Billy Key

oh my, I enjoy doing things like that :D good job :thumbsup:

hmmm... Tough, I would say 'the' probably. They are out and about more than TS are these days and I have had plenty more contact with them :D MoD or Gladz?

Happy Birthday DF! Great job on reaching the year mark, looks like you can look forward to more with the way you're doing :D hope to fight you at some point as it was fun when we fought recently It's a nice history too and gratz on meeting your combat requirement goal within the year, how often are deadlines met on time eh? :thumbsup:

Looks like a quality fight, nice and close, good job on getting the win Tri Force and good try DW :thumbsup:

Haha, nice to see an interest in BK :D We have a full history on our boards which is overly long but it's an interesting read if anyone wants to learn more about what we have been through, it was started in January 01 by Osiris BK and continues right through to the current day 8-) . It is pretty unique and the detail of the history is something that we are proud of, feel free to check it out, it is in the guest boards of our site. Also there is not alot of controversy about the oldest clans: The Sabres was made before 'the' on Cyberwars, 'the' was then created on cyberwars. Cyberwars was what Jagex did before Runescape came into existence, those 2 clans made the switch over to Runescape and therefore are the oldest clans IN Runescape but they are not the oldest clans MADE IN Runescape as they were made in Cyberwars. The Blacknights clan was created in RS Classic in January 2001, the first month Runescape was in existence, a couple of weeks later in early February The Gladiatorz were made, that makes BK and Gladz the oldest clans MADE IN Runescape. Jaguars were creates soon after and clans like RSD, Corruption, Exer and DI followed although not in that order, this is where my knowledge peters out up until 06 when I actually began clanning. I hope that helps anyone who still didn't know the order of the first clans in RS! To Decebal: BK is probably more active on tipit than RSC now I think, we rarely post on either truth be told. We keep a presence on both boards though. I don't know whether we are an RSC clan or a tipit clan but I would like to think that we are both.

Ni, a far more interesting clan than DK could ever be in terms of history and impact on the clan world. KO or CR?

I would love to, but I don't think the people in Gladz that make the wars would agree. You weren't around for the history, lordhotshot, but let's just say...there's a lot of it. ;) Get me up to date then :?: best not to go into it here man, it's the type of thing that comes up on RSC every now and then :D I think that unless something happened that was regarded as rule breaking there was a kind of mutual respect between the 2 clans taking part in the war, like at the end of a football match when teams swap shirts and such. When fights were close it would get so tense though, not that I want to keep going back to Gladz but the main time I remember waiting in Edge was after a miniwar against them back in 06, BK ended with 12 people after both clans started with around 50, there wasn't so much friendly chatter but it was tense right up until the last kill and then the winners came down to edge, good times. Both the wars I know about between us were epic =P~

I'd like to say that it's a shame that there was a misunderstanding. I would also like to ask what exactly the flaming was that you experienced from BK, there was a bunch of "idiot" from both clans, Yoshi something called us idiots as soon as we came out after you exited the portal. Apart from that some members spammed "starting 25, ending 26" as has been shown in a screenshot. As for "Gl rebuilding" we still didn't directly flame you as a clan as you had done to us, we hoped that would put across our intentions to limit the damage that had been done and sort something there and then, it didn't seem to as when we attempted to contact you through IRC we had the 2/3 members of leadership banned. 2/3 members of leadership is hardly flooding and unless you have proof of any more than those 2/3 people in your IRC I think that claim is unjustified. We might have had a 4th member go in a bit later to see if they could get anywhere but again they were not listened to if that did infact happen. Besides the flooding of your IRC I would be happy enough with your time line between then and now, I would prefer to fight you again than try to claim this win (which I do feel we are entitled to do if we so wish) but then I am just an elder and I enjoy my wars :D I hope we get this sorted in some way :thumbsup:

Bk posts on Tipit more than we post on RSC but that's not saying much and one of our leaders is a mod of some sort here :$

I miss full out wars up at members gate, they were quality and I agree about the waiting in Edgeville after you die to greet either your own winners or the other clan coming in. Also having a chat with the other clan while waiting. I remember BK fought WG a few times in big wars up at the members gate :D being an elder and emeritus of a clan that no longer exists I have no say in whether we would do it but I know that we prefer wars to pkri's as a clan so i don't see why there would be a problem. Retireds allowed and long prep would be quality, against Gladz would be even better :pray:

my clans strengths would have to be longevity after 8 and a half years out and about :oops: also our community, most of our members get on with most other members and like families we have a couple of feuds here and there but what we have that very few other clans do is a massive group of retired or old members who hang around sometimes, come back when we aren't doing so well and are just really good to have about. Lots of our members have known each other for years and yet we make sure our new members feel welcome aswell. Also we are an unpredictable clan as you wont here from us quite as much as some other clans and we have been known to pull alarming options seemingly randomly (especially with retireds allowed :D). The main weakness of BK is a reluctance to keep up with the trends of warring and PKRI's in the Runescape Community. Like I said we have alot of older members and after being the best clan in Runescape in capped melee only fights in 06 binding came in and we were hit, clans could take us out in matched opts and we weren't nearly so formidable. Later sniping came in and again we were left with even more clans finding wars against us easier to win, now range is common which it didn't used to be. It is a mind set that we enjoy what we do and while other clans change tactics to win wars BK wants to have fun in fights. I still miss melee only capped fights up at the members gate :( We have moved to evolve though (as losing is far less fun than winning!) and we snipe and bind alot but I for one feel frustrated at the way things have changed from having fun to winning at all costs as I see it and getting fights over with asap. my own weakness is that everything I write turns into an essay that people can't be bothered to read :oops:

It's a shame to see a clan close, R.I.P. It's a shame to see it close because leaders are retiring, being in BK for 3+ years I have been under many leaders, warlords and council and with the way BK works it seems unfathomable for it to be a reason for closing the clan. Saying that, it is the leader's decision to close the clan, it's just a shame for a successful clan with a good community to just be gone when it could be possible to keep it going. I wasn't here for BK's fight against you guys which seems a shame now :( Oh and please ignore Zimbe's post on the first page (ofcourse you are welcome to join BK but we do not condone recruitment on a closing topic in the least.) Sorry to anyone that was offended

It was fun! I got called an idiot because I tried to bind someone off me but hey, I wont hold a grudge! :D I had fun even though after a while I always had atleast 3 people on me and I ended up with half a pizza and 50hp. It was a bit disappointing towards the end but it was only a few and the rest of the clan were perfectly reasonable, cheers for the fight TDD and it was close up until like 19 - 18 I think so good try :thumbsup: you got one or two nice kos too lol :roll:

no one is going to win...

cheers for the fight DF, was lots of fun, my first war without range in a long long time and it was nice. We got off to a good start and when that happens it is always difficult to get a comeback going especially when we had enough people to get ko's and you began to run low. I look forward to the next time! Hopefully we can both get bigger turnouts! :D GF DF! :thumbsup:

Funny you should say that, I was the one who set up this war but yes, we do now have our leadership in place since yesterday. I was gutted that I couldn't make this war, with the delay the war clashed with my dinner and I couldn't get back to the computer in time to take part unfortunately :cry: I was glad to hear that the fight was a success though and maybe we can fight again in the future! Thanks for mustering as early as you could Potence, was very reasonable of you

This on both occasions, I think this is the policy in BK and if the current member was doing most of the flaming and it was worth taking action over then action would be taken on that member, BK has kicked a member for flaming an ex member in the past. I don't care if someone is in the clan or out the clan, I refuse to show bias, if you're out of order then you will be called on it as far as I am concerned. Not that I am in a position to take any action any longer :oops:

I don't think there is a favourite in every clan. Talking from experience in BK you might lose a couple of people with 1 person but there is no one that would take all the members as has been proven with leaders leaving in the recent past and ending up coming back because their new clan wasn't the same. I agree though that there are things that are out of peoples control. If you have a split in the clan for instance, it is a horrible situation to be in and generally if it is a big enough deal then you will lose people. Again there was a problem within BK a while back about people wanting to pk alot more than we were doing and people not wanting to do any more and it led to a split and eventually most of the warrers went to clans like DF and Corr. I think there are so many things that can cause a slump, 1 disgruntled member can lower morale and if a bandwagon is started it can be difficult to stop. BK is a bit unique in terms of slumping though because we probably have so many retired members (our ml including retireds is nearly 200 people) and those retireds help in bad times as most have been in the clan for over 5 years and give the clan a core that is very tough to break down even if one of the "favourites" leaves the clan. We also seem to slump and rise at our own pace and so at the moment we are on the rise, gaining members and getting better at warring :D

As a member of BK I think I have a pretty strange view on slumping as while it does happen in BK quite often it is never something to be worried about because BK's core has been established for so long that it always stops before getting too bad (eg. we dropped past 70 people for the first time last time we slumped and yet there was very little panic, we were just getting on with things and we are now back above 80 people). I think you need to make it obvious what you expect of your members, there is no point being hard on them though, I wouldn't say you should be either of those 2 options, I would keep doing what has been done and if there is a general dislike for what is happening then look at changing it. If it is simply a matter of someone with some influence leaving and people following that person then I don't think it is worth acting upon past reassuring people as it should just be a short term thing. If you have a split then you need to try to appease both sides and if that is not possible then decisions need to be made about the path that will be taken. I would probably lean towards a soft way but I would not have people take advantage of it.

Mori Gladz or 'the' or Jagz?

TRWF The Titans or Runescape Dynasty?

1. Do you think clan members of today are more/less loyal as a few years ago? No. I think the reasons for wanting to join a clan have changed though and that is why people come and go alot more often. There are always exceptions but for the most part, if someone joins a big clan then they do it to win wars. If that clan has problems then they will lose members because they are not winning wars. I think clans in the past were more interested in the community than the amount of wars they were winning. That is not all that it is down to but I think that is part of it. 2. Do you think that people are prepared to do as much for their clan as a few years ago? Yes. I think that people are willing to work for their clan if they think it is worth it. With warring being such a big deal now, if a clan does get worse at it then I think that people see less of a reason to try as hard as they did. 3. Do you think - in general - top clans of today are as good as some of the legendary clans like DS, ZF, ... Yes, ofcourse they wont fight and haven't been tried against each other but not all of the members from the old clans have gone and the powerhouse clans are filled with them and other good warrers from other good clans that have been dominant in the past. Organisation and tactics have changed so much since those clans were about that if they were to return I feel that they would have a difficult time getting to the dominance that they once had. Sniping comes to mind as being used alot more effectively now than it was back when DS and ZF were about.

Yeah, I read the bit about any rule being broken but like I said I am not sure it can be literally interpreted as a rule. To me deciding who attacks first is simply something that is done to avoid confusion when all the rules have been sorted. I guess that if it was agreed as a rule then DF have DQ but I would have a problem enforcing that particular DQ simply because it is such a minor infringement no matter who they piled (maybe that is why I am not one of the people making this decision eh? :lol: ). Uffan managed to tank 60+ people half decently anyway and he would have been their first pile anyway. If you had a person you were ready to pile then click the mouse and get on with piling that person as far as I am concerned. As for them allowing you to be as late as you were which they seem to deny so far, it is disrespectful to be that late to a fight for the sake of a few members whether or not the other clan agreed. Anyway it is not my place to get involved in this debate, I hope the outcome is the best possible for all parties as unlikely as that is! :thumbsup:

CL Crimson Raiders or Runescape Elites?

Honestly walking out because the other clan attacked first seems an over reaction. Whether it's a misunderstanding or intentional, I think it's worth having the fight even if you do decide to try to get them DQed afterwards. As far as rules go, who attacks first is a pretty minor thing and if you do get rushed unexpectedly then you need to try to regroup and keep on going. As far as what tipit should decide, I am myself undecided. half an hour is a long time to wait for a clan. It's always a good idea to leave a bit of time between events to make sure that the one before has finished before the next is scheduled to start. In BK the rule is to leave atleast an hour I think. In the past BK has had wars that overlapped with BK cadet wars and BK cadet staff have been late/not been able to attend the BK wars because of the cadet war. It isn't nice to have anyone on your side miss a war but if it is your mistake that has caused the problem then I think you need to suck it up and leave the people still fighting behind in order to get to the next war on time. LGZ did break the rule about who attacked first but in my experience which clan attacks is the type of rule you stick on at the end of negotiations just to stop any confusion at the start of the fight. It's not a major rule that would warrant a clan to walk out if it was broken or a disqualification. The decision for tipit looks to me to be whether or not the rule that was broken is worthy of a clan walking out of the arena now that the question of who attacked first seems to have been answered in the video, if it is then DF gets the win and if not then LGZ are the winners. I hope you can sort this out! :ohnoes: