Tip.It Times Presents: Growing Pains

[lavirylime]

Fine article, but the mechanics bugged me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that Jagex may have reached that awkward stage ... It seems to me that there has been a change in Jagex that is inconsistent ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't ever write anything along the lines of "I think" or "I believe" because that only weakens your point. Be brave. Declare now, argue later. (And heck, why would you be writing that if you didn't believe what you were saying?)

[ethan11_2]

it's unlikely that a 12 or 13 year old will maintain their interest in the game that long.

 

 

 

thats not true ive been playing for 2 years and i have allways enjoyed runescape thats just against the really young kids that start playing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

apart from that comment good article jagex does need a change

[Kiara_Kat]

Fine article, but the mechanics bugged me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that Jagex may have reached that awkward stage ... It seems to me that there has been a change in Jagex that is inconsistent ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't ever write anything along the lines of "I think" or "I believe" because that only weakens your point. Be brave. Declare now, argue later. (And heck, why would you be writing that if you didn't believe what you were saying?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of those are the result of Admin editing.

[gedderz]

this seems to be almost a flame at the writer and almost what everyone has put here seems what they havenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t considered.... the whole fact that there an "abnormal" runescape player these are the dedicated fans so thereÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s going to be the 12 playing for years etc but its general market movements and majority thinking, the problem been with this forum is that this is a very select group of gamers we are the most interested in the game and could even come to the point of saying love the game, however still been a minority in reality, this topic is on the majority and whole picture, so before u post about how u are a contrast to whatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s been written here think about the bigger picture the majority of the runescape players will have the most weight even if they are the.... more questionable players.

[l337ubernoob]

I must give a point to Gedderz on what he said, although it is quite hard to read this way

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the article, it was quite interesting to read, but it is not exactly my opinion. In my opinion, it was not exactly stupid to focus more on a younger audience. Considering to other online games, Runescape is quite cheap and therefor affordable to this younger audience. Not too mention that there are more growth opportunities in this younger audience then there are in the more mature audience, which are, as the editor itself more or less stated, in general more devoted to their game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that a lot of the more mature players like me (18 years old and over 5 years of rs experience) are sometimes annoyed by some of the more useless quests (tower of life anyone?) and other updates that make no sense, but the editor (most likely being a few years older then I am) should understand that we are part of a minority here. Even after all our years of experience, we are not worth that much more to Jagex as we still pay the same amount of money as any other member of whatever age and experience would.

 

 

 

Of course I'd love them to give us a quest that actually requires brain capacity, or other intelligently designed high lvl content, but we have to face the fact that it won't happen too often as the large majority will be unhappy if they are without updates for longer then 2 weeks (actually theres already a lot of people complaining if the weekly update is a day late)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The part on management is quite well written I'd say, I'm following several business courses in university this year and it actually follows some of the growth patterns we had to study on, quite interesting to see that.

 

 

 

And on the Enterpreneur/suit person thing, I guess we will have to see what they really are, it is still possible they are growing with their company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, quite a long post I've made here, I hope someone can be bothered to actually read it all :D

[Geadas]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But my opinion is that just because jagex is making money, doesn't mean they are making a good game for everyone. They should be focused less on getting more players, and more on improving the game. And I don't mean adding new quests and skills. I mean changing vital parts of the game, such as the banking system and the chat system. For example, you can look at games like World of Warcraft. Many people play it because it is a well designed game, not because it is a well advertised game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well that is really what needs to be done. No more quests, just balancing the game, making banking system split into several parts, u can name them, putting prayer sign when its on (when u are pk'ing u always forget to turn off ultimate strentgh), also adding hp meter in the top left/right corner then u are fighting( it would be very usefull, cause then u are standing in the same spot with other players u can't see it). There are a lot of things that can be done to enhance the game without spoiling it with nonsuccessfull updates. But whaever is done, i am not going to leave this game, cause i like it too much. I just want it to go the way, that everyone likes to. And older players always has a clearer vision of what they want, so please jagex, don't forget us, if we are paying the same 5 dolllars.

[Hugh_Mannity]

Of course I'd love them to give us a quest that actually requires brain capacity, or other intelligently designed high lvl content

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that's part of what the editor's trying to say -- that Jagex is pandering to the perceived wishes of the less mature players, those that want to get levels quickly get quests done in an hour or so, the easily bored, short attention span players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex were to keep the play ramped up, with tougher quests and more rewards for high level players, the less mature players would benefit. OK they'd find it tough at first, but if they met the challenge, they'd get the rewards. Overcoming challenges is how you grow. If the game doesn't challenge you in some way, then there's not a lot of point in playing.

[Hugh_Mannity]

 

Fine article, but the mechanics bugged me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that Jagex may have reached that awkward stage ... It seems to me that there has been a change in Jagex that is inconsistent ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't ever write anything along the lines of "I think" or "I believe" because that only weakens your point. Be brave. Declare now, argue later. (And heck, why would you be writing that if you didn't believe what you were saying?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of those are the result of Admin editing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. We don't need to get in a fight with Jagex over something printed in The Times now, do we?

[king_muumuu]

As I said in the last article's topic, I quit RuneScape because of this after 3 years of playing. I don't want to play a game that is doomed to become Club Penguin (Cold War anyone?).

[danmull2009]

The most helpful thing I saw in this article was that you can hold the CTRL key and run. I already knew this, but the rest was a whole bunch of mumbo-jum[/u]bo.

[neonihilist]

The only thing Jagex needs to do to keep more mature players is have a few updates once in a while aimed at them, like some interesting quests with deep story lines, like the Plague City quest series and the ones in the desert. They actually didn't have quests like that for the first few years that runescape existed, and many came out last year. The only reason there shouldn't be lots of young players is because they're annoying, but its easy to deal with that by turning public chat off.

 

 

 

I do think the hunter skill is kind of childish, and so is the anchor. However, I thought Cold War was funny, and I understood the metaphor and enjoyed that aspect of it. I don't think Cold War was aimed at just the younger players because they wouldn't understand what it was about, but I'm sure they also enjoyed the humor. Edit: I thought of a few things that were imature about Cold War, cow bells for example. They could have kept it humorous but also made the story line more of a spy thriller.

 

 

 

Another thing Jagex could do to keep its older players and atract new older players would be to not censore the forum so much. It would have been great if there could have been a discussion on the forum about cold war politics when Cold War came out.

 

 

 

In Penguin Club does everyone just stand around and say "Fr33 Stuuf Pleex"?

[Da_Dawg]

I found the Times article a most interesting read. I agree that most of the latest content seems aimed at the young teen audience but also feel that there is still much for the more mature players as well. For those of you who don't understand or care about business models, please don't disrespect the editor for this article. I think He/She is right that Jagex is at that ungainly stage traversing between the small initmate game and corporatehood. There are aspects of the game that I don't like, but, I have the choice to stay away from those areas / parts that annoy me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO Runescape is about patience and persistance. You can't get to the high levels without putting in some serious time and effort. Those players who don't have the attention span to do this will come and go. Those who have the maturity and forsight to "stay the course" will continue to gain higher levels in the game.

 

 

 

As a higher level player myself and somewhat more mature player (I am 40+ years old) I get amused by the less mature players and spend time helping them to understand that only the crazy people give away what they worked for. I try to get them to understand that they have to put in some real work for what they get. Jagex understood this when the game first came out. But in order to keep interest in the game they have started adding mini-games / mini-Quests some of which I like, some I don't but they are part of the whole and again I have the choice to play them or not.

 

 

 

I realize this is a long post especially for someone with as small a post count as mine but I haven't felt the need to post anything much on these forums that could or would help expand Tip.its information base.

[Bmms]

nice, but i disagree with the part that says that kids at 13 wont stick with the game long enough to have there own credit card.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i started play in june/aug of 01, and when i was a month or 2 from my 13 birthday. i still play now and im 18, and ill be turning 19 this year

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe im just one of the abnormal ones. But hey, i been a member since the month it came out, since i was young and couldnt pay for it my parents did. im still a member now but i dont pay for atm since its only 5$ a month, and my mom said she would gladly pay it. but if she ever wanted the money for it i would pay her in a heartbeat.

[jamyj2]

Maybe SOme kids will, maybe some wont. Its a matter of how well updated jagex keep runescape

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Click on my sig to be blown out of your mind

[i_trollz_u]

I believe runescape will end eventually when it gets old and everyone becomes high leveled....

[someone_els]

One of the better articles I've read in a long time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've contemplated the future of Jagex, but I've always been a little biased because they seem to be the pioneers in the market of large-scale java based gaming. Looking at their corporate website, it seems they have some large ambitions outside of Runescape. I'm anxious to see the product of that vision.

[Fey_Warrior]

My issues with this article

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are many good responses here from all the different sides of the many fences. I say 'many', because it would be fundamentally amiss to claim that all 13 year olds are like this, and those who are in their mature years, are like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we wish to speak regarding the specifics of the game and everyone's individual assessment of it as being characterised as being 'childish' or 'too difficult' we end up with contradictory views straight up. As another example, a vocal number of players have expressed Jagex's request for player's to take responsibility for their own behaviour in-game is 'too much' for the vulnerable young players (e.g. recent changes with regards to 'Luring into the Wilderness'). As well a vocal group have also said Jagex is being over-protective ('babying') if it tries to help players too much (e.g. Lumbridge Tutors, Homeport spell, etc.). These are only a two of a multitude of divergent player perspectives on rule changes and updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a disclaimer, I am speaking on my own behalf, as a player of the game here. So my views on the above examples is that we shouldn't allow or encourage players to engage in a 'culture' of lying (neglecting to warn or lying to other players about 'the danger' is deception). Yet with the Tutorial updates provided for new players, I can see benefits since that has reduced the incidence of beggers, given there is now a wealth of help and assistance available in-game for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We must speak as individuals, of our experiences in the context of each of our characters in the game, for our specific views on these matters to make sense. I think it's wrong to take these 'specific' views and without acknowledging the dramatic loss of context that happens when making general conclusions about it all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sampling views and pasting them on top of general characterisations of age-groups carries with it the danger of ignoring all the differences between these individuals and the wide variations within those groups, let alone within the RuneScape population itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though I do feel the Editor does have a good grasp of the main elements corporate culture and it's generalities. It's when the Editor takes those generalities and applies them to Jagex as somehow explaining why 'individual' updates have been made in response to the above generalised demographics that important points may have been glossed over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a wide differential in the range of opinions within each generalised group of players, let alone on their views on the game in general. We must be careful when we cite specific features and updates, then draw from such specifics summations about Jagex's 'corporate culture'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We must take care when drawing very long bows about these issues. Least we give fodder for those few who are prone to resentment whose may wish harm to Jagex, or want to end 'the game' without thinking of the rest of us. I'm sure the Editor only wishes the best for the game and the players here, so I don't think there's any ill intent in the conclusions made in this particular article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My views on the relation of the RuneScape player base & Jagex's 'corporate culture'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I am saying, that even with some very finely drawn arguments it would still be very difficult to reduce all the very complex and divergent questions the Editor has raised into a single conclusion. Despite my reservations stated here, I did enjoy reading what is still an important article for RuneScape and it's players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do feel that a number of points do need to be addressed individually rather used to critique Jagex on one point: that somehow they're unfocussed as a company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with that point, since Jagex has a vast age-range of players in which some aspects of the game call for much more maturity and planning than would be capable in the putative 'early youth' market. At the same time the availability of the 'free version' of the game (and it's limited skill set) does attract a lot of young players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree, too, that we can or should be asking Jagex to choose among all these players; after all we all do want to the game to grow and mature along with all of its players to the exclusion of none.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How Jagex does this is less related to it's particular corporate structure though, since this is as you pointed out, a challenge all growing companies face. Yet, since all MMORPGs are virtual worlds, they are fundamentally different beasts to any corporate structure that has come before. It's not just 'policing a game' but a new virtual-place where players and whole social groups mature and change. Luckily we don't have to deal with Real World Trading, ownership in virtual spaces or any of the other obvious legal and legislative mine-fields (like taxation). Accommodating what is happening in RuneScape, as you illustrated on some other points, will not be easy. However, it's far too early to draw quick conclusions or write Jagex's eulogy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The entrepreneurs had already created a division of labour awhile back anyway. Constant was and still is the corporate manager. Andrew was, and still is, the game engine designer and architect of RuneScript. Paul remains the director of the Content Development division. While we may have a few more players, we need to recognise, that some of their success was due to their early differentiation of those roles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is the Editor suggesting that Constant resign? I don't believe so. Is the Editor saying that Andrew or Paul should no longer have a say in the development of the engine or the content of the game? I don't believe the Editor is trying to say that either. Is the Editor suggesting they need to take a look at who says what goes in important parts of the game? Possibly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe if you can get responses from Constant Tedder on this you might get some answers on the Corporate front. However, it's a myth that Andrew and Paul are overwhelmed, since they have a great team of people whom they have worked with for some time now, as I'm sure you have acknowledged many times. It's a staff base in which they're recruiting more than ever, which if anything indicates they expect more growth to come.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On being a player and the RuneScape narrative

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a player though I can sympathise since it is a little overwhelming to think what was a small community only a few years back is now heading into realm of being one among many millions, mirroring the real globe with a virtual one. That makes player anxiety and curiosity over the goings on at Jagex Towers of intense interest to all who care for the game and their characters part in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I seen lots of suggestions for the 'final battle' between Zamorak & Saradomin, and similar themes. Yet, all peoples (even the fictional ones in RuneScape) have been obsessed with those themes of 'origins' and 'endings' since the 'beginning' of time; it's a preoccupation popular in many Real Life belief systems. Even in RuneScape we have the precedent that before the war of the gods (the 3rd Age) there were previous gods who never would've imagined things could've gone on without them. It's this deep desire to understand it all things, and then relate it back to our own part in events, that leads us to early conclusions when the story for the greater world of RuneScape has only just started.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel that same desire in players is what is driving this need to summarise and 'conclude' a history of a game, which I believe is only at the end of it's early growth stages; and this so-called 'end' is only part of RuneScape's next and hopefully larger beginning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All in all it's a good article, but I feel it's too soon to make pronouncements on the 'final outcome' (what some players seem to want) of the future of what is still a rapidly growing company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In that sense the Editor is correct to conclude the article with a rhetorical question, since none of us can predict what the future holds for Jagex or for RuneScape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Long live RuneScape. Congratulations to the Editor on an obviously thought provoking article.

[lordfizzy]

this game is a cash cow for paul and andrew and they know it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

easy money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what will happen by way of gravity, and as all games get a facelift from better hardware -- this game will fall by the wayside due to horribly outdated graphics. I mean, they are already outdated.

 

 

 

the graphics in runescape we all know get credit for being java...but...

 

 

 

one day soon enough this game will start to become quite secondary as all other games are more willing to upgrade their core graphic engines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sad to say but it is becoming reality every day. we are all consumers and we like to get what we pay for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex either need to go for a full 3-d rendering graphics engine or watch their creation dwindle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

paul and andrew need to take care of their baby and let it grow up the right way by advancing the technical aspect and GRAPHICAL content.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt paul and andrew may have expected this game way back in classic free play to ever get to the point it is. but if it has anything to do with personal or corporate decisions, it will be to take this game to the next level.

 

 

 

EVERYONE in the world knows this is a fun game, and EVERYONE knows this game stinks in the way of the graphics. put a good game like it is and add great graphics and you will have a winner, and a contender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if not, even the most dedicated player may be window shopping before too long. GRAPHICS = EYE CANDY. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They just need to get on with the game engine, require 15$ a month and go for the big time or be the proud owners of the worlds largest daycare center.

[neonihilist]

I really hope Jagex sticks to java and doesn't raise the price of membership faster than inflation, otherwise everyone like me who doesn't own their own computer won't be able to play any more, and wont want to pay for memebership. From what I've seen of other MMORPG graphics Runescape's graphics arn't that bad, just different. I gues it's a matter of taste, some people like different graphics from what other people like.

[Brodie9]

HELLO TIP IT!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a long time Times reader, an even longer time calcs and guides user, and a first time poster. I could never be bothered to register (which turned out to be super easy :P) until I read this article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couple things to say...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First off, in the posts I read (which was over half) on this thread I saw a lot of people saying "Well I started out at X age and now am Y age and I still play!!!"

 

 

 

To that I'd like to say what about the hundreds of people that started at the same age as you and aren't here to back you on that point? Of course there's going to be a few people who play for a long time, but The Editor's right in saying most younger players will leave early.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second, I very much enjoy the grafics we have. I tried playing WoW at a friend's house the other day and personally I thought the grafics were too much. All that time they could have spend bettering the game content...

 

 

 

Then again, this is coming from someone who played RSC for 3-4 months after RS2 came out :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And so, in closing, I'll add a big THANK YOU to The Editor for all the great articles.

 

 

 

Keep up the good work! I look forward to reeding the next one :mrgreen:

[lavirylime]

this game is a cash cow for paul and andrew and they know it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

easy money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what will happen by way of gravity, and as all games get a facelift from better hardware -- this game will fall by the wayside due to horribly outdated graphics. I mean, they are already outdated.

 

 

 

the graphics in runescape we all know get credit for being java...but...

 

 

 

one day soon enough this game will start to become quite secondary as all other games are more willing to upgrade their core graphic engines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sad to say but it is becoming reality every day. we are all consumers and we like to get what we pay for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex either need to go for a full 3-d rendering graphics engine or watch their creation dwindle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

paul and andrew need to take care of their baby and let it grow up the right way by advancing the technical aspect and GRAPHICAL content.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt paul and andrew may have expected this game way back in classic free play to ever get to the point it is. but if it has anything to do with personal or corporate decisions, it will be to take this game to the next level.

 

 

 

EVERYONE in the world knows this is a fun game, and EVERYONE knows this game stinks in the way of the graphics. put a good game like it is and add great graphics and you will have a winner, and a contender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if not, even the most dedicated player may be window shopping before too long. GRAPHICS = EYE CANDY. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They just need to get on with the game engine, require 15$ a month and go for the big time or be the proud owners of the worlds largest daycare center.

 

 

 

Erm, I sure it's safe to say that most (if not all) of the RuneScape players still play because the graphics aren't intolerable and the gameplay itself outweighs the visual appeal. One of the reasons why Jagex is successful is because Java is cross-platform & browser agnostic and easily targets those with older computers.

[groovy140]

I really enjoyed the article and could understand and connect with the subject, but the part about the creators moving onto another product, building another game was the most interesting to me. Runescape is such a complex and sophisticated game design. The economy of the game is so incredible and realistic it overwelms me sometimes. The economy isnt the only thing thats impressive though, the history, civilizations, everything about the game is impressive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It must have been alot of work to make this game, and prehaps the deepest and most creative ideas and subjects that the designers could come up with. So if the creators put everything they could imagine into this game, where else would they go?

 

 

 

Surely they have thought about other things they would like to do and have other interests besides that which the game is based on, but to what extent?

[neonihilist]

The economy would be far more realistic if a few major clans produced all the goods and payed their members for less to make them than they sell them for, then the clan leadership could make a huge profit and controll 90% of the wealth.

[Warstarter2]

Wow.. If Andrew and Paul goes from Jagex, I don't think I would play RuneScape anymore..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This article made me think, a very well written article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, I knew that you could run with the CTRL button \

[groovy140]

hahaha thats true

 

 

 

but other than the autocracy that we experiance, you must admit how awesome the economical set up in runescape is.