PereGrin

If you got runners bringing you ess, I think it would be around ~80-90k/h. I am not sure about how much it would cost/profit. I would assume that zmi at 99 rc would yield maybe 1.5-2x. I am not too sure about the distribution of runes you get, but say you traded all the runes you kept the death, blood, and soul runes, and you traded the runner 24 noted ess + the rest of the runes. They would get all the chaos, cosmic, nature, astral, and the rest as profit, and break even on the rest as they would need to run 24 ess to you each time. Then, maybe ever few hours, you head to the bank to grab some cash, and pay your runners like ~1mil for 3 hours running or something. That would be about on par with other lower level moneymakers such as cave slime and aviansies.

People are botting...chickens? :shock: I guess if you can play for infinity time, you actually get enough feathers to be worth something.

Just for the record, I considered pointing out the fallaciousness of his arguments too. lol. I only did it because he tried to use his "knowledge" of fallacies to escape from responding to me.

I'm not too sure about that. Agility is pretty click intensive as well. You were doing that at the Nature Altar right? Zmi is considerably faster. You can already get 65k/h on your own there. So runners could potentially bump it up to about ~80k/hour. Going by the same increase as you had over Grhaaking nature runes, which is around 30k/h I think.

Might as well give +9001 combat levels for having a method of teleportation with you. Since it makes it far more difficult to die. Nice how you said "lets keep it melee for now" and then in the next sentance immediately brought magic and range into it to help your numbers out. Your lack of knowledge about how combat bonuses work and how DPS is calculated means that the numbers and "bias" phrases you used to prove you point were made up completely on the spot and have no hope of being accurate. You also use ratios in whatever "calculations" you made without stating what the ratio was between.

How do you reckon that one? :unsure: Because they were both removed for the same reason. Hypothetically, say Jagex put the Wilderness back in in 13 days. But they left the trade system and GE as it is now. Why would this not make any sense? [hide=My answer] It would not make any sense because they were both removed for the same reason. They removed both the Wilderness and Free Trade to combat RWT. They removed Free Trade so that players could not just hand each other massive sums of cash or items without receiving a form of payment equal to the value of the items being traded. So gold farmers could not walk up to a paying customer and put 10mil cash up, hit accept twice, and walk away, thus leaving the "customer" 10mil richer in game and roughly ~$50.00 poorer in real life. The removed the Wilderness so that a goldfarmer could not carry 10mil + 3gp with him in his inventory, and walk out into the wilderness and let the "customer" kill him and loot his deathpile of exactly 10mil coins and one bones. This would leave the "customer" 10mil richer in game and roughly ~$50.00 poorer in real life. Now, if Jagex reintroduced the Wilderness, they would essentially be saying. "We feel that we can now combat RWT with new detection systems and cool gadgets. Because RWT and botting are no longer hard to deal with issues, we will reinstitute the old Wilderness with all the old rules. All of the reasons we gave you for the removal of the Wilderness have been rendered moot (irrelevant)." All of a sudden, everything mentioned in the paragraph about the Wilderness above becomes possible again. If Jagex were to do this, some players would probably say something like: "Hey! Wait just a second! You said all the old reasons you gave us for the removal of the Wilderness don't matter anymore. Well, you gave us the exact same reasons for the removal of Free Trade. How come we don't get Free Trade back? Do the reasons matter when they are about Free Trade, but don't matter when they are about the Wilderness? If so, that doesn't make any sense!" And they would be right. There would be no reason for Jagex to keep Free Trade out of the game (while bringing back the Wilderness) besides the impulsive "Because we can!" The same principle applies in the other direction as well. [/hide] Doing something like this would give a much deeper meaning to the phrase "You got Jagex'd" though. :P Your logic is circular and therefore flawed. Sure, both were removed for purportedly "the same reason", but they are not necessarily inter-dependent. Unless you can provide an actual valid reason that demonstrates how they are completely and utterly inter-dependent, then there is no reason whatsoever why both options had to be included in the same poll. :P You're argument is flawed because you make irrational and untrue claims. My post contains no circular reasoning. Your implication that they were not removed for the same reasons without backing up that statement is also a mistake. I wonder if you were actually around at that time? They were removed for exactly the same reasons. Anyone paying attention during this time can affirm this. Also, you are the one commiting the logical fallacy by asking me to provide proof. You wish to change the status quo, but you have yet to actually provide a reason why it should be changed. You also commit the Appeal to Probability Fallacy by continuing to claim that Jagex rigged the vote. You also commit the Argument from Fallacy. In addition, your posts seem to be themed with the Is-Ought Problem. Making the claim that what I say is untrue does not refute it. Your belief that I am wrong does not equate to the falsehood of my argument. Continually claiming I am wrong without backing your claims up with logic and proof merely renders your posts unsubstantive and repetitive. (e.g. continually saying "But you're wrong." is not a valid proof of your position) However, because your posts are themed with the Is-Ought Problem, I believe that there is a very good chance you are merely a troll.

:blink: lots of words... I think I managed to understand it. Was it something like this? [hide] Now this is the story all about how My life got flipped, turned upside down And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel-Air In West Philadelfia born and raised On the playground where I spent most of my days Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school When a couple of guys said 'we're up in no good' Started making trouble in my neighbourhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared And said 'you're moving with your aunt and uncle in Bel-Air' I begged and pleaded with her the other day But she packed my suitcase and sent me on my way She gave me a kissin' and she gave me my ticket I put my walkman on and said I might as well kick it First class, yo this is bad, Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass Is this what the people of Bel-Air livin' like, Hmm this might be alright! I whistled for a cab and when it came near the Licensplate said 'Fresh' and had a dice in the mirror If anything I could say that this cab was rare But I thought now forget it, yo home to Bel-Air I pulled up to a house about seven or eight And I yelled to the cabby 'Yo, home smell you later' Looked at my kingdom I was finally there To settle my throne as the prince of Bel-Air [/hide]

Aside from the trolling, I thought the T-shirts were slightly strange to do. But tbh, I still want to wear a shirt that says "I BROUGHT THE WILDERNESS BACK!!!!" on it anyway. Just cause...........

You was someone? Lol lysdexics tfw <--been waiting forever to say that somewhere, sry ;) OT: Anyone think red will actually hit GE price? Friend is still trying to get one I think.

^ this Also found it hilarious that people were proposing new rules for the Old Wilderness and trying to answer questions. Read the Referendum guys, its the Old Wilderness, not some new broken crappy copy that doesn't work. And answering questions about what Jagex is going to do in the future? Lol, when did those people become JMods?

Wow guys. I go to burst rock lobsters for a few hours, and when I get back 3 pages of trolling to sort through for the legit posts. >.< [hide] hidden stuff goes here [/hide] Those are hide tags. Please use them. That was not a cool quote chain.

I remember quite a while ago a list of the first 2k players on runescape was posted. I remember some controversy about hacked accounts resulting. Is their any substance to this rumor? :unsure:

What D&D's will you be moving out of the wilderness? Will Penguins and Clue scrolls both be moved from the Wilderness? How about the Mage Arena? Green Dragons? Will the Wilderness Volcano Bank remain? Will the Boneyard be coming back? please say yes, please say yes... Will Extremes and Ovls be usuable in Dangerous PVP situations similiar to the way Chaotics and Curses now are? Will Revenants drop the PVP items (Vesta, Statius, etc.)? What will happen to the Frozen Fortress?

Miss solo divines to get lsp? Hax.

I wish I had the cash to buy stuff :( I haven't been able to play enough to make much back.

Brainymidget and Grimy Bunyip have both done extensive work with Google Docs. Brainymidget has a Google Docs guide in the Archive of Wisdom on these forums that you might want to check out. EDIT: Here is the guide. http://forum.tip.it/topic/220194-how-to-use-google-docs-to-extract-ge-prices-by-brainymidget/page__hl__brainymidget

How do you reckon that one? :unsure: Because they were both removed for the same reason. Hypothetically, say Jagex put the Wilderness back in in 13 days. But they left the trade system and GE as it is now. Why would this not make any sense? [hide=My answer] It would not make any sense because they were both removed for the same reason. They removed both the Wilderness and Free Trade to combat RWT. They removed Free Trade so that players could not just hand each other massive sums of cash or items without receiving a form of payment equal to the value of the items being traded. So gold farmers could not walk up to a paying customer and put 10mil cash up, hit accept twice, and walk away, thus leaving the "customer" 10mil richer in game and roughly ~$50.00 poorer in real life. The removed the Wilderness so that a goldfarmer could not carry 10mil + 3gp with him in his inventory, and walk out into the wilderness and let the "customer" kill him and loot his deathpile of exactly 10mil coins and one bones. This would leave the "customer" 10mil richer in game and roughly ~$50.00 poorer in real life. Now, if Jagex reintroduced the Wilderness, they would essentially be saying. "We feel that we can now combat RWT with new detection systems and cool gadgets. Because RWT and botting are no longer hard to deal with issues, we will reinstitute the old Wilderness with all the old rules. All of the reasons we gave you for the removal of the Wilderness have been rendered moot (irrelevant)." All of a sudden, everything mentioned in the paragraph about the Wilderness above becomes possible again. If Jagex were to do this, some players would probably say something like: "Hey! Wait just a second! You said all the old reasons you gave us for the removal of the Wilderness don't matter anymore. Well, you gave us the exact same reasons for the removal of Free Trade. How come we don't get Free Trade back? Do the reasons matter when they are about Free Trade, but don't matter when they are about the Wilderness? If so, that doesn't make any sense!" And they would be right. There would be no reason for Jagex to keep Free Trade out of the game (while bringing back the Wilderness) besides the impulsive "Because we can!" The same principle applies in the other direction as well. [/hide] Doing something like this would give a much deeper meaning to the phrase "You got Jagex'd" though. :P

I would like to see this on a 24h base, just calculated twice with 24h between it. Just to see how much hours they 'lose' or gain per day I'm not quite sure what you mean but I wanted to do a spreadsheet that auto-updated everyone's remaining hours but google spreadsheets has a limit of how many import functions you can have on each spreadsheet. There might be a way around it by linking multiple spreadsheets but I don't care enough to research if and how it can be done. well, due to my bad english, ill ask it like this: Could you pls post this sheet, with a day between it=P so i can see if they go (on a 24h base) can go from, (like suomi) from 10918 hours left, to 10900 hours left (18h from 24h) so, could you post this sheet updated with 24h between the 2 updated posts? :P sorry for being so, vague (For the NL People: misschien kan een nederlander me helpen lol, sorry dat ik zo onduidelijk ben XD) This is based on a 24 hour time frame. I didn't factor in x amount of hours for anything.[/hide] I think he means more like Player Current Hours Remaining Hours From Last Update Hours Gained Since Last Update Suomi 10918 Time Suomi Had left Yesterday Hours Suomi gained since yesterday Skiller 13761 Zarfot 13766 Dapledo 14052 Lan 14396 Skiller 703 14397 Kingduffy 14622 Elvis 14719 Elias 15116 Tezz 15502 Telmomarques 15814 Drumgun 15961 Jdelacroix 16183 Green098 16195 Gertjaars 16321 ErwJ 16671 Paperbag 16899 This would let us see the how far each player advances each day. So we can see who is moving toward 200m in all skills at the greatest rate. So like today, Suomi could have 10918 hours left. But tomorrow, he might be only have 10906 hours left. Which would show that he advanced 12 hours of skilling time since yesterday.

Yup, pretty much. Based on the sample there you'd be getting less than 120k con xp per every THOUSAND imps you loot. Over 8300 imps per 1m xp, have fun with that, whoever thinks it's realistic at all to try. :rolleyes: That's exactly what I'm looking for... hard facts. The 3m number is definitely not factoring in opening jars. I'll go back to mahogany tables @ 750k/h. I'll listen to your one poorly conveyed point regarding zombie jars, miracleman, but it definitely won't be based on anything you or Paperbag said. The thing with the zombie impling jars is that it does not require any level to do, and the BXPW did affect them. Someone on these forums used them to train construction. I think the picture is on this thread at least twice, back when Drumgun started posting. So if you wanted to make the most of your xp modifier for construction xp, using the implings to get long bones and curved bones while prepping and then cashing them all as fast as possible allowed you go gain massive Construction XP in a very short time frame, and left most of the bonus modifier open to do other things such as herblore, and then summoning.

So you will not read Hayek's book, even though he is a well respected commentator of his time, and his book is still very popular today? You would rather ignore some of the smartest people of our time just because you would rather troll? Also, Yes, Poland. As in this place. http://www.cs.montana.edu/angryk/imgs/Pl_map.gif You know, the place that Germany invaded on September 1st, 1939. The decision that the German government (Hitler) made to invade Poland and thus start WWII. Germany didn't have to invade Poland, they chose to. BreakingInvading Poland on September 1st 1989 started WWII. If Germany hadn't started WWII, then they obviously would not have lost it. I never said they lost cause of economic reasons. Germany lost because they pulled the USA into the war from the West, and Russia in from the East. Then they overextended their lines, Russian winter hit, and America kicked them out of France. You are the one that just said You will find nothing like that in anywhere in my posts. I have constantly said the war was one of the very bad decisions that Germany made. Stop putting words into my mouth please. You may post whatever you want. It has become apparent that you do not know very much at all about this period of history, and are just making up things that you think sound good. You need to stop claiming I am saying things I am not and read my posts to actually figure out what I truly am saying. I read your entire post through at least 6 times before replying. Back to OT lolz, sorry guys history is fun I read somewhere that they were going to institute old shops where they items where all items were visible to everyone. Not sure if this means infinite stock though. I hope it does. Or at least it better mean a lot of stock. Otherwise, it might be impossible to buy anything worthwhile from the shops. (e.g. bronze knives, some runes, eye of newts, vials, that food shop in the warrior guild). At least the General Store will actually be a general store again though.

Most people on here realize that. But it is also another sort of thing that happens is people discuss setting records, which only require max attention in short bursts. And we like to talk about max possible xp/h just for entertainment while we wait for langer's awesome weekly updates. Gives us something to do, and keeps this thread on the front page ;) For most long term calculations, I think the general numbers are more like 60k/h rc, 65k/h agility, or stuff like that which is below the theoretical max. What would the smartest way for con be? Oak dungeon doors, Mahog Tables? Something else entirely? Demonic thrones :twisted:? (costs like 4bil, but only takes like a day I think, lol) @Arcane, I think the thing with zombie implings is you might possibly spend more time looting the jars then you would turning in the bones. So looting time included (and it should be) it slows down the xp rate by a bunch and still costs quite a bit. 15h for 200M but cost is 185B Yeah.....IDK where I got 4bil from lol. I should have caught that. Brain is so tired from classes today >.<

Well, if you are going to be killing frost dragons some for money for turmoil, why not just kill frost dragons for bones for turmoil? You would need like ~11k or so, right?

Most people on here realize that. But it is also another sort of thing that happens is people discuss setting records, which only require max attention in short bursts. And we like to talk about max possible xp/h just for entertainment while we wait for langer's awesome weekly updates. Gives us something to do, and keeps this thread on the front page ;) For most long term calculations, I think the general numbers are more like 60k/h rc, 65k/h agility, or stuff like that which is below the theoretical max. What would the smartest way for con be? Oak dungeon doors, Mahog Tables? Something else entirely? Demonic thrones :twisted:? (costs like 4bil, but only takes like a day I think, lol) @Arcane, I think the thing with zombie implings is you might possibly spend more time looting the jars then you would turning in the bones. So looting time included (and it should be) it slows down the xp rate by a bunch and still costs quite a bit.

You missed the point I was making about Germany. Your entire paragraph about Germany basically agrees with what I said. The state Germany was in in 1945 was due to decisions they made in the 1930s. If they hadn't chosen to invade Poland in 1939, they would not have started WWII, which means the would not have lost WWII. In 1945, West Germany got a new government and started doing much better. That is what I said. They got to build from the ground up because their government (namely Hitler) ran them headlong into the ground. I am not comparing Germany before WWII and after WWII. I was giving you the reason that post-war Germany had such a bad economy. Look up the type of government Germany had during the 30s and 40-45. See how they ran the country. Now, look at the state the country was in in 1945. Every decision that put Germany where it was in 1945 was made by Germany's government from ~1930-45. Seriously, go read Hayek's book. He does a much better job explaining it. You also forget what I was responding to. Notice the insane trade restrictions he is proposing? Idk about you, but 10 battlestaves every 4 hours seems rather harsh. Insanely so. So I drew the parallel between this and Germany's government during the 30s and early 40s. Everything that Germany was in 1945, Germany's government from the 30s and early 40s was directly responsible. This means that Germany's government from ~1930-45 was to blame for Germany in 1945. It was their fault. It wasn't the fault of the 20s. It wasn't because they had a boom in the 70s. It wasn't because they changed government styles after 1945 and started doing better. It was because of the government Germany had from ~1930-45. This government was 100% responsible for the terrible economy that Germany had in 1945. If you were to go look up what the government of Germany was doing from 1930-45 (i.e. read The Road to Serfdom by F. A. Hayek), you will see what I am talking about. I don't know why you think climbing boots were a good idea. I mean, I could care less what they are worth on the GE. But giving them an alch value of nearly 4x what Dragon Boots alch for was plain stupidity. Boots made from Goat Wool and leather should not be alching for 45k. Dragon Boots alch for 12k, to give a frame of reference.

I think with farming, it would be better to put it as a per day number. So like 600k a day or something?