Billy Key

Um, I'll pass this on and see if BK would be interested in taking part, sounds interesting.

I have to say that while DI had remained near the top of warring for longer than any other clan in P2P and F2P they were always vulnerable because Ghjjf had such influence over what would happen to the clan. DI had the image of being unbreakable, they were the clan that would always be there at the top kind of but having one leader get so entrenched and influential creates the problem of what happens when that person decides to leave, SE had similar troubles with their leadership leaving at once, they did not want to hand the clan on as it was their clan so to speak. You look at the oldest clans like BK, 'THE' and Gladz and what is clear is that we have no complete dependence on one member, all of us have relatively regular turnover at the top and it makes it impossible for problems like this to occur as even if one person or group decided that they wanted to end the clan there is such a depth in these clans leadership that, while maybe not impossible, it would be very difficult for them to pull it off. When you rely upon one person then when that person is no longer in a position to be relied upon then where does that leave you? Both SE and DI were big clans but they had this similar flaw and that is what for me led to their end.

Oi oi gratz DF, I was watching (although I couldn't get in until after the fight had started, world 75 hates me :rolleyes: ) but had to leave to go have dinner and when I left it was pretty much over, I thought DV did well for a portion of the fight though and kept up while 3/4 members down for quite a while but it began to get to the point where the DF members could tank and the DV members could and from there DF were comfortable. Gratz again DF and unlucky DV, better luck next time :thumbsup:

oh my, I am a little confused :oops: wb pkm :eek:

Welcome IL, nice to see you joining tipit :D

gratz TRWF, Boozman is a nooby :thumbsup:

Nah I wouldn't ask for another thing about BK although I think there are a couple of BK members who could give pretty unique interviews. And I am not even talking about cape switching and the stuff that we got annoyed at Illusion about, the very top clans have all begun crashing each other and there is no debate that that is No honour. Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional thing about them but no more than any other clan. and I don't think it is a matter of hating PvP clans or hating CWA clans, I think it is more that PvP clans find CWA boring and for the most part CWA clans aren't interested in returning for hours. I don't actually mind the returning and enjoyed PKRI's up until recently. My own problem with PvP is the sense that it is all about winning. Honour and fun are out the window. As for an illusion interview, I think that would be interesting, you're one of the few clans to move from Tipit to RSC to pursue PvP fights, like I say, all clans are different and have their own stories to tell. Then why deny / lessen the interviews/articles about the top 10 clans <3: I know you said you wouldn't mind them every now and then but still think the clan world should know more about this pvp side. And same with the pvpers they should learn some more about some CWA clans. [ But we know that won't happen for the majority of rsc users <_< ] I don't mean limit interviews with the top 10 clans, I simply mean don't focus on them more than anyone else which is what it sounded like was what Pyrox was suggesting in the original post, I may have misunderstood. :oops:

Good job Gladz! LND are a tough clan to fight in matched opts but it looks like a clear cut victory :thumbsup: Nice try LND, from what i have seen Gladz are another clan that are very good at matched opts although I haven't had a chance to test my theory in so long, if only there were a jealousy smiley... :grin:

Nah I wouldn't ask for another thing about BK although I think there are a couple of BK members who could give pretty unique interviews. And I am not even talking about cape switching and the stuff that we got annoyed at Illusion about, the very top clans have all begun crashing each other and there is no debate that that is No honour. Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional thing about them but no more than any other clan. and I don't think it is a matter of hating PvP clans or hating CWA clans, I think it is more that PvP clans find CWA boring and for the most part CWA clans aren't interested in returning for hours. I don't actually mind the returning and enjoyed PKRI's up until recently. My own problem with PvP is the sense that it is all about winning. Honour and fun are out the window. As for an illusion interview, I think that would be interesting, you're one of the few clans to move from Tipit to RSC to pursue PvP fights, like I say, all clans are different and have their own stories to tell.

yeah we also have a ton of old fogeys.

BK is not the oldest clan in Runescape, best not to start that again. It might be easier to understand if I say that BK is the only clan still around that was created from scratch in January 2001. Also I think that talking about the top RSC clans would be a little inappropriate. Partly because they are not a part of Tipit and partly because as far as I am concerned alot of the top clans have created a blemish in the clan community. An article about specific clans in the top 10 every now and again might not be too bad but I don't think they deserve to be focused on. I like things about specific clans, I think it is interesting to see what they have been through, it is all unique and interesting, also specific people who have had alot to do with clans who would have interesting stories about clans, what i don't like is talking to people who have no real connection to clanning (eg. I would prefer an interview with Axe man Jack to one with Zezima in the clan Chronicle. AMJ founded The Slayers Guild and had an interesting pk clan history aswell with WG and BK and the personal grudges.), Zezima was in FT for a while but there isn't much clan related, not enough to be a part of an interview with him. The interview about BK was interesting although I think the wrong person was approached (no offence Absy <3: ), I think you need to know who to approach to get the best interviews about specific clans or events that you can aswell (eg. original/old school members). Asking about within the clan (in IRC, posting on the boards, getting access to a Ventrilo/Teamspeak, etc...) you might uncover some old person/people that no one knows about outside the clan who remembers an incredible amount about clan history in general aswell Looking at history is always interesting and it is good that it is a large part of the chronicle.

Hmm... Unless it was a clan created by General Shop + Viper + Tyler then it wont have been VR because they were created in 06 or maybe even 07, VR is unique as it is the only clan created by that lot that has existed for any length of time. I think you mean the DF + Corruption alliance, I think DF split from the alliance for some reason and that led to their big rivalry which lasted so long. I didn't think DF were around in 04 though... Maybe they were and just weren't so big, as far as I know the war they announced themselves was in the early to mid 06 where they beat BK in an official war. Incidentally, aswell as VR, EH was also created in 06. Was kind of the last year that any top 5 clans were created although TR were created in 07 and Shadow Elves only joined the very top clans in 07 although they were around a long time before that. I can tell you that in the Summer of 05 BK split from the alliance ('THE' Clan, Gladiatorz, Clan Jaguar, The Blacknights clan and a bit later The Mighty Red Dragons), In August 05 BK had the biggest miniwar between single clans in RS history (210 v 240 or something I think, BK won) CJ's Tourney took place in 06, I don't know if it was the first time or not but it had the interest of alot of clans and BK won the 30 v 30 section and was pretty much dominant in matched option fights but I don't know how useful that is :oops: The Dynasty died the last time in late 06/early 07, The Mighty Red Dragons turned into a community only clan in late 07/early 08, The Dark Slayers died in 07/08, Swords of Glory (a major Portuguese/Brazilian country clan) died in 08 I think. Time has flown by and I only know things from 06 onwards really so yeah, that's about all I can think of, I can't be bothered to look up war results but ofcourse some big wars, BK v Gladz (05), DI v DS (06), 'THE' v DS (06/07), Gladz v DS (06/07), there were some overly long run ins between DF v DI and DF v Corr, also EH had some too, I think they were the first clan to go over 12 hours. Oh also RS wasn't created in 2000, I guess you could put the rivalry between The Sabres and 'THE' Clan there to signify that it happened in Cyber Wars before RS was created. The order of the first clans that are still around is The Sabres, 'the' clan, The Blacknights, Gladiatorz, Jagz if you want to put that in but it's always a controversial topic. That would go in 2001 and you could put other clans like The Wanderers there too although i can't remember all the clans from back then that are still alive and it's unlikely anyone would remember the order of the dead clans as there were quite a few of them.

Nah I am pretty sure on average we were out leveled, RT had one person under 115 combat (they only have 2 on their ml) and they were 99 prayer and defence and most were 120+ whereas BK had quite a few people between 110 and 115. Our high levels were probably higher but our low levels were lower.

I would like to see it continue, I think it is something interresting and is something that is unique to tipit, even when I only used the RSC boards I knew about tipit's clan chronicle despite never having been on these boards. I think the current clan chronicle is pretty decent, there are alot of interviews with specific people which might not be best as it is the clan chronicle but I like the interviews with specific clans, I always find those interesting (even with newer clans, if they are successful then they have probably already overcome adversity), every clans history is different and I think that is something which should stay for sure. I think I could get an interesting interview or two, BK has a depth of knowledge that very few other clans do, the founder of GH and former leader of 'the' and one of the founders of ZF are just two of those people not to mention people that have been in BK since 2001 and people who were a part of the alliance and and most of the alliances before that. My writing tends to be very long winded though :oops: I could also probably get one of the most in depth interviews about THE Ohio State Buckeyes aswell but that's a whole different story... :grin:

I think thbe PvP aspect is becoming less popular, there are alot of people who play this game for fun and enjoy a win but really don't want to finish things off as quickly as possible or gain every little advantage so as to give themselves the best opportunity whether or not the tactics are distinctly dodgy and then there are people who will do those things to win, cape switching, sending masses of snipers to overwhelm the other clan as soon as possible, crashing their rival clans to try to make them weaker outside of wars between them. I think what is happening is that the people who play for fun are being forced out of PvP, with these tactics the focus is now completely competitive, if you don't win then you get nothing, there is no fun and there is very little pride. Clan wars seems to be the sanctuary from that, it is for people who aren't interested about making other people lose their stuff and are more interested in having a good fight and enjoying having a good fight. I used to love PKRI's but with this change of focus I can no longer stand them. Anyway what has happened to the clan world is that it has split. The PKing clans on RSC get all the exposure and so people notice that there are less clans about that are doing PKRI's and think "wow the clan world is dieing" and then you have the people on tipit which is based around CWA who realise that there are still alot of very decent clans about who aren't so well known but are thriving in CWA.

I believe junior clans were exempt from the rule when it was put in. I don't understand what you mean Nikhil, the initiates are on both BK's ml and BKI's ml which is why after we have honoured the fight that BKI have arranged with Downfall, BKI will be leaving the TWR. As BKI are on BK's ml we only had to post 1 list... Oh and BK actually has over 160 members including all the retired members (of which there are alot), unfortunately most of our retired members have been completely retired from RS for over 3 years and are simply there so that they are remembered rather than because they are expected to come back. http://www.runehead.com/clans/ml.php?clan=blacknights we don't use this list for anything really but it's nice to look at and remember people :D

We had alot of people who couldn't make this fight because of the time and the day for those surprised by the pull. Our prime time is Sunday at around 3:30-4:30 EST I think so 2 hours earlier on the Saturday is a little out of the way and is a time that I don't remember BK ever fighting at. We seem to have alot of members who work/have some sort of hobby that takes precedence on Saturday afternoons/evenings not to mention some Aussie members (1 of whom stayed up into the early hours for this fight, thanks very much to that person <3: ). I was called 4 times I think, nice to see myself being piled in one of the pics :D I nearly got koed in my d'hide chaps (I ran out of d'hide bodies in a recent pk trip :oops:) but came round and dragged DV all over, I think by the time DV had their next pile it was 24-20 and I was still alive :grin: Maybe there will be a vid posted at some point. In the end BK had an impressive performance and with our superior levels we came close to overcoming the number difference but DV held on for the win. I apologise for anyone who was offended by anything anyone said, I tank 4 BK's comment is simply playful banter and yeah the last 4 people were getting all sorts of instructions from all sorts of people on vent which explains one of the things that Epademic said (Flofodo said something similar in vent lol :-# ) and in the heat of the moment may have not been bothered about where he typed what he did. Leah's being annoyed at Illusion is still from the last fight where not all of illusions members were exactly respectful (same goes for some of BK's members) and I understand it. The rest I don't know what to say or have forgotten what was said so yeah #-o GF DV, it was fun and I hope we can do something similar in the near future! \:D/

Leaders: Darkwitchy, Stoned Pixie, Orbital2 Council: 777 Scuba 777, Finde2606, Drkness4eva, Angel Marie1, Absuseless, T Board, Tortilliachp Warlords: Pk Pena, Emanpop, Vanzant Members: Firefly990, Evilsmurf69, Kav, Carter1312, Death Wish8, Heavy Bre, Bryanlam, Q384564, Andy K 47, ganesha All current or former BK... :oops:

From what I understand of BK's point of view of this fight, we turned up and waited for them and then when they came Exodus started threatening to crash us if we didn't switch worlds so that they could fight CR but BK didn't want to switch so the fight commenced, our first two piles were fine but our 3rd and 5th piles ran most of the way to the Greaters. Meanwhile our pile was being sniped by Illusion members in BK's capes, after 9 minutes with people breaking bounds and this use of our cape we wanted no further part in the fight and walked out due to our disagreements with the tactics being used (which are apparently common now :-( ). Illusion outnumbered us and would probably have won the run in and we don't want to take the win from them I don't think but we would like to let you know that there was some controversy in the result and while we left the area we had our reasons and had enough people there and returning to continue fighting for longer. If you want more info then you can check out the topic on RSC, I don't want to get into all that here. Suffice to say it was a long topic.

Welcome to tipit LHL!

oooh congratz Joe! :thumbsup:

There is a big problem with tipit clans and TWR moving into PvP at this point in time. The move is not an easy move to make and you need all of your members to be 100% dedicated to it. The fact that fights are very rarely clean now that any clans that AC either aren't big enough to deal with the NH that will appear or will get attacked by another clan their size or bigger because of the "crashing war" also make it difficult. Moving into PvP means a change of tactics if you fight other established PvP clans and the tactics being used would put some clans off the move aswell. PKRI's are now allll about winning, the fun part is pretty much out of the window, if you are on top then you try to end the fight asap by sending all the snipers you possibly can, things that used to be NH are now used by everyone and so I think that PKRI's have evolved and in a very negative way that has put me right off them. BK do have PvP fights occasionally and we have found ourselves very surprised by tactics that other clans used against us and infact walked out of our last PvP fight. More worlds would make things easier, saying that, there would still be problems and we are unlikely to get more worlds. I am happy enough with CWA at this point and I think TWR's use of it has protected the clans from the effect that the evolution of PKRI's has had on RSC clans that have closed or slumped. I think that smaller clans are better off sticking to CWA and having the occasional pkri than attempting to go full on into PKRI's because when they are all about winning you find that you lose members to the clans that do all the winning. my answer to the topic is I hope not.

What's not to like right? :D Hmm... just one thing. I heard a few times that for many people, the change from a junior clan to the main clan can be a fery different experience, which makes some people leave. Besides, what stops the FA's to learn while they're part of the main clan? It's difficult to learn in the time it takes for your hp go from full to empty in a big full out, people offer help but it's rare that people will actually go and ask for help for one reason or another, it's a way of easing people in. And BK have never had a problem with BKC graduates leaving, maybe BKC was always very similar to BK. We use the same boards, the same IRC, the same Ventrilo and for the most part go to the same events so the clans while being seperate in some ways were always integrated and cadets had alot of contact with BK members :D BKI is no different to BKC in that sense so we don't anticipate any problems with that now either.

What's not to like right? :D Hmm... just one thing. I heard a few times that for many people, the change from a junior clan to the main clan can be a fery different experience, which makes some people leave. Besides, what stops the FA's to learn while they're part of the main clan? It's difficult to learn in the time it takes for your hp go from full to empty in a big full out, people offer help but it's rare that people will actually go and ask for help for one reason or another, it's a way of easing people in. And BK have never had a problem with BKC graduates leaving, maybe BKC was always very similar to BK. We use the same boards, the same IRC, the same Ventrilo and for the most part go to the same events so the clans while being seperate in some ways were always integrated and cadets had alot of contact with BK members :D BKI is no different to BKC in that sense so we don't anticipate any problems with that now either.

To expand on what Jordan has said: Like I said earlier, this is an FA program with some differences. BK doesn't target people with prior experience in warring and we never have, we are happy whether or not people have experience as long as they are willing to try. BKC was great as it allowed new people to get used to things and that is what BKI now does for a larger group of newcomers, alot of people felt that the cadets were great apart from the difficulty in gaining new members, with BK FA's also coming through they have slightly bigger wars now with slightly higher levels but they still have the chance to experience some important things before being plunged into a 50 v 50 or whatever BK does in fullouts on the weekends. If the members dry up for any reason then BKI will survive as an FA program so there will not be a new junior clan at any point while BKI is around as that is a part of the larger program. As opposed to going back to the old junior clan or leaving behind something that worked for 5 years completely, we have mixed the junior clan which we liked with the FA program which we liked. BKI has people below BK reqs who train up, their own ml to keep things more tidy and their own wars for practice like BKC had and they are also a way of keeping track of Future Applicants and making sure they are active and happy with things. What's not to like right? :D