I hate to piss in anyone's cereal here, but the PvP clanning community has been around for a long, long time. Much longer than those dungeoneering clans that spawned from clan chats or PvM clans. The amount of dedication involved within a PvP clan is far more than in both of those combined. For it is not for personal gain. It is simply done for the betterment of the clan. That's why players return for hours and hours, dying with full gear in the Wilderness so that their clan can pull off the win. That's why Warlords and Leaders of these clans spend those hours calling into all hours of the night, regardless of other commitments. Don't believe me? Look up the 24 hour fight between The Titans and Divine Forces. I find it sad and disappointing to see this disappear, only to be replaced by gambling and citadels. People seem to underestimate this faction of the clan world simply because they refuse to be a part of it. As a result, activity has declined to the point of it becoming a minority and updates such as EoC or the Wilderness Toggle option end up passing through the game with relatively little retaliation, effectively causing an even further decline. So, please do not underestimate the impact the loss of PvP clanning has had. For not only did it give a reason to login for a great deal of players, but the level and intensity of gameplay experienced cannot possibly be compared to anything in PvM/skilling clans.