Cacmypants

I wasn't too sure about the curses, but I'll definitely consider them now. At least once I can pay for the huge prayer levels 0.o I'm just happy I have a gilded alter.

We're obviously never going to persuade each other, so lets' just accept that dungeoneering is a hybrid of both. the common arguement against the 'dungeoneering is a minigame' argument is along the lines of 'so what'. You can't admit for a second you're being a little pedantic? I know that the reason most people complain about the minigameness is because they've been provoked by a RAGEing steam-roller. Honestly, what is the benefit in changing dungeoneering from being a skill? Theres no real problem being addressed, any current issues with dungeoneering can be fixed by minor updates. No need to revamp it completely. Not to mention the people who have/are close to obtaining the skillcape.

that's what I was thinking XD well most of the competition in chaos tunnels come from bots and they don't really fall into the DIY category, more like the 'cheating A-holes' category Lol. I have a deep hatred of bots, especially considering my DIYness comes from an excessively strict honor system. Are you a DIY? I like to take shortcuts whenever possible XP

I totally agree about MA, I went in with high hopes, expecting something like the early warcraft games or age of empires, but it's just so damn rigid, It's so slow my, commands barely keep up with my thoughts and by the time I've issued orders I'm already getting a fork jabbed up my [wagon]. it also irks me as to I need to keep wasteing money on special items that are almost necessary to win, the whole concept of allowing people to dump junk into the minigame relies on whether the minigame is worth playing...

that's what I was thinking XD well most of the competition in chaos tunnels come from bots and they don't really fall into the DIY category, more like the 'cheating A-holes' category

Nevertheless, it's pretty easy to have a clear bank, what you got in there anyway?

That's because there arn't any dungeoneering quests yet. XP Although, dungeoneering's function in the wider game are the rewards themselves, the rewards are technically the spoils of raiding dungeons (much like the rewards of hunting are animal pelts etc). Dungeoneering has an output which can be used to assist other skills, you'll find this is common amoung all non-combat skills. Whereas minigames tend to have an output of pure experience or useless decorative items (with some exceptions).

Well yeah, that's how it should be used XP

I lol'd irl. For the last time, 'lols' mean nothing. You cant just laugh at someone in the middle of a debate insisting that they are wrong and expect to win the argument. All it does it make you look like a self-righteous [wagon]. Exhibiting the need to attack others to prove a point is a blatant sign of weakness.

Well it is wasting your weeks of TOG because leveling this "Skill" has no affect on gameplay in the slightest. And your first statement doesn't make sense. I'm level 60-65 in both ranged and magic. It does have an effect on gameplay, just not a significant one. Really, since having a high dung level without tokens is useless since you need tokens to buy things and you need more tokens than the 10:1 ratio gives you in xp making levels useless since at the "level" you "unlock" stuff you don't have enough tokens to buy that item. 65. Wow. It is useless, but it is definetly a skill. A skill is nothing but a specific type of game mechanic, and dungeoneering fulfills the criteria. Huh? No skills have levels at which you unlock something and you can obtain that something and use it whenever you want, either by buying it, making it out of bought materials, or being a static influence on gameplay. Dungeoneering does none of these things and instead acts as a minigame. In minigames you achieve tokens or some other minigame specific currency. When you obtain enough tokens you buy an item you want. If you want more of that item you have to play the minigame more to build up more currency. Did I describe Dungeoneering perfectly? On Topic: This thread is pretty much closed. The OP is ranting because he/she can't afford to be an effective ancient mage. Correction: 1. Dungeoneering is a skill because it was released as a skill. An experiment to break the (rather boring tbh) player upheld definition of a skill to allow for further innovation in the future. 2. You can't declare when a thread is closed, only the OP can do that. Superiority complex? 3. The OP is not ranting about not being able to afford the usage of ancient magic (yet another belittling assumption), the rant is about being annoyed at how ancient mages have a distinct upper hand in minigames. We answered that it was best to level up and counter them with range, then you came in and started boasting that simply due to the possibility of magic easily defeating anything with the right gear/circumstance that it is automatically superior to everything else; which doesn't contribute anything to the premise of this thread at all. 1. Then we should make FOG, CW, SC, and others a skill. OK. EDIT: Just because someone says something doesn't make it so. If I call a cat a dog does that make it so? No. The same applies for Jagex. Cats and dogs are classified by certain characteristics, and that is how Dungeoneering is aswell. 2. L? When the OP doesn't post and the posts go OT so much, a thread is pretty much closed. 3. It does because if you are ranting about how ancients own you, go get ancients. Unlike melee, magic doesn't raise your combat level so leveling it has no undesirable affects. Magic is also just as good, if not better than melee ( I haven't really been able to test this) in Dungeoneering, which is a minigame. Again...? 1. RS is jagex's creation, they are the god, they can do whatever the hell they like. Your analogy holds little ground in the virtual world. The other minigames arn't skills because they arn't skills, simple as that, jagex could have made it so but they diddn't. 2. Despite the OPs inactivity, you cannot claim their thread to be closed. What are you going to do if he starts posting again? Tell him to shut up because you closed this thread already? 3. So your logic is: to beat ancients... use ancients? Quite an effective stratedgy -.= Easily outclasses ranging wouldn't you say? Though there is some logic to that advice, since raising ones magic level is key to defending against a mage. Combat magic is avoided by low-mid players because it's such an unnecessary drain on their funds. You can't tell people to get rich and use magic... 'easier said than done' comes to mind, especially since magic sucks pretty hard without the top equipment.

Well it is wasting your weeks of TOG because leveling this "Skill" has no affect on gameplay in the slightest. And your first statement doesn't make sense. I'm level 60-65 in both ranged and magic. It does have an effect on gameplay, just not a significant one. Really, since having a high dung level without tokens is useless since you need tokens to buy things and you need more tokens than the 10:1 ratio gives you in xp making levels useless since at the "level" you "unlock" stuff you don't have enough tokens to buy that item. 65. Wow. It is useless, but it is definetly a skill. A skill is nothing but a specific type of game mechanic, and dungeoneering fulfills the criteria. Huh? No skills have levels at which you unlock something and you can obtain that something and use it whenever you want, either by buying it, making it out of bought materials, or being a static influence on gameplay. Dungeoneering does none of these things and instead acts as a minigame. In minigames you achieve tokens or some other minigame specific currency. When you obtain enough tokens you buy an item you want. If you want more of that item you have to play the minigame more to build up more currency. Did I describe Dungeoneering perfectly? On Topic: This thread is pretty much closed. The OP is ranting because he/she can't afford to be an effective ancient mage. Correction: 1. Dungeoneering is a skill because it was released as a skill. An experiment to break the player upheld definition of a skill to allow for further innovation in the future. Just because it is strikingly similar to mini-games doesn't mean it isn't a skill. Look at slayer, its identical to most quests in other mmos, yet we accept it as a skill, being just an extension on combat. It too has points you can spend on related rewards. 2. You can't declare when a thread is closed, only the OP can do that. (or if its locked by a mod XP) 3. The OP is not ranting about not being able to afford the usage of ancient magic (yet another belittling assumption), the rant is about being annoyed at how ancient mages have a distinct upper hand in minigames. We answered that it was best to level up and counter them with range, then you came in and started boasting that simply due to the possibility of magic easily defeating anything with the right gear/circumstance that it is automatically superior to everything else; all you're saying is 'stop crying, you got owned because you deserved it for being a noob'. How is that constructive?

Yet my post was not intended to answer anything, just to tell you how wrong you are. Gratz on assuming things without experience! It's what people in the rants forum of the RSOF do best. #-o I don't like your only explanation thus far, it implies that personal experiences apply to every related instance. A ranger can always pull out a crystal bow when a mage decides to far-cast. Also consider whether the ranger possessed a magic level equal to the mage's, chances are that splash frequency will greatly increase, especially if the mage is wearing pieces of stronger armor to compensate range defense for which an orthadox set has zero (excluding the arcane shield, which is obviously going to turn the tide a little, yet if the mage has an arcane shield, the ranger should have a spectral shield to be classified as a fair duel). A mage has to go out of their way simply acquiring the means to defeat a ranger; even then, it is very circumstantial. Also remember that I'm not talking solely about maxed out gameplay, there's more to combat than perfectly equipped lv99s duking it out. Relevant to the OPs initial rant, range is effective against mages, this is fact, use it. CRYSTAL BOW LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everything you are saying looks like you tried to pull if off runescape wiki or runescape.com Range defense on a mage should never be even close to zero, and I have over 140 range defense on 109 magic attack. The fact that I could wield an arcane and boost my magic attack by 20, wield an arcane stream necklace to hit 45+ with barrages, halve your attack speed, heal off you, and am overall far more accurate than you just proves magic is more superior. A competent mage should never have to go out of their way to kill a ranger because range is incredibly weak. This is relavant to the OPs rant because low levels like you (generally) can't afford to use ancients in minigames with decent armor. You do realise that 'lols' and exaggeration does not make your arguement any more credible, neither does continually making belittling assumptions about other posters to play yourself up. The only reason magic has the upper hand at the moment is because it has been favoured by recent updates (why? because people whined about it being underpowered). There's no reason to dismiss the crystal bow; sacrificing 1-2 inventory slots to deal at least some damage as opposed to nothing. You're includeing zuriels+arcane in the equation, therefore the ranger has the right to use morrigans+spectral if you're testing based on the max power of each skill, which in essense is a stupid test because it hardly applies to the game as a whole. A maxed out mage is supposed to be a deadly force to anything; most of the power comes solely from the crippling effect of the miasmic spells. It does not allow for the general claim 'magic is more superior' ('more' was unnecessary, and a little contradictory because it implies that range is superior to melee - you've already suggested that melee is better than range. *thumbs up* for sodomisng the combat triangle). 140 range defense is not that large, its approximately the same as adamant plate. Is that supposed to be impressive? What the hell do you think obtaining an arcane stream necklace is? Accumulating enough wealth for an arcane shield? Wasting money on zuriels staff? Enduring the tedium of mobilising armies for a seers ring (i) to slightly compensate for mixed gear? Endeavours of similar aim as the latter? Compared to a ranger's check-list I'd say thats going pretty damn far out of your way. Only a minority thinks if all of this is simple, way too much free time. Stop being judgemental.

Street price/GE price never goes over the price in the stores with unlimited stock lmfao. Unlimited stock did WAYYYYYYY more good than bad. If you think that, then I think your economics professor should have his education license revoked. Indeed, updates like that are never made without reason, *points at the big picture*.

Its also probably a good idea to save up tokens for battle robe pieces (specifically the robe-bottom, which costs 1000 tokens), the price has gone up 666% in half a year. Thats because the street price is like 15mil due to the sheer money-saving power of a full-set combined with a staff of light (plus with the update to recharge costs, real easy to fix up when they degrade). Actually, the most token efficient item to buy is adamant berserker shields, but no one buys them so rune gaunts are next best and F2Pers buy them all the time. Battle robes are actually not very token efficient. (token efficient = high gp gained per token) Yes, I'm saying that it could possibly be a worthy investment for some time in the future, I wasn't telling anyone to sell them now, that would be stupid. There is an increased demand for battle robes nowdays. I'm fairly confident they will yield higher token efficiency than the lesser items eventually.

Yet my post was not intended to answer anything, just to tell you how wrong you are. Gratz on assuming things without experience! It's what people in the rants forum of the RSOF do best. #-o I don't like your only explanation thus far, it implies that personal experiences apply to every related instance. A ranger can always pull out a crystal bow when a mage decides to far-cast. Also consider whether the ranger possessed a magic level equal to the mage's, chances are that splash frequency will greatly increase, especially if the mage is wearing pieces of stronger armor to compensate range defense for which an orthadox set has zero (excluding the arcane shield, which is obviously going to turn the tide a little, yet if the mage has an arcane shield, the ranger should have a spectral shield to be classified as a fair duel). A mage has to go out of their way simply acquiring the means to defeat a ranger; even then, it is very circumstantial. Also remember that I'm not talking solely about maxed out gameplay, there's more to combat than perfectly equipped lv99s duking it out. Relevant to the OPs initial rant, range is effective against mages, this is fact, use it.

True, but the OP was asking about exclusively magic, at least that what I gather.

besides the fact that gp per cast directly correlates with gp/xp, you should be able to roughly discern both in comparison to another spell provided one and a few other details. Anyone, micro-management to within a (exaggeration) 1-2gp cost efficiency range is hardly necessary unless you're on an extremely tight budget.

Congratulations, you answered absolutely nothing :] Of course magic is potent in the hands of an experienced user, you play smash brothers so you'd understand the benefits of mastering higher tiers (e.g magic). Yet in your commets you completely disregard the game as a whole. There is another side to magic, the side that completey sucks when used badly (whereas melee or even range is extremely difficult to screw up). RS does not revolve around you or even the higher clan community. In most cases range will completely dominate a mage because it is designed to do just that. Fact remains whether you like it or not, dungeoneering is a skill, suck it up. jagex ain't changing the game for you when the majority is happy.

Lmfao. You fail insanely. Range is FAR WORSE when it comes to fighting mages. Especially in places like clan wars or fight pits where people with skill go. Calling Dungeoneering a skill is a joke. Stop attacking other posters with little to back up your opinion. You said nothing to justify range is worse than melee against mages even when it is a ridiculous claim. if you hate dungeoneering as a skill so much, why don't fully concept something better instead of spreading hate.

Its also probably a good idea to save up tokens for battle robe pieces (specifically the robe-bottom, which costs 1000 tokens), the price has gone up 666% in half a year. Thats because the street price is like 15mil due to the sheer money-saving power of a full-set combined with a staff of light (plus with the update to recharge costs, real easy to fix up when they degrade).

Then you obviously havent superheated recently. You can now queue up superheats (idk when you could but i know you can now), the magic menu comes up only when you can cast a superheat which means more efficiency and more afk-a-bility. Combined with efienciency tips (playing on fixed size, placing iron ore right above deposit inv) you can get 100k+ xp /hr with superheat iron. :thumbsup: Ok, I'm probably slightly wrong there it should only be possible to cast superheat once every 2-2.5 seconds. In which case the rate is 80k-90k/hour depending on how fast you bank. I was going off 2.5-3 seconds a cast, which is what you get (and slower) if you're not really concentrating.

Ok, You don't know WTF you are talking about. There are many better ways to train. Humidify, plank make, stun, maging DKS, etc. High alch is a TERRIBLE way to train mage... You need to balance cost efficiency with speed, and you are overreacting, none of those methods are terrible, especially stun. 70-85 only takes about ~20k casts at a rate of 1200 casts an hour. You could easily attain 99 within a few weeks if you have about 30mil to burn. ================================= Its only possible to get 65k-75k/hour at most with superheat item High alchemy exp rate is 78k/hour Stun is 108k/hour (the downside is that this is pure mage exp with zero returns) though I just looked at string jewelry, if 1.8 seconds/cast is true then it ammounts to 80-120kexp an hour (depending on how fast you can bank). It also costs 547gp per cast (includeing basic amulet/wool), though you may get a slight return on the end products, not much if using plain gold. Even then it is still more expensive than stun.

With the lunar spellbook, humidify on vials is comparable to high alchemy (gives 65exp), except slightly more efficient because it turns in a small profit. Slower due to the banking required. Plank-make also requires banking, as well as being more expensive than stun.

Nope, sad to say, at only 65exp a cast, all of the high level curse spells yield greater exp, but cost MUCH more to train with. The lv80 spell stun grants 90exp per cast even if it splashes (which is what you want, so wear full plate armor) There is also an even faster method that involves casting high alchemy directly after casting a stun (theres no cool-down) which essentially combines the experience rates of both spells, although I'm not sure if it is still possible. As I said, any method involving soul runes is going to damage your wallet somewhat, high alchemy may not be the fastest, but it is the most efficient, although if you have not reached magic lv66 (required for the spell vulnerability, which grants 76exp a cast), high alchemy is definitely the best/fastest way to train.

This forum makes the feeling of the better through the RAAAGGGEEE! Indeed