Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[1230abcz]

Also, The Bible doesn't say anything against homosexuals being unnatural. And any mentions of if in The Bible are all from Jesus's apostles, who claim that a man should never copulate with another man. Notice that it never mentions women? I dare say that people in those olden times were pretty bias as to which practice they thought was right or wrong. If you're going to base your beliefs around that, then you might as well just sit in a corner and cry.

 

 

Edit At Y_Guy_4_life: I didn't call you a conservative idiot. I meant to say that people who try and control the actions of others because of their opinions are idiots. I know you're just stating your opinion in a safe manner, and I'm not condoning that at all. Sorry if it came out like I was.

 

Fair enough.

 

I never mentioned the bible at all tbh ;)

 

My views as a Christian are based on what I see as reasonable and sensible. I don't expect others to see it that way nor will I try to force them to.

 

 

OK, more confusion, lol. I was speaking in general response to the thread. If I'm talking about you, I'll reply with a quote or say that I am. Lol, sorry I suck at making that clear.

 

 

Anyway, I do respect your beliefs as a religious person. I just want to make it clear that I DON'T respect people who act as if they need to alter legislation based on those beliefs. If anything, any attempts at changing laws to fit the views of the religious should be treated as an infringement on the basic rights provided by the Constitution (see: separation of church and state).

[Saru Inc]

Separation of Church and state does not exist. Never has, most likely never will.

[1230abcz]

Separation of Church and state does not exist. Never has, most likely never will.

 

 

It's the law. I can't argue that people's religious status isn't affecting the state of laws being passed, but in clear-cut cases like these where the only debate for it is religion, then it's clear that it should have no standing at all in Congress or anywhere government related.

[obfuscator]

Separation of Church and state does not exist. Never has, most likely never will.

Agreed. For better or worse, its an ideal, not a reality and will stay that way.

 

Separation of Church and state does not exist. Never has, most likely never will.

 

 

It's the law. I can't argue that people's religious status isn't affecting the state of laws being passed, but in clear-cut cases like these where the only debate for it is religion, then it's clear that it should have no standing at all in Congress or anywhere government related.

Is it only a debate for religion? I know a lot of non-religious people who object to it on the grounds of it being unnatural and disgusting. (Their opinions)

[Saru Inc]

Separation of Church and state does not exist. Never has, most likely never will.

 

 

It's the law. I can't argue that people's religious status isn't affecting the state of laws being passed, but in clear-cut cases like these where the only debate for it is religion, then it's clear that it should have no standing at all in Congress or anywhere government related.

 

 

Show me where it is law. It was mentioned in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote I believe. Show me in the Federal or even state Constitution where it exists. And even if it does, human prejudice will always overrule human common sense.

[1230abcz]

Separation of Church and state does not exist. Never has, most likely never will.

 

 

It's the law. I can't argue that people's religious status isn't affecting the state of laws being passed, but in clear-cut cases like these where the only debate for it is religion, then it's clear that it should have no standing at all in Congress or anywhere government related.

Is it only a debate for religion? I know a lot of non-religious people who object to it on the grounds of it being unnatural and disgusting. (Their opinions)

 

 

 

The one I see quoted countless times is the "sanctity of marriage." While there might be other opinions, I can safely say it's the only one that's truly giving this movement strength. I know a lot of people think homosexuality is wrong, but that's just discriminating against people. I might think that black people are bent on the destruction of our society, but I'd never attempt to change laws in order to deprive them of their natural rights.

 

Separation of Church and state does not exist. Never has, most likely never will.

 

 

It's the law. I can't argue that people's religious status isn't affecting the state of laws being passed, but in clear-cut cases like these where the only debate for it is religion, then it's clear that it should have no standing at all in Congress or anywhere government related.

 

 

Show me where it is law. It was mentioned in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote I believe. Show me in the Federal or even state Constitution where it exists. And even if it does, human prejudice will always overrule human common sense.

 

 

It's generally accepted. In the First Amendment, people are granted freedom of religion. If the religious bias of other people is affecting their daily lives, then it's obviously illegal. Sure, human prejudice is part of everyone's lives and we can't ever filter it out, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to change our views and stop laws that promote discrimination. If someone can't get that into their head, I suggest getting a drill bit in there instead.

[Saru Inc]

But when you are already judging them in your mind, you're stripping them of their intellectual rights. If you're a boss and a African American comes into your work place, would you hire them because its their natural right? Or would you not hire them because you think they have alternative motives. And I certainly hope you are using the example of disliking African Americans. And it is not actually how you feel, if it is, you an awful human being. My best friend is African, and she is the smartest, caring person I've ever known.

[1230abcz]

But when you are already judging them in your mind, you're stripping them of their intellectual rights. If you're a boss and a African American comes into your work place, would you hire them because its their natural right? Or would you not hire them because you think they have alternative motives. And I certainly hope you are using the example of disliking African Americans. And it is not actually how you feel, if it is, you an awful human being. My best friend is African, and she is the smartest, caring person I've ever known.

 

Just because it's impossible for humans to grasp the full power of their subconscience doesn't mean we should drop all efforts to reform society today. After all, all prejudice is caused because of current social standards (most movies depict a white male/female as the main character, always doing good, but when we turn our eyes to prisons or gang-infested areas, the majority are all minorities), and attempting to fix that now could potentially end almost all forms of discrimination it the near future. And yes, it was just an example. I don't discriminate against any group at all, except stupid people.

[Serpent Eye]

"Sanctity of marriage."

 

Blech, I say.

 

Marriage is a concept, and has no personal feelings that need to be protected.

 

I don't have any additional comments on the religious arguments against homosexuality... as I said earlier, I don't give a damn about religion.

[Alg]

The best response I have ever heard to "Sanctity of Marriage":

Ban divorce.

[1230abcz]

The best response I have ever heard to "Sanctity of Marriage":

Ban divorce.

 

 

LMFAO. I have a few friends that support sanctity of marriage. Gonna see if this makes them want to kick me in the nuts or something, lol.

[Sy_Accursed]

I think Sanctity of marriage is far far far out dated these days.

 

In old days yes it was great and amazing and the right thing; but with like 7% of all marriages getting divorces and something like 80% being unfaithful at some point.

Plus with quickly las vegas style weddings and all the celebrity marriages and divorces

 

Marriage has about much sanctity these days as a tramps vomit.

 

It bugs me when sanctity of marriage is used, especially against the idea of civil partnerships. For one thing a civil partnership is nothing even to do with the religious ceremony of marriage, it's just a simple ceremony that produces the same legal documents and rights as a marriage does, regardless of religion.

[Serpent Eye]

but with like 7% of all marriages getting divorces and something like 80% being unfaithful at some point.

Plus with quickly las vegas style weddings and all the celebrity marriages and divorces

 

Roughly 40% to 50% of first marriages in the United States end in divorce. 65% of second marriages end in divorce. 75% of third marriages end in divorce.

 

Yes... the sanctity of marriage is being preserved...

[Sy_Accursed]

I meant to put 75% lol

[Zierro]

In old days yes it was great and amazing and the right thing

 

Actually I don't think marriage has ever been very sacred. Parents would force their kids to marry people who they might not even know just for money, power, continuing family trees, etc. And as stated, even today marriage is suffering since the divorce rates are so enormous. So yeah, the argument that homosexual marriage ruins the "sanctity" is a laughable one. It's better to have two men that love each other than a man and woman who don't love each other.

[Alg]

but with like 7% of all marriages getting divorces and something like 80% being unfaithful at some point.

Plus with quickly las vegas style weddings and all the celebrity marriages and divorces

 

Roughly 40% to 50% of first marriages in the United States end in divorce. 65% of second marriages end in divorce. 75% of third marriages end in divorce.

 

Yes... the sanctity of marriage is being preserved...

That's the thing, you want marriage to be a sacred concept, you'd better be damn sure that you and your spouse can last until "death do[es] you part.

[Impersonator]

But when you are already judging them in your mind, you're stripping them of their intellectual rights. If you're a boss and a African American comes into your work place, would you hire them because its their natural right? Or would you not hire them because you think they have alternative motives. And I certainly hope you are using the example of disliking African Americans. And it is not actually how you feel, if it is, you an awful human being. My best friend is African, and she is the smartest, caring person I've ever known.

 

Just because it's impossible for humans to grasp the full power of their subconscience doesn't mean we should drop all efforts to reform society today. After all, all prejudice is caused because of current social standards (most movies depict a white male/female as the main character, always doing good, but when we turn our eyes to prisons or gang-infested areas, the majority are all minorities), and attempting to fix that now could potentially end almost all forms of discrimination it the near future. And yes, it was just an example. I don't discriminate against any group at all, except stupid people.

I refute the claim that showing the main characters in movies being non-white has any chance of ending "all forms of discrimination in the near future". It certainly wouldn't hurt if we had a few more muslims in positions on T.V. showing them as something other than a terrorist, but I don't have any illusions that it would change very much.

All people discriminate- we see apple juice and orange juice, and pick the orange juice we were familiar with growing up, ect. It simply makes sense for animals to try to favour those most similar to themselves above the rest- you've got a better chance of furthering your own genes that way.

However, humans are social creatures with ideas such as "fairness" and "equality" which don't necessarily fit with that. I do not argue that it would be a much, much better world if we could live without discrimination, and I feel we would be doing a disservice to the world by not attempting to change the status quo (without going overboard, mind you).

 

I love how when white people start talking about racism, they all pull out that one black friend that they have. Hell, I've got one too, and I consider myself pretty racist.

[Saru Inc]

But when you are already judging them in your mind, you're stripping them of their intellectual rights. If you're a boss and a African American comes into your work place, would you hire them because its their natural right? Or would you not hire them because you think they have alternative motives. And I certainly hope you are using the example of disliking African Americans. And it is not actually how you feel, if it is, you an awful human being. My best friend is African, and she is the smartest, caring person I've ever known.

 

Just because it's impossible for humans to grasp the full power of their subconscience doesn't mean we should drop all efforts to reform society today. After all, all prejudice is caused because of current social standards (most movies depict a white male/female as the main character, always doing good, but when we turn our eyes to prisons or gang-infested areas, the majority are all minorities), and attempting to fix that now could potentially end almost all forms of discrimination it the near future. And yes, it was just an example. I don't discriminate against any group at all, except stupid people.

I refute the claim that showing the main characters in movies being non-white has any chance of ending "all forms of discrimination in the near future". It certainly wouldn't hurt if we had a few more muslims in positions on T.V. showing them as something other than a terrorist, but I don't have any illusions that it would change very much.

All people discriminate- we see apple juice and orange juice, and pick the orange juice we were familiar with growing up, ect. It simply makes sense for animals to try to favour those most similar to themselves above the rest- you've got a better chance of furthering your own genes that way.

However, humans are social creatures with ideas such as "fairness" and "equality" which don't necessarily fit with that. I do not argue that it would be a much, much better world if we could live without discrimination, and I feel we would be doing a disservice to the world by not attempting to change the status quo (without going overboard, mind you).

 

I love how when white people start talking about racism, they all pull out that one black friend that they have. Hell, I've got one too, and I consider myself pretty racist.

 

This is a genuine question -- What are you trying to prove? Hate is natural as well, even God has it. But does that mean it is acceptable in your society? And just so you know, all the racists I know use that excuse that discrimination is natural. You are correct in that it is natural when it comes to some things. But when it comes to human relationships, the mind is a blank tablet that is formed from the prejudices of its predecessors. White people do not automatically hate black people, that's a lie, and a bad one while you're at it.

[Impersonator]

But when you are already judging them in your mind, you're stripping them of their intellectual rights. If you're a boss and a African American comes into your work place, would you hire them because its their natural right? Or would you not hire them because you think they have alternative motives. And I certainly hope you are using the example of disliking African Americans. And it is not actually how you feel, if it is, you an awful human being. My best friend is African, and she is the smartest, caring person I've ever known.

 

Just because it's impossible for humans to grasp the full power of their subconscience doesn't mean we should drop all efforts to reform society today. After all, all prejudice is caused because of current social standards (most movies depict a white male/female as the main character, always doing good, but when we turn our eyes to prisons or gang-infested areas, the majority are all minorities), and attempting to fix that now could potentially end almost all forms of discrimination it the near future. And yes, it was just an example. I don't discriminate against any group at all, except stupid people.

I refute the claim that showing the main characters in movies being non-white has any chance of ending "all forms of discrimination in the near future". It certainly wouldn't hurt if we had a few more muslims in positions on T.V. showing them as something other than a terrorist, but I don't have any illusions that it would change very much.

All people discriminate- we see apple juice and orange juice, and pick the orange juice we were familiar with growing up, ect. It simply makes sense for animals to try to favour those most similar to themselves above the rest- you've got a better chance of furthering your own genes that way.

However, humans are social creatures with ideas such as "fairness" and "equality" which don't necessarily fit with that. I do not argue that it would be a much, much better world if we could live without discrimination, and I feel we would be doing a disservice to the world by not attempting to change the status quo (without going overboard, mind you).

 

I love how when white people start talking about racism, they all pull out that one black friend that they have. Hell, I've got one too, and I consider myself pretty racist.

 

This is a genuine question -- What are you trying to prove? Hate is natural as well, even God has it. But does that mean it is acceptable in your society? And just so you know, all the racists I know use that excuse that discrimination is natural. You are correct in that it is natural when it comes to some things. But when it comes to human relationships, the mind is a blank tablet that is formed from the prejudices of its predecessors. White people do not automatically hate black people, that's a lie, and a bad one while you're at it.

Blah blah blah God.

Please quote exactly where I said white people automatically hate black people kthnx.

However, white people do tend to automatically be prejudiced towards their own parents- coincidentally white people, most of the time. The same goes towards others. I wouldn't stretch "prejudice" so far as "hatred" however.

If you choose to see the two as one in the same, that's your failing and not mine.

[Sy_Accursed]

You're talking out of you're [wagon].

 

I hold absolutely no prejudice based on race, religion, sexuality or belief, but up until probably mid-teens I only ever came across white people due to where I lived, and at that other than the odd Jehovahs(dp?) Witness it was all Christian too

[SeanCalibur]

Anyone who argues that homosexuality is unnatural:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

 

A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them

 

Current research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom. A new review made in 2009 of existing research showed that Same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species

 

More proof that homosexuality is natural and doesn't just occur in humans.

[Saru Inc]

But when you are already judging them in your mind, you're stripping them of their intellectual rights. If you're a boss and a African American comes into your work place, would you hire them because its their natural right? Or would you not hire them because you think they have alternative motives. And I certainly hope you are using the example of disliking African Americans. And it is not actually how you feel, if it is, you an awful human being. My best friend is African, and she is the smartest, caring person I've ever known.

 

Just because it's impossible for humans to grasp the full power of their subconscience doesn't mean we should drop all efforts to reform society today. After all, all prejudice is caused because of current social standards (most movies depict a white male/female as the main character, always doing good, but when we turn our eyes to prisons or gang-infested areas, the majority are all minorities), and attempting to fix that now could potentially end almost all forms of discrimination it the near future. And yes, it was just an example. I don't discriminate against any group at all, except stupid people.

I refute the claim that showing the main characters in movies being non-white has any chance of ending "all forms of discrimination in the near future". It certainly wouldn't hurt if we had a few more muslims in positions on T.V. showing them as something other than a terrorist, but I don't have any illusions that it would change very much.

All people discriminate- we see apple juice and orange juice, and pick the orange juice we were familiar with growing up, ect. It simply makes sense for animals to try to favour those most similar to themselves above the rest- you've got a better chance of furthering your own genes that way.

However, humans are social creatures with ideas such as "fairness" and "equality" which don't necessarily fit with that. I do not argue that it would be a much, much better world if we could live without discrimination, and I feel we would be doing a disservice to the world by not attempting to change the status quo (without going overboard, mind you).

 

I love how when white people start talking about racism, they all pull out that one black friend that they have. Hell, I've got one too, and I consider myself pretty racist.

 

This is a genuine question -- What are you trying to prove? Hate is natural as well, even God has it. But does that mean it is acceptable in your society? And just so you know, all the racists I know use that excuse that discrimination is natural. You are correct in that it is natural when it comes to some things. But when it comes to human relationships, the mind is a blank tablet that is formed from the prejudices of its predecessors. White people do not automatically hate black people, that's a lie, and a bad one while you're at it.

Blah blah blah God.

Please quote exactly where I said white people automatically hate black people kthnx.

However, white people do tend to automatically be prejudiced towards their own parents- coincidentally white people, most of the time. The same goes towards others. I wouldn't stretch "prejudice" so far as "hatred" however.

If you choose to see the two as one in the same, that's your failing and not mine.

 

 

Alright, I will. As soon as you quote exactly where I specifically mentioned white and black people.

 

Blah blah blah God.

 

I mentioned God once... What are you trying to say?

 

However, white people do tend to automatically be prejudiced towards their own parents- coincidentally white people, most of the time. The same goes towards others. I wouldn't stretch "prejudice" so far as "hatred" however.

If you choose to see the two as one in the same, that's your failing and not mine.

 

First off, prejudice is a form of hatred, if you can't see that; then that's your failing and not mine.

 

Secondly, you just singled out white people, then mixed them in with the group? Color has no basis at all when it comes to prejudice. What I mean by this, is someone is not going to hate Asians, because they're Latino. They may hate Asians, because everyone in their family does.

[Lateralus]

Prejudice is an inescapable part of being human. The word as it's commonly used today might have extremely negative connotations, but it's not the only way to use the word. You can only judge people on how you percieve them, so you build up some kind of prejudice towards everyone in your life. It's much easier (and probably essential) to fit people into invented categories and then judge them against an archetype. Really you're fooling yourself if you think you can be completely objective.

[Saru Inc]

I'm not saying you can, I'm simply stating that negative prejudice because of someones race is not a natural i.e. present at birth kind of thing.

[warri0r45]

I'm not so sure. I have no proof whatsoever, but it seems to me that an inbuilt suspicion of people not in your tribe could be a natural trait. It would certainly go a long way to explain war and racism.