfortunate, but that's one of the reasons why they need to go.

My guess is that Jagex will continue for a while to deny the important role that rares play in the corruption problems with this game. After all, they've stuck their heads in the sand this long, so what's another year or two? If they DO want to show that they are serious about cleaning up the game, though, they'll do something about the problem. I don't believe that they should do anything arbitrary to rip off people who already own them, but the items need to be taken out of the markets one way or the other. If a few people quit as a result of this, it's not a big deal. Far better to fix one of the biggest corrupting influences in the game than let the situation continue indefinitely.

First, thanks for all the replies, and for keeping the discussion mostly civil in my absence. It's a holiday weekend here in the US and I was traveling most of the day (busiest travel day of the whole year stateside.) Many of the ideas that I mentioned in this article were bouncing around my head last night and this morning, and I felt I needed to get them "down on paper" while they were still fresh. The article was written in about 90 minutes, so no, it's not perfect. In particular, I recognize that I used some potentially inflammatory analogies, and I also realize that some people are incapable of seeing an analogy in proper context, and assume that the author is trying to say that the two compared situations are the same or similar. That is clearly NOT what I was trying to do; as one poster here rightly pointed out, the parallels simply relate to the matter of overreaction, and how trying hard to stop a group from destroying something can lead to destroying it oneself. I do not believe that it weakens the argument for those who understand logical analogy, and that was my target audience. I'll respond to Makoto separately. Thanks to all who replied, I do appreciate it, just can't reply to everyone.

I saw that before I wrote my article. It doesn't contradict what he said in my screenshot. There is no evidence here that they deliberately did this to take out stakers because they make too much money. It's POSSIBLE but there's no proof. Just because you WANT that to have been the reason doesn't make it so. As long as Jagex does these things and claims it is because of RWT, then their RWT approach is suspect and that's the subject of the article.

What you seem to be forgetting is that Jagex has specifically said that dealing with this imbalance issue is not why they made this change. I mentioned this in the article. Did you even read it? Then that would definitely suggest that you didn't read it. If they told the real reason they'd just have more whiners on their hands than currently. You're the one questioning Jagex, so how plausible is it that they might just have said what they said to calm down 13 yr olds who see staking as their life on RS. Yes, they COULD be lying, but that's not the point. They claim this was done because of RWT, and that approach is the topic here. These sorts of childish comments add nothing to the discussion. I already said clearly that I said there might be other reasons.

The STAKING update was needed... It was extremely overpowered MONEY FOR NEWBIES and was not even meant to replace normal MERCHANTING or MONEYMAKING. Hope you like my revised version of your quote. Again, Jagex said this is NOT why they did it. You are off topic.

What you seem to be forgetting is that Jagex has specifically said that dealing with this imbalance issue is not why they made this change. I mentioned this in the article. Did you even read it? Then that would definitely suggest that you didn't read it.

I hope they throw it in the bin. History proves that listening to players and their complaints merely screws it up more. This post actually does more negative effect in the long run. Do you think you could possibly explain *why* you write off the whole article as being "more negative effect in the long run"? I thought it was obvious that this post is like all the others.. An attempt to undermine Jagex' authority, decisions and pretty much their image as a good company. For gods sake the post even mentions WTC 9/11. So it seems you *cannot* come with any good counter-arguments, you just think my article is bad and that's that. Okay. :)

That's where you're mistaken. Jagex can create rares with the snap of a finger. Their current rarity is artificially induced. That can change. And if they are serious about getting the money corruption out of the game, it must. There are many MORE who have resorted to unsavory actions in the pursuit of rares, because rares cost more than getting high skills, with very few exceptions. Trying to "get a phat" is a leading cause of the scamming, cheating and RWT problems of Runescape.

I hope they throw it in the bin. History proves that listening to players and their complaints merely screws it up more. This post actually does more negative effect in the long run. Do you think you could possibly explain *why* you write off the whole article as being "more negative effect in the long run"?

They have no use in terms of the game itself. They only have value because of artificial induced rarity. Nonsense. There are thousands of people who have rares due to getting gifts from friends, drop-trading, scamming, hacking and real-world trading. The fact that they are tradeable is exactly why they say nothing about the longevity of their owners. Even without cheating at all, I could start a new character today and own a Burger King hat within a month. My point was simply that most players, consciously or unconsciously, think they look "cool" not because they really are, but simply because they are valuable. That's the reason why most people wear Burger King hats around. Those are the reasons in most cases. Doesn't mean it applies to everyone, and in fact, I legitimately feel sorry for the real veterans. If Jagex had done the smart thing and made these items untradeable years ago when they launched RS2, they would be legitimate symbols of status and not a corrupted symbol that can represent status, greed or cheating.

I'm always honest about my views and have never hidden my disdain for the greed-oriented aspects of the game, including the obsession some have over silly paper hats. I do note that once again, you have resorted to personal attacks rather than addressing the topic of the thread. You didn't work hard for your $, by your own admission. You bought some junk, left for three years, and when you got back found that it was worth more. There are millions of players who work a lot harder and never get a fraction of that amount of $. Seeing some correction in the game so that those who are already wealthy cannot watch their wealth endlessly spiral upwards to never-ending heights is a good thing. Yes, well, that will continue only so long as Jagex wants it to continue. If they are really serious about cleaning up this game, the problem of rares MUST be addressed. Only time will tell if they truly are serious or not. In the Netherlands in 1636, tulips were the best investment in the world. We all know how that turned out (for those who don't). I'm sure people are capable of deciding for themselves what to believe, bearing in mind that you have a large financial interest in propping up the rares market. I have no financial interest either way.

(Originally published on TruthScape and copied here for the benefit of the Tip.It community and to spur discussion.) The TruthScape Soapbox - Issue #2 - Curing the Disease by Killing the Patient Published: November 21, 2007 With yesterdayÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s restrictions involving single player dueling, Jagex has confirmed its recent emphasis on getting tough on real world trading (RWT). This sounds good on paper, but the implementation has turned out to be rather unsavory. The debacle that has resulted from the companyÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s ham-fisted efforts show that it is set on continuing down a path that will do more harm than good to its customers. This essay is not about the duel arena changes specifically, but more generally about how those changes represent a much larger problem at Jagex. The company appears to be determined to repeat every mistake made by every reactionary authority in history. As I will show, the predictable end result of misguided and ineffective efforts to stop crime is simply more harm and inconvenience to innocents, with little effect on the intended targets. The Road to Hell, but Paved with What? First, a quick recap for those of you who have been under a rock for the last 24 hours. (Or those who have a real life, unlike me.) :) On November 20, 2007, Jagex made significant changes to the duel arena feature. One change was adding a new multi-player tournament option, an update that had been anticipated; what was not anticipated was an overhaul to the existing single player duel arena, the most important aspect of which is a limit on stakes of 3k per player over any 15 minute period. Yes, you heard that right: you can now stake no more than 12k of gold or itemsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã

Being a "symbol of wealth" doesn't change the fact that Burger King hats are useless -- i.e., have no use. And they don't. They are not a sign of long term play, for reasons known to everyone. Ah, but see, here's the rub. This "storing GP" thing is at the heart of the matter. If you buy something useless that's worth millions because you want to use it as an "investment" then you should be prepared that sometimes investments lose value. They "look awesome"? :lol: They are silly little paper hats, like the ones you get from Burger King. They are only "adored" by people because of the cult following that has built up over their rarity. If they weren't discontinued, people would laugh at anyone who wore one. Yes, because of a combination of brainwashing, a need to show off, and a desire to "keep up with the Joneses". It's all groupthink phenomena. This happens with useful game items all the time. Seen the price of a d square lately? I fail to see your point.

Most of that is childish spam. There are legitimate points to complain about but the size of that thread has no relevance. People come out of the woodwork to rant and rave no matter what changes, whether it's fair or not.

Seems like phat prices are more affected than any other rares out there then? Sure, because they are the most over-inflated of the useless items in the market. Thus, they are the ones most at risk of "correction".

The assumption that because rares have always gone up in the past that they will continue to do so in the future is based on faulty reasoning. Don't buy into the "players set the prices" myth -- Jagex entirely controls what happens with the prices of every item in this game through its rules and policies. If they decide that they want to make structural changes that impact the wheeler/dealers of RuneScape, this could easily have a permanent dampening effect on items like Burger King hats. And it appears that they are doing exactly that.

they do sometimes, when they released the infinite stock in stores, people complained about the battle staffs and paul posted how he was going to change the stocks for these to supply a certain amount per day, he also talked about how some shops would sell seaweed once a day. You're right, sorry. Still think this is bogus though.

Considering it is 4 am in the UK, and the sarcastic nature of the "update", I bet that is fake. :P Besides, they don't announce changes before doing them.

Thought of this the minute I saw this update. Good thinking. The irony is that this technique is already used. Do you know by whom? Cheaters who want to broker accounts and mils. Sad, isn't it?

They can pay whatever they want. And they should expect that they can lose money as well as gaining it.

You apparently haven't been paying attention, because I have been complaining all day about the 3k limit, *even though* it doesn't affect me at all personally. But the prices of rares going down doesn't "disturb" anyone's gameplay. I think it's a good thing when ridiculous situations are corrected, and the prices of rares definitely qualifies.

Excellent news! Thanks for the update. :)

[hide] Yes. They have. There are far more trades each day and they claim to be able to track those. Maybe they are lying? Yet nobody at Jagex could figure out that a reasonable limit would suffice, without going to the ridiculous extreme of 12k per hour? Not as they are currently implemented. Have you tried them? They might be fun when the bugs are out but they're completely different from regular staking. [/hide] Tons of places and constantly. Here is just one example. It's not difficult to do. Killing staking to get rid of RWT makes as much sense as killing trading to get rid of RWT. If true (they deny it) then that goes back to my prior complaint about them not being honest about their goals here. You didn't get *my* point. The tournaments are completely different from staking even without the bug issue. They can fix the bugs, and the tournament will have merit as an additional feature but it is far too different from staking to appeal to those who enjoy that.