Artificial_Doom_Flavor

I don't see why people have a problem with farcasting, as that's the method mages are supposed to use to fight. Anyway, I digress. Safing I don't take much issue with. When a person safes, they potentially waste time they could've used to attack the opponent- and if they continue to do this, you end up getting more hits in on them than vice versa. And for you, that's a good thing. So don't get all heated up if someone safes. They're doing YOU a favor.

I think all JaGeX needs to do is reset aggression zones for all shoppers. While the shop window is open, monsters in that area should be aggressive. This would work until they train the macroers' combat. Then God help us when they need to be banned.

As many of you might know, there are a number of level 3s in f2p rune shops that are buying all of the death and chaos runes. These are either goldfarmers or macroers, obviously- the problem is nothing new- and neither is one of the reasons: The master account makes a massive profit off of selling these runes. But is there another reason? As goldfarmers and macroers reach very high mining levels thanks to months of essence and coal mining, they are able to start mining runite. Most of these have low combat levels and are virtually defenceless, while some may have higher defense levels. Whatever the case, these miners are most vulnerable to magic attacks. However, the supply of runes has for the most part been cut off by the rune shop autobuyers and farmers. The remaining sources? Other players, most notably the same autobuyers that cut off that supply and jack up the price significantly. Even worse, these runes also fuel the goldfarmers' protection accounts- accounts designed for the sole purpose of killing players that attempt to PK their miners. In essence, the community protects its miners by starving mages. The same goes for rangers: You'll often see a level 3 in world 1 selling ridiculous amounts of adamant arrows for 150ea. So why is this so big a deal if it's been going on for so long? The simple fact of the matter is that these people are aggravating price drops in runite resources and stagnating magic rune prices. Armor, weapons, ores, bars, and other runite items have greatly decreased in price over the last year or so (remember when a rune plate could set you back 65k?), while death runes remain at virtually the same price. This means that PKing in f2p is slowly becoming less and less profitable, especially for mages. This makes it easy for the farmers to afford rune armor for their protection accounts and scouts. This means that Smithing - already a skill hardly worth the investment- becomes even more obsolete. The bottom line? The legit players get screwed over while the cheaters make massive in-game and real-world profits for their dirty work- and all it takes is buying out the rune shops in every free world. This has been going on for too long. If this bothers you, DO voice your displeasure. JaGeX already knows about this but has done nothing to stop shop autobuyers. Take every opportunity you can to kill these macroers, in the wild and out. Send complaints. Craft death runes. Just do whatever you can to counter this. That's all.

Then Jagex will not do it, because they will run out of ideas. If they only do 15 or so and rotate them, then it will be no different to the other randoms - people will make anti randoms. I really can't say how much creative energy JaGeX would have in this direction, so I'll assume you're right. We seem to be arguing about 2 different types of macros. I will specify which type and you do the same. For client hacked macros, (the type that multi-log) even if they all fail the random, they will not be banned any faster. Jagex has a reflection system which lets them know when somebody logs into a modified client. So when the account logs in, Jagex knows it is a macro - before the random hits. (In bugs and suggestions, see my thread entitled "Real way to stop macroers, won't affect game play" for more information.) In the case of a colour clicker, the type that runs on a rotation of accounts, the first account (the one logged in when the random occurs) will get banned when Jagex gets around to it - probably another week. The others will not log in because the bot is killed, so they are safe. The macroer will log in on each of them and solve the random manually, then they are safe for another week. As I said before, Jagex will already know the account is macroing in the case of a client hacked macro. In the case of a colour clicker, the account will get banned in a week or so when Jagex gets around to it and the rest are safe. I'm dealing primarily with colour clickers. Like you said, macroers have reserves. But these reserves are bound to run out sooner or later: the question is whether JaGeX's creativity or the macroer's patience runs out first. And what if the random were issued at a time during which the owner would be asleep? This is why I proposed a three-times-daily issuance. Granted, they could (and probably would) attempt to write an anti-random if one of them caught the bot owner during a waking hour, but I think it unlikely that they would be consistently successful. Remember- it doesn't need to be a 100% success rate: it just needs to make problems that are too frustrating or not worth solving for most macroers. It will take a matter of a couple seconds for the macro to realize it has the random, and inactivity for a couple seconds is not something to look for when detecting macroers. It will take the macro a couple seconds to realize, but how long will it take for it to solve something it cannot solve? They're at a crossroads with no way out unless the owner steps in and solves the random. All they have to do is write down a few colours and co-ordinates, compare them to other cheaters and make the anti random. In the case of a client hacked macro, they just have to take down id's. Then just hand it out and get feedback and smooth out bugs. Anti random = done. Will they really have the motivation if their work is outdated every week? Jagex can't keep track of every bank, it would take up way too much memory. The players in default clothing aren't macroers they are sweatshop workers, which also rules out the sub combat 20 check. Colour clicker macros (the ones which Jagex does not detect on login) do not concentrate on a couple skills, they generally level up everything evenly. That idea will not work either. These are only examples of certain combinations of suspicious characteristics. There are probably much better formulas that will fit most color clickers and goldfarmers ("sweatshop workers" as some like to call them are still engaged in activities against the rules and therefore should also be picked up by this system). I am quite sure JaGeX has the resources at their disposal to find these combinations. As for the memory issue, I think that could be solved by making character examination client-side. Bad combination? Send a flag. Modified client? Already flagged.

Something tells me a real miner- especially an experienced one- would have little trouble picking up his pickaxe and going to work with smooth, full movements of the arms, not jerky motions that let gravity carry down not only the pickaxe but the miner as well. After all, we're swinging the pickaxe here, not dropping it. Yes, I understand that it is sort of heavy, but wouldn't a high-level miner not be subject to this? He is, after all, used to lifting and swinging the pickaxe (which is part of the reason he can mine runite and an inexperienced person could not- he knows how to properly handle his pickaxe and the right angles at which to swing it to break the rock).

Looks like a zombie when mining the rock

Then they will be even more simple and convenient for macroers. If jagex makes their randoms like that, they will have some sort of constant. EG: (10 items) "Which item is (odd one out/blue/square/on the left etc) Then a anti random is easy to make with case statements for each of the variables. Well obviously the layout is not always going to be the same. The point is to keep the event simple but differ it significantly enough that an algorithm used to solve the previous could not be used to solve the next using simple substitutions in the code. It won't know when it will strike, but It will know once it has the random. It may know when it has the random, which leaves it with three options: Disconnect, attempt to solve, or switch to manual control. It cannot do the first without risking detection; it cannot do the second because it does not know how; and it may have time to switch control over to the owner- but by the time the owner finishes it, he will only have saved a handful of his accounts. You never said that before. Anyway, the macro would just force quit, then kill the bot. Then as I said before, the person would log in on each account and finish the random. The account macroing at the time of the random wouldn't get banned for a week or so, and the rest of them are safe. I doubt most legitimate players have a reason to disconnect as soon as an unfamiliar random event pops up. Very obvious activity. And even if the action is classified as a connection timeout, it would still be logged as such during issuance of the random. I have said this a few times on these forums, anything a player can do, a program can do better. The macro would use random waits so it would solve the random in around the same time as a human would. Unfamiliar random = marked duration of inactivity If they are being solved simultaneously, then they are multi logging on a client hacked macro. Jagex has a reflection system which lets them know when somebody logs into a modified client. So if the accounts all solve the random simultaniously, and chooses not to use random pauses and clicks etc, (which they will) the the account won't get banned any faster because Jagex already knows it is a macro because it is on a modified client. If they are not using a client hacked macro and are running on a rotation of accounts, then then the macro will have a lot of emphasis on undetectability. This includes different paths to do something, random waits, misclicks and rotations etc. Jagex won't see any similarities. This is precisely why I think this could work: Who would have time to code solutions (let alone undetectability) when they have no idea what is on the horizon or when it will be issued? And if they have to solve the random in less than two minutes, would they have time to code a solution algorithm with undetectability? Now, you did mention the macroer rotating accounts if he lost a group. This is why a weekly check is necessary: it has cumulative effects. Even if they have hundreds of accounts lined up, they will all eventually be disabled. If the macroer creates new accounts, they will not be useful for some time and will still be caught by new random events every single week. The problem lies in that 60 woodcutting, 30 mining, et cetera- are attainable in less than a day of continuous playing, while this random event is issued three times a week on a random day. I never said this system was perfect, but I certainly do think it would help As an alternative, I have a second proposal: Use the same profiling system as before, only reports will be sent when players reach "milestone" levels or amounts of resources rather than on the failure to solve a random event. Something like this:

It's standard metal armor. Why would it have a strength bonus?

Until someone safespotted you

Esc, F5, F6 Energy Potions Entangle High Range GG No, joking. Seriously though, are NPCs really all that "smarter" now? I still find that I can safespot catablepon and varrock guards around passable single-square corners. O = Me X = Guard R = Rock (passable by projectiles) :: = walkable terrain OR ::x

Do people ever call you a "crossbow noob?" If they do, 1-hit them with it.

It's an electrum hilt, like Mace Windu's or Emperor Palpatine's. I'm such a nerd :XD:

These random events need not be complex. They can be as simple as a pop-up window asking about item types. That keeps it simple and fairly convenient for the normal players. Umm Think again. Most anti randoms are fairly easy to solve, especially with client hacked macros. Why wouldn't anybody make 15 random events? There are many versions of every random event in many languages made by many different people for the randoms we have currently, why not another 15? Even if nobody does make anti randoms, my first point stands. They will log off, then the person macroing just has to log in on each of them and solve the random, the macro for another week. Like I said, this random event (emphasis on random here; the macroer has no way of knowing when it will strike) would lock the player's ability to log out. Between a macroing PC and a real, player-controlled PC, there would be a significant difference in the time it would take for the random to be solved. This in itself could be an indicator. Additionally, a random being solved simultaneously on all of a macroer's accounts through a specific set of input commands would be extremely easy to detect.

What do you mean by IF I could choose a lightsaber? Also the hilt is made of Electrum

Here, from page 1:

I like the suggestion of a new one-time-only random event every week, as well: I think this would be the most effective solution to the macroing problem as it requires the player to be at the computer and ready to handle it as soon as possible. I'd like to add that if the player fails to address the random event properly, a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason). This random event should not interrupt combat or Duel Arena users, but will interrupt EVERYTHING else, from shopgoers to book-readers to stair-climbers to banking users. Unless the player is in the Wilderness or other combat areas, their ability to log out will be locked. Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations (such as 10- stats in all skills but woodcutting) take the topmost tier. Legitimate players who are logged out during the issuance of the random event will answer it when they log back in. In order to ensure that all players are issued the event at least once, the same random event will be given three times in one day and a different one issued at three random times on a random day of the next week. Advantages: a. Fast detection of macroers b. Macro writers will not be able to keep up with the sudden appearance of such events c. Bans large number of macroers in a very short time d. Bans shop macroers, who are responsible for a continually inflated cost of death and chaos runes e. Regardless of ban success, will hugely interrupt the macroing operation until a solution is coded f. Macroers are logged in almost 24-7; this means that most legitimate players will not be adversely affected by random events during the issuance. g. A weekly random event will have cumulative effects on bots: those that are logged out for one set of events may be caught by the next. Disadvantages: a. Coding a new random event every week would be stressful and costly b. Can result in banning of innocent skillers c. Can result in the ban of non-english-speaking players d. Floods JaGeX with data, a large part of which may be useless e. May disrupt the economy f. It is critical that the event be issued simultaneously to all online players g. This system is going to be difficult to implement

Does anyone else support the weekly random event with flags? I seriously think it could work.

That's where a weekly new random event comes into play. Macroers can't POSSIBLY guard themselves against them.

I put this idea in the thread concerning a solution to the macroing problem: Opinions?

I've been using SwiftSwitch for a number of years. Incredibly useful for looking up opponents, prices, and planning skills. Hotkey for the Windows calculator is also very good. I don't see why so many of you hate it- it's made things a lot easier for me.

I emphasize attack over strength and defense. 77-71-72. A person with 75-81-63 calls me a noob and says that my stats are nothing. Yeah, she gets a lot of critical hits, I have to eat to keep from dying (naturally "safer" is used here), but at the end of the day, she's out of food and running to multi beacuse I'm hitting her more often than she hits me. Even after calling me a noob for doing something that would keep me alive, she teleports. Don't you love egotistical fools?

I like the suggestion of a new one-time-only random event every week, as well: I think this would be the most effective solution to the macroing problem as it requires the player to be at the computer and ready to handle it as soon as possible. I'd like to add that if the player fails to address the random event properly, a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason). This random event should not interrupt combat or Duel Arena users, but will interrupt EVERYTHING else, from shopgoers to book-readers to stair-climbers to banking users. Unless the player is in the Wilderness or other combat areas, their ability to log out will be locked. Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations (such as 10- stats in all skills but woodcutting) take the topmost tier. Legitimate players who are logged out during the issuance of the random event will answer it when they log back in. In order to ensure that all players are issued the event at least once, the same random event will be given three times in one day and a different one issued at three random times on a random day of the next week. Advantages: a. Fast detection of macroers b. Macro writers will not be able to keep up with the sudden appearance of such events c. Bans large number of macroers in a very short time d. Bans shop macroers, who are responsible for a continually inflated cost of death and chaos runes e. Regardless of ban success, will hugely interrupt the macroing operation until a solution is coded f. Macroers are logged in almost 24-7; this means that most legitimate players will not be adversely affected by random events during the issuance. g. A weekly random event will have cumulative effects on bots: those that are logged out for one set of events may be caught by the next. Disadvantages: a. Coding a new random event every week would be stressful and costly b. Can result in banning of innocent skillers c. Can result in the ban of non-english-speaking players d. Floods JaGeX with data, a large part of which may be useless e. May disrupt the economy f. It is critical that the event be issued simultaneously to all online players g. This system is going to be difficult to implement

I say instead of instant death, deal 10-20 damage straight up. That would kill most autoers yet preserve players of a medium-to-high level, who would be carrying more valuable items.

I never had an interest in sports, probably because I was never any good at them. I quit Boy Scouts. I got sick of people in general. RuneScape was something I happened to be good at, and people would largely leave me alone yet I could ask them for assistance when I needed it, and vice-versa. That was a big chunk of why I liked it: The other is that it was just something to do when I was bored. It didn't stop me from leaving the house, but I quickly found that (as I'd predicted) there simply wasn't anybody to DO anything WITH, and so any plans I had of getting a life were thoroughly disseminated. I turned back to the game and turned my back on ninety-nine percent of the world. I'm an addict, and I have no life. It's probably less due to RuneScape than it is to my crappy attitude toward a lot of things and people, or maybe the fact that I'm simply too strange for anyone in the real world to accept without explaining myself to them. Maybe both. You guys get on with your lives. Don't be like me. Don't become like me. Quit this game while you have the willpower.