stonewall337

more posts k?

hi

Ya I logged in just because I found this post so illogical and, well, one that takes an asinine stance. This is like raid gear in WoW. If you don't raid, you don't NEED raid level gear. If you don't already have imbued rings, max stats, etc etc etc then the +4 strength won't help you as much. I spent what, 40+ hours at MA just for +4 strength. This is content that is designed to be tough at first, then get easier as strats and get improve. Its naturally self nerfing. I'm glad at least something in RS would be difficult finally. I mean, c'mon. Its not even out yet and you think that only 100 people will be able to beat it? (the 00.001%). Let me say this once again. There is NOTHING in RS that is hard as it is designed to be played. Corp isn't, nex isn't. Sure, if you make it harded by doing it with rune armor or fewer people you make it harder yourself. The content isn't hard. Same thing you can do in WoW. Run a 25 man raid with 20, its gona be harder. I will agree fight caves design with waves and all is flawed, however. I have no problem with that part of the QQ. However, I think the fact that you don't have a firecape, either because you havn't tried or couldn't get one (Note, I didn't get one for a while either, I hated caves found too boring for the cape to be worth it) should preclude you from being a person with any merit to their claim in the first place. Sure, you can have an opinion, but logically, its simply not worth as much. My opinion about current events isn't as valued as an analysts, its nothing personal , its simple logic.

Show them this blog. That will reassure them And weeds is a good show.

I'd never argue that just because someone has corporate lawyers/ lawyers they know what they are doing. There are NUMEROUS reasons Jagex could do this besides actually thinking they can get money out of botters by winning a law suit. My argument has never been that I either know more then Jagex, or that Jagex won't sue, etc. It has, rather, been that Jagex won't be successful suing INDIVIDUAL bot users, and actually getting money out of them. The point of discussion is to have discourse, which includes debate and argument. Throwing around the drivel you've been doing is neither on topic, nor contributory, and would, if anything, be deemed trolling. In fact, I'd say that if we ALWAYS assume Jagex/their lawyers know what they are doing, and thus their is no point talking/discussing it (your basic premise) then we should just lock any thread such as this. 1.) Scare Tactic 2.) PR/Notoriety 3.) An attempt to get the news out to players who stopped that "bots are gone" (Seriously, people outside of RS are talking/blogging about this on some scale) 4.) Try to scar e people into settling out of court (much like the RIAA does) ETC. Looking simply at the surface level is far too shallow, ESPECIALLY the lack of (winning) precedent and the cases were other corporations (Jagex in 09, blizzard last year) actually LOST.

Last debate tourny 2morrow rlly glad to be done. Losing teh weekend to debate sucks. Glad im done. Hope the weekends goes fast.

Was he really banned? And Jagex can't sue for swearing beacuse 1.) its not against U.S law 2.) It would be crazy to try and sue for that.

Experts IV: The Trolls.

That is such a dumb argument. The DMCA is not a small thing. This is a specific aspect of the DMCA, which is where the lack of precedent is a major problem. Not the DMCA as a whole.

Honestly, most J mods probably know about most of the popular fansites. You don't seem to realize that Jagex probably had half a dozen (or more) lawyers/law-firms which they probably paid $10,000+ to each of them to make sure they didn't obtain it illegally? You know what about law? And you know Jagex has lots of lawyers being paid 10000+ each from where? Stop making things up and use legal precedent, current copyright law, and current cases to prove your point. Otherwise you are just blowing wind and proving nothing. The $10,000 was made up, but honestly... I don't need to do research to know that Jagex is paying several lawyers and/or one or more law firms to help them with this case, who presumably know more about the law and put more effort into it then you do, considering it's their job and lively-hood. Thus, I find legal discussions on these forums kinda pointless. -shrugs- Sure, and I find all your fallacies pointless, as they add nothing to the topic. Jagex is using this as a scare tactic. At least I back up any opinion I have on this topic with facts and evidence, instead of pulling numbers out of thin air in an attempt to give my ludicrous claims credence.

Honestly, most J mods probably know about most of the popular fansites. You don't seem to realize that Jagex probably had half a dozen (or more) lawyers/law-firms which they probably paid $10,000+ to each of them to make sure they didn't obtain it illegally? You know what about law? And you know Jagex has lots of lawyers being paid 10000+ each from where? Stop making things up and use legal precedent, current copyright law, and current cases to prove your point. Otherwise you are just blowing wind and proving nothing.

There's always a first time. If previous experiences were the only deciding factors in life, we never would have put a man on the moon. :wink: Personally, I'm glad that Jagex is at least trying. If the game manufacturers keep trying, eventually one of them will succeed. I think you fail to understand the difference between precedent and discovery/scientific innovation. Fallacy of analogy, in your case.

Too bad both precedent and U.S copyright law is against them, as I wrote in the "Jagex is suing bots" thread. I actually am currently studying IP law...so ya. DMCA is not talking about botting, but about DRM, and access controll. Jagex would be on legally shaky grounds, considering the lack of predicent, and the PR repercusions, not to mention the burden of proof. Seems more likely they'd try and do what the RIAA does, and try to scare people into settling out of court, but I doubt they'd even take it that far. I'd be more then interested in actually seeing this go to court. As well "Jagex's injunction against Impulse Software has been thwarted because the company does not have a copyright in the US on its game that is circumvented." This from their attempted case in Sept of 2011. In addition "Jagex argued that Impulse use of its iBot breached the DMCA provisions. Again, the court was unpersuaded by Jagex's argument, because Jagex could not rely upon any registered copyright works that needed protection, or that there were any 'technological measures' in place to protect them." "The UK equivalent is the Computer Misuse Act. Jagex's argument seems to have been that, while Impulse itself did not attack the "protected computers" in question (Runescape's servers), they assisted players to attack those servers by providing the bot to them. I won't get into the detail, but the court found against Jagex on this argument as well" In addition, when bot companies have been sued by other games in the past, it wasn't simply for making bots. No, it was more complex. " In his ruling last summer, Judge Campbell ruled that Glider did not violate the DMCA with respect to the "literal elements" because Warden did not "effectively control" access to those elements: they are stored, unencrypted, on the World of Warcraft disk. But he deferred until this month's trial the question of whether Glider violated the DMCA with respect to the "non-literal elements." In Wednesday's ruling, Judge Campbell found that Warden did effectively control access to the "non-literal elements." That is, while Warden does not prevent users from accessing the individual elements of the game separately, it does effectively bar users from accessing all of the elements together while playing the game. Therefore, Judge Campbell concluded, MDY violated the DMCA when it evaded warden's checks." However, this was later overturned- The only outcome was that MDY couldn't traffic in these bots under copyright law. "The Ninth Circuit reversed a $6.5 million judgment for Blizzard against MDY Industries, saying that making bots is not copyright infringement. The bad news for MDY? The court found that they did violate DMCA Section 1201(a)(2) (PDF), which prohibits trafficking in products that circumvent technologies designed to control access to copyright-protected works." The reason for the decision against MDY to begin with was because" "So, was the use of glider by a WoW player direct copyright infringement? This question turned on whether Blizzard's End User License Agreement ("EULA") restricted such behavior, and if it did, whether that restriction operated as a condition or a covenant. Since Blizzard's EULA did include such a prohibition, the Ninth Circuit was left to decide whether this prohibition was condition or a covenant." But does RS' ToS contain similar language, strong enough to hold up in court? I don't think so, nor do I think anyone has to worry about being a "John Doe" in one of these cases. I actually do know a bit of whats going on here. Oh, lets not forget, there is NO legal precedent for suing individual bot users, only the manufacturer.

Thats where some kind of analysis would have to take place. How long can RS last in its current state? Could Jagex afford to have 2 "types" of RS running, this one and a newer one with faster leveling, etc? Except this is exactly what happened whey they went from RSC to RS2. Or have inadvertently introduced them to it simply by playing it. That's what has happened with me. My kids have always loved watching me play and now my oldest wants to get his own account and start playing. He says several of his friends already play as well. I beg to differ. The ENGINE changed, but it changed from one browser, java based game to another. The problems I'm talking about are different, the .6 second game ticks, the limits of a browser, etc. Similar, but no where near the same. Another reason: Jagex has SHITTY customer support. Its non-existant. Thats a HUGE put off for me.

While I see (and agree with) your point, I must disagree when you say "integrated accounts". Since the foundation of the game is built strictly on wealth, giving a "new" account copious amounts of wealth would unbalance the game such that only incumbents would be suited to play best. There's also a point that the playerbase is "institutionalized" and wouldn't accept change easily. If RuneScape were to fundamentally change, the community wouldn't be able to take it. Thats where some kind of analysis would have to take place. How long can RS last in its current state? Could Jagex afford to have 2 "types" of RS running, this one and a newer one with faster leveling, etc? Is it worth losing members now to regain those who retired/new players?

I'd go so far as to say RuneScape has no future. The way the game runs, the engine, the .6 second game ticks, the lack of mousekeys, the death system, the need to grind to get anywhere, the lack of non RNG based end game, the REFUSAL of Jagex to allow accounts to be integrated (share gold between characters so I wouldn't have to grind out gold at 100k/hr for a pure, etc) and the idiotic PVP system all contribute to RS being a dying game. It might not be quick, and it won't be a surprise, but you really can't advertise/build up the player base as RS is now, with the way the game currently works. I wouldn't come back.

Skilling one etc used the slippery slope logical fallacy but it was about par for the course.

Another question: will high level accounts be "worth" more on the black market because people can no longer bot as easily/safely?

I'd train slayer TBH.

That is an interesting concept. It would pretty much eliminate hybrid methods. Better idea. Change the way combat works in that you don't have one attack per spell/weapon etc.

first to duo legally. nex as it is now is impossible solo without the safespot. call it a bug/glitch whatever, he earned it. Bug/glitch=nex has no HP/doesn't hit. Safespot=/=glitch.

Have you been carrying the other pieces with you? Took me 75 minutes or less to get a set, with a few extra pieces, but I carried all the pieces I got with me.

Pick up the Ancient Mace off the floor and use it's special attack after he has activated his prayers. If you do it before it wont work and you will have to wait 5 minutes for your spec bar to refill. Sounds like shit design. Seriously, make them wait FIVE MINUTES for the spec bar to restore? Thats really lame.

Except for people who merchent/dice/chinese gold farmers/boss/skill etc and then just sell their gold to a middleman, who sells it in bulk.

Thats rather what I said, efficiency itself isn't subjective, but to what extent a person wishes to be efficient (due to fun/irl sustanability etc) is. @Noble_Mafia. Negating money would be true if all players on this thread had infinite (or at least enough) cash to always train the optimal way. But I don't think they all do, although I could be wrong. As such, it would still need to be factored in at least some circumstances.