ISREAL63

They were mercenary extremest hired to fight the IDF when it boarded the ship as i previously stated there is no way for me to understand a terrorist mind When one wishes to be believed. Nobody looks for the source of a newspaper article and newspapers don't give away their sources The IDF doesn't need to release anything next time don't try running a naval blockaded or you will suffer the consequences Or they were running below decks when their prayers were interupted by the fighting. Their prayer were not interrupted by fighting because they started it please go by the facts and don't try to lie here is some evidence for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE The video above proves they provoked the violence not the IDF. They were certainly not unarmed, and peaceful protesters as a said the video proves it The IDF has a reason for not giving a source for all you know someone collaborated with Israel giving them the information

Yes please tell me how by me giving you the facts and you try twist it so it sounds something totally different. I am sorry i don't understand the mind of a terrorist . There is a video showing a group preparing weapons. As i said before i don't understand the mind of a terrorist. When do newspapers give away there sources? They were not stolen they were confiscated. The people aboard the ships were told they were entering a naval blockade and they kept on going so they forfeit they right once they kept on going the IDF acted and stopped them from entering. The IDF confiscated everything on the ships. That means that they could have done a hit and run. In present times martyr is to kill yourself and kill others while doing it or trying to at least. Why would the IDF give away it sources try thinking before you talk

The last time their was a country in the land of Israel it was controlled by the Jews 2000 years ago since then it was controlled by different empires including the Ottoman and British empires. The Arab population here didn't control Israel as a country but a district of a empire Israel gave all the land conquered in October 1956 back in March 1957 that is only a few months not years later. The Southern Lebanon conquered in 1982 and held to 2000 Israel held it as a buffer zone against terrorist and in 2006 the second Lebanon war proved Israel was right to control Southern Lebanon because terrorist used it as a base for there terrorism. The Golan Heights is a very strategic piece of land because The topography of the Golan serves as a natural blockade against any military attack from Syria. The Golan is essentially one high-altitude plateau that overlooks southern Syria and serves as an excellent vantage point for Israel to keep track of Syrian military movements. http://library.thinkquest.org/20176/suez.htm http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.2907269/k.7821/Strategic_Value_of_the_Golan_Heights.htm Lebanon did not try to eliminate the terrorist it just let them be. So it was responsible for their actions. These are quotes by some of the leaders right before the 6 day war Nasser hinted to destroying Israel please read all of this link http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sixday_backgd.php http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/6daywar.htm Just because you have a statistical number that shows Israel kills less Palestinians than the US kills Iraqis [which is disputable as who does the IDF perceive as terrorists when they board and attack a humanitarian aid vessel] doesn't mean Israel is not guilty of killing the innocent. 50 Men aboard the Mavi Marmara were hired mercenary's they planed before setting out to Israel on fighting IDF soldiers that would board it so the people in the Mavi Marmara were not Innocent as you claim http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177452 Ok, okay even though the country is based off an ancient tribe which was suppose to follow the virtue of YHWH and YHWH specifically does not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah [immediately] because Abraham was going to find 10 innocent people [out of an entire city of evil people who try to rape His messangers]. Now if the religion Israel is based off of isn't good enough for you, it is in violation of the Geneva Convention as conducting an aggressive military operation somewhere deemed of military significance is unjustifiable if it results in invariably killing the innocent. What i have no clue what you are trying to say???????

The ottoman empire once controlled of of Israel, not Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon or Saudi Arabia. The Jewish nation once controlled Israel the Jewish still exist and the ottoman empire doesn't so we have the right to the land not a empire that doesn't still exist What spoils of war did Israel keep it gave everything back to Egypt How did the Christians suffer if they were fighting with terrorist its not Israel fault Lebanon is responsible for harboring terrorist in it country. Nasser's plan was to destroy Israel it didn't work because we attacked first Here's the difference from when the Allies were fighting Hitler. They aimed to attack the Nazis and not just the random and innocent. Israel doesn't killed civilian on purpose but when hamas hides behind civilian it doesn't leaves Israel much of a chose. In Iraq 105408 civilians have been killed and 19,000 terrorist that means for ever terrorist dead The us killed 5.54 civilians, For every civilian killed 1.5 terrorist were killed so us kills way more inconcent then us so you can't say we kill the random and innocent Ok, just because Hezbollah kidnapped your soldiers, again, doesn't give Israel the right to attack the innocent. Israel hit even the Christians, anti-Hezbollah, when they advanced indiscriminately. As i said before when a terrorist hides behind a civilians you can't blame us for them dieing

The 5 Arab nations wanted to destroy the newly founded Jewish nation, not to liberate their land they had not right to it. What land did the Arabs have to liberate the 1947 The British divided the Palestine Mandate meaning that Israel had a full right to the land the British gave to them, not 5 Arab nations that wanted to destroy Israel not liberate land that was never theirs http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_war_start.php Israel suffered many terrorist attacks and raids from Egypt so Israel acted in self defense and attack Egypt to stop this raids. Britain and France wanted to take back the Suez canal you can't blame us for their actions http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sinai_backgd.php The same thing that happened in 1967 happened here there were terrorist attacks and raids form Lebanon so we acted in self defense and acted them to stop them http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_lebanon_1978.php Lebanon didn't of troops but it took part in raids against Israel. Egypt didn't have intent to attack Israel? where do you get your information? Egypt had built up it military presence on the border with Israel and threatened to destroy Israel i am sorry but check your facts for the truth. Israel attacked before Egypt did. The USS Liberty Incident was a mistake in the war Israel admitted to it and they paid full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sixday_backgd.php http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/67_War.html Israel killed 1166 people in cast lead 709 were terrorist. Israel attack civilian location because the terrorist were hiding behind civilians. Only 10% of Germany supported the Nazis but they were still the leaders of Germany. so did the world have the right to take them down? many German civilians died because of the Nazis even if they were innocent. Did you forget what Hezbollah did? They kidnapped our solders and then fired thousands of rockets indiscriminately and at times deliberately at civilian areas

Thanks for backing me up i wasn't even think of wars he didn't mention if we are saying all the don't forget the intifada or Operation Defensive Shield

Yes if someone want to be a terrorist they have to suffer the consequences We have the right to defend our selves and Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel so yes we have the right to take down hamas. The Us when there to get al Qaeda members, we went to Gaza to get hamas members and to get back Gilad Schalit a kidnapped solider of ours ????????????? What i said and you said are not the same thing we left them where they were and we left them in a better situation we didn't force them to leave there homes. I am sorry but get a example closer to mine http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7191359.stm find me a source that doesn't include the BBC because the have been know to twist the truth against Israel http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/04/bbc_lies_again.html http://www.mererhetoric.com/2005/10/12/the-bbc-lies/ Charles Krauthamme is telling the truth and i gave you proof the UN agrees ethnic cleansing in 1948- In 1947 5 Arab nations attacked Israel with the saying "We will drive them into the sea" so Israel did everything possible to live and win the war (winning mean living) Suez Crisis in 1956- Egypt was constantly raided Israel from 1948-1956 this put a stop to it for some time it was a act of self defense South Lebanon in 1978- This was a response to the PLO after a terrorist attack we attacked their base to disable them a act of self defense Six Day War- n May 1967, Egypt closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping and began mobilizing its forces to attack Israel. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq also mobilized and sent troops. In response, Israel launched a strike. Starting June 5, the Israeli air force destroyed Egypt's planes on the ground. Enabled by air superiority throughout the region, meaning they were planning to try to "We will drive them into the sea" Gaza only in 2008- was a response to 8 years of rocket fire on our civilian to stop it over 10,000 rockets have been fired at Israel a act of self defense Wow...I'm not sure what to say to this. So we are getting somewhere http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/under-scrutiny-idf-retracts-claims-about-flotillas-al-qaeda-links/ http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177452 http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137881 they are the are the one boycotting us not us boycotting them i did was it part of the Arabic? They are the ones who started the fighting with weapons we didn't stop till the ship was under control Yes i did How did they?

Just because the UN condemned it doesn't mean that there Israel wasn't right, Israel doesn't bulldoze homes to give "settlers" more land if anything it bulldoze Jewish homes to give to Arabs. I didn't know that Israel admitted to using white phosphorous but if you read past the first paragraph you would understand why. if a terrorist is hiding by a civilian do you let him get away? In 2001 the Taliban were the elected government controlling Afghanistan. So the the USA have the right to overthrow it, yes just like Israel has the right to overthrow hamas in Gaza In 1967 when is conquered the Gaza strip most of the civilians were living in refugee camps and without sewage or proper water sources so if we left them in 2005 with way more then had by themselves then we did them something good. Second the UN says there there is no humanitarian crisis http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/136180 Give me a example because every military action was done in the name of Israel's security. In August 2005 when the IDF left Gaza there was no Military blockade, in June 2007 Hamas overthrew the Fatah (PA) and Israel started a Military blockade against Hamas so its not against the Palestinians it is against hamas and if the Palestinians support a terrorist group then they deserve only bread and nothing more Whe did the IDF retracted those claims? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM The 20 Billion is being given to the Fatah (PA) where they give it out and they use most of it on the west bank that is their fault not Israels, and where are they suppose to get more money? I am sorry but you didn't prove to me that they launched tear gas before boarding You can hear but you can't see the protesters still fighting the IDF No: http://www.newsweek....errorists-.html As i said in the beginning read past the first paragraph

Oh, well, then let me: they aren't facts, at least not most of them -- rather, it is a collection of claims, opinions, half-truths and outright lies, with the occasional fact thrown in. (And no, I'm not wasting an hour ripping the whole thing to shreds, as nearly all of it has been covered in this thread, which "ISREAL63" likely didn't read.) i read it all before posting don't make accusations falsely

True but israel is not helping matters at all. If you are forced out of your home and watch it bulldozed in front of you are you just gonna go oh well israel has a right to defend itself. Or if you get carpet bombed and have white phosforus used against you ( a chemical which in some cases is even worse then napalm). Israel may not have started the violence but these disproportionat responces are doing nothing to lessen it. Israel only destroys homes of terrorist and it only bombs places that have proven to have terrorist or weapons. The use of white phosphorus was a claim by hamas it was never proven to be true True, but they are the elected leaders. Support for hamas would end if israel actually gave the palastinians a better alternative. Starving and bombing them will just keep increaseing hamas's support as more people begin to hate israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization meaning it can't have elected leaders. What alternative is there? How is Gaza is starving they have basic foods everything else is not allowed in because hamas will use it against Israel. And israel's overzealous responces will just make more people want payback. What overzealous responses has Israel done? Yes because colouring books can be used to make missles right? The blocked is designed to force the Palestinians to overthrow Hamas so yes even coloring books are acceptable I'm getting tired of people quoting this. The actual deal was to send any humanitarian aid to gaza which was not on their banned items list. Which is a great chunk of what that convoy was carrying. On the flotilla ship the IDF found there were knives, slingshots and night vision goggles, which indicate hostile goals. do some research for yourself instead of just quoting party lines. research how much aid israel sends into gaza and what they don't allow in then get back to us. There is also reports that the commandos launched tear gas onto the ship before boarding and that some of them hit and wounded several of the activists and that is what caused the agressive responce. There is proof that before the IDF went on the ship they prepared weapons there is not proof of commandos launched tear gas onto the ship before boarding it because it didn't happen they hand paint ball guns in case of a emergency that was there only weapon what is also not shown in those videos is how the medical staff on board the ship was carring for both wounded commandos and activists alike and how once the ship was capured the medics were tied up and forced to watch at least one of their patients die because israeli medics never got on board in time. or even any footage of people getting shot in the back while they were running for their lives. ... israel still can't actually be trying to spin that can they? Its true and there evidence they some of them were connected to terrorist organizations. Or maby it is finally opening some peoples eyes to how low israel will actually sink to in the name of "security". There you just proved what you quoted

thank you for your help

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here are the facts Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them. Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute. Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to. Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it. Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused â because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about. Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along. And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal. This fact has been starkly captured in video widely circulating around the Internet, showing the vicious beatings initiated by those on board one of the ships against Israelis, who for their part had been instructed to refrain from using any force if at all possible. Indeed, in Israel the military is being criticized for failing to adequately prepare its naval personnel to anticipate the attacks on them from the boats, and for being too passive, and too trusting, in its approach to the flotilla. As for the evidence that certain individuals of those responsible for orchestrating this tragedy are linked to Al Qaeda and other representatives of the worst forces on the planet, the next days will likely yield more information. But the larger issue is this: Has the desire to blame Israel in certain quarters reached such an irrational frenzy that the fundamental facts of any issue relating to the Middle East conflict will reliably be overlooked? Are those who are committed to a fair-minded and reasonable analysis of that conflict prepared to insist that others who like nothing more than jumping to conclusions stop, pause, think, and consider the actual evidence? There will always be those who dont let facts to get in the way of their biases. But fair-minded people examine the evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high. Israel and the cause of peace in the Middle East is counting on them to do just that.

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