Tip.It Times Presents: Growing Pains

[monkeyboo2]

 

 

 

 

it's unlikely that a 12 or 13 year old will maintain their interest in the game that long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, so, true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I started when i was 12, i will be 15 in may. I dont think that that is true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When people try to guess my age, they normally say 18+.

[monkeyboo2]

Good read, thanks for publishing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do feel that RuneScape is too commercialized these days. RuneScape has lost a lot of Andrew's personal touch; he is now operating Jagex from a business point of view.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In competition, Jagex disallows the discussions of other MMOs on the forums. IMO, that is very narrow-minded. Jagex is implying that those who think other games are better than RuneScape should be lined up against a wall and shot. No, censoring other games will not help the competition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In comparision, many other companies, such as 3D Realms and Wicked Lasers, allow the discussion of competitors' products.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex also no longer participates in community involvement. I guess this is to prevent acusations of favoritism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Jagex no longer lists fan sites for security reasons, although some see this as a move to depart from the community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Player achievements: Jagex used to use system messages to announce achievements and player events, such as the wedding of Ladymedusa and M_Oldfield. (http://ladymedusamoldfield.50megs.com)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Jagex used to publically welcome new staff, but no longer does so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Jagex announced the real life wedding of Lady Pooh and Topcat0711, as well as that of Pugxsi and Jenstarr. However, these were removed, presumably because it conflicts with Jagex's now existing rule 13. The passing of Siw39 was announced, but was also removed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since RS has grown so much, Jagex can't really do these things without being unfair. :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, they really used to do that? Back with player announcements then?

[M3Under]

A very good article. It's also no wonder the editor chose to keep his/her name undisclosed, it went so in depth on all the problems that are going on and the players have no idea about. I also agree with littlejhonnyboy, I started playing when I was 14 and I'm 17 now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I'm still interested in the game due to the skills I need to keep training, I wonder what it will be like when I have nothing to train anymore, I have never been a member and don't plan on being one. The lack of f2p updates might drive some players away...again adding to the "hidden" downfall of Jagex. Not to mention the noobs (begginers, 14yrs below) which are really annoying most of the time. I'd really like to see more maturity in this game, but then again that's just my oppinion :

[Ginger_Warrior]

Another great article, then again I've come to expect nothing less. Editor, you articulate the feelings of the vast majority of players on these forums - don't listen to others who tell otherwise. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having said that, I did disagree with one minor point in your article, but everyone seems to have focused on it so I'll correct you nonetheless. You mentioned that people may only pay by themselves at the age of 18. That may be true for US banks (I'm not sure), but Jagex does accept SMS, Telephone and SOLO transactions for payment towards membership. Nearly all 12/13 year olds have mobiles, so can pay by SMS; and most UK banks will issue their younger teens with a SOLO payment option on the Card that comes with their account. I personally have played RS since I was 15, paying by SOLO. Therefore, I don't think the statement about younger players playing free on F2P worlds is actually correct, and I think that argument is unfair to younger players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, your message of the article still remains true. Although, the last paragraph was shades from my posts on your last article lol. :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it highlights one thing, and one tragic mistake Andrew made from the beginning. They should have really known who their target audience was before they even contemplated designing the game. It's part of the Design Process - a Specification for the product. This vital step seems to have been missed, or entirely ignored. Either way, Jagex started off as a game that appealed to older players, and now it's definetely been reversed to younger players. This isn't bad in itself, but it's produced a game with two different age groups and therefore two different ideologies and attitudes towards gaming and RS - and it's gone to the point where there's massive arguments about the future of RS, with Jagex in the middle, seemingly incapable of pleasing either side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Specification was never made. Therefore, the target audience was never specified, or has become inconsistent. The bickering over "noobs", "pures" and "kids" is a result of this - it just seems to have only come to the public attention now, probably as the ratio of younger players : older players increases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said in reply to your last article, Jagex needs to make it's mind up now. Not in a few years, or in a few months - NOW

[Geadas]

Well, that is actually i really don't want to happen. I am 21 years old now and still playing, i started like three years ago, and for now i don't have any reason to leave this game, still the game interface is somewhat aimed to childs, the game holds such deepness what could be realized and fully understood by mature people. If things going to change, and the audience they aim to is young kids, i think they gonna get themselves to financial trouble, cause only mature people has money and means to pay. As far as i played, i've met 54 years old judge playing runescape, he told his son got him into it :D , also some other guys, paving their paths pretty long in theirs life..

 

 

 

I can't say the game community is too immature for now, and i really don't want jagex to aim their game to childs. I suggest them seriously think about upcommin updates, that can cause unexpected players reaction..

[Ginger_Warrior]

Well, that is actually i really don't want to happen. I am 21 years old now and still playing, i started like three years ago, and for now i don't have any reason to leave this game, still the game interface is somewhat aimed to childs, the game holds such deepness what could be realized and fully understood by mature people. If things going to change, and the audience they aim to is young kids, i think they gonna get themselves to financial trouble, cause only mature people has money and means to pay. As far as i played, i've met 54 years old judge playing runescape, he told his son got him into it :D , also some other guys, paving their paths pretty long in theirs life..

 

 

 

I can't say the game community is too immature for now, and i really don't want jagex to aim their game to childs. I suggest them seriously think about upcommin updates, that can cause unexpected players reaction..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, as much as I'd like to agree with you on that last sentance, even I have to bite my tongue and say that seemingly no amount of player reaction can deter Jagex from it's current "I feel like doing that kinda update today" attitude. Unless it's in real life... but this beig a world of MMORPGs this simply will never happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, as mentioned in my post, it's not just people above the age of 18 that can pay. In the UK, you are actually legally allowed to work at the age of 14 upwards, in most non-dangerous jobs part-time. But since as membership costs only ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã3.20, why would you need a full-time job? Therefore, most "kids" can play, especially considering even those players who don't have jobs have pocket money usually, or their parents pay for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't be so naÃÆÃâÃâïve to think that just because older players quit, Jagex becomes financially doomed...

[aquariusman]

I agree that most of the younger players can be EXTREMELY immature, but sometimes the older players can be even more immature. 20 year olds are the ones that do THE most idiotic things I have ever seen, however I'm sure that alchohol is somewhat involved. IMO, three quarters of Runescape is made up of kids. Not adults or even youths, but kids. This would be alright if these kids were mature, but maybe 1 out of 10 is mature. These kids are the ones that use 1337 speak and have names like S3x pl0x or other things like that. I know half of what i just say is completely obvious, but that doesnt matter. What does matter is that Runescape should be aimed back at the 20 year olds, or even just the mature people. Make immaturity a crime and end this endless onslaught of immature, baby-sat, little kids who need a parent just to log them on.

[jondea0]

Apparently you went over the heads of the younger players, Editor, but that shouldn't surprise you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great article, and spot on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

most young players

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

good article although i disagree with several things

[Geadas]

 

 

 

Firstly, as much as I'd like to agree with you on that last sentance, even I have to bite my tongue and say that seemingly no amount of player reaction can deter Jagex from it's current "I feel like doing that kinda update today" attitude. Unless it's in real life... but this beig a world of MMORPGs this simply will never happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, as mentioned in my post, it's not just people above the age of 18 that can pay. In the UK, you are actually legally allowed to work at the age of 14 upwards, in most non-dangerous jobs part-time. But since as membership costs only ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã3.20, why would you need a full-time job? Therefore, most "kids" can play, especially considering even those players who don't have jobs have pocket money usually, or their parents pay for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't be so naÃÆÃâÃâïve to think that just because older players quit, Jagex becomes financially doomed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, i don't live in the UK, and i was able to make myself a member only then i got my age to 18 to make a card, because this is the cheapest and most convenient way. As for others, they are not members, cause they parents do not trust to use their cards on makin a member, they do not have any other ways to make a membership. All right, u can use e-gold, we have an ability to transfer money to e-gold acc, but that is very tricky. u need to do a lot of additional e-mailing, bank walkin' and so on.. and this way costs much more. So, maybe jagex will not find itself in finacial trouble :D, but if they start to do things more childly, they will obviously loose <18 players and their money.

[sonowar]

I think it was a great artical, well written and making a realy good point. I am 17 and have been playing for almost 2 years. Im currently studying for A-levels and have found I have much less time on my hands. As such, I am having to decide weather runescape is worth the effort. In the beginnig I would have shouted 'Yes of course!' - as would quite a few in my classes. However with these progressivly more child orientated updates (one of my persnal OMG! moments was the security dungeon - If that wasnt aimed at the thirteen year olds, then jagex obviosly thinks the rest of us are senile and need reminding) everyone I know in the RW has dropped out, one by one. I hope jagex sorts out their prioritys and decides weather they want to atract the younger audience, or to keep us older players. And come to think of it, if they avoid the younger audience, not only do they keep the maturer audience happy, but guess wot, young people grow up! - and when they do, they will join in. And realy, the older people are more likely to devote time and P2P money to the game, as older people tend to be more consistant with there opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s - sorry about the spelling - im rubish at english :D

[Firepower205]

Couldnt of said it better myself. =D>

[Ginger_Warrior]

 

 

 

 

Firstly, as much as I'd like to agree with you on that last sentance, even I have to bite my tongue and say that seemingly no amount of player reaction can deter Jagex from it's current "I feel like doing that kinda update today" attitude. Unless it's in real life... but this beig a world of MMORPGs this simply will never happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, as mentioned in my post, it's not just people above the age of 18 that can pay. In the UK, you are actually legally allowed to work at the age of 14 upwards, in most non-dangerous jobs part-time. But since as membership costs only ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã3.20, why would you need a full-time job? Therefore, most "kids" can play, especially considering even those players who don't have jobs have pocket money usually, or their parents pay for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't be so naÃÆÃâÃâïve to think that just because older players quit, Jagex becomes financially doomed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, i don't live in the UK, and i was able to make myself a member only then i got my age to 18 to make a card, because this is the cheapest and most convenient way. As for others, they are not members, cause they parents do not trust to use their cards on makin a member, they do not have any other ways to make a membership. All right, u can use e-gold, we have an ability to transfer money to e-gold acc, but that is very tricky. u need to do a lot of additional e-mailing, bank walkin' and so on.. and this way costs much more. So, maybe jagex will not find itself in finacial trouble :D, but if they start to do things more childly, they will obviously loose <18 players and their money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've still not denied that kids, even those living in the US, can still subscribe via text messaging (Jagex probably invented that system exactly as a solution to the card problem you speak of). And don't tell me we can't... my 14 year old brother pays that way. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thus, losing a vast bulk of the over 18s would not have any financial complications for Jagex, when twice as many younger players subscribe for every one that goes...

[Ginger_Warrior]

I think it was a great artical, well written and making a realy good point. I am 17 and have been playing for almost 2 years. Im currently studying for A-levels and have found I have much less time on my hands. As such, I am having to decide weather runescape is worth the effort. In the beginnig I would have shouted 'Yes of course!' - as would quite a few in my classes. However with these progressivly more child orientated updates (one of my persnal OMG! moments was the security dungeon - If that wasnt aimed at the thirteen year olds, then jagex obviosly thinks the rest of us are senile and need reminding) everyone I know in the RW has dropped out, one by one. I hope jagex sorts out their prioritys and decides weather they want to atract the younger audience, or to keep us older players. And come to think of it, if they avoid the younger audience, not only do they keep the maturer audience happy, but guess wot, young people grow up! - and when they do, they will join in. And realy, the older people are more likely to devote time and P2P money to the game, as older people tend to be more consistant with there opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s - sorry about the spelling - im rubish at english :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I too am doing A levels, one of which is Modern History (and that subject takes A LOT of extra time), and I find myself asking the very same questions. I have also got so many other things apart from college - my GF and just generally going out really. I find myself increasingly contemplating whether to stay or not, but I've never backed down from a fight, and I don't intend to break the habit now!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, what you said in that post is perfect. There is no way Jagex, I feel, can justify the security stronghold as an attempt to appeal to older players - we already know the ins and outs of Internet security. Hell, some of us have actually made the Internet what it is today. It's the younger ones that need reminding about the outside, vicious world lol!

[Drawde_3]

Insightful. I prefer this type of article to an other. This Editor has my congrats.

[Xorack]

Great article, and, although I agree that a many of the recent updates have been aimed at kids, I still love RS and I doubt that Paul and/ or Andrew will just "give up" so easily...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Anyway, isn't the average age of a P2P player still over 20?) :?:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of this time of "growing pains" there are 2 options of what will remain: a great game, or a complete failure. Whatever happens, I don't plan on leaving runescape any time soon and I hope that others won't give up on it as well.

[Zarfay]

 

the did you know thing is lame i never learn anything there all basic facts :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way, but do not assume that just because YOU know something, that everyone else knows it too. We have new players reading the Times as well, and I'm certain many of those people did not know about the CTRL + click trick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Calling something "lame" because you personally didn't learn anything is not the kind of feedback that is constructive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And please, if all you can think of to post is flaming comments about our Editor and the others that use our forums, we'd rather you'd not post at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that was my personal opinion i never said i was speaking for everyone... geez your worse than the rs forums were everyone flames me for making a point of view

[D. V. Devnull]

I'll deal with this first:

 

 

 

And why is it wrong to look at the company side of it? I mean, we live in a capitalistic country after all.

 

 

 

wachtwoord, any company that focuses too much on gaining money is set up to die. 'Nuff said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, for the main topic:

 

 

 

I congratulate "The Editor" again on yet another good article. They pinned the tail right on the donkey. (I know, I pulled from an old game name on that.) I personally hope that they don't keep aiming entirely at younger players. When I started RuneScape back when I was still 22 or 23, I felt rather alienated at age 24 by a lot of their recent game layout changes. (Especially the "Pure Ess Update", the "Interface Change Update" and the "Pop-up Info Items Update"!) I personally used to really like the game, but now I only stick around due to friends on the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To Jagex:

 

 

 

Before it is too late, start taking older players back into account, and put some maturity back into the game design. Review your changes, you WILL find that some need to be undone. I've named 3 above that I know caused a truely bad impact. It has become a known fact that your changes only affected legal players, not the macros and autos ... and then to leave it this way only just infuriates me and many others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Mr. Devnull

[romking]

i cant imagine Andrew and Paul both jus quitting all a suuden on rs

 

 

 

they have been with rs for to long im ptetty sure its to late for dat now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i have not been around rs long so i dont really noticed the things there doing to make it more aimed for a younger audience

 

 

 

anyone wana give some examples

[Cistron]

I just got through reading the TipIt Times editor's newest article. It was very thought provoking and induced me to provide a quick note on a very accurate observation of Jagex's current market position. I agree wholeheartedly with the editor's remarks and myself being a business major do have some expertise on market trends feel that Jagex should be more focused on the customer and their needs and not the bottom line. They need to find a happy medium that will please both the accountants and the players of Runescape. It is entirely possible to such as evidenced by such companies as Dell Computers, which of course more than survived the dot com craze it outgrew some of the more situated more bigger companies. I hope I didn't bore too many of you RS players with my comments. All in all I really enjoy reading the editor's weekly aritcles as the are both enlightening and entertaining.

[zaquierming]

Great article, well said.

[smiles]

A very nicely put article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would, however, like to make a comment regarding the credit cards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mentioned in the article, and several people have mentioned here, that players would have to wait til the age of 18 to pay by the quickest method: credit cards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can I just say that I am 16, and pay with my debit card, which is as cheap and easy as paying with credit cards. Any debit cards can be used, I believe, which means that with some banks anyone from the age of 12/13 can pay by card. Whether this is a wise move or not is another matter...but I was jut pointing it out :

[Duke_Freedom]

I'll deal with this first:

 

 

 

And why is it wrong to look at the company side of it? I mean, we live in a capitalistic country after all.

 

 

 

wachtwoord, any company that focuses too much on gaining money is set up to die. 'Nuff said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with a company focussing on gaining money, as long as it keeps a long-term vision in mind.

[Azzazeal]

Good article. However I wouldnt count Andrew and Paul out yet as Runescape is still very much their baby. However they do need to realise that their baby is growing up and they need to guide it in thr right direction to make it grow into an adult,(I don't mean swear/dirty hear) well established game. And the time to guide it into that Adulthood is now wether they make the right choices reamains to be seen.

[im1knight]

 

 

 

 

it's unlikely that a 12 or 13 year old will maintain their interest in the game that long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, so, true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well...i play rs for nearly 2 years now and im 13 years old... i never quit GO RS GO!

[fattyking]

After reading many of the arguments, I'd just like to say some of my personal opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, I agree with Ginger Warrior. Just because older players are quitting, jagex will not lose money. Younger kids are able to pay if they really want to (most of the time). For example, they can use different paying methods than a credit card, or have an older friend pay for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But my opinion is that just because jagex is making money, doesn't mean they are making a good game for everyone. They should be focused less on getting more players, and more on improving the game. And I don't mean adding new quests and skills. I mean changing vital parts of the game, such as the banking system and the chat system. For example, you can look at games like World of Warcraft. Many people play it because it is a well designed game, not because it is a well advertised game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the moment, I am fed up with what jagex has been doing lately, and feel as if I am wasting my money. I have been familiar with runescape for about 5 years now, and what I have been seeing lately has been disappointing. When the end of this month is here, I will be canceling my membership along with many other long time players to try to send the message to jagex that these changes may be good for the company, but are not good for the game.