Grimy_Bunyip

What about Rapid Heal? rapid heal is indeed one use so is berserk for boosted stats (greenman's ale, spicy stew) since berserk carries over to non-combat stats it's a pretty useless armor overall, but it has a few miniscule uses

You will earn 52 mil gp in slayer points alone to 99 slayer, if you trade them in for magic dart runes hard to say how much else I've received in drops or what I spent on runes though

looks like a snake, a symbol of guthix (think juna the snake)

you probably won't make money off the individual action of alchemy but if you alchemy while telegrabbing wines of zamorak or something like that, you could pull yourself into the green

Person with your stats should be able to manage 40 mith dragons per hour without a slayer task recommend you get a pack yak before you start camping, that way you can winter storage all the mith bars healing isnt a huge issue with deflect melee + karils armor. A pack yak full of monkfish is more than enough for how long each trip will last. hope that helps, and do keep me in mind :P assuming that the drop rate of the dragon full helmet is 1/1000... and a visage drop rate is also 1/1000, we're talking about an income rate in excess of 2 mil gp/hour, comparable to tormented demons of course we don't know what the drop rates are... hence my intense curiosity.

That's a drop rate of 1:35, so I guess I was way off. perfectly acceptable error though, i'm pretty sure statisticians traditionally wait for 20 instances (in this case this would be 20 chewed bone drops) before making any final conclusions to the real probability So by probably a good chance I was just lucky. Who knows, I havent gotten 20 drops yet so I won't make any random claims yet. PS stonewall, if you ever do make a drop log... pm me ;)

this guide is ancient, and alot of the pictures aren't working but most of the dust devil safe spot images are still intact http://forum.tip.it/topic/28395-fubais-safespot-guide-updated-12-nov-2006-aow/

Let me compare dark beasts to living rocks, because both have low defenses (dark beasts are weak to whip at least) both are in single combat and both have really high hitpoints if anything dark beasts would have higher ranged defense than living rocks a cannon @ dark beasts boosts my kill rate from ~110 dark beasts per hour with overloads and turmoil, to 160 dark beasts per hour I'm assuming that you don't use overloads or turmoil, so the cannon could very well boost your kill rate from ~80 dark beasts to 130 dark beasts per hour the percent ratio boost should be roughly similar. Expect an 40% boost in kill rates?

Here lies the root of the problem we don't know that the kill rate increase is only 1 kill per hour both my numbers and my gut tell me it's more than 1 kill per hour my problem is that I cannot fathom why you could possibly feel so negatively about buying, bringing, and drinking prayer potions you have to buy them, bring them, and drink them regardless of whether you use a fire cape or not. I think you are jaded in your views of how much work bringing/buying/drinking prayer potions to ice wyrms is.

the point is that even if the the +4 boost boosted the kill rate from only 120 to 121 per hour it would still be worth it simply because prayer potions arent worth that much money Sure I could go tally up up ice wyrm kills once i got 93 slayer BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARY because i know that i only need to boost my kill rate by 1 kill per hour to make a difference are you saying that based on past experiences, ferocious rings dont even boost kill rates by even a single kill per hour? because that's all it takes

wait, of course high hitting weapons dont benefit as much as they should Did I not account for that? of course I did fire surge maxes ~ 90, so the bonus is ONLY 9.3% whereas the max hit of rune darts, a low hitting weapon with a max hit of ~ 16 would receive a bonus of 50% or a whip, which i max hit ~50 without a ferocious ring, which would benefit ~ 16% from a ferocious ring i'm pretty sure that's well accounted for. the point is that a +10 prayer bonus is inconsequential to to even a small bonus such as 9.3% the soul wars cape only saves you 16.6k gp/hour in prayer potions it doesn't really matter how small the benefit from the +4 bonus is. the cost savings from the soul wars cape is inherently miniscule. so i make about ~2 mil gp hour, and i bet any lvl 93 slayer could make that much killing tormented demons or what the heck other boss monster hell he would probably be making 2 mil gp hour or more just hunting ice wyrms... 16.6k/2000k = 0.0083 the +4 bonus would have to give less than a +0.83% bonus to damage rate. I don't know what your past experiences tell you. But I can tell you right now, +0.83% is not noticeable to the average human. I fail to see how it is even possible your past observations could have led you to your current conclusion, unless you have a broken stopwatch just so you know, using summoning scrolls can slow down familiar timers. I don't see how else you could have made such a massive error in your "past experiences"

lets assume that the player is in fact praying the entire time, including idle + prayer time a previous player asserted that he kills 120 ice wyrms in hour, this would of course, include idle time so 700 prayer points for 120 kills in 60 minutes with a soul wars cape okay so the math gets a little tricky here. Because a only a fraction of the time spent will actually be in combat, during which a fire cape is ineffective so including idle time, it takes this man 30 seconds to kill a wyrm lets go with your assumption that time picking up a drop + stomping a wyrm + running away from a wyrm takes 9 seconds, actually lets round that up to 10 seconds to be generous 120 * (1.093 * 20/30 + 10/30) = 127.4 kills per hour 860 prayer points for 127.4 kills in 60 minutes with a fire cape under your assumptions 810 prayer points for 120 kills in 56.5 minutes 110 prayer points to save 3.5 minutes 11458 gp in prayer potions to save 3.5 minutes breakoff income of 196,422 gp/hour STILL INSIGNIFICANT TO A LVL 93 SLAYER it's not precise, but it's accurate for monsters of sufficient large hitpoints rule of thumb, if it takes on average less than 3-4 hits to kill a monster, then my calculation is inaccurate but it takes 7 hits to kill an ice wyrm. The amount of HP a wyrm has before he dies is sufficiently random after 7 hits to use my overkill assumptions. about how damage is calculated, It's already been shown that damage shows a linear, flat, horizontal, whatever you want to call it distribution You are just as likely to hit a 1 as you are to hit a 50 I fail to see what else there is to discuss about how damage is calculated research has been done, whether you are aware of it or not. you're trash talking theoretical math when you're making your judgements based on "past experiences"? theoretical math can be wrong so can past experiences, further more i can argue past experiences are much more prone to being wrong than theoretical math.

wait what are you defining as significant? the ferocious ring boosts kill rates by at least 5% in kuradal's dungeon. I mean i guess that's not significant for some people, but remember this is an MMORPG, people pay millions of gp for relatively small bonuses I could argue that an abyssal whip is only 10-15% faster than a dragon scimitar. I mean what kind of kill rate differences are we expecting? in theory the overkill losses are approximately equal to half of your average hit ice wyrms have a MASSIVE hitpoints pool (300 hp) lets say max hit is 86 without the +4 bonus and 90 with the +4 bonus overkill losses per kill without the +4 bonus: 21.5/300 = 7.167% overkill losses per kill with the +4 bonus: 23.5/300 = 7.783% we're talking about a difference of 0.62% in knock out damage losses much less than the ~9% kill rate increase fire capes will offer I'll admit i made a false assumption based on prayer still being on during idle time but the thing is, the value is still insignificant as things are now, the cutoff income remains at 120k gp/hour unless your spending 5 minutes idle in between kills with your prayer on idle time isnt going to make a difference most lvl 93 slayers will make much more than 120k gp/hour that's the income rate of picking flax afterall... ANYWAYS THE POINT IS theoretical math can be inaccurate yes, but up to a certain point in this case, my end result would require a percent error of over 1000% in order for there to be any possibility of soul wars capes being more worth it than fire capes THEORETICAL MATH CAN BE WRONG BUT NOT 1000% WRONG

ferocious ring boosts minimum hit AND maximum hit. not +4 to just maximum hit. the fire cape will work like the ferocious ring so this is how i worked. 86 maximum = 43 average +4 = 47 47/43 = 9.3% average damage boost 10% was an estimate 200 kills per hour was a rough estimate, my proof showed that the fire cape is even more worthwhile the fewer kills per hour In that regard, 200 kills per hour is actually a highly conservative estimate i promise you that if i assumed 120 wyrms per hour, the argument for using fire cape would become even stronger, not weaker.

i got 5 chewed bones in my last 175 mith dragon kills

Someone with 95 prayer, ancient curses, and as low a level as possible in attack and defense magic/ranged/summoning levels not relevant low strength level preferred, but not critical So i want to catalog the turmoil bonuses of several monsters. Ideally this should be done with someone with as low a level in the relevant stats as possible for accuracy don't know if i could pay you, that might be a breach of RWT trade rules maybe i could buy a godsword and loan it to you by the monster or something or maybe I could make you a personalized spreadsheet =D honestly I'm not sure what I could offer in exchange for the data much outside of credit on any guides i create with the data but maybe we can talk?

I bring a bunyip to counteract the desert effect prayer gear + cannon for combat cannon practically doubles the kill rate, so i use it

math is the language of business, and efficiency is a subset of business you know the language, or you dont

you log back in the center regardless of where you log off! isn't that awesome? from what I heard, focus sight/hexcrest is still glitched against targets that do not have a slayer requirement to kill in other words going on task with a focus sight won't be any easier than killing Jad without a task Took me 4 tries personally, Don't sweat it too bad. log off as many times as you need, look up new strategies i personally prefer the keep prayer on pro mage at all times except when you see the range attack coming, since the range attack is easier to distinguish, and the magic attack looks similar to jad's recoil.

[spoiler=Quotes] I think you're overlooking quite a bit of information there. Salarin the Twisted is perhaps the best example of this - every cast of Fire Strike does 12 damage. He has 70 HP. Let's just say it was possible to increase this to 13 damage. This is an 8% increase in damage. How many casts will it take to kill Salarin with Fire Strikes? 6. How many casts will it take to kill Salarin with a 13 damage spell? 6. This isn't exactly the same situation since damage against Salarin with Strike spells are at a set number, but you can do something similar with average damage. Fire Surge is expected to inflict 43 damage on average. At 300 Hitpoints, that's nearly 7 casts per kill, meaning your 7th cast is expected to kill the Wyrm if you don't miss. Now, add 4 points of damage onto each of the first 6 hits. This adds up to 24, barely half of the expected average hit. This won't usually save you a cast. In other words, maybe once every few kills, you'll save one cast, but not many. Meanwhile, you have to remember that kill speed is only one of the factors affecting the kills / hour rate. Firstly, remember that after every kill, you need to retrieve the loot, run to the nearest Strykewyrm, stomp, and wait for the animation to end. When each kill only takes 7 casts on average, the 5 or so seconds spent between kills composes a significant amount of the time you spend at Strykewyrms. Finally, we have a living example of the Fire Cape effect at Kuradel's Dungeon in the Ferocious Ring. Like I said, I've done quite a bit of slayer since the Strykewyrms have been released, and I've noticed that weapons that are slow and hard hitting don't really benefit much from the Ferocious Ring. The weapon that indisputably benefits the most is the Dragon Claws, with the special attack inflicting an additional 16 damage, at ~2 seconds per attack. Weapons like the Abyssal Whip improve significantly, but when I slayed side-by-side with a friend using an Armadyl Godsword, the gap between us was noticeably larger than it is normally (Whip normally outperforms Armadyl Godsword during Slayer, but in this case, the improvement was even more visible). Armadyl Godsword attacks roughly 20 times per minute, the same speed as general combat spell-casting. Of course, if the +4 damage is doubled, that changes the story entirely, as +8 damage is much more significant, especially with the Strykewyrms having high hitpoints. Which is my complaint, Jagex isn't very clear about this coming update at all. They've held back on it, probably waiting for more feedback, but how can we give accurate feedback without knowing the specifics? Namely, how many slayer points will it cost? I've gone from 88 to 93 Slayer since Strykewyrms were released and earned over 2.5K points... and this is despite other things going on in my life (granted, I've been told by many that the way I slay results in much faster points and XP). Is this an ability to kill Strykewyrms without a Fire Cape, or an ability to get Strykewyrm tasks and anyone can kill them without the Fire Cape? Is the +4 damage doubled? Etc. Would it have killed them to tell us how many points they were thinking it would cost? Or whether those with Fire Capes need to pay to kill the Ice Strykewyrms capeless? I dunno how this turned into about capes and damage, but you people have seriously too much time on your hands to be going through all this. I'm an RS gamer, by definition I have too much time on my hands anyways back to the numbers. looting and stomping so yes it takes time to loot and stomp lets say i can kill 200 wyrms in 1 hour with a soul wars cape ignoring time spent looting, and it would take me an additional 10 minutes to loot lets say i can kill 200 wyrms in 55 mins with a fire cape ignoring time spent looting, and it would take me an additional 10 minuets to loot 200 wyrms (an equal number of wyrms) these are independent variables even if i factor them in, I still save 5 minutes at the cost of 10k gp in prayer potions no effect on calculations, factor was ignored on purpose im not sure what you're getting at about the comment with +24 damage per kill, and that not being significant because that's not even a single hit even if it's not a single hit, it's a +10% bonus. 10% is significant, you cant look at things qualitatively and say that they're only single hits or not you also mentioned the +4 damage having different effects on different types of weapons But we're talking about fire surge exclusively. What would weapon types factor into our analysis if we're only looking at magic? All spells cast as the same rate, and there are no dragon claws of magic. so once again, all variables you mentioned were ignored deliberately. one not so trivial variable I ignored is that Knock-out hit loss If the wyrm only has 10 hp left, and I hit a 30, 20 damage is lost the higher the average hit, the more "knock out loss" can be expected per kill. so in that sense +4 damage would contribute to the kill rate less than 10% but assuming it's a +10% boost in kill rate, i would only need to earn 120k gp/hour to justify it 120k gp/hour is a very small number, all major variables have been accounted for of course my 200 kills per hour value could have been incorrect in the first place (I am not 93 slayer, I just listen to what people tell me) assuming that is correct, the results seem pretty clear. if the kill rate is actually less than 200 kills per hour, then a +10% boost in kill rate is more substantial, and the fire cape becomes EVEN MORE justifiable by linear extrapolation, if the kill rate is actually 400 kills per hour, then i would need to earn ~ 240k gp/hour to justify a fire cape STILL A VERY SMALL INCOME from the looks of it you would need a kill rate on the order of ~ 1k ice wyrms per hour to justify using a soul wars cape over a firecape are we done now?

did jagex state that specifically somewhere? Even if they didn't, that's still a reasonable claim. Just curious

You have it all wrong. The compromise will not make the player spend slayer points to buy a task from the master slayer. It will buy the ability to get ice Strykewyrms as a random task - adding it to the list of possible task (much like completing a quest sometimes adds a slayer monster to your list). This is part of why I hate this, Jagex's proposed compromise is very ambiguous and leaves a lot of room for interpretation... Also, I reached 93 Slayer last night, and during my rush towards it, I completed 4 Jad tasks (with the proper set up, despite my poor reflexes and lousy connection I'm currently 5-0 against Jad with five Fire Capes). However, if the +4 damage isn't doubled by Fire magic, I don't think I'll use the Fire Cape there. Fire Cape is +1 Magic, +2 Prayer Ardougne Cloak is +6 Magic, +6 Prayer Guthix / Zamorak / Saradomin Capes are +10 Magic Red / Blue Capes are +12 Prayer The best way of killing them so far is to pray and use magic. When your max hit with Fire Surge is already 86, adding another 4 points doesn't at all justify sacrificing up to +10 prayer and/or up to +10 magic attack. so max hit with fire surge is about 90 damage at the moment average damage of 45 per hit +4 would boost it by about 10% to 49 +10 magic i don't consider worth it, because from what i hear, fire surge hits the wyrms pretty accurately as it is so in staff of light and other gear the prayer bonus is +22 with soul wars cape +12 with fire cape fire cape drains 1.4x slower soul wars cape drains 1.7x slower your kill rate is upped by about 10% due to the fire cape, so the fire cape is more like 1.5x if you're counting prayer consumed per kill so anyways at +0 prayer, you lose 1 ppoint per 3 seconds using pro mage so lets say it takes an hour to slay 200 ice wyrms with a soul wars cape 3600/3/1.7 = 700 prayer points for 200 kills in an hour with soul wars cape 3600/3/1.5 = 860 prayer points for 220 kills in an hour with a firecape OR 780 prayer points for 200 kills in 55 minutes so 80 extra prayer points for 200 kills = ~2.5 doses of prayer potion = 10k gp 10k gp extra cost to save yourself 5 minutes you'd have to make over 120k gp/hour in order to justify using a fire cape over a soul wars cape @ ice wyrms ASSUMING YOU ONLY GET +4 DAMAGE BONUS like you stated fire cape > soul wars cape

Jagex has all but confirmed that there will be a F2P boss...maybe they have already confirmed it... Either way, it will be something good for F2P but I'm sure Jagex will make it fair for F2P but not able to be overused in P2P. Maybe something like a team fightcaves with a boss like Jad at the end. But the cave looks different in members then in F2P. Like, first wave in F2P is lvl 40 skeletons and in P2P its lvl 80 skeles... Judging by it's location in the wilderness I think it will be F2P as well. Because if it was P2P I think Jagex would have put it deeper into the wildy, more like the deep wilderness....slightly secluded from F2P. the content Q/A specifically stated that there will be multiple F2P bosses i think the new lands area is a viable place to put them all

"i've been away update me" threads are always a load of fun we got a DND called familiarization 40 minutes of 3x charm drops once a week after you complete a short 5-10 minute minigame new skill is set to release vaguely in the middle of the year (so like 4 months from now?) we got a giant piece of land east of the wilderness. Lots of speculation on what it might be, nobody is sure related to this piece of land was a "strange power emote" that hit a month before. everybody in RS performed an emote simultaneously where they were "overwhelmed by a strange power" the source of the strange power is that piece of land lots of content Q/A's recently. F2P bosses, high lvl dungeons, small construction update, and smithing update confirmed for the future amongst other things puro puro update most recently, new impling jars, and more xp for catching them, and no need for butterfly nets to catch them out of puro puro dark bows are going to become recolorable

wait wut? statuettes update caused alot of inflation, which affects the prices of EVERYTHING. That's the only reason it caused the economy to go on the fritz Dragon bolts(e) won't affect the prices of anything but bolts. Maybe it will mean more people will hunt armadyl because dragon botls(e) are effective there or maybe more people will range PK due to cheaper dragon bolt(e) prices but i hardly expect to see a significant change in the economy beyond anything with a single degree of separation from dragon bolts(e) if anything, the GP potentially removed from the bannings after the players managed to sell off some of their dragon bolts(e), could help counteract inflation edit: nevermind, my bad, u said onyx bolts (e)