Madmanpur3

The double 53 hit means the player had 53 hp left, not 106. Dark bow special does the same if they have 0-max of weapon hp left and you kill them, it'll just show the same hit twice.

[hide=quotes] You're comparing murder to the website founder posting in the wrong forum. Like many people said before, what harm is it causing? Quite funny actually. You think it's okay to RWT but yet you don't think it's okay for the Admin of TipIt to harmlessly post in the wrong topic. Didn't you say that as long as no one is harmed then it's okay to break rules? Wow, that's so hypocritical. =D> [/hide] If you thought I was comparing murder to posting in the wrong forum then you should get a pair of reading glasses. As for the harm it's causing - posting in the wrong forum, knowing it's the wrong forum, knowing you can get away with it based on your status, and knowing that others who tried to do the same would get negative reactions...in my opinion that's quite obviously wrong. My frustration doesn't lie with Silver - I understand his intentions were and don't blame him for it -, it lies with the goons that made up a bunch of bs to try and defend him and/or tried saying it wasn't even a problem. P.S. - I'm not a real big fan of dictatorships.

You'd need 16 attack as well...reward from death plateau. I know this because it pains me that I can't go on my fun account that has 1 attack :(.

[hide=quotes] It goes here. Are you surprised that Silv can read? It goes here. Are you surprised that Silv can read? You know yourself that if anyone else except tip.it admin posted this topic here that it would be moved, you should have atleast be honest and say that tip.it owner (or founder whatever) can post wherever he wants. This is a Tip.it discussion. The forum discription clearly says "For all general RuneScape and Tip.it discussions". Is there something amazingly hard to understand about that, or am I missing something? [/hide]I do not believe that tip.it users having a discussion makes it a tip.it related discussion and fending off bats in real life has nothing to do with tip.it nor runescape - so please stop trying to sound all high and mighty. I don't know if you're sucking up or just blinding your judgement to defend a friend, but either way it's pretty annoying. [hide=quote] Im pretty sure if your the admin you can post wherever the hell you want? [/hide]That seems to be the common attitude, and I find that disappointing. There are people all over the world that could get away with murder because of their rank in society or position of power they hold, but that doesn't mean it's ok for them to do that - it means they have the ability to do it. Just because one is in the position where they can abuse their powers doesn't mean they should, and fortunately for us Silverion has integrity and had his discussion moved to the proper forum once it was pointed out.

Isn't this *Runescape* General discussion....not just general general discussion? ie - this doesn't belong here?

Would someone care to explain how doing any of the above for the sake of venting their frustration is beneficial and/or productive? (of you who are saying it is) Sure some changes have been made that have sprung from the rants forum, but that doesn't mean they were rants...they just had nowhere else to put it. With the new forum there will be more constructive criticism and less rants, which is in fact better for them at JaGex and better for the community as a whole. Oh, and Danqazmlp - the compliments forum does serve a purpose, it helps JaGex understand what sort of content the players like and would like to see more of, or if their risks paid off, stuff like that. Without the compliments forum they would not be able to distinguish between the content that people are satisfied with and the content people really like, and there is a big difference between the two.

And in my opinion money requires skill(s)... It's his legendary GW skill that got him the money, so surely thats a higher rate?... Anyway, 10/10... Cant get much better than that. He gave his rate and a reason for that rate...just leave it alone and if the Sdn wants to question a response on his thread, let him be the one to question it seeing as it's directed at him (even though there isn't really anything to question as people are free to hold opinions). Anyways nice job with 96 summoning and 138 combat and try not to wear the fat yak...i mean pack yak out too much.

Sorry, I disagree with all of this. I never thought anything positive about people with party hats, and I will continue to think that way because I couldn't give two [cabbage] about who is wearing one. I will agree the constant asking to borrow stuff is highly annoying and has gotten me to the point of wishing it was never implemented. I hope for the sake of all of our sanity, like quick chat, all of the constant talk about it will go away after a few days... I guarantee you'd feel differently if it were skillcapes being lent out - which is essentially the same thing...at least I know I wouldn't want to see any random player walking around with a slayer cape.

There was already a glitch involving god swords. Guy made about 800m+ before it was fixed. It involved taking the sword apart. You kept the hilt. I'm 99.9% sure this is a rumor that's full of garbage.

That just means you aren't opening your friend's list to new people....not that people have stopped playing the game.

It is a non-combat skill that requires combat to train. Say we have 2 maxed combat characters and one is 99 slayer and the other is 1...the player with 99 slayer has no combat advantage over the player with 1 slayer if they were to fight each other or a non-slayer monster.

When players first start they usually don't take the time on selecting a name that they know they'll enjoy the entire time they play, instead they are more anxious to start playing the actual game - which is a reason for some of the lame (in my opinion) names. As players get more involved into the game and/or see other players with 'cool' names, they may decide they want a character with an awesome name for themselves - this is where a lot of strange names come from and these reflect the individuals creativity, vast knowledge, culture, etc...or lack there of. Then we have our 'funny' names that players choose so they can think they are cool on an mmo - most of these are annoying but once in a while I'll see one that I like. Finally, skill oriented names (minigames included) became very popular in the recent years and were overpopulated in the final days of the wilderness. Personally I wish I could change my name...it was one I chose back in the days of classic pking. *thinks about playing on Hellmooch again...realizes Hellmooch has no money and only a few stats up...stops thinking about it*

I am not saying that botting and real world trading are not linked, I am saying they are not linked to the point where you can't have one without the other...which is why I still feel that real world trading was not a bad thing. This is what I said on another thread but pertains to this as well: I hold nothing against real world traders and I hold nothing against JaGex for how they went about fixing their problems.

If you asked me "would you rather have real world trading, or a 30k trade limit?" I would have to say real world trading, and it would also be my opinion that anyone who would rather have the 30k trade limit is ignorant and/or oblivious to logic in general. About the whole graphics update...I will say it's a good thing overall because it's a nice change in environment and the fullscreen option is welcomed, but at the same time I feel - from a player's perspective - that it was a complete waste of resources for them - but they probably focus more on the company's perspective. "More people play now than before the removal of wilderness and staking etc" does not mean that the game is better now than it was before. The wilderness and staking both were huge aspects of the game and the game would be FAR better off with them than it is without because they were great fun for some while being optional for those who didn't want to take part. It would be much like if they removed castle wars. What it all boils down to tho is botting and macroing, the real problems. Real world trading was never a problem in the game or for the game, it was only a partial (majority probably) source to the problem but not the actual problem. But as they say, the most efficient way to take care of a problem is to take out its source, so they did just that. Limiting how we can transfer wealth via limiting trade and removing other sources of transferring (wild, staking, dropping) they took care of the problem in a way that they knew would work 95%+ efficiently. They could've spent more time coming up with a possible better solution that would've left more players happy/satisfied with them, but they would've been less certain on it's effectiveness until they were able to monitor it for a while...so between those two options, they took the safer one which was quicker and then decided to then focus more on how they could go about 'rebuilding' the game.

In full screen you don't really need the shadow to click on.

~Giving a child a knife is reasonable because it in itself doesn't harm anyone in any way. ~A child hurting other children with a knife is not reasonable because it causes harm to the victim. The world would be a very strange place if everyone ignored the transitive property. Giving a weapon to a child doesn't harm anyone in any way, but that's not a very similar example to real world trading because with real world trading, after a player purchases 1 million gp they can't really go and kill someone with that 1 million gp...no harm can ever be caused to any aspect of the game or it's players by any form of real world trading - they have no more potential to cause harm as well. With your example, harm can be caused in many aspects of giving a weapon to a child. Also, one could argue that giving a weapon to a child could cause emotional/mental damage because that kid will grow up with the understanding that weapons are ok to play with and will be very confused the day cops are arresting him because he brought an AK-47 to the airport. It's not like when someone real world trades they are giving the other player a macroing program along with it. I am not a fan of the whole 'devaluing achievements' argument mainly because that cannot be measured in any way other than opinion. As for advantages, I'd say that the person playing 10 hours a day has an immediate advantage over the person playing 10 hours a week.

People say "money is the root of all evil" which imo is more true than RWTing being the root of all evil in rs, yet money remains in the world today because if a problem arises with money as a reason for that problem...we take care of the problem, not remove all money so there's no motive for that problem to occur. If jagex would've focused as much on taking care of bots as they did getting rid of RWTing then I guarantee a lot more players would be happier with them, the game, and more players would be playing the game. Bloodkay, I know what you're trying to say but I'm not so sure you understand what I'm trying to point out. I'm saying: ~ Real world trading is reasonable because it in itself doesn't affect any gameplay or any players within the game, nor does it harm JaGex as a company in any way. ~ Credit card fraud is not reasonable because it harms JaGex as a company. ~ Botting/macroing is not reasonable because it affects the gameplay in a very negative way for most players. K, that's what I'm saying and yet it sounds like most everyone is disagreeing with me and I am still unsure why because nobody's pointed out (or even tried) why real world trading is bad.

The title of this thread is "Real World Trading: Reasonable or not?" (which in my opinion it is)... *not* "Botting/Macroing: Reasonable or not?" (if that were the title I would've said no it's not)... if A = B then it must remain that B = A so you cannot say that "RWT doesn't equal botting but botting does equal RWTing." Botting and macroing affected the game in a TOTALLY different way than real world trading did and on top of that JaGex even made separate rules in regards to each.

Here's a good reason - it's against the Terms and Conditions of the Jagex site. The countless hours you've spent playing the game, getting all of this stuff mean absolutely nothing when it doesn't belong to you in the first place. Want more? Here's a laundry list. * It makes legitimate, long time players extremely upset, which causes a mass exodus * It makes it pointless to level skills except to wear cool stuff * It makes the game a whole lot less fun * If you're still playing, it makes the game a nightmare when you're trying to harvest goods [read] * It *may* give Jagex profits for the first three months, but after that, you're looking at a ghost town of a game * It makes legitimate, long time players extremely upset, only if they look at it as devaluing their achievements...but honestly if you can't even tell who's real world traded and not, it obviously does not affect the gameplay for you does it? * Not sure how other people real world trading makes it pointless for you to level up your skills. * It does not affect the game in any way as I've stated multiple times. * I do not group botting/macroing with real world trading because they are 2 completely different things which should be dealt with separately. Oh and if you feel so strongly about the terms and conditions on the site...it also says JaGex can ban any account for any reason whatsoever. First line: By your logic, as long as someone of a certain ethnicity or someone of a certain wealth bracket is not in the room when I "insult" them, then there's no harm done. What a load o'bull. Generally, if you'd feel ashamed to say the exact same thing to a respected authority (i.e. grandparents), then it's offensive. Second line: What bug is not harmful to the game? As a programmer, any bug, no matter how minor or benign it may seem from the end-user stand point, is always going to be perceived as "harmful". Doesn't matter if it means an extra Dragon Chainbody drop from the KQ or the Falador incident, or even something that's seriously benign as the lean-over-and-hover-glitch, it's still harmful, full stop. Ok, I see what you're saying and so I'll apologize for being so loose in what I said. If you're all by yourself in your POH and say something you cannot harm anyone with whatever you say because unless your butler has the power to convey it to the other players, nobody else will ever see what you typed. Likewise, let's say my friend and I have a crude sense of humor and I pm him a joke - the only 2 people seeing it are not offended, so nobody is harmed. I guess I shouldn't have said "it cannot be considered offensive" but rather "it cannot be considered harmful". If you honestly think the music counter being off by 1 is harmful to the game, then I feel sorry for you. The bug that allowed players to wear bedsheets outside of Port Phasmatys, how did that harm the game? It just gave a small boost of excitement and something different to the game while it was able to be used if anything. There ARE some bugs out there where players simply don't care if they're in the game or not, those are the ones that aren't harmful to the game. It's like being in a room full of scorpions and mosquitoes carrying a deadly disease, and then you have a few ants...those ants are not harmful to you. You contradict yourself in such a painful way. Again, by your logic, someone that breaks the rules of society, in turn, does not really harm society, and we should not hate them for their [non]-disruptive actions? Just sit back and think about that one for a few hours. Uh, no I do not contradict myself in such a painful way. If you go 36 mph in a 35 mph zone with nobody around, you're not harming society in any way, yet it's against the law. I'm not saying it's ok to go 36 mph in a 35 mph zone, but if somebody does I will not think any less of them because they did no harm to anyone. Real world trading did not harm the game nor it's players, however, it's not liked by the ones making the rules because they do not want to see other people profit from their game (regardless of whether or not those people profiting actually take away revenue from them...which it doesn't) and they do not want to encourage that type of game play which they feel isn't "in the spirit of the game". I understand why they made real world trading against the rules and I do not question them on that. What I don't understand is why anyone would bother feeling negatively about someone who did real world trade - because they did not affect the game for us in any way, in fact I can almost guarantee that most of us know somebody in-game who's real world traded and we don't even know it. Another thing I'll point out is that there are people who do have a reason to dislike real world traders, the staff of the company who made the game...and I don't think any of us here fall into that category. P.S. - Until somebody can prove that botting/macroing = real world trading, I'm going to just ignore any claims that real world trading is bad because of all the bots. P.P.S - I realize there are probably more 'gaping flaws' in what I've typed, but for me I'd rather respond than to anticipate others' views.

That is exactly the point. As fun as it may sound to have every aspect of the game at your fingertips, it isn't. We play games to play them, not to spend $20 and win. Most people play games to have fun, and for some of those people it's more fun when you have more money...Real world trading allowed those players to have fun playing the same game we do, just in a different way and in my opinion nobody should feel negatively towards them for simply wanting to have fun, especially since they didn't affect the game in any way. P.S. - I don't think JaGex selling the gold themselves would've been the best path either.

Yes botting and macroing were closely linked to real world trading, but that does not mean you can classify them together. Botting/macroing was bad for the game, real world trading was not. That's like saying if we want to put an end to all speeding, we should just eliminate time because time is the main reason people speed (well lack of time). While we're at it, let's get rid of all the money in the world since money is the reason people rob banks. JaGex saw macroing/botting as a problem, so they chose to eliminate RWT - which in my opinion was not the way to go about handling it.

The "it devalues achievements" argument does not work for the simple fact that there are numerous instances where players can claim what others do devalues their achievement all while nobody has broken a rule. If you do a quest the way it's suppose to be done, it will take considerably longer than if you just use a guide and don't pay attention to the quest - in my opinion those who 'cheat' their way through quests do not deserve the rewards, especially in a less amount of time, than those who do quests the way they should be done...devalues their achievement. A player can spend hours killing green dragons or chopping yews to save up a couple mill while his friend happens to attend a random drop party and gets lucky and leaves with ranger boots...devalues their achievement. If someone chooses to pay $3 for a million gp, just pretend they got lucky and got a d legs drop or something, because whether they really did get lucky or whether they purchased that 'luck' nothing changes with your account and you will always have the satisfaction and knowledge that you earned your items/skills/money yourself. Also, because whether or not something devalues an achievement is nothing more than opinion, it cannot be considered a reason for real world trading to be bad. There is no meter that shows your overall achievement value nor do you lose the achievement in which you have attained. So if anyone can think of a reason as to why real world trading is/was bad other than "omg it devalues my achievement" I'd be glad to hear it and willing to accept that real world trading is a bad thing. If you do not offend someone when you say something, it cannot be considered offensive. Furthermore, there are many things that can be offensive to a particular player but not in the eyes of JaGex so it is allowed. Bugs, some of them are not harmful to the game in my opinion and as long as every player is able to do the bug then it can't be considered an unfair advantage. But at the same time there are bugs where not everyone can do it (like the killing of other players in falador) and it is bugs like those that are not ok to use/abuse. I'm not saying it's ok to real world trade, I realize it's against the rules. What I am saying is that those who did/do real world trade were not really doing anything harmful to the game or to the players of it (thus we should not go around hating them).

I've given up all hope in JaGex many moons ago...and Bloodkay, you don't have to try and impress anyone by defending them so diligently (and if you truly do think they are that great I feel sorry for you).

most macros and credit card theives were rtwers.Most macros and credit card thieves being real world traders does not make real world trading bad, that still only makes the macroing and credit card stealing bad. I have yet to hear a reason as to why real world trading is/was bad. Wow, what are you smoking? RWT is bad because jagex didn't want it in the game, but it is also bad because the legititiment (haha spelling = phail) players believe it is bad. RuneScape is highly competitive. PKing was, and still is competitive. Monster hunting is competetive. MINING can be so competetive its not even funny (well i guess it is kinda funny). Why do people continue raising their skills when they can complete all the actions in it at a level thats not 99? because they want to be better, or get better. RWT to get anything devalues whatever it is your getting. You find rwt ok, but would you find paying your teacher/professor money to give you a 100% in whatever subject ok? How many people acutally read the development diaries? You are obviously using a different definition of 'competitive' than I am, as for the devaluing of achievements...how exactly is that measured? - because I could go around claiming the person in the white partyhat calling everyone a noob devalues my achievement of having a white partyhat since people will think all white partyhat owners are stuck up jerks. Honestly, the whole 'it devalues achievements' argument is completely invalid. Lastly, you're example is poor at best because in RuneScape one can obtain any level or item guaranteed provided they have enough time...so in essence real world traders are buying/selling time and since player A spends 50 hours a week on rs and player B has 5 hours a week on rs, player B buying 45 hours worth of time is simply evening the playing field. Also, if you want to pay a teacher to get a 100% in the class go right ahead, but you aren't buying the knowledge so you'd only be hurting yourself. If it were possible to buy knowledge, many people would do it. FYI, I've read every development diary.

Should a person who sits at home all day slaving away for 85 slayer so he can finally get his first whip by 'truly earning' it really be more proud of himself than a person who goes to school, is very involved in sports and the community, goes home to do some chores then only has a half hour max to play runescape so he decides to buy a whip via rwt since otherwise he'd be waiting a year...? JaGex claims they do not want to give players advantages based on their real life background...well in my opinion someone who's able to play 10 hours a day has a definite advantage over someone who's able to play a few hours a week. It's exactly the thing they said they did not want to be an issue, but instead of the rich people getting ahead easier, it's the lazy no-lifers getting ahead easier. As for your questions, I really do not remember my first mill at all nor would I feel my achievements are devalued because someone else chose to purchase theirs because the fact is no matter what other players do, my character will remain the same. In fact, JaGex has deemed it necessary to take away 3 of the things I was proud of in the game, leaving me with only one left...and I'm sure if they knew about it they'd probably try and put a stop to it because they do not like people who stray from the path, they like to be in control and it will always be that way (I'd like to point out that the things I'm proud of in RS aren't things that can be purchased via RWT). Another thing - if real world trading supposedly devalues achievements, then wouldn't the person who pays 1.5m for their whip be devaluing the achievement of the person who took it upon themself to get 85 slayer and get their own whip through a drop? RuneScape is an online game - meaning any issue, regardless of severity, in the game should not be turned into as big of a deal as a lot make it out to be...if someone wants to spend their real currency on it then as far as I'm concerned they can go right ahead. Personally I think that's dumb but if they want to do it I have no reason to object.