Sy_Accursed

On colour bots apparently as of this week there's some sort of filter that changes the colouring of everything just slightly every 400 seconds or so; which breaks many of the more basic colour based bots who are trying to use more precise colours to do more advanced tasks. Saw some rants about it as it was breaking some legitimate screen scraping based aids (eg like how DGS thingie does a screen scrape to get the map)

Jac was able to do it in under 2 weeks, mind you, with a lot of help. If the same group banded together and actually put a good deal of time and thought into it... The shoe'd be on the other foot. ;). There are ways to get their clients working again, and few people do know how to do this, it's just time until that information reaches the wrong hands. :P. Even so from what we've seen Jagex can legally obliterated these people AND with the bot nuke in place the bots will have to be far more intrusive to work thereby making them easier to detect and much easier to sue the ass off under DMCA etc. So its more a question of do they think its still worth it/are they dumb enough to risk it.

This still relies on you having 200m to begin with; which all my replies made pretty clear that IF YOU CAN afford Virtus then yes it is the better choice. If you only have say 15m, Virtus is not the better choice in terms of getting the task done as you'd spend waaaaaay longer making the cash pile for Virtus than just doing the task. Also its relies on the assumption (and math) that everyone uses the philosophy of flipping their armours etc back to cash straight away to make Virtus instantly cheaper opposed to those of us who buy armours etc that are useful with the intent to keep them until such a time as they are bettered or become useless which is what would make you spend less of gano in the end. Just differently ideologies on that point.

Whether you call it "investing" or "spending" you still need to have 200mil gp spare to do so compared to the 4mil or so to buy Gano. And given that, from what I am aware of, you should only really use Gano over Ahrims for Fight Caves its not like you're gonna be spending masses on repairing it so realistically the repairing factor is still gonna leave you a good 100mil+ better off than buying Virtus even after doing a heck of a lot of Jad tasks and repairs. Don't get me wrong, sure if you CAN get Virtus its certainly a wise choice, but for the more average non-loaded player Virtus is all but unobtainable and even with repair costs you'll probably spend less on Gando in the end.

They been saying that kinda crap since november and lol certain "legal complications"...perhaps the fact what you are doing is 100% illegal and you have suddenly seen that Jagex can and will utterly destroy you in court for a massive monetary settlement?

Apart from the reems and reems of things that become impossible (or so close to impossible that they are not viable to do) when you factor in computing power, system limitations etc. etc. What reems and reems? I think you underestimate how far computing has come. Most of the "close to impossible that they are not viable to do" things stem from certain very challenging mathematical problems. Sure, cracking AES-256 bit encryption is at the moment is extremely difficult and not reasonable to do, but that is not to say that mathematics and computing won't advance to the point where it does become a much more feasible problem to approach. It's logical and physical impossibilities like the halting problem and breaking quantum encryption that are things that computers should never be able to do. Talking from a RS perspective, I doubt there will be anything that Jagex can ever do that is 100% immune to being broken. Certainly things that are currently not viable do become viable with tech advances; however that does not mean they are viable NOW or under specific limiting conditions. eg kids in a bedroom trying to code a bot advanced enough to circumvent all of jagex's new measures is pushing towards being very unviable/impossible as seen by the fact two guys who ran a bot as a professional business couldn't even manage to fix theirs. Doesn't mean its not technically possible especially going forward as tech advances more, but it does mean it doesn't seem (as we stand) to be near impossible for the average bot maker. Another good example of limiting conditions would be that Met office computer hive that does something like 100 trillion calculations a second to make weather forecasts as accurate as possible that is certainly not viable or technically possible to do for anyone other than an organisation that can pump millions into setting such a massive system up; a home pc user certainly couldn't even come close.

You can either have 46% soak and 990 lp + brew (works out to about 1150) or 10% soak and 1390 lp + brew (works out to some 1620 lp iirc). With the latter having 9 more magic attack bonus. Say Jad will hit 1000. With the first option you're at 518 health. With the second option you're at 700 health. E.g. the difference isn't huge. You die in two bad hits all the same, you heal up at the same rate, it's just magic attack bonus versus investment required. So in short: If you have virtus, or 200m ish to spare you can use that for a very minor improvement; otherwise Gando is more than adequate for everyone who doesn't have hundreds of mils to spend for a very minor improvement.

Kinda debatable if you look from a purely meta-gaming view I don't think the robes were ever worth getting.

If you take that as you definition everything is "dying" from the exact moment of its creation as it has a finite lifespan and an inevitable end that it has begun moving towards; which in turn makes it a meaningless term to apply as it is just assumed everything is "dying" and being in a state of dying is not a negative and simply a norm.

Isn't swapping gando out for virtus kinda bad advice, as the whole point of gando is the extreme mage def + soak means u can 1 prayer jad and (unless i misremembered) virtus is worse for this and cannot afford the same safety when using only range prayer.

True though it is kinda a small window of use. After all at 75 u can pie to dorge which can do nicer xp rate. And failing tht its only 75-80 since at 80 u pie to gnome adv And any use of BA horn would obliterate it w/e method u do. And as Quy pointed out the op does have 95 agile so the overall message of my advice was right for his situation.

I'm not sure on numbers, but it is safe to say it is entirely ruined. The xp:hr rate was around equal to adv barb adv gnome region (sans ba horn) which is why it was decent. Given the level req and the new nerf it certainly doesn't beat or equal doing agility laps.

Yeah defence rating has no impact on Char; I took same damage (for each attack) in my failed attempt in Torags and my successful attempt where I went "naked" And I did totally miss it mentions knives in the main box, but I certainly concur a heavier emphasis is better; after all attack speed is king on Char. A dark bow special at attack speed one hits 808 808 so 1616 total Knives at 7 speed would do at least 3*808 (yeah i don't know the exact numbers for attack speeds, but I certainly know at 7 speed you get more than 2 attacks in compared to a 1 speed weapon) in the time before dark bow launched a 2nd shot.

I simply thought they'd do what they did in the past; do a huge bot-banning then simply forget about it and in words; not have the balls to file lawsuits. Thankfully, this time Jagex are seeing the entire thing out (or so it seems). I hope it continues. But they've been filing lawsuits and winning smaller cases for many years; their filling a case and seeing it through with more than "just words" is nothing new. They been doing it since like 07/08 atleast. This ones just a bigger deal as it was one of the main bot dev who had it setup more as an actual proper business AND Jagex actually won on all counts for a massive settlement; not just minor victories (eg they've been awarded control of the domain before but nothing in the court order to stop the defendants making a new domain) "you never a quit while you're ahead" The popular saying: "Always quit while you're ahead" comes to mind

The best way to deal with them is to skip the task. The fungal and grifoloo stuff in tht dungeon has bad drops and is bad xp; only worth doing tasks there once u get ganodermics

Apart from the reems and reems of things that become impossible (or so close to impossible that they are not viable to do) when you factor in computing power, system limitations etc. etc.

They can make as many bot as similar to ibot as they like, I'm happy for that to happen; considering the devs couldn't get it working again after the bot nuke. I'm more than happy for people to make as many non-functional bots as they like.

I can see them being convicted of "copyright and trademark infringement" and violation of the DCMA (although it seems like dodgy stuff), but fraud and abuse? How in the seventh circle of hell did they get charged with "fraud and abuse"? 1) It is fraud to sell a service/good you do not have the legal right to sell 2) Various elements of their advertising and claims can be seen as fraudulent. Eg 100% safe to use, Jagex won't be able to detect you are using it, Don't worry we will have the bot back up in a couple of weeks [post-bot nuke] so keep buying it. 3) I believe it is also classed as fraud to intentionally and knowingly go against the Terms & Conditions (as they are a form of legal contract)

Just because there are other means to do something doesn't mean removing an entire website that allows uses to share stuff and thus express themselves does not infringe upon your right to that expression in some way. Yes it is not totally annihilating your power to do such actions, but no-one said it was. And yes in the grand scheme of things its very much a 'first world problem' rather than a major humanitarian or third world crisis of human rights. Plus it does still hold interest as it does kinda go against previous precedent, in which the on-line service provider cannot be held liable for their users crimes (as long as they are actively trying to stop misuse) and setting a new precedent could still lead to future issues which do have greater impact upon freedoms. I don't see the point at all of the logic of trying to belittle or deride opinions (and for that matter the fact that it does indeed infringe freedom of expression in some ways) just because there are bigger, unrelated things happening in the world; by that reasoning we should never ever have an opinion or discuss anything at all other than the big global issues that have the biggest impact.

No-one at all on this thread is arguing that it infringes freedom of expression etc. because they can't get stuff for free illegally any more. They are arguing it because MU had many legal and legitimate uses outside of illegal content and they did make efforts to take down illegal content and under existing law fault and liability is supposed to lie with the user perpetrating the act; not the service provider whose terms they violated in doing so. These laws are in place specifically for online services because it is so free and open it is entirely impossible for any sort of hosting/sharing service to exist without someone abusing it with illegal materials.

It's hard a low blow by the bot developers the court ordered them to do that. Besides if the rsbot thing is anything to go by theyll offer an amnesty and maybe dole out some rollbacks, the only ones with any major concerned should be the re-sellers and the script devs as Jagex will likely take a less forgiving view on them and, as this shows, can take them to court and win.

That link of the court finding is epic! They pwned them for copyright infringment, Circumvention of Technological Measures Under theDigital Millennium Copyright Act, Trademark Infringement, Computer Fraud and Abuse and Tortious Interference with Contract. Makes you wonder what any of the other remaining bots talking their big game are gonna do? After seeing the big 2 go, one of them utterly raped by court order on like every possible angle Jagex could get them with AND forced to put loads of foolish kids in the shit with the details hand over; they must be thinking twice about their continued efforts! Especially since both the two who caved said they saw the error in what they did and how it damaged Jagex.

It is eroding the right to freedom of speech and free expression as while yes some USERS may of misused the site, the site itself was NOT doing anything illegal and nor were many of it users, but their right to exist within law has been crushed in the name of 'copyright infringement' and such hosting sites that are at the more iffy end of the spectrum are the first erosion of such rights that could lead to, if SOPA is passed, many sites such as youtube, facebook, twitter, wikipedia, anything with a forum, blogging services etc. being taken down for 'copyright infringement' of the few users thus utterly crushing the freedom of speech and freedom of expression and freedom to promote your start up business or brand. Which is the exact points I've previously contributed and explained on this thread and have perfect logic to them, as did my comparison in the context it was applied. Afterall it MU is just one upload site and not a big deal, what does it matter if the other sites are then closed down? And if they are all closed down what does it matter if some of the more obscure video websites are shut as they are in similar grey area? And then if other video sites went what does it matter that youtube is shut down as it has videos in dodgey areas? etc. Allowing the minor to just slide by as "no big deal" gives them grounds to argue for the next 'small step' and before you know it the 'small steps' have turned into something rather sinister and nasty that have done a whole lot of damage to your freedom on the internet. Edit: I must admit my line of logic has become rather void on this matter since this news has appeared: http://mashable.com/2012/01/20/sopa-is-dead-smith-pulls-bill/ Since without the looming badness of SOPA, this doesn't really act as a stepping stone so much any more.

If you read my original post I talked specifically about Nazi policies and how they slowly eroded away rights etc. thus creating the climate where by their horrendous policies could go unchallenged. I certainly did not draw a parallels between the entire series of Nazi history and their entire spectrum of actions, just 1 singular piece. What they did with policy etc. once in power and why they got into power are not strictly interlinked and I did not mentioned the later of why they got into power. I know perfectly well what I am talking about I studied Nazi Germany and the holocaust for GCSE History and then went on to study The Nazi Rise to power, the Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy (which shares some common ground) for my History A Level; I'm not in the habit of throwing out broad and general Nazi comparisons for no good reason and in this case the SPECIFIC element I compared is perfectly well grounded and entirely unrelated to anything you mentioned. But this is getting rather off-topic so I shall leave this point at this and move on; I'm hardly surprised at the reaction people rarely bother to pay attention to specifics when you mention the word Nazi and either write it off entirely or try to justify ignoring by trying to play intellectual one-up man-ship of listing off a few facts/events about it they do know about it (even when they are entirely unrelated to what you brought up and thus just proves they either did not read or are in fact foolish enough to try and dismiss a point due to facts you did not even remotely refer to) and say that people say Nazi's all the time and have no idea what they are talking about.

I already said I didn't agree with the shut down, so relax. Second, please do not make the comparison to the Nazi regime. We are and never will be ANYWHERE close to the oppression that the Nazi party used in Germany. Nazi comparisons are almost always ridiculous and inappropriate. My point was that the quote was too dramatic. And it is. I never said it will be anywhere close, but it is a perfectly legitimate comparison this kind of "minor" thing that you deem to be over dramatic to view as a major injustice is EXACTLY how they erode away rights which leads to the kind of situations nazi germany was; this isn't a universally political field but its still the same concept and SOPA/PIPA (which this links to and is a mere drop in the lake in comparison too) are pretty darn extreme policies which will extremely infringe freedom of speech and creative outlet and business start ups and the economics of some big industries among other things. I don't think its at all over-dramatic; I think you are vastly underplaying the importance of this event and while disagreeing with it are willing to look away and ignore the implications until its too late. A quote I find apt (thought I can't recall who said it) is "If you ignore the rain, you will never be ready for the flood." Meaning just because its a relatively small rain shower on its own does not mean you should look the other way and under play it as in the bigger picture it is a prelude to the flood.