Powerfrog

Good people = Steel titan + Claws + SoA? Because you can't really lose with those seeing as protect from summoning doesn't work and they're given -1000 defense :P

I like to give accurate estimates based on educated guesses instead of making vague useless blanket statements, so sue me. You got more kills because you probably got the first hit, there are a lot of variables but it is a FACT you will deal considerably more damage with maxed gear and thus get the majority of the kills. It's also a fact that you will average a lot more than flax at bandos as a maxed player even in the worst case scenario of being crashed. I was just using these examples as they're things i can prove that you were wrong about. I can't technically prove the other obvious stuff, but you can't disprove anything I've said. I'm the one spreading misinformation indeed. :rolleyes:

But when you choose to use dragon defender, you can't use goliaths ;) Dragon defender gives +25 stab, goliaths only give +14. Goliaths are obviously still better due to strength, but they are less accurate by a large margin.

You've pretty much just misinterpreted everything I've said. I mentioned claws as they are more effected by armour offensive boosts than primary weapons (Which are also significantly effected.) My lack of proof VS your lack of proof on something impossible to prove does not equate to you being correct. Let's look at the things that are provable that we disagreed on, shall we? "You can get a guy with Bandos Tassests, Karils Top (or Gano, or whatever people use there now), Dragon Boots, Fury and a DFS and a Fire Cape successfully crashing someone with Bandos, Steads, Imbued Rings, Tokhaar, the works. Of course they're not going to get every kill, but they will get pretty much the same amount as you do in the long run." No. No they will not. Not even close. "If someone is going to crash you at Bandos, whether you are in maxed gear or not, they're going to have claws and they're going to steal kills and they're going to slow you down and they're going to make Bandos as inefficient at picking flax." If they consistently allow you to get first hit, have terrible gear and levels, no spec rests, you will get over 95% of kills and their help will speed up kills, reduce use of supplies and thus give you greater profit. Even in the worst case scenario of them being maxed gear and managing to get first hit you will get over 30% of kills and make much more than you would at flax fields. (At which point you should just crash another world though, obviously) Ok we're done. 2-0. Thanks for playing. I've seen a few frustrated players like this that have hopped several times to maxed players end up attempting to crash me, but it's incredibly rare and only ever occurs at peak times. I imagine it would be even less likely in torva. My experiences are mostly based on off peak hour trips, so there may be more of an issue with crashing than I've portrayed if you play at those times. (But again, frosts and even glacors are also packed at these times)

Less people attempt to crash a maxed player in max strength gear than you think. (I've crashed before. If i see a guy in torva+tokhaar+cmaul I'll hop to find a noob or tank gear.) Also i wasn't exaggerating when i said 90%, in fact i was probably being a little conservative, you simply don't lose kills to anyone dumb enough to crash you. (You would lose more often to another maxed player, but most experienced maxed crashers are smart enough to find easier targets) As i said, the faster kill speed pays for the very few lost kills. Sometimes i'm not sure where you get your "statistics" from, but to be frank it sounds like horse shit. Anyone can crash anyone, especially at Bandos. You can get a guy with Bandos Tassests, Karils Top (or Gano, or whatever people use there now), Dragon Boots, Fury and a DFS and a Fire Cape successfully crashing someone with Bandos, Steads, Imbued Rings, Tokhaar, the works. Of course they're not going to get every kill, but they will get pretty much the same amount as you do in the long run. I don't understand how you can get away with posting misinformation so many times now, but i highly suggest that you stop making up these ridiculous figures in the future and actually do some research or test it yourself (and provide some god damn proof), before you post utter insanely ridiculous information. There is no way Bandos is going to be better GP/H than any of the aforementioned methods because it is simply to easy to get crashed UNLESS you're wearing Torva, CMaul with a Steel Titan. And let's face it, who's going to use Bandos for money making when they have a bank like that? I find it hilarious you berate me for misinformation then heavily underestimate how much of an effect maxed gear has over crappy gear when the majority of damage comes from claws. "Pretty much the same amount as you do in the long run" LOL It's not all about how you handle a crash, it's the fact you simply do not get crashed very often at all when you're in maxed gear. WHO CRASHES MAXED GEAR OTHER THAN COMPETITIVE PVP CLANS? I'm basing this all from personal experience (Of 1000+ solo graardor kills). The average person that crashes me is someone hugely unexperienced in crappy gear that lets me get the first hit. I do not get crashed by maxed players, it happened a lot as a lower level but has never happened since about 135 combat (at which point had max gear -torva) because that's what crashers do, pick on low leveled undergeared players while avoiding maxed players. Go try it yourself for a few 1000 kills before you blindly state that I'm wrong and demand impossible to obtain "proof". To shut you up and let this thread continue in the path it should I'll state that nothing i have said is 100% proven fact, it's all based on my experience. In my experience, bandos solo is better money than killing frost dragons. In their inexperience, omg there are 30 maxed crashers on every world just waiting for you and +78 strength claws are equal to +96 strength claws. :rolleyes: Edit: Kill stealers at frost dragons are much more of an issue than bandos crashers. :P

Less people attempt to crash a maxed player in max strength gear than you think. (I've crashed before. If i see a guy in torva+tokhaar+cmaul I'll hop to find a noob or tank gear.) Also i wasn't exaggerating when i said 90%, in fact i was probably being a little conservative, you simply don't lose kills to anyone dumb enough to crash you. (You would lose more often to another maxed player, but most experienced maxed crashers are smart enough to find easier targets) As i said, the faster kill speed pays for the very few lost kills.

Not really. First of all, i very very rarely ever get crashed in maxed strengths, sometimes a noob will log in from the corner, shit his pants and log out. (If i had torva it would be even less) and secondly, when i do get crashed, i get literally 90% of the kills (Due to max gear and more importantly, spec rests and getting first hit consistently because most crashers wait for you to tank because they're bad at runescape, or have worse ping as you're using your best world while they're hopping for a crash), the faster kill speed may actually be beneficial towards profit/hour over no crashers. I'd say crashers are a none issue at worst, a help at best. It seriously confuses me when people complain about this, I'd love to see how you actually fight bandos to lose to the average crasher.

Well 40 KPH is very easy to get with maxed stuff in 2 short trips using spec restores on both trips. That gives you 320 kills in the 8 hour period. That means both tassets and bcp need to be under 1/320 drop rate each. From personal experience i would say they are MILES lower, closer to 1/150 each. (1 big drop every 75 kills) the small drops and hilts easily pay for supplies and then some. Unless I've been very lucky (seems unlikely as it's based on 30+ big items and 1000s of kills) it should easily be above frosts. I just wish the drop rates had been proven so it would be easier to confidently assert.

Pretty sure a good bandos soloer would make more than frosts and probably even glacors.

You can get a skeleton champion scroll in a couple hours killing the level 11 skeletons in lummy catacombs. They have 107hp each, there are 20+ of them in a tight area, respawn almost instantly, have next to 0 defense, and you can cannon. Dragon darts are awesome for fast kills. (Rune knifes if you wanna splurge) Looking at your combat xp, I'm kinda amazed you haven't stumbled onto a champ scroll by coincidence yet, I'm 137 and have 5 of them without ever aiming for one.

If i were to kill dragons i would use chaos tunnels. You tele to varrock, bank at ge, hop under wall, run north a little, enter rift, 2 portals and you're at drags. Theres tons of bots and 4 fast spawning greens. With max melee you can quite easily crash every single green on any given world. Your stats are far too low to crash bots effectively, though. I'd personally just mine if i were you. Powerbank iron ore using the resource dungeon until 60. Then mine granite, dropping any that are not 5kg, and use home teles to bank. Then bank conc gold at 80. It's slow GP/hour but so is everything else you can do, and these are practically the fastest ways to train mining anyway so if you're gonna do it 1 day, why not today? Fishing rocktails with the fishing aura is also a good way, but it will take a while to reach the level needed to fish them.

Oh i didn't even read your guys comments. I was just responding to OP. Yeah, things may change in the future. But i live in the now.

Definitely get rigour before CCB for nexing, as Sy mentions, you'll get the tokens back so it's not a waste. Apparently jagex are going to give slower weapons better DPS in the beta, so maul sounds like a sure thing (It already has highest DPS on most high level bosses due to it's immense accuracy) If i were you, I'd get CSB and do some glacors. CS isn't worth getting imo, it's much more expensive to use than a SoL and it won't speed up kills by any significant amount. Literally 1 kill per hour more, 2 at most.

Wow. I never considered using my FoG tokens (I love that minigame, no idea why) on swordie gloves. That's awesome.

It's +7 strength -11 stab. Deflector wins EASILY.

I meant that the items are still usable until September. Claws for example, if you wanna do bandos you really have no alternative (AGS maybe, but that's worse, more expensive and also crashing) You're right that they could sell and then rebuy, if they're not gonna use them anyway. But i honestly can't see them crashing much lower.

Sell the spectral. Nothing to do with the crash, it's just rubbish. :P You should keep the rest though. The damage has already been done in terms of panic sales, the combat update isn't gonna happen for a long time and the items are still useful, plus we don't even know how the update is gonna effect the items. Bandos and fury - Surely the offensive bonuses will still apply with the new weapons. They're rare items so can't get much of a nerf if they are to be rebalanced. Claws - Probably gonna be nerfed pretty heavily. But it's already crashed hard, and jagex are trying to claim the claws will still be very powerful, which at worst will calm down panic sellers, at best will make them shoot up in price again once beta opens and we see if they're still powerful.

As a pker, i see this as potential to make pvp more skill oriented than luck. I also see it as potential to completely ruin pvp due to poor balance between damage and health. As a pvmer, meh, hope they give my rapier more of a buff than a nerf. As a money maker, OH SWEET JESUS ALL MY ITEMS ARE WORTH NOTHING WHY JAGEX WHY?!?

They'd have to be pretty significantly better to beat dagger with dragon defender. It also seems like flurry is a "don't freak out!" tool and will be worse than the godswords or chaotic abilities. If Flurry is anything like the current Puncture/Slice and Dice specials (multihit) then if claws have a higher strength rating than dagger + defender, wouldn't they be better to use? Yeah forget what i said, i thought the strength difference was much tighter (56 vs 40) Claws will be the best flurry, but again, i don't think flurry will be the best spec anymore, with chaotics in line to get them and the rapid attacking 2h abilities shown in the video.

They'd have to be pretty significantly better to beat dagger with dragon defender. It also seems like flurry is a "don't freak out!" tool and will be worse than the godswords or chaotic abilities. I'm personally interested to see how they will handle dharoks, i can't imagine it ever NOT being overpowered unless they simply remove it's current mechanic, which would be terrible. To make a slow weapon same dps as a fast weapon is to give the slow weapon an absolutely enormous max hit, meaning it's overpowered for KO power in pvp, thus impossible to do without ruining the game. Singled out BGS as it's currently the cheapest hilt and you need one to use the godsword. Derp.

Claws gonna suck. BGS may be worth buying for pvp use (As i understand it, it has the highest requirements other than chaotics, and is currently the most powerful none spec weapon) I'm kinda shocked they're removing weapon specials, they really were what made most weapons even worth acknowledging. Now it's going to be "this weapon has best dps, this weapon has best ko potential" EVERYTHING ELSE IS ALCH PRICE

It's actually cheaper than a chaotic in terms of recharge cost, so lol. Getting to 4th stage takes less than 10 minutes for 20 hours worth of combat, so that's barely even worth mentioning.

Using royal cbow is ~200k/hour loss with ava's. (Assuming runewiki is correct) Rune cbow with diamond bolts is ~100k/hour loss with ava's. Royal should easily beat rune for your solos in terms of kills per hour and trip.

Definitely not for testing purposes as the jmods hinted and joked about it. I'm guessing it's just something to do with the new combat level formula, i can't see any new combat skill that would give only 1 level. (Although with overloads now usable in the wildy, that may effect cb level?)

Dragon's do work. But they're not worth using, i think. I believe they work just like diamonds (when it effects, it's guaranteed hit) but the chance of spec is a lot lower, and of course the damage is a lot higher. Diamonds are probably better DPS (honestly don't know.) and a lot cheaper. Titans heal a LOT less than uni, so unless you can comfortably survive already i doubt they're worth using.