Day 3: Asia's Slaves

[superson]

First off, 4 pages in less than 12 hours? Impressive, but I wish the arguments were a little more civil. Guys, come on, animal rights activists and human rights activists are not enemies, they are in fact allies.

 

 

 

My point exactly. Fighting for one does not negate fighting on behalf of the other (perhaps fighting is a little extreme, especially for animals, but you get the idea).

 

 

 

I've just read the whole debate/argument, and that is pretty much what Defender doesn't understand... You can definetly support human rights and animal rights at the same time, they don't have to be one at a time efforts.

[malo2]

So the best thing the UN can do is buy them back?

 

 

 

Well I didn't know this was happening either, and what this is really making me question is what the world knows. Todays protests are mainly about stem cell research (oh no lifeless embryos are being killed even though they will be destroyed anyway!), animal cruelty, kfc? You see that everywhere nowadays, yet most of us here have not heard about this sex market until you told us about it. Seems far more cruel than animal cruelty, I'd rather be butchered like a pig than perform "mental suicide."

 

 

 

 

Not it's perfectly just, but he didn't need to go so far as to state that animal cruelty protestors were annoying and that their cause is nothing compared to that of the victims of slave trade.

 

We should all care less for animals and more for humans. When there are no injustices among humans let's start caring for the animals. I can promise that I'll protest for the mosquito's right to suck blood when all humans are treated with dignity, fairness and respect.

 

 

 

No need to be an [wagon].

 

 

 

I never said animal rights are more important than human rights and I most certainly never labelled human rights insignificant. You seem to do that to animals though.

 

 

 

[wagon].

nice irony moron. So far I've seen you do nothing but make an idiot of yourself on OT, do yourself and everyone else a favour and shut the [bleep] up, and stop insulting everyone you disagree with.

 

 

 

Yes, equality of humans is equality of opinion. You just have to fugure out how we aquire the right to equality first.

 

 

 

Then if we are able to justify not forcing our values on people, it would imply that we believe not forcing our values on people is the right thing to do?

why did this even turn into a discussion about cultural values? theres a dig difference in people having different beliefs/morals, and people doing something simply cruel and inhumane.

 

 

 

I personally believe that all humans follow an equal set of moral boundaries, that should not be crossed no matter what your beliefs are, and no matter how you were raised. These boundaries being killing a fellow human for personal gain, or human trafficking, ect...

 

 

 

anyway, you can't use culture as an excuse for this.

[Bloodredsword]

Its disgusting...its wrong

 

 

 

Yet (and I hate to say this) there is so little that we can do to help :x

 

 

 

 

 

Helplessness is a terrible thing

 

 

 

Pray for those girls :notalk:

[Lovelydude]

I'm all for animal rights (within reason - I hate alot of what Peta do) but your right we should think first about people. Don't get me wrong I think animals shouldn't be abused, tortured or mis-treated but you have to look towards people first.

 

 

 

It amazes me that so many people are completely ignorant to the things that people do to each other around the world. It's like people live in their own little perfect bubble where nothing negative ever happens or maybe it's just that they don't care.

 

 

 

This topic reminds me of the thing I saw on the news a few months back about how people donate more money to animal charities than they do towards most other types of charity (I know thats vague but I can't remember the details to be honest). I suppose it's easier to create sympathy for a little little puppy than it is for somebody who has learning difficulties.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm kind of going off-topic with my rant here - probably because my mate got put in the hospital the other night after he and his old man got jumped. I'm just venting in a way.

 

 

 

Ah, it is so easy to comment on the activism of others, yet I've seen first hand, some very aware people wake up in the morning and they care not of any global problems, because their awareness is shrouded by what they're going to do that day.

 

 

 

Is it wrong to focus on the positive rather than the negative?

 

 

 

People who protest cruelty against puppies and remain unaware, or disregard other problems, like illegal hunting, are annoying. They share sympathy for the animals because of their appearance or disposition, not because of their own morality.

[trapical]

 

People who protest cruelty against puppies and remain unaware, or disregard other problems, like illegal hunting, are annoying. They share sympathy for the animals because of their appearance or disposition, not because of their own morality.

 

You bring up an interesting point that I have never heard of before. Someone really can't claim to be moral if they only support one type of activism... In the definition of the word a moral person would worry about all problems. Sure he can focus more on the ones he deems more critical (humans over animals) but there is really no reason why he should completely ignore (or bash) the other problems in the world.

 

I actually totally see where you're coming from with your previous arguments, thanks for the insight :)

[sour_tacos]

I agree that the entire sex slaves and traffiking problem is horrific, however cruelty to animals is just as bad.

 

 

 

Despite your global awareness, you come off just as bad as those kfc protesters.

 

 

 

So little girls getting raped and getting sold for less than cattle, and sometimes contracting AIDS is now comparable to chickens being made into a bucket of deep friend chicken? It's a chicken. Chicken's have no potentional to learn, play, and grow up with dreams and aspiration such as children do. Chickens can't become doctors, or lawyers that can try to stop this horrible practice. They're chickens.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

So if not forcing our views on others is RIGHT, then forcing our views on others must be WRONG, make them absolutes?

 

 

Once you've established that cultural bias exists and that many things we consider bad, were ok centuries ago. What makes marriage to children at ~12-13 acceptable in western culture centuries ago, but not acceptable today? It's the same thing that you abhor today.

 

 

 

 

That's only useful if everyone is utilitarian. What happens when you come up against a Kantian, or an absolutist?

 

 

 

I don't think cultural bias is utilitarian, or Kantian or absolutist.

 

 

 

 

In your eyes. I think the millions of saved children's lives might be justification for the majority of people with, you know, hearts.

 

 

 

So how's the efforts for clean water and sanitation coming along?

 

Dehydration due to diarrhea kills almost 500,000 children under age five in India every year, yet most of these deaths could be avoided simply with the correct use of oral rehydration salts (ORS) to prevent and treat dehydration and zinc supplements to reduce the recurrence of diarrhea.

 

http://www.abtassociates.com/Page.cfm?PageID=40509

 

 

 

How about getting the most basic things solved first before getting holier then thou about a cultural incompatibility. 500,000 dead children due to one issue in one country, which is easily preventable. Most people with bleeding hearts don't have them in the right place, take the protesting of animal cruelty for one example.

[Ambassadar]

I've been to China before. I saw "hair salons" with neon signs open really late at night with a lot of women standing around in them. When we were in Shanghai some Chinese woman called me at about 1 or 2 am in my hotel room and I asked our guide about it the next morning and she was like "oh, that lady of the night."

 

 

 

It is sickening that this stuff goes on. I do question why someone would blame ourselves or other western nations like it is our fault it happens because we haven't gone to war to stop it. Don't call western nations names like they are the ones that did something wrong. The people that are wrong are the freaks that go to these prostitutes, the government officials of these countries that are paid off or allow the industry to go on and the people that run the system and kidnap the women and girls. That is who your anger should be directed at because those are the people that did something wrong.

[BlueTear]

It is sickening that this stuff goes on. I do question why someone would blame ourselves or other western nations like it is our fault it happens because we haven't gone to war to stop it. Don't call western nations names like they are the ones that did something wrong. The people that are wrong are the freaks that go to these prostitutes, the government officials of these countries that are paid off or allow the industry to go on and the people that run the system and kidnap the women and girls. That is who your anger should be directed at because those are the people that did something wrong.

 

 

 

Seen any numbers on how many trafficking victims are trafficked into first world countries? How many of the customers who actually keep the industry ridicolously profitable compared to the punishments?

 

 

 

It's not third-world males who has trouble paying for their own food, that much is certain.

[Lovelydude]

It is sickening that this stuff goes on. I do question why someone would blame ourselves or other western nations like it is our fault it happens because we haven't gone to war to stop it. Don't call western nations names like they are the ones that did something wrong. The people that are wrong are the freaks that go to these prostitutes, the government officials of these countries that are paid off or allow the industry to go on and the people that run the system and kidnap the women and girls. That is who your anger should be directed at because those are the people that did something wrong.

 

 

 

Seen any numbers on how many trafficking victims are trafficked into first world countries? How many of the customers who actually keep the industry ridicolously profitable compared to the punishments?

 

 

 

It's not third-world males who has trouble paying for their own food, that much is certain.

 

 

 

He just stated that the governments of Western nations are not the ones responsible for this occuring. For all we know, it's probably a mix of locals and tourists who keep this industry alive.

 

 

 

I agree that the entire sex slaves and traffiking problem is horrific, however cruelty to animals is just as bad.

 

 

 

Despite your global awareness, you come off just as bad as those kfc protesters.

 

 

 

So little girls getting raped and getting sold for less than cattle, and sometimes contracting AIDS is now comparable to chickens being made into a bucket of deep friend chicken? It's a chicken. Chicken's have no potentional to learn, play, and grow up with dreams and aspiration such as children do. Chickens can't become doctors, or lawyers that can try to stop this horrible practice. They're chickens.

 

 

 

I agree with you, however I cannot deny to myself that chickens have as much right to a harm free life as any human. Sorry. :|

[Korskin]

 

I agree with you, however I cannot deny to myself that chickens have as much right to a harm free life as any human. Sorry. :|

 

I'm just curious, have you ever eaten a chicken?

[sour_tacos]

It is sickening that this stuff goes on. I do question why someone would blame ourselves or other western nations like it is our fault it happens because we haven't gone to war to stop it. Don't call western nations names like they are the ones that did something wrong. The people that are wrong are the freaks that go to these prostitutes, the government officials of these countries that are paid off or allow the industry to go on and the people that run the system and kidnap the women and girls. That is who your anger should be directed at because those are the people that did something wrong.

 

 

 

Seen any numbers on how many trafficking victims are trafficked into first world countries? How many of the customers who actually keep the industry ridicolously profitable compared to the punishments?

 

 

 

It's not third-world males who has trouble paying for their own food, that much is certain.

 

 

 

He just stated that the governments of Western nations are not the ones responsible for this occuring. For all we know, it's probably a mix of locals and tourists who keep this industry alive.

 

 

 

I agree that the entire sex slaves and traffiking problem is horrific, however cruelty to animals is just as bad.

 

 

 

Despite your global awareness, you come off just as bad as those kfc protesters.

 

 

 

So little girls getting raped and getting sold for less than cattle, and sometimes contracting AIDS is now comparable to chickens being made into a bucket of deep friend chicken? It's a chicken. Chicken's have no potentional to learn, play, and grow up with dreams and aspiration such as children do. Chickens can't become doctors, or lawyers that can try to stop this horrible practice. They're chickens.

 

 

 

I agree with you, however I cannot deny to myself that chickens have as much right to a harm free life as any human. Sorry. :|

 

 

 

Well, sure. Killing chickens for no reason= bad. Killing chickens to sustain human life (KFC Variety Bucket) = fine

[andufusthebronze]

I've got to say... I didn't even realize this went on!

 

 

 

A huge eye opener, thats insane.

 

+1

 

 

 

This is a massivly concerning, and deep post.

[malo2]

 

I agree with you, however I cannot deny to myself that chickens have as much right to a harm free life as any human. Sorry. :|

 

theres nothing wrong with eating chicken, it's a part of the circle if life, wolves eat rabbits, rabbits eat plants, bigger fish eat smaller fish, humans eat chicken, ect...

 

 

 

I value my life a lot more than chicken, chicken is something I eat, while humans are not something to be raped.

[superson]

Are you saying we should rape chickens? :|

[malo2]

Are you saying we should [assault] chickens? :|

Assuming you're talking to me, stop being an [wagon].

[superson]

It was a joke... lighten up.

[Viktorkrum77]

So what if they get pregnant?

[trapical]

So what if they get pregnant?

 

I was afraid someone would bring that up. To put it nicely... blunt trauma

[insane]

Once you've established that cultural bias exists and that many things we consider bad, were ok centuries ago. What makes marriage to children at ~12-13 acceptable in western culture centuries ago, but not acceptable today?

 

 

 

The fact that marriage today is not the same as marriage centuries ago. The definitions have changed a bit. Centuries ago marriage was more for practical reasons than anything. You married someone that had child-bearing potential so that you could get help on the family farm/business. Today marriage is all about love, commitment, and friendship; something that requires a certain amount of maturity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think cultural bias is utilitarian, or Kantian or absolutist.

 

 

 

That wasn't directed at you. But for the record I think cultural bias is natural. People are generally inclined to think their way of doing things is correct.

 

 

 

So how's the efforts for clean water and sanitation coming along?

 

Dehydration due to diarrhea kills almost 500,000 children under age five in India every year, yet most of these deaths could be avoided simply with the correct use of oral rehydration salts (ORS) to prevent and treat dehydration and zinc supplements to reduce the recurrence of diarrhea.

 

http://www.abtassociates.com/Page.cfm?PageID=40509

 

 

 

How about getting the most basic things solved first before getting holier then thou about a cultural incompatibility. 500,000 dead children due to one issue in one country, which is easily preventable. Most people with bleeding hearts don't have them in the right place, take the protesting of animal cruelty for one example.

 

 

 

It doesn't change the fact that this needs to be stopped. I thought we were talking about whether or not it was right to try and stop these evils from happening, not whether or not it should be a priority.

[lymnli]

sigh these CHinese are suffering inorder to bring comfort and wealth to the western world

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~may the ones who are suffering be send to heaven where they dont have to suffer in the after-life. :pray:

[Duke_Freedom]

People are pure hypocrits, they close their eyes for things like this. Those claiming to never have heard about it go under that section too... People simply don't (want to) educate themselves on topics like this and you know why? They don't really care, at least unconsciously they don't, even though noone will obviously ever admit that.

 

 

 

Face it... If people genuinely cared as much about things like this as they say they do -- keep in mind that there are thousands of similiar world problems like this -- then these issues simply wouldn't exist. These problems are created by humans and thus can be prevented by humans.

 

 

 

Oh and I'm disgusted by most proactive animal right activists as well. Find yourself a more worthy goal instead of prostesting for the sake of protesting. It's not surprising to me that many animal right activists are anti-globalists and pure anarchists too. No, that's not stereotyping - that's the truth.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, animals should be threaten well, as should all living beings, but the way most animal right activists seem to protest about it they seem to fit more under my observation of hypocritic-not-genuinely-caring people who protest for the sake of protesting rather than under the section of people who are trying to create a better world.

 

 

 

No I don't believe world problems like this will ever be solved and even though I would love to do say otherwise, I refuse to be so hypocritic to do so.