Sir_Kurity

We will see... Personally i think its alright. The spec doesnt seem that overpowered, and you need 78 attack to weild it (so no ridiculously low level people with korasi's).

Everyone has satisfaction when grinding to reach a specific goal. Even me. However, EXCESSIVE grinding (50+ hours) with no goal in sight is not good game design. Then don't do the quest when/if it comes out. The fact is, a lot of people plan on getting 99 in everything And the fact is, some people don't plan on getting 99 in everything, and want the fun without the grind. When low requirement content is released, all players have access to it, grinders and non grinders alike. When high requirement content is released, the grinders have acesss to it, the others don't have access to it unless they excessively grind skill A.

I loled :thumbsup:

Quests can and should progress in difficulty, but do high requirements actually add anything to the game? As far as im concerned, any quest requirement which requires an excessive amount of grind (excessive is kinda based on how long/good the quest is), doesn't actually add anything to the game, and only really makes high levels happy while saying screw you to everyone else. As for boss fights taking no skill, well that could really be a problem with bosses. If your only solution to that is to force people into grinding a skill into the high 90's in order to add "difficulty" then thats not the right way to go about it. I for one would have more fun in a quest if i beat a boss with reflexes and skill, not with grinding which apparently makes the quest "harder".

Its funny because in all these pages, i havent seen an argument as to how these requirements actually make the game more fun. But hey, if the games more about grinding than about fun to you, all power to you.

And this.

Why not? Some people play quests for the fun believe it or not. Yea but hes not gonna see these posts anyway. Yea, you were never winning anyway, good luck.

Whos mod mark and why is he relevant? Also posting it on the RSOF is probably even more useless, because all arguments will be drowned under a torrent of flaming (you know, even more so than here, if thats even possible). If opposing excessive grind which is anything but fun makes me a whiny player, i guess thats what i am. More realistically, im a player that actually wants people to have fun in a game.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11009379 Because you actually get a high from completely ignoring information opposing your view. In other words, these gigantic flame wars we are having are really just our ways of getting really high. :thumbsup:

Yea, im arguing against it because i feel it won't improve the game in any way other than making high levels feel special while excluding content from lower leveled players. When bad things are inevitable, you can either bend over and take it, or you can argue against it. I'm arguing against it.

Not the best example, but the point being that there are multiple ways to get to the same goal, you can either grit your teeth and get through via perseverence or another method (preferably there should be multiple methods based on skill level). Or get through by grinding agility to the high 60's and doing the quest without a problem. I'm pretty sure youve got your definition of "everyone" completely out of whack, content with low requirements IS for everyone. Content with excessive requirements is exclusive to high level players Say, John, has 97 fishing. If a quest comes out with a 97 fishing requirement. He goes and does the quest, has fun, and comes out with a cool new 97-fishing harpoon that helps him with fishing. If the same quest instead came out with a 50 fishing requirement. He goes and does the quest, has the same amount of fun, and again comes out with cool 97 fishing harpoon again. Whats the difference between these two scenarios? John still has the same amount of fun either way. He still gets a reward thats exclusive to his high fishing level. The only difference is, scenario one is exclusive to him and other extremely high level fishers, while scenario two has the quest avaliable to a much vaster amount of players, and even then does not require as excessive a grind if a player does not have the requirement. As i said before... Theres a difference between doing a variety of skills, quests, and pking for 200 hours of play. And staring at your fisherman for 200 hours while repeating the same couple of mouse movements over and over again.

97 fishing requires 10 million XP. At 50k XP an hour, which is a reasonable estimate, it takes 200 hours. I want there to be content for all levels, high and low, but for it NOT to require excessive grind. I love how you didn't mention reflexes on hard boss fights. Tz-Tok-Jad is a hard piece of content (admittedly, its significantly easier now, but its a few years old so what can you do). There have been multiple guides on how to do the fight caves. But despite this, there are still near maxed players who can't get a firecape for whatever reason, but at same time, there have been level ~50-60's with firecapes. Tz-Tok-Jad is based just as much on the skill of the player as on the "skill" of the character, and in my opinion, is a good piece of content for this reason. Underground pass springs to mind. And it isnt all about grinding for 200 hours like you seem to think, whats your point here?

200 hour grind requirements are not the way to make high level content, high level content should be high level in that its hard, not that it requires an extreme tolerance to boredom. And they most definately do not make the game any more fun. (for low levels or high levels alike). O.O (Using my arguments against me, i like it, only problem is it makes no sense) You don't feel special because everyone has access to a quest. You have the fun from the quest, and in a game, thats what should matter.

I'm pretty sure ive been over this. I'm all for elite content, im not for elite requirements. Corp is for high level players, but it does not have excessive requirements. Again, im arguing the exact opposite, i want content that the majority have access to. Your the one being selfish, demanding quests that only extremely high level (insert skill here), players can access.

I'm pretty sure ive been over this. 200 hour grind requirements do not equal difficult quest. Its funny, because im arguing the exact opposite. Quests should be accessible to the majority without unduely excessive grind. If the only way for you to continue this argument is to interpret my words to somehow mean the opposite of what im actually saying, then i'm afraid this argument isnt going to go anywhere.

... You've acknowledged it as impossible to prove. If you need an incentive, its obviously not that fun on its own. Thus your forcing yourself through something thats NOT fun, in order to do somethat is IS fun. Theres no reason the reward can't require 97 fishing. And the quest require say 50 fishing (IE. All fired up). Its an example. I'm pretty sure ive been though this before. I'm opposing the grind, not the specific requirement, be it 90+ mining, fishing, slayer, cooking, RC, etc. (admittedly, some of these are alot less grindy than fishing, but thats not the point here).

Yes, its a stunning similarity to you and your pro-efficiency buddys bashing the author. Its really just a group of people against another group of people, i'm not seeing the problem here.

I generally just keep XP share on now, because the only thing it really shares me is prayer XP (Which im planning to get loads of anyway :))

Theres really a simple explanation here. 1. People hate pures. 2. Pures have XP share off (generally). 3. Pures get kicked. Believe me, i've been there (its a big reason why i quit dungeoneering).

Correction, theres currently a noticable correlation between requirements of quest and difficulty. Difficult quests can be made without excessive requirements, and it would be the exact same quest, requirements or no. Excessive requirements don't actually add to difficulty of the quest in any way. Though, overcoming the hours of boredom thrown on beforehand may be the issue here. (Grind is not the best way to add difficulty, as i've already discussed). I see no reason why the rewards can't have high requirements. I.E all fired up. And frankly im bored of having to grind to do new quests. If you actually enjoy the skill, you don't need the quest requirement to encourage you to skill, you will do it anyway. If you don't enjoy the skill, then all the requirements are doing is forcing you through something you don't like. I can always hope that jagex doesn't get to this point just to please high levels.

Thats the movie being fun, not the game, but aside from that. Watching a movie on a tiny screen spamming the 5 key while responding to calls of "R U A BOTA?" really kills with the immersion. Point is, i consider level 80 a fairly high skill, and it does take quite a while to get.

Other ways require more money or higher levels generally.

How many of those are active, and how many active players are there right now. If more than 30% active players have over 80 magic, i'll concede that its average. (seeing as how thats quite hard to argue without jagex data...) Leveling magic from 1-80 takes 2 mill experience, which with alching is ~25-30 hours not including the money required. And this is with upmost attention (you can't even AFK mage like you can with fishing).

80 doesnt seem that average to me. In my opinion its quite high.

Gaining some levels with maybe a couple of hours of work in order to do a quest is different from fishing for 200 hours for a quest requirement. Ive said it once and i'll say it again, i don't mind some grind, i do mind excessive grind. Thats not the point here, some people complain about low requirements and want much higher requiements, and im arguing against it. Thats a decent compromise, but only if it is in a single skill, and maybe in single increments. Firstly, lets look at the latest grandmaster quest, requireing 4 skills over the 70 range. Now this isnt really getting to the excessive part, but they are pretty high requirements. Now lets think about what a future elite quest might look like, if it slowly worked its way up to the 95 range, needing 4 skills at 95. The next quest may need 4 skills at 97, it looks like a small increment but... There is almost 2 million XP between 95-97. Which is 8 mill in a total of 4 skills. Which at say, 100k average experience per hour (more for things like herblore, but you have to take money into consideration, less for things like fishing), is still 80 hours for a single quest. Is that too much? I don't know. But i personally don't think it will improve the game to have those requirements there.