xpx

They did, but not many figured which seeds would become useful and which wouldn't. As far as i know, halw gnun was one of the only ones who stockpiled tree seeds.

lilyuffie. It was a big event when she got to 99(probably the last time any 99 was, really). *ahem99construction**ahemahemmhemm* Basically any skill released after that... Hunter, Summoning and Dungeoneering! There is also Runecrafting and Slayer due to both very slow skills. Farming came after those 2, which is also very logically! High level seeds were very rare! The only monster to drop them are the Dragon Implings and Commander Zilyana in 2007! In 2010 the next monster came out to drop these. So until then, the main training methods were lower level'd tree seeds. Even Yew seeds were very rare as only 1 monster before '10 dropped these! And if you say "What about bird nests?" The chances on these are very rare and the main method of obtaining these nests requires quite a lot of quests! So you are going to tell me how rare seeds were when farming came out? uhh. I only used the highest seeds available, apart from herbs, because herb seeds were nameless and getting high leveled ones was basically impossible without getting scammed. The mage seeds i bought ranged from like 200 to 300k each and i bought them at a hefty premium(because i couldn't have been arsed to buy from the source), but i only really needed one or two suppliers. Remember- seeds were released like 1-2 months before farming was. What i meant by the lilyuffie comment was that it was a real community event when she got the level, and even jagex acknowledged it. Rc was just considered an inevitability, zezima never made any fuss about slayer(he was really lucky to get it first though), farming wasn't a big deal, construction only took 6 days and so on. Back then, 99 prayer was similar to 200m all is now. Also, construction is probably remembered only because of the durial(sp?) business(fally massacre).

lilyuffie. It was a big event when she got to 99(probably the last time any 99 was, really).

There's a reason prayer was one of the only skills no one had 99 in before membership was released. Membership was released 2 years before someone got to 99 prayer- noone got there even in rsc(only skill not to be maxed in rsc). Even at the start of rs2 prayer was really, really hard and expensive. The max was around 180k xp an hour(burying dragon bones in a bank), but cost you a blue partyhat every 3-4 hours(and in general, partyhat prices have stayed relatively the same compared to how much money is worth). The release of ecto brought the price down by 4x, but meant around 30k xp an hour tops.

So, we have 50k, but how much more are we realistically going to get? to really be a separate game and have it work i think the 500k tier is needed, but i don't know if we are going to get there. Also, it's quite funny how jagex says ''well introduce system IF NEEDED''. Are they kidding? free trade died dec 07 because of botting, meaning we are going straight back to botting heaven.

I know the first thing I would do is start slaying. Like a maniac. It was a very good skill for money back in those days. Or train magic for teleports. Quests will be big at first too. You'll basically be restricted to dragon scims(and longs before that) before whips become available. Also, treasure trails will provide most of the armor you'll need at first. I'm guessing herblore will be one of the biggest moneymakers as you can't get potions from anywhere else. It was only a good skill because there was lots of money in the game (through alching, all the years of drops, etc etc), and it had became concentrated, so there were wealthy players. In a new hypothetical RS, it would take years, if not at least several months before anyone accumulated enough money to pay handsomely enough to make Slayer a good money-maker or as good a moneymaker as it was. Money is actually fast to accumulate. People alching various drops and resources accumulates money very fast.

I really can't understand the people who say you should vote even if you aren't interested. There is actually alot to lose, which is a potential split in the community, which would be good for neither. Lets face it- in 2007 the game wasn't significantly better than it is now, if at all. The reason we look back at it fondly is the community, and no matter what, jagex can not bring that back. 2013 community in 2007 scape is just a terrible idea.

How strong are jads anyway, as prayers can only neglect 50% damage now... Thus, if their damage has been reduced, wouldn't you just be able to soul split through it(within reason, ofcource)?

Sorry to barge in, but if anyone has any knowledge about completing the superior version of the fight caves(no idea what the name is, really) in eoc, could you also post that here. Thanks.

They said 2007 servers, not 2003. Try and keep up, please.

So, do they also have the backup for the 2007 community? No? yeah, NO!

And why exactly were you so stubborn not to believe me when i said, numerous times over two days that it degrades in 12 hours? Instead you go out to find the most ridiculous claims from the most unreliable of sources and start making assessments upon them. Why even argue about something if you aren't sure about it. In any case, you might be in for a long wait. I'm relatively sure your happiness wasn't on their to-do list for this year. Sorry.

Glad that was cleared... You can't just trust unnamed sources and make blind assessments based upon them. In any case, you can make the argument that pop armor is exactly and precisely what they said it would be, it's just too exactly and precisely what they said it would be and defense is useless in eoc.

People claim alot of things. The reports i've heard are that it degrades in 12 hours of combat stance. The issue you are having is likely the virtus hood comparison at KK, but you have to consider that at a 6 ticks per attack pace and fast kills with enough people, the virtus hood could last more than 70 hours of combat. Again, there are different reports out there, and if it's anything less than 12 hours it would be fixed 100%, but to my mind, the 12 hours of real combat is reasonable, while discussing a potential bug isn't. And again- everyone thought =/= reality.

I'm still baffled by your complete and utter trust in jagex. I have no idea how you can call yourself an oldschool player and have that. I lost any ''trust'' i had in them over 9 years ago. Also, there is really no reason to over-dramatize the degradation- it's the same as pvp gear... which means you can TAKE IT OFF :eek: . When jagex said it degrades in 12 hours, they actually meant 12 hours, and because they did exactly what they told us, you are mad. Sure, many would interpret it differently, but in the end of the day, again, what you interpret it to be really doesn't matter. For some strange reason you try to picture jagex as a friend who keeps messing up and whom you want to help out, when in reality it's just another big firm with a bunch of knobs sitting on their asses all day long. I do agree that not being able to repair it at any state is really messed up and i guess that might actually become a reason why they have to change the degradation. Still, i do maintain that the current degradation rate is entirely reasonable.

Sadly Jagex has never been able to make any sort of long term plans, best example of this is the Biohazard quest line; been over a decade since it was started and only one new quest in the last 7 years, with absolutely zero signs of ever intending to be be finished. The Elemental Workshop series was supposed to be concluded in the first half of 2012 and have reached Elemental Workshop 7/8/9, and has obviously been forgotten. And that's exactly why, when jagex says they are releasing the best armor in game, you should always tread carefully and really consider what they are saying. Pop armor is the best defensive armor in game, but the problem is, the game doesn't warrant the use of such high defensive bonuses. Right now we have atleast 3 examples of lower tier equipment being superior to higher tier- hex vs sag short, sigil shields vs dg shields and nex vs pop armors. For all three, the lower tier equipment is in some way considered special and is much more difficult to obtain.

Stop making skills easier, then. :-|... This old chestnut...? Really? People have been using that line since the dawn of RuneScape. Given fishing is still trained fastest using methods that were commonplace about five or six years ago... the action bar notwithstanding. Quite apart from that, and I can only assume you've directed that point towards Runespan; what do you want Jagex to do? You want them to continue developing the game in fun and captivating ways, with training methods being part of that development, but you essentially want to make it all pointless and redundant from the get-go because their XP rates don't match up to ZMI or, even better, law running. Why don't they match up? Because you don't like it otherwise. I just don't understand this elitist complex at all. Surely, if you genuinely gave a toss about new players, you'd be saying "This is a great update, one of the best updates in RuneScape history, definitely the best update in 2012... I hope they enjoy it as much as I have, and how they got to access it in the first place, I really couldn't care less about". I think jagex should have had a clear design plan from the start of rs2 on, categorizing skills in the gathering, combat and buyable categories and parring all skills at around 100k per hour considering efficiency(ie moneymaking). From then forward, there should be no more than an update each 2 years that would up the rates at a steady 10% increase. The problem here is that right now, we are not looking at steady increases- Runespan is a full on nerf(250%), keybag is a huge nerf(150-200%). The list goes on and on. Skills that used to be hard and prestigious(like prayer, for example) are now a joke. And i sill think jagex totally had cost in mind when they were designing the pop sets, as these totally seem like welfare/defensive alternatives to nex sets. They just haven't made defense useful enough for it to be very good(and again, this goes back to how flawed eoc and boss mechanics are). And as someone was explaining the benefit of 4% dps, 17% defense, if used for tanking, reduces the number of food you eat, prolonging trips, adding dps and lessening the chance of death. It all goes full circle. We just need a boss that deals damage regardless of special attacks and has high accuracy. Also, i can't believe there isn't any argument against sigil shields in the same sentence as there is against nex armor. There is basically no difference between those(vs dg shields), and i really can't see how you can argue for one and not the other and not look like a hypocrite.

I double your oldschool and raise you mine. I've likely worked atleast 4x as hard for everything than you'd have to today. Long story short, noone cares. You've obviously missed the point. The point was not to turn this into a dick-measuring contest. Rather I was saying that a great deal of us high levels are old-school and not part of the current trend where you get easy (or in the case of SOF) or free experience. Thus, to a significant portion of players, especially a portion of players that intersects (in the sense that higher-leveled players are more likely to be long-time players) with high level players(which is what PoP is aimed for), the argument "Yeah, well level 90 is super easy to get anyways, so who cares if your PoP sucks, it's too good as it is", simply does not work. And you missed my point- noone cares how hard it took you to do something. You doesn't matter. What is doable now is the only thing that really matters. W can't sit here and say that because rc used to be one of the hardest skills in rs that pop armor should be better because of it now. With how easy skills are to train nowadays, level 90 in a few of these skills isn't something that is going to break your back, and particularly for a new player just starting out, pop armor will be a very nice candy once he achieves a few of these skills. Overall, pop and nex gear are both very good armors at two very different ends of the spectrum, with each having its own distinct advantages. Once jagex nerfs void i think people might realize pop will be the more efficient armor to use for high level bossing.

I double your oldschool and raise you mine. I've likely worked atleast 4x as hard for everything than you'd have to today. Long story short, noone cares. Stop making skills easier, then.

I think you should really consider starting a new account from 0, and from that perspective, you'd have the pop sets before you could even wear them, where as money usually isn't as easy to come by at first. Also, skilling is so ridiculously easy nowadays that the level 90 reqs(of which you don't need all 6) are pathetic, it's also hard to consider skilling time as part of that used to obtain the armor, and the skills needed for high level bossing to make money for nex gear are atleast as high if not higher. Also, it's really hard to consider dygore and set bonus into this equation because pop armor seems to be meant for players that can't afford those, so in comparison maul and no set bonuses is much more realistic. As for a higher boss, i reckon if they ever make an actual boss that does damage based on defense and not reflexes pop armor will be better. Right now, they have just constructed another highly flawed system that makes a t45 or t55 the best in game.

Good way to show your knowledge of the game. At 105k an hour tops, agility is the slowest skill nowadays, but is exceptionally fast compared to every skill in rsc and most skills at the start of rs2. The slowest skill ever title likely goes to rsc prayer(noone ever got 99 prayer in rsc).

Noone before you argued that ''jagex promised us...'' was in any way something a sane person would consider relevant. Also i'd like to see proof that pop armor doesn't last 12 hours. As far as i'm aware of, the problem here is that nex gear can last up to 100 hours in the same conditions pop armor lasts 12, not that the 12 hour spec is wrong. And still, people look at the nex armor stats and just based on a little hit bonus, think it's always better everywhere, no matter how wide the between the defenses is. Ignoring boots/gloves and the set bonus(as pop armor users would, in most cases not be able to afford them anyway), nex gear has a 2% DPS increase with chaotic maul, and that is in balance with a whopping 17% more defense on the pop sets. The problem here isn't that pop armor is bad- it's spectacular. HOWEVER, due to the content we have in game right now, it ends up being better.... nowhere, and more to the point, void armor, which is the only armor in game with any kind of significant offensive boost might actually be the best armor in game. So really, if jagex ever releases a t90 boss, the pop armors would likely be the best, but right now, they are just statistically the best. Also, whether you like it or not, pop armor will always be much, much cheaper to own and maintain.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time. Moneymaker how? As you said yourself, there's no desire for a set that's worse than Nex. It isn't "necessary" anywhere. The only way people would use it in combat situations is if it costs about as much as Nex gear to maintain, which means the entire set should cost between 2-10M. I'm sorry, but no one high level (which, as most of us probably forgot, is a requirement to even enjoy this content) is gonna invest oodles of time for something worth so little. Spices aren't even worth 4k each at the moment and scrimshaws barely sell for 2M. How exactly do you invest loads of time? It takes a minute to put 2 boats under way for 8 hours, for a total of 3 times every day. So yeah, 3 minutes a day. And for that you will have a steady dribble of resources coming in, resources that will make for sell-able items(armor, scrimshaws and soup). As said earlier, the money used for repairs, when used right, is actually still very low for pop armor. What most people don't understand, however, is how much money it costs to own high priced non-discontinued equipment. You can lose it when you die(DC). You can't use the money to merch. The price will always steadily decrease. An update can make you lose a ton. That's alot of things to consider even before we get to the price- and really, you need the whole set with gloves and boots to make a significant difference, and the gloves and boots are atleast as expensive as the other parts. Pop armor is extremely good for how much effort it takes to obtain it.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time.

Sure, i agree with everything you've said. The only problem with that is that pop gear is just way too easy to obtain(no gp needed, very little real-life time needed). I'm to the opinion that the usefulness of equipment should mostly arise from how difficult it is to obtain, and with that in mind, there is a perfect balance between pop and nex gear. Making pop equipment better would be a major imbalance and render some very recent ultra-high level content much, much less useful.