Day 9: Stand Back and Look at it All

[trapical]

June 15th, 2007 ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ Stand Back and Look at it All.

 

Day 9

 

 

 

As a race we strive to improve the standard of living we all share. Think about it, what do we accomplish as a society? Build roads, improve technology, prevent diseases, and try to live with doing as little hard labor as possible. Why do we do this? ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅTo advance societyÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[trapical]

By the way, there is just one day left... :shock:

 

 

 

I will be out of town nearly all day tomorrow, so I won't be able to reply to anything or do any Tarot readings (I'll do them all over the weekend, I promise!), but I will be back home before midnight tomorrow, so I hope you will all be awaiting the final thread. You won't be disappointed :)

[hellbellz]

Trapical, your threads are awesome.

 

 

 

I see your point - as humans advanced in technology we became more crappy, pretty much. That seems how it was.

 

 

 

WhatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the point of being a superpower if you people are just as happy as those in Guatemala?

 

Apparently, there is none.

[darkpoet837]

The world is a funny place. One thing remains though, that if you search for money all your life, you can never be happy. So, if the point of civilization is to make life easy, then it will never make you happy.

 

 

 

Good read anyway, thanks for these great threads. And good luck with all those tarot readings. Hope doing all those don't draw to much dark energy towards you. :lol:

[Adam007]

What I got out from your post was that ease of life does not equate to happiness. But it does give us a better opportunity for it. In our situations we can easily be happy, because like you said, we have so much. And compared to humanity's past, we really should be grateful for our situations and take advantage of the fact that we do have so much.

 

 

 

I think in any situation people will be pessimists and be unhappy, so no matter how close to a utopia we are everyone won't be happy, but we're pretty close, and I absolutely love how things are going for me right now, so I'm pretty happy and content.

 

 

 

ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s actually funny if you think about it, the vast, vast majority of humans that have lived on this earth, lived like that.

 

This might be one of those untrue 'facts' that get passed along, but I heard that there are more homosapiens living now than there are total dead.

[trapical]

 

ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s actually funny if you think about it, the vast, vast majority of humans that have lived on this earth, lived like that.

 

This might be one of those untrue 'facts' that get passed along, but I heard that there are more homosapiens living now than there are total dead.

 

I don't know man, unless you believe in creationism, realize that humans have been around for about 5 million years. We are at ~6 billion people now.

 

To reach 6 billion deaths over .005 billion years, would only require that 1200 people need to have died each year. 1200*5 Million = 6 billion.

 

 

 

I would have to go out on a limb and say that whatever you heard, it might be one of those untrue 'facts' that get passed along :XD:

[Viktorkrum77]

As I sat there, contemplating his answer, I began to question it in my mind. Wait a minuteÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ we live in the United States, the richest country in the world and we are currently the worldÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s sole superpower. We do not have to worry about getting invaded or threatened, and the freedom and economy we have is valued so high that hundreds of thousands of people try to immigrate here every year. Therefore, if weÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re so great, shouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t we be living happier than like, 75% of the world? Wait a minute, actually all of my friends are upper-middle to upper class, the top 3% of the country. We were all intelligent, all have promising careers ahead of us, all in good health, and none of us are having any family problems. SoÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæshouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t we be happier than like, 99% of the world? Actually, wait another minute, we all live in a modern time with clean sanitation, paved roads, electricity, and record-breaking life expectancies. We also live in a time of peace between nation-states, in an age of exponential technological growth. We live in the age were society looks after the unfortunate and we live in a time that promotes learning, freedom, and happiness. Billions upon billions of humans died before I was born, none of them had any of these thingsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ

 

 

 

The US isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's got a horrible government, terrible civil rights (beat by both our allies, Canada and the UK currently), huge poverty problems, a rising crime rate, a horrible school system, and a falling economy, among other things. And we are not the richest. Maybe in physical dollars, but you can't measure that way, in GDP we fall shorter than Luxembourg and I can't remember the rest. And we rank in the 20's on the UN's best country's list, alongside the UK as Canada places around third.

[runesmithie]

As I sat there, contemplating his answer, I began to question it in my mind. Wait a minuteÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ we live in the United States, the richest country in the world and we are currently the worldÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s sole superpower. We do not have to worry about getting invaded or threatened, and the freedom and economy we have is valued so high that hundreds of thousands of people try to immigrate here every year. Therefore, if weÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re so great, shouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t we be living happier than like, 75% of the world? Wait a minute, actually all of my friends are upper-middle to upper class, the top 3% of the country. We were all intelligent, all have promising careers ahead of us, all in good health, and none of us are having any family problems. SoÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæshouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t we be happier than like, 99% of the world? Actually, wait another minute, we all live in a modern time with clean sanitation, paved roads, electricity, and record-breaking life expectancies. We also live in a time of peace between nation-states, in an age of exponential technological growth. We live in the age were society looks after the unfortunate and we live in a time that promotes learning, freedom, and happiness. Billions upon billions of humans died before I was born, none of them had any of these thingsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ

 

 

 

The US isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's got a horrible government, terrible civil rights (beat by both our allies, Canada and the UK currently), huge poverty problems, a rising crime rate, a horrible school system, and a falling economy, among other things. And we are not the richest. Maybe in physical dollars, but you can't measure that way, in GDP we fall shorter than Luxembourg and I can't remember the rest. And we rank in the 20's on the UN's best country list, alongside the UK as Canada places around third.

 

 

 

Isn't Luxembourg more a novelty than a nation, like Monaco?

[Guthix_Girl]

well in our modern day society people claim to be unhappy because they find flaw in just about everything. They don't stand back and look at all the good things they have. They don't know how good they have it, being in a first world country. I have had a hard time learning this very lesson, and even if i have, i am still unhappy. People generally more often are pessimists because they have all that they want, so what they do is complain about things that they can't change.

[trapical]

As I sat there, contemplating his answer, I began to question it in my mind. Wait a minuteÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ we live in the United States, the richest country in the world and we are currently the worldÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s sole superpower. We do not have to worry about getting invaded or threatened, and the freedom and economy we have is valued so high that hundreds of thousands of people try to immigrate here every year. Therefore, if weÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re so great, shouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t we be living happier than like, 75% of the world? Wait a minute, actually all of my friends are upper-middle to upper class, the top 3% of the country. We were all intelligent, all have promising careers ahead of us, all in good health, and none of us are having any family problems. SoÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæshouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t we be happier than like, 99% of the world? Actually, wait another minute, we all live in a modern time with clean sanitation, paved roads, electricity, and record-breaking life expectancies. We also live in a time of peace between nation-states, in an age of exponential technological growth. We live in the age were society looks after the unfortunate and we live in a time that promotes learning, freedom, and happiness. Billions upon billions of humans died before I was born, none of them had any of these thingsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ

 

 

 

The US isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's got a horrible government, terrible civil rights (beat by both our allies, Canada and the UK currently), huge poverty problems, a rising crime rate, a horrible school system, and a falling economy, among other things. And we are not the richest. Maybe in physical dollars, but you can't measure that way, in GDP we fall shorter than Luxembourg and I can't remember the rest. And we rank in the 20's on the UN's best country's list, alongside the UK as Canada places around third.

 

Okay, than use I just said, but put in "the UK" or "Canada", I wasn't trying to act all "gung-[garden tool] America!". Oh and not to be nitpicky, but Luxemburg might have the US beat in per capita GDP, since it has less than a million people and a huge tourist industry. But in actual GDP? The US wins bar none:

 

1	United States                   	             13,244,550

2 	Japan 	                                    4,367,459

3 	Germany  	                               2,897,032

4 	China 	                                    2,630,113 

5 	U.K.        	                             2,373,685 

6 	France 	                                   2,231,631

65     Luxemburg                                    40,577

 

numbers given in millions of dollars

 

 

 

Also, I'm not trying to be one of those "America is the best!" type posters but I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

[Adam007]

 

ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s actually funny if you think about it, the vast, vast majority of humans that have lived on this earth, lived like that.

 

This might be one of those untrue 'facts' that get passed along, but I heard that there are more homosapiens living now than there are total dead.

 

I don't know man, unless you believe in creationism, realize that humans have been around for about 5 million years. We are at ~6 billion people now.

 

To reach 6 billion deaths over .005 billion years, would only require that 1200 people need to have died each year. 1200*5 Million = 6 billion.

 

 

 

I would have to go out on a limb and say that whatever you heard, it might be one of those untrue 'facts' that get passed along :XD:

 

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me either. You should know by now though from posting together for so many years that I could never believe the earth is a few thousand years old. :P

 

Anyways I was bothered by where I heard that and found this article on it: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articl ... F0DA77D94F

 

It agreed with you but one thing worth mentioning is that according to the article homosapiens have only been around for 50,000 years, not 5 million.

 

 

 

I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

That's the thing about education here. The highschools are a mess, but universities are the best in the world. I'm proud to be going to the sixth ranked university in the world, even though my highschool wasn't much to speak about. :)

[trapical]

Ah, I suppose it is how you define "human". Wikipedia states "Hunting and gathering was presumably the only subsistence strategy employed by human societies for more than five million years, until the end of the Mesolithic period"

 

 

 

So yea, depends on how technical you want to get with the word human.

[Rebdragon]

Ah, I suppose it is how you define "human". Wikipedia states "Hunting and gathering was presumably the only subsistence strategy employed by human societies for more than five million years, until the end of the Mesolithic period"

 

 

 

So yea, depends on how technical you want to get with the word human.

 

I don't believe those were homo sapiens though :-k . I definitely don't know any statistics for the matter, but Adam's 50,000 year figure sounds right, or at least much closer.

 

 

 

It's Wiki anyways, take specific phrasings with a grain of salt.

[warri0r45]

 

That's the thing about education here. The highschools are a mess, but universities are the best in the world. I'm proud to be going to the sixth ranked university in the world, even though my highschool wasn't much to speak about. :)

 

 

 

347th ranked for me. :lol: :P

[Viktorkrum77]

that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

 

 

Well I wouldn't bet. They're among the most expensive, they're not government payed for. Anything privatized will be exceptionally good. It's not a comparison one can make. One's public and payed by the government and one's private. Just like how a private school dominates a public one.

[trapical]

Pfft, :wink: if Wiki is wrong than the world explodes.

 

 

 

Nah, I agree with you. But regardless of the technical term, they were still human in design and thought. They were more advanced than the stone age 'humans' and were far and apart different from apes at this point. The only difference between them and us is some facial bone structure and probably a slightly different composition of digestive enzymes

[Sumpta]

that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

 

 

Well I wouldn't bet. They're among the most expensive, they're not government payed for. Anything privatized will be exceptionally good. It's not a comparison one can make. One's public and payed by the government and one's private. Just like how a private school dominates a public one.

 

 

 

Exactly. The good universities in the US are extremely expensive and mainly available to the wealthy. It's insanity that some students have to take a loan to pay for their studies.

 

 

 

I went to Univerity nr 205 on the list - not bad eh? Subscription fee: 533 euro/year for the "normal" students, 80 euro/year for scholarship students whose parents have low incomes. Every single Belgian can attend this university, provided they have the brains and talent.

[Lionheart_0]

It's insanity that some students have to take a loan to pay for their studies.

 

 

 

 

:shock: It is the norm here to have to get a loan (unless you are like super rich) here (Canada). Also not to mention that ive talked to some people, and basically its much harder to get into uni for Canada because of grade requirements.

 

 

 

The world will never be happy until people stop fighting. Unfortunately there are those that think it is boring if we do not fight....

[____]

On the issue of the cost of uni in the USA; I once did a comparison to I think it was... Ican't rmember actually. But one semester of uni at his university would cost him more than it does for an entire degree here in Australia. Considering that some degrees are like AU$40K - that's pretty insane for a student to pay that in a single semester or even a year. And people wonder why American unis tend to be the best :uhh:

[Korskin]

If you don't have food you have one worry. If you have food you have 100's of worries. So just because we are rich doesn't mean our worries are gone and we will be happy for the rest of our lives. Humans will never be happy with what they've got, they always want more.

 

 

 

I'd say the best time is the present as we are more free than ever. Many of us can do just about anything with our lives. We aren't forced to become farmers like our dads or anything like that. In Sweden we don't even need to do military service if we don't want to. This doesn't mean we all will succed forfilling our dreams, but we can't say we never had the chance.

 

 

 

You can't find true happiness on earth though, whatever you base your happiness on has a chance of being destroyed at any time. Whether it's your possessions, your family, girlfriend/boyfriend, carrer etc.

[Grim_Jokes]

I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

 

 

Can you show me a link that tells me exactly how many of those students in those high ranked universities are actually American?

[Shortman422]

I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

 

 

Can you show me a link that tells me exactly how many of those students in those high ranked universities are actually American?

 

 

 

The link was in the original quote.

 

 

 

 

Also, I'm not trying to be one of those "America is the best!" type posters but I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

[Grim_Jokes]

I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

 

 

Can you show me a link that tells me exactly how many of those students in those high ranked universities are actually American?

 

 

 

The link was in the original quote.

 

 

 

 

Also, I'm not trying to be one of those "America is the best!" type posters but I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

 

 

You misunderstood. I meant. How many of the students going into those universities are actually americans themselves. Born and raised there?

[Rebdragon]

On the issue of the cost of uni in the USA; I once did a comparison to I think it was... Ican't rmember actually. But one semester of uni at his university would cost him more than it does for an entire degree here in Australia. Considering that some degrees are like AU$40K - that's pretty insane for a student to pay that in a single semester or even a year. And people wonder why American unis tend to be the best :uhh:

 

Was your friend rich, and thus did he pay full tuition? The way financial aid is built into American Universities, it's basically a system of having the rich help and pay for the poors' education. If conditions are bad enough for someone, and if the Uni they're going to has the right financial aid, they could go to college without paying a single penny, with maybe a small $4-6,000 dollar loan to pay years later.

 

 

 

Me, I'm on the rich, no-financial-aid, side of the spectrum, so I am (or rather, my parents) going to be paying full tuition to help those who can't afford it.

[trapical]

I do find it funny that everyone criticizes America's high schools, yet no one seems to mention that American Universities sort of dominate the ranking.

 

 

 

Can you show me a link that tells me exactly how many of those students in those high ranked universities are actually American?

 

Sure, for undergrad the numbers are as follows

 

Harvard = 91% American

 

Stanford = 95% American

 

MIT = 91.3% American

 

 

 

 

 

On the issue of the cost of uni in the USA; I once did a comparison to I think it was... Ican't rmember actually. But one semester of uni at his university would cost him more than it does for an entire degree here in Australia. Considering that some degrees are like AU$40K - that's pretty insane for a student to pay that in a single semester or even a year. And people wonder why American unis tend to be the best :uhh:

 

Was your friend rich, and thus did he pay full tuition? The way financial aid is built into American Universities, it's basically a system of having the rich help and pay for the poors' education. If conditions are bad enough for someone, and if the Uni they're going to has the right financial aid, they could go to college without paying a single penny, with maybe a small maybe $4-6,000 dollar loan to pay years later.

 

 

 

Me, I'm on the rich, no-financial-aid, side of the spectrum, so I am (or rather, my parents) going to be paying full tuition to help those who can't afford it.

 

 

 

Indeed, I am going to a $36,000 a year school. For getting a 3.7 GPA in high school I got a $21,000 yearly scholarship from the school, thus my education only costs $15,000.

 

 

 

Schools post high prices so the rich can help pay for the poor, and so when they do offer a scholarship it will seem like a lot to the kid.

 

Example: Why have a $5,000 school when you could have a $15,000 school where every kid gets a $10,000 scholarship? This way the kids feel like their aren't going somewhere cheap and the parents are proud that their kids "earned" 10 grand.