Sex Offenders Under a Bridge

[Bubsa]

Again, if these were women who molested BOYS. You'd have no such a problem with that.

 

Woah, hang on there. Aren't you the same Grim who told us we're in no position to judge a country of Shariah law, nor its peoples, unless we've experienced it ourselves? And yet you're in the position to tell us that you can simply 'get over' molestation?

 

 

 

There's a diffrence between molestation and a freaking country [smarty pants]. And maybe I speak from experience? Did you ever think about that? OH god, no, why would I?

 

 

 

You don't know me. Don't act like you know me.

 

 

 

Grow up.

 

 

 

Of course, it's totally fine for you to speculate and make assumptions over others, but sound the sirens should anyone do it about you!

 

I don't see much difference at all in the barbaricism of molestation and Shariah law, personally. Lashing a woman who was raped by men she met was the example, wasn't it? Hardly any difference at all.

 

Even if you were speaking from experience (which you're clearly not), I'd find it very hard to believe you seeing as you contradict yourself so much.

 

 

 

I know that some do reform themselves, but I've heard between 75-90% reoffend within a year of their release.

 

 

 

I don't want to be confrontational here, but would you mind trying to find a link or something supporting this? I'd like to see it because, if true, it may change my opinion on the matter, not because I straight up don't believe you.

 

 

 

*Shrug* I just think that the whole system sucks. I've heard of rapists getting 5 years and someone who sold over an ounce of marijuana getting 15. It's just all pretty crazy.

 

 

 

I've seen cases like that too (albeit not for MJ, but for harder and more dangerous drugs) and it really is disturbing. Recently in the UK there was talk of people on the sex offenders register 'missing', ie. the police not knowing where they are, and someone convicted avoiding jail - at least I'm pretty sure that was on the BBC website the other day.

[Lovelydude]

 

 

 

Western countries have this problem of granting everybody excessive rights without remembering what those people have taken away from society.

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by "excessive rights"?

 

 

 

Western societies:

 

 

 

• 
   
  [*:3uxrq1yl]Can spend $100,000+ during the life span of a prisoner just to keep him alive
   
  [*:3uxrq1yl]Exempt serial killers/molesters from the death penalty
   
  [*:3uxrq1yl]Give them 3 meals a day while some people starve to death on the streets
   
  [*:3uxrq1yl]Let prisoners watch TV, play Xbox, listen to music and read books, order pizza..

 

 

 

What kind of a punishment is that? Is that what you wish for the person who abused your child for 3 years and then killed him/her?

 

 

 

Go to third world countries to see what a punishment is. You may think they are primitive, but at least their jails actually make those psychopaths think more than twice about renewing their crime once they get out of jail.

 

 

 

I don't think it's fair for a parent to pass judgement on someone who mistreated their child, and who they don't even know. It's for someone unrelated to the incident (and qualified) to decide what should happen to a criminal.

 

 

 

Just because some people in the world starve doesn't mean that criminals should starve. For someone who is a moderator, you seem to be lacking heathly compassion.

 

 

 

A lot of people seem to spare forgiveness for criminals, but when it comes to sexual offenders they turn into monsters themselves. D:

 

 

 

How is listening to music, reading books, playing games and watching television outweighing the fact that they are in jail. People in jail are surrounded by dangerous people who could decide to endanger their lives at any time, they have little or no contact with the outside world or those they love and every move they make is scrutinised by government employed staff, and the list goes on.

 

 

 

Seriously, have some [cabbagin'] compassion. They are real people y'know.

[Grim_Jokes]

Of course, it's totally fine for you to speculate and make assumptions over others, but sound the sirens should anyone do it about you!

 

I don't see much difference at all in the barbaricism of molestation and Shariah law, personally. Lashing a woman who was raped by men she met was the example, wasn't it? Hardly any difference at all.

 

Even if you were speaking from experience (which you're clearly not), I'd find it very hard to believe you seeing as you contradict yourself so much.

 

 

 

Well, then, open your eyes. I am speaking from experience. But of course, nobody will ever believe that because it was a woman who did it. And we all know how women can get away with anything for as long as they cry that they're mentally unstable.

 

 

 

I was also sexually assaulted. Maybe not as bad, but I got over that. If I could do it, anyone can. And I did it without any therapy.

 

 

 

But if someone kills you? Who can repair that? It's pretty disgusting to think that people respect murderes more than male paedophiles. And don't even know that female pedophiles exist.

[BlueLancer]

 

I don't think it's fair for a parent to pass judgement on someone who mistreated their child, and who they don't even know. It's for someone unrelated to the incident (and qualified) to decide what should happen to a criminal.

 

 

 

Just because some people in the world starve doesn't mean that criminals should starve. For someone who is a moderator, you seem to be lacking heathly compassion.

 

 

 

A lot of people seem to spare forgiveness for criminals, but when it comes to sexual offenders they turn into monsters themselves. D:

 

 

 

How is listening to music, reading books, playing games and watching television outweighing the fact that they are in jail. People in jail are surrounded by dangerous people who could decide to endanger their lives at any time, they have little or no contact with the outside world or those they love and every move they make is scrutinised by government employed staff, and the list goes on.

 

 

 

Seriously, have some [cabbagin'] compassion. They are real people y'know.

 

 

 

If I were in a critical situation under extreme pressure, yeah, I could probably rob or murder, probably most people could.

 

 

 

Do I expect compassion in return? I expect to be punished according to the law (which is approved by most people in that society). I would accept the death penalty, or torture, if I got caught.

 

 

 

People in jail are surrounded by dangerous people who could decide to endanger their lives at any time, they have little or no contact with the outside world

 

 

 

People in jail form even further connections with each other since it's one of the few places they can meet their own kind, drug dealers etc. have extensive connections outside of jail and even if they're in jail for years, those guys inside the jail control drug traffic worth millions of dollars on the outside.

 

 

 

The only exception that I know of are people who abuse children, some of them will recieve serious beatings in jail by other inmates.

 

 

 

That doesn't change my point:

 

 

 

Just because there are people starving on the street, doesn't mean criminals should starve

 

 

 

Why's that? The hardworking guy lost his job in a poor country and dies of starvation, but a guy who stole, abused a child and murdered, gets free housing with tax funds "because he's a human"?

 

 

 

I just don't get it how people can have compassion for them. Just wait until you grow up. When it's your child that gets his/her life ruined, you will be surprised how little compassion you have for these creatures that shouldn't be out of a controlled environment in the first place.

[Mercifull]

No one is saying they should be given free housing and tax funds just that they shouldn't be denied housing and jobs that they pay for because of their past. A past in which they have served their time and released because they were deemed no further risk to society. Stop putting words into peoples mouths and making straw man arguments.

[How2PK]

And while you're at it: could you please stop calling these men and women 'creatures'.

[Nadril]

No one is saying they should be given free housing and tax funds just that they shouldn't be denied housing and jobs that they pay for because of their past. A past in which they have served their time and released because they were deemed no further risk to society. Stop putting words into peoples mouths and making straw man arguments.

 

 

 

Thats the way I feel. As much as I hate child molesters they served their time.

[BlueLancer]

And while you're at it: could you please stop calling these men and women 'creatures'.

 

 

 

I'd call myself a creature for less, but sadly I'll have to disagree with you here.

 

 

 

No one is saying they should be given free housing and tax funds

 

 

 

That's what is happening when they go to "jail". Western "jails" aren't a punishment. I didn't say anything about what happens after they get out, that's the landlords decision if he wants to rent an aparment to such a person.

[Nadril]

Way to just read what you want out of that Lancer.

 

 

 

Merc is not saying we should send them back to jail as they have done the time. We are sayin they should not be denied housing because of their past.

[BlueLancer]

I didn't say they should be denied housing, I don't care what happens to them after jail if they don't truly renew their crime. I was saying when they get into jail, that's not a punishment, compared to a man living on the streets they live in a hotel.

 

 

 

If they're spared the death penalty, at least make the jail time a penalty. Heck in some swedish prisons child molesters and serial killers get access to a library, swimming pool, food around the clock, bathrooms...

 

 

 

Why the hell do they deserve that? That's not jail. That's a hotel funded by people like you who pay taxes. They got those things exactly because people like you think they deserve it while they're in jail.

 

 

 

At least poorer countries have this good side that they don't have much tax funds, and therefore their jails consist of a cell with a bed. You get some bread and water every day and can visit the toilet under the supervision of an armed guard. If you're lucky you get to walk on the yard outside once a week.

[Mercifull]

Stop changing the subject. I am totally with you about harshening conditions inside of jails but save that for another thread.

 

 

 

This topic has nothing to do with jailing or sentencing for people, this is about released people who are forced to be homeless and without jobs due to restrictions placed on them by the government.

[Nadril]

Stop changing the subject. I am totally with you about harshening conditions inside of jails but save that for another thread.

 

 

 

This topic has nothing to do with jailing or sentencing for people, this is about released people who are forced to be homeless and without jobs due to restrictions placed on them by the government.

 

 

 

Exactly. We know nothing of their jailing sentance so stop trying to use it to avoid the actual disucsion.

[BlueLancer]

without jobs [/b]due to restrictions placed on them by the government.

 

 

 

Move to another town or country.

 

 

 

It's not the employers problem, most employers don't accept felon convicts or people with a criminal record, why should these people be an exception?

 

 

 

It's not like they're the only ones living under bridges. Look at people who are homeless because they don't have a job, education, money, nothing.

 

 

 

What's so harsh about it?

[Nadril]

without jobs [/b]due to restrictions placed on them by the government.

 

 

 

Move to another town or country.

 

 

 

They kind of have GPS trackers on them, they couldn't get far.

[Mercifull]

What if the restrictions placed upon them doesn't let them leave the state or country? There are too many factors that could be in play here. You do not know the conditions of their sentence and release, why there were jailed or anything about them. Take this hypothetical example of a 21 year old male and 16 year old female. Two consenting people but parents do not approve. Jail-able sentence for the male and put on sex offenders list for life. Not a pedophile or molestor but would still have the restrictions on them like the others to possibly be forced to be homeless on his release. You do not have the right to make generalisations about how these people should be punished even after their release.

[BlueLancer]

Take this hypothetical example of a 21 year old male and 16 year old female. Two consenting people but parents do not approve. Jail-able sentence for the male and put on sex offenders list for life. Not a pedophile or molestor but would still have the restrictions on them like the others to possibly be forced to be homeless on his release. You do not have the right to make generalisations about how these people should be punished even after their release.

 

 

 

That's BS, in that case (they're even consenting) the guy shouldn't even get any punishment in the first place.

 

 

 

I was talking about fully grown adults (40+ years) ruining the lives of kids under the age of 10 and so who are the REAL problem of society, not the odd 20 year old guy going out with someone 16 or 17.

 

 

 

I hope you see the moral problems between the two. No I don't agree with putting the 20yo guy on a sex offenders list for life. I was talking about real child abusers. They barely deserve any benefits of the society even after they're released.

[Mercifull]

That's BS, in that case (they're even consenting) the guy shouldn't even get any punishment in the first place.

 

 

 

I was talking about fully grown adults (40+ years) ruining the lives of kids under the age of 10 and so who are the REAL problem of society, not the odd 20 year old guy going out with someone 16 or 17.

 

 

 

I hope you see the moral problems between the two. No I don't agree with putting the 20yo guy on a sex offenders list for life. I was talking about real child abusers. They barely deserve any benefits of the society even after they're released.

 

 

 

You're right it is bs. But there's a guy sitting in jail right now in the UK for doing just that with a 15 year old when he was about 18. Unfortunatly I cant find the article on the BBC about it. I do understand the difference between the two but I do have a problem with you generalising about people who you have no idea of their history. Do you know the background story for those people living under the bridge?... I didnt think so.

[angryjoe]

What we need is The Paedo Finder General

[ortiz9471]

You know, if a these were women who had molested boys; people would cry how unjust society is against women. They'd get help instantly.

 

 

 

Pathetic.

 

 

 

imagin if they had done it to a black man?

[yomom1919]

Simple answer, yes i would

 

 

 

Its not only a simple answer, its stupid.

 

Biggy is trying to have an argument, and so far you admited defeat. Give him an argument please. Justifications, anything.

 

 

 

i dont argue just to entertain the likes of you 2 who are afraid to make your own points and just read what others say. Anyway what he said, and what he quoted me saying are different therefore he "lost" the argument by attempting to create a crap 1.

 

 

 

Apparently, you dont know me very well if you think I'm afraid to argue and state my points. I've stated my peace in this thread already, I dont intend to continue on an old, worn out argument on the lesser of two evils.

 

 

 

If theres one thing I cant stand, its that. When people attempt to win an argument, state their points, and expect to be right by only justifing it with your own personal and self-righteous opinions. If you came here to argue, argue. If you came here to state your "correct" opinion, then leave. You add nothing to the argument or to defend yourself. I'd even go so far as to consider it spam (posting your opinion and leaving while asserting yourself over other posters who put up a somewhat valid argument, atleast give them the respect of answering).

 

 

 

Its nothing against you, people do it all the time. It just really annoys me. Please, next time, dont attack the poster. It shows your unintelligence.

 

 

 

1. No i don't know you and i couldn't care less who you are, you're not above me nor below me so me thinking you're afraid to argue has no relevance to your point

 

2. I have never stated that i was involed in an argument, that i wanted to win and the fact that you see every argument as a chance to better yourself with a victory over someone says many things...

 

3. No opinion is correct or incorrect/right or wrong they are thoughts and can be delivered in anyway shape or form and if i choose not to back up my opinions, defend them or anything else i frankly don't give a damn what others think about them.

 

4. Don't accuse my opinions as SPAM just because you don't agree with them. I have not merely come on this thread and started ranting thoughtlessly. :roll:

 

 

 

1.I never said I was above or below you, you just assumed that I was afraid to argue. I was just defeating your point.

 

2. I dont see every argument as that either, this thread was made to discuss things, they should be discussed.

 

3. I never said you opinion was wrong, i was just stating that if everyone put their opinion up here in a "yes" or "no" fashion, we wouldnt have much of a discussion... which leads me to number four...

 

4. I never said I disagreed with you. I never said or implied you were ranting. I was just stating my belief that, if every topic was answered with a yes or no question, there wouldnt be much of a discussion. I would consider that spam, especially since the point of a forum is to discuss.

 

 

 

Next time, try not to assume as much :wink:

[No_OnE]

I think the scariest thing here is that Deloriagod thinks that the X number of years they were sentanced to is completely fitting for the crime they committed, and that when they've served the time, they should essentially be considered reformed criminals full of remorse, and essentially should be forgiven.

 

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, every rapist/child molester should be put to death. They WILL reoffend and they've already ruined someone's life. Why give them another chance? They're no better than murderers in any way.

 

 

 

Prison is not a place where remorse builds. It is a place where hatred builds. Prison is like the worst system ever invented. If you killed a dude, sorry, you're going to die too. [assault] someone? Okay, death. The only people who actually deserve prison is like...Someone who truely didn't know any better, AKA, the mentally ill. Everyone will go in and come back out even more pissed off, PLUS have a felony on their record, which will make them HAVE to turn to crime to survive. You can't get a job with a felony on your record, and selling drugs and robbing banks is a pretty promising career, assuming you can pull it off. Too bad for the criminals, most of them are far too stupid to pull it off and are caught and tossed in prison. Ever hear of the Tennessee Marijuana Cave? A couple guys built a pot grow operation under a house the guy purchased inside of a natural cave formation...It was about 250 yards long, filled with Marijuana. They were producing so much marijuana that they had to drive to Arizona to hire illegal aliens for a few days, blind folding them to get them there, and then paying them $10/hr to harvest their crop for them over a few days. Know how they were finally caught? Because the guy, in all of his wisdom building this massive fortress to grow pot in (and trust me, it was genius), failed to realize that STEALING ELECTRICITY FROM POWER LINES is the #1 fastest way to get busted doing anything. The guy didn't have enough power to fuel the lights in his operation, so rather than cutting down the operation a little bit, he stole electricity and was busted almost immediately. Got 18 years in federal prison and $61,000 needed to be paid for the stolen electricity. The guy was making 8 million dollars per year off this whole thing (there was three of them, so a couple million a peice, they all owned large houses and boats and cars) and he got greedy and stupid.

 

 

 

I digress, just wanted to tell that story. The point was that criminals are stupid and when they get out of prison, they'll have to reoffend just to survive.

 

I didn't even notice this post until now but I completely disagree. I've heard plenty of stories about people who have gone into prison with a life sentence for committing a murder and they actually do begin to feel guilt and actually do realize that they did something wrong. I'm sure that at the time they committed the murder they knew it was wrong but they didn't care. After being locked up in prison for x amount of years, they began to feel remorse and they began to realize that what they did completely ruined their life. Hatred may build in prison but that doesn't mean the people are going to come out worse off or just as bad as they were when they went in. I'm actually willing to bet that most criminals who go into prison for a long enough time come out corrected. I will say that the prison sentences should be longer for sexual, drug related, or theft crimes. Only with a longer sentence do many people become corrected. Lastly, I think capital punishment is wrong in many cases. I don't see why one person can kill 5 people and get life whereas another person can kill 1 person the same way and get death. I think capital punishment should only be enforced on a criminal in which it is believed by 100% of the jury that the criminal will not reform while in prison. An example of this would be a man named Ted Bundy. They gave him death by the electric chair and I fully support that. There are stories of other people who got the death sentence that I do not agree with. I can't name the exact person and I don't really feel like looking them up but I'm sure there are some. I guess I kind of rambled on a bit but I'm done now.

 

 

 

That's what is happening when they go to "jail". Western "jails" aren't a punishment. I didn't say anything about what happens after they get out, that's the landlords decision if he wants to rent an aparment to such a person.

 

 

 

I wouldn't exactly consider prison to not be a punishment. I think the fact that most prisoners are stuck with the same people in the same place for years at a time can and probably will effect them mentally. You make prison sound like a near utopia. Three meals a day, Xbox, TV, books? What more could one want? I think I would want freedom. The fact that I have books, TV, an Xbox, and even a computer at home doesn't keep me inside all the time. I would go insane if I were forced to be in the same place for years at a time. You're also making the assumption that life in prison isn't bad just because they have the luxuries of people outside of prison excluding freedom, of course. I think I'll go out on a limb and assume that prison life isn't all you make it out to be. I don't think anyone leaves prison saying, "Wow, what a fun place that was. I'd love to back sometime,". I honestly doubt that prison is a fun place to be. I'm willing to bet that prison is punishment. You could always prove us wrong and commit a little theft, go to prison, and then maybe you could tell us about how wonderful it is. Or, if things there are as I perceive them to be, you would come back talking about how it was hell and about how you never want to go back.

[Lime_Mercury]

Well, in my ever so humble opinion, there's probably a couple of problems layered upon one another, and I'll hazard a guess as to what they are. I don't particularly relish looking up the statistics, but I'd assume there is a large enough number of sex offenders in Miami that creating a halfway progam for them is unfeasible; this is probably because the police force is either too small or underpaid, or doesn't have the technology to keep up with the number of parolees that they have to (sure they have GPS, but most likely the coverage of them is thin).

 

 

 

So with a police force that can't really handle the problem, I'm sure the media would be quick to label the situation as out of control, or an epidemic, basically trying to panic the population into believing that predation is a very real and immediate threat. As soon as a careless media does that, and the civilians go into panic mode, they pressure the city council to make ordinances like the one earlier described, basically saying "you can't live/work/play here".

 

 

 

Now this brings out a fork of problems. If you believe that someone is genetically predisposed to predatory behavior, then you'd be infringing on anti-discrimination laws by setting those ordinances, if not more.

 

 

 

All very well, you say, but they are criminals. Very true. As this case takes place in the United States, you have to make some difficult interpretations of the Bill of Rights.

 

 

 

The eighth amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. Now, I'm by no means a Constitutional scholar, but it seems that writing an ordinance restricting where a person can live may be unconstitutional on a couple of levels. If a paroled criminal found a place further than 2500 feet from a place where children congregate, and someone built an arcade within that range, the person would have to move or be in violation of the ordinance.

 

 

 

Such a punishment is arbitrary, one of the tests of cruel and unusual punishment.

 

 

 

Keeping them within the county also may pose problems if they committed the crime within a certain area of the county, because there is no way to protect them from discrimination in trying to get a job or housing to fulfill the requirements of their parole. Even though we have a responsibility to protect the communities we live in, we also have the responsiblity to ensure that all the individuals in that community are equally protected.

 

 

 

Crime of a sexual nature is a problem nobody wants to touch. The line between sexual assault and consentual sex can be so razor thin that an adept lawyer could get a desired verdict by judicious jury selection. It's also unfortunate that sex itself is stigmatized and taboo in American society.

 

 

 

If my employment can be terminated by my drawing a picture a co-worker considers obscene, or if I look at someone in a manner that appears lewd, or perhaps leer at them, then i think the point is well made that the entire system is just as unclear.

 

 

 

So, where do I stand? State or government certified psychiatrists should be the ones determining sentences based on the individual's perceived threat to society. Making the offenders jump through hoops and be homeless does less to deter the recidivism that everyone's worried about than just incarcerating them to fulfill their full sentence and letting them go free once they are done.

 

 

 

I think it's the only way to balance the rights of the individual (criminal or otherwise) with the needs of the community for protection.

[Geordiequeen]

I am sorry to say because even though they are humans they deserve to live under the bridge. Why should the government fork out to build them houses when they have wrecked lives. It is called justice.

[Nadril]

I am sorry to say because even though they are humans they deserve to live under the bridge. Why should the government fork out to build them houses when they have wrecked lives. It is called justice.

 

 

 

No, they already served their time. We aren't saying the government should build them houses but they should be able to live somewhere and not be forced under a bridge.

 

 

 

Again, they already served their time and they were released. Its no longer 'justice'.

[bbalking]

I am sorry to say because even though they are humans they deserve to live under the bridge. Why should the government fork out to build them houses when they have wrecked lives. It is called justice.

 

 

 

No, they already served their time. We aren't saying the government should build them houses but they should be able to live somewhere and not be forced under a bridge.

 

 

 

Again, they already served their time and they were released. Its no longer 'justice'.

 

 

 

Served their time?! Pfft just cos they went to prison for a ridiculously low amount of time it makes it OK for them to be welcomed back into civilisation? We should all just carry on around these twisted lowlife? What about those innocent young victims lives they ruined before they begun eh? "Oh it doesn't matter they've gone to prison it's all fine". Don't be so damn ridiculous, these creatures should be slaughtered before they even get a chance of the luxury that prison is nowadays.