A SERIOUS forum

[no_username4]

Ok, it seems to me that every time an interesting topic gets posted in the general section, it ends up as a spamfest.

 

As far as I can tell, the reasons for this are:

 

1. People have horrid grammar and spelling.

 

2. People don't read any posts. This means the first page alone can have almost identical posts.

 

3. People post off topic.

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=648729

 

 

 

The above topic poses a very interesting question. Unfortunately, it is now deluged with poor, reiterated and off topic posts

 

 

 

I propose a serious forum, for the purpose of discussing various topics on an intellectual level. The rules in this forum would basically be:

 

1. No flaming, spamming or trolling. No tolerance.

 

2. No reposts.

 

3. NO off topic.

 

4. Intellectual thinking would be required. Basically, reiterating the same argument in a debate over and over would result in a ban, lock, or post deletion.

 

 

 

With the availability of such a forum, interested parties could have discussions, without worrying about constant clutter and spam.

[tripsis]

Those are pretty much the rules on the entire forum already :P Moderators are not invincible demigods with a spam-radar. If you see a post or thread that if off-topic/flamy/spammy or inappropriate, report it so a moderator can take care of it.

[hellbellz]

I report threads a lot, Trip. Sometimes it can take up to 10 minutes for it to be locked. I know mods arn't al-mighty locking machines spambusters. Mods and Admins do as good as they can. You can't always have mature people on these forums. :|

[Albosky]

You can't always have mature people on these forums.

 

 

 

Your last post said exactly why this will never happen no matter what the forum rules are .

 

 

 

 

 

It has absolutely little to do with the rules, the tolerance level , or the discussion subject, there will ALWAYS be somebody who doesn't agree and isn't mature enough to type a proper civilized reply.

 

 

 

Humans suck at interacting with other humans, we always have and we always will.

[Bauke]

It's not the interaction itself what causes the problem, but the enourmous variety in people being on these forums. You have them all... from young ignorant children to very bright intellectual people.

 

 

 

Learn to live with it... it's what I do.

 

 

 

If you want an intellectual forum, you'd have to create one yourself and have firm rules and don't tolerate childish behaviour. I don't think TIF is aiming specifically at one group of people.

[Errdoth]

Moderators are not invincible demigods with a spam-radar.

 

 

 

As far as we know, that is. :-w

[mrmyk]

well do you expect EVERYONE to read EVERY post in threads?

 

people post their opinion or give an answer and that is all that is needed. If people post something similar then there is nothing wrong. If it is answering a question, 2 answers are better than 1 and if it's another kind of thread it is fine too :)

[Cruiser]

well do you expect EVERYONE to read EVERY post in threads?

 

people post their opinion or give an answer and that is all that is needed. If people post something similar then there is nothing wrong. If it is answering a question, 2 answers are better than 1 and if it's another kind of thread it is fine too :)

 

 

 

If people would read the thread, we wouldn't have these problems.

 

 

 

An example of this idiocy is the thread in T&C bringing up that XP will eventually be discontinued. The OP was misinformed and thought it would be killed off completely next year, which was incorrect. This was cleared up on page 2 and the thread was beginning to fall into obscurity when someone comes along, doesn't bother reading the whole thread and starts the whole misinformed "OMG TATS NT COOL" cycle all over again.

 

 

 

Read the damn thread, or at least skim it for addition information. It'll more than likely save you from looking like an echo and an idiot.

[no_username4]

I have been to forums where this has worked. It can work.

 

One forum I have been to had as much spam and stupidity (and all that stuff I mentioned earlier) as this place, or even more. There was, however, one area where that kind of junk is not tolerated. It was serious, and when people spammed, their posts got deleted. People never posted without reading the thread, especially not when it was still a 1-pager.

 

The mods there read every single post. This was possible because there were fewer overall posts, due to the lack of poor posts.

 

 

 

Childish behavior was not tolerated, and would typically get a one day ban, or worse for repeated offences.

 

 

 

I'm not asking for an overall forum overhaul, just one area where intelligent discussion can happen.

[Gin_and_Tonic]

What one person sees as spam/unconstructive response, another may see as a perfectly sensible one.

 

 

 

Eg; 'Should F2p get skill capes'.

 

Response 1;-'No bcuz f2p sux n dnt pay for em'

 

 

 

In theory, the response is constructive, but the way he presents it may not be.

[no_username4]

Meh, I had hoped that tip.it could choose smart mods to make wise decisions regarding this forum.

 

Guess it's not gonna happen. :cry:

[Bauke]

Just because they disagree doesn't mean they're not wise... That statement is not very constructive in a discussion.

[no_username4]

What are you talking about? You didn't just read the first post, did you?

[Cruiser]

He's more than likely commenting on this:

 

Meh, I had hoped that tip.it could choose smart mods to make wise decisions regarding this forum.

 

Which doesn't really further your cause when you imply Tip.It didn't choose smart staff.

[no_username4]

I did not mean that.

 

 

 

What I meant was that I had hoped that tip.it could choose mods appropriate for this type of moderation. That is, to acknowledge what is and is not actual "intelligent" discussion and make decisions likewise. If this was the case, the problem presented earlier:

What one person sees as spam/unconstructive response, another may see as a perfectly sensible one.

 

 

 

Eg; 'Should F2p get skill capes'.

 

Response 1;-'No bcuz f2p sux n dnt pay for em'

 

 

 

In theory, the response is constructive, but the way he presents it may not be.

 

Would be solved, as the mods would be given the power of discretion. Something like that would get deleted. As for borderline cases, tip.it would have to choose moderators who would make the best decisions. Some would be controversial, but the mods would be counted on to do a generally good job.

 

 

 

Al the little details and problems pointed out here would be worked out.

 

Again, I've seen this work before, and it worked because the administration chose moderators who were well suited for the job.

 

 

 

Sorry, I was not calling our staff unintelligent or foolish.

[Bauke]

Well I think you should read Albosky's reply again. You are right, but what you want will not work on this forums.

[no_username4]

You can't always have mature people on these forums.

 

 

 

Your last post said exactly why this will never happen no matter what the forum rules are .

 

 

 

 

 

It has absolutely little to do with the rules, the tolerance level , or the discussion subject, there will ALWAYS be somebody who doesn't agree and isn't mature enough to type a proper civilized reply.

 

 

 

Humans suck at interacting with other humans, we always have and we always will.

 

That is why the moderators would have a final say.

 

The idea is for the moderators to read every post, and delete the clearly immature ones.

 

 

 

I know we can't ALWAYS have mature people, that's why I want one mature area.

[tripsis]

That is why the moderators would have a final say.

 

The idea is for the moderators to read every post, and delete the clearly immature ones.

 

 

 

I know we can't ALWAYS have mature people, that's why I want one mature area.

 

 

 

Do you realize how much work/effort that would take on our part? :? As a moderator we already have a lot to do, try adding on a whole other forum and have to read every single post on every single thread, clean of the unnecessary or spammy posts day in and day out.. It's a lot of work. We have lives that we need to attend to as well :wall:

[The_Sith]

To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing this be tried at least once. I do agree that the staff is being worked very hard already but there are some ways around that. Those who wish to participate in this type of discussion will most likely want their threads to stay clean and flame-free, right? Aside from the fact that most users who post using numbers more than letters will avoid such a board, all the author has to do is report responses that he/she deems silly/childish. Viewing and dealing with reports as a moderator is quite simple so as long as people don't go overboard with the tool, it should work out alright...

 

 

 

Simply place a few stickies on the board ensuring that people know it is a serious forum for discussion purposes only, and that authors sort of "manage" their own threads with Tip.it staff intervening when appropriate. Rather than have Staff manage the board and make sure people's threads stay neat and tidy, I think it should be up to the author - that way it feels more "debate-style" with the author as the mediator. And it saves the actual forum moderators some work.

[no_username4]

That is why the moderators would have a final say.

 

The idea is for the moderators to read every post, and delete the clearly immature ones.

 

 

 

I know we can't ALWAYS have mature people, that's why I want one mature area.

 

 

 

Do you realize how much work/effort that would take on our part? :? As a moderator we already have a lot to do, try adding on a whole other forum and have to read every single post on every single thread, clean of the unnecessary or spammy posts day in and day out.. It's a lot of work. We have lives that we need to attend to as well :wall:

 

1.Where I have seen this work the topics were shorter and fewer, because the few people who did spam were given heavy warnings.(repeat offenders got temporary short bans) This meant that less time was required to moderate the few posts.

 

2. If you guys are stretched, I think you should just get a few more moderators. That's just my opinion though.

 

 

 

To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing this be tried at least once. I do agree that the staff is being worked very hard already but there are some ways around that. Those who wish to participate in this type of discussion will most likely want their threads to stay clean and flame-free, right? Aside from the fact that most users who post using numbers more than letters will avoid such a board, all the author has to do is report responses that he/she deems silly/childish. Viewing and dealing with reports as a moderator is quite simple so as long as people don't go overboard with the tool, it should work out alright...

 

 

 

Simply place a few stickies on the board ensuring that people know it is a serious forum for discussion purposes only, and that authors sort of "manage" their own threads with Tip.it staff intervening when appropriate. Rather than have Staff manage the board and make sure people's threads stay neat and tidy, I think it should be up to the author - that way it feels more "debate-style" with the author as the mediator. And it saves the actual forum moderators some work.

 

That might work too.

[Cruiser]

1.Where I have seen this work the topics were shorter and fewer, because the few people who did spam were given heavy warnings.(repeat offenders got temporary short bans) This meant that less time was required to moderate the few posts.

 

People need to stop using this as a reason. Just because it has worked in other places, does not mean it will work here. We already have 'serious' discussion inside the separate forums. We don't need yet another board just so we can centralize these 'serious' threads.

 

2. If you guys are stretched, I think you should just get a few more moderators.

 

It's rather easy for you to say that. Finding suitable users for the job is a whole different story.

 

 

 

Even Sithy's author reporting idea more than likely wouldn't fly very far for the same reasons user moderated threads wouldn't. The second an author disagrees with replys, he starts flooding the report system with opinion related reports and we're back to square one, a moderator controlled board, just like the rest.

 

 

 

I seriously don't see the point in this. Why again can't you just report the idiots in a normal thread found in the proper category?

[Striker6]

There is a 'debate club' you may have noticed where serious discussion often evolves and there is rarely spam or inept venting but genuine discussion. But where do you draw the line at a serious post? Just because someone can use 'firefox spellcheck' does not mean they are intelligent. I honestly don't think that there needs to be another board devoted to another strand of discussion as this worsens the community by segregating it even more.

[Freesia]

Mostly reposting only occurs when posts already stating the point is not read at all. For me, I really dislike reading posts that are:

 

1) No paragraphing. 1 chunk of words extending up to 10 lines+ is extremely annoying to read.

 

2)Improper spelling, I can still tolerate minor spelling mistakes but those that are bad enough until you can't interpret what the word is is as well annoying to read.

 

3)Over usage of short forms. Need I explain further.

 

 

 

If that specific post does mention a good point that can be noted among all that chunk, you can't really blame me for reposting it over in a more organised manner. Reading those posts with flaws I mentioned above annoys me. I am not stating that every post should be perfect...

[no_username4]

1.Where I have seen this work the topics were shorter and fewer, because the few people who did spam were given heavy warnings.(repeat offenders got temporary short bans) This meant that less time was required to moderate the few posts.

 

People need to stop using this as a reason. Just because it has worked in other places, does not mean it will work here. We already have 'serious' discussion inside the separate forums. We don't need yet another board just so we can centralize these 'serious' threads.

 

I did not say it WILL work, only that it CAN. I only ask for a chance.

 

 

2. If you guys are stretched, I think you should just get a few more moderators.

 

It's rather easy for you to say that. Finding suitable users for the job is a whole different story.

 

 

 

Even Sithy's author reporting idea more than likely wouldn't fly very far for the same reasons user moderated threads wouldn't. The second an author disagrees with replys, he starts flooding the report system with opinion related reports and we're back to square one, a moderator controlled board, just like the rest.

 

 

 

I seriously don't see the point in this. Why again can't you just report the idiots in a normal thread found in the proper category?

 

I'm sure you would know, because you are a moderator here?

 

I do not endorse Sithy's author idea for those reasons.

 

Many posts don't break the rules elsewhere. The forum I suggested would have stricter rules. Then I would report all the idiots. If I did now, I'd get myself banned.

 

 

 

Repeat posting is not against the rules. Intense idiocy and near illegibility is not against the rules. I think it should be, at least in one forum.

 

 

 

 

Mostly reposting only occurs when posts already stating the point is not read at all. For me, I really dislike reading posts that are:

 

1) No paragraphing. 1 chunk of words extending up to 10 lines+ is extremely annoying to read.

 

2)Improper spelling, I can still tolerate minor spelling mistakes but those that are bad enough until you can't interpret what the word is is as well annoying to read.

 

3)Over usage of short forms. Need I explain further.

 

 

 

If that specific post does mention a good point that can be noted among all that chunk, you can't really blame me for reposting it over in a more organised manner. Reading those posts with flaws I mentioned above annoys me. I am not stating that every post should be perfect...

 

The kind of reposting I'm talking about is where the second post is: "Well I think *blank*"

 

Third post is: "Maybe if you *exactly the same blank as last time*"

 

Fourth post is: "Great idea. Would be better if *the same blank once more*

 

etc.

 

Ninth post is: "You are so stupid idiot. This would never work unless you *yes, the very same thing everybody has already said. Bravo genius. =D> *"

[The_Sith]

no_username, I think your thoughts on this board are a bit too idealistic. I understand your reasoning and your desires for such a board but I just don't see it happening. One of the things I would like to see as a Tip.it staff member is the loosening up of certain forum rules, so things are less restrictive. Your ideal board sounds very oppressive, limiting people so they can't even agree "in a row" with other people unless they do so in a very specific manner.

 

 

 

And there is still the fact that Tip.it staff have to moderate the board. You say that imposing very strict rules would limit the amount of stupidity - but again, the moderators here have to clean that stuff up. Adding more rules to a forum would only make their job harder in the end, as there is more cleaning up to do and more thinking involved when looking at that board. Who decides what the definition of "intense idiocy" is anyways?

 

 

 

To build on what I mentioned just a few lines above, I would like to see quite a few Tip.it rules be removed so the posting environment feels less strict and more enjoyable. While there will always be goofballs on the forums, it is easier for people in a more relaxed environment to create and participate in serious threads rather than forcing rules down their throat. Many people, like the author of this post, have a problem with the extremes on internet communities: intelligent, mature posts versus less thought out, more "post as much as possible" replies. Thinking this way isn't necessarily a bad thing but I don't think the answer is to create a secluded board where people are banned for forgetting to dot their "i's" and cross their "t's."

 

 

 

Instead of adding all sorts of new boards, each with separate rules and regulations, I would like to see some of the forums we have currently merged together, so there is less ambiguity. A lot of the popular forums that center around gaming have specialized boards but also general discussion areas where threads move quite fast. Instead of staff members monitoring and locking down all "stupid" threads, the users decide what threads to keep alive through bumps and replies. That would be my ideal forum, to be honest - less moderation, stronger "flow" of topics, and in the end, more mature discussion.