Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[Saru Inc]

k i gotta go to bed. it's 2:14 am and i gotta wake up at 6:30 for kick boxing. blerghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

 

That doesn't matter, homophobes don't care about that. Animals also eat their poop, can sometimes cannibalize, and have not been given the brain power to determine right from wrong, they will say.

[Big_Stingman]

In my opinion: Wrong.

 

Probably heavily weighted on because of my religious beliefs, but that's just what I believe. I also believe in NOT persecuting or attacking those people though; it is still their choice, regardless of what I believe.

[obfuscator]

k i gotta go to bed. it's 2:14 am and i gotta wake up at 6:30 for kick boxing. blerghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

 

That doesn't matter, homophobes don't care about that. Animals also eat their poop, can sometimes cannibalize, and have not been given the brain power to determine right from wrong, they will say.

Animals also hump the wrong kind of animal, inanimate objects, and run into cars.

 

It's a flawed argument because humans aren't animals in a moral and intellectual sense.

 

Although, the "homosexuality is unnatural" argument is also flawed...

[Skeptical]

There's no "moral and intellectual sense" when discussing homosexuality.

 

Is homosexuality the evolutionary ideal? No, but then neither is someone with a peanut allergy. Either way, it shouldn't matter to anyone.

[Alg]

There's no "moral and intellectual sense" when discussing homosexuality.

 

Is homosexuality the evolutionary ideal? No, but then neither is someone with a peanut allergy. Either way, it shouldn't matter to anyone.

And it doesn't. That's why we spent the past few pages arguing about condoms.

[obfuscator]

But it does matter to some people, whose set of values and morals is such that they feel it's wrong.

[Alg]

But it does matter to some people, whose set of values and morals is such that they feel it's wrong.

They aren't in the thread, presumably because of how violently people here tend to attack non-liberals :razz:

Which is probably worse than the whole homophobia thing. How are they supposed to be tolerant when the people who claim they are tend to be even less so? The only difference is that instead of disagreeing with homosexuality they actively hate anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

 

It matters to some people, but it shouldn't matter to others whether or not it matters to them.

 

Does that get any point across? :razz:

[Skeptical]

Then you support the Klu Klux Klan then, right?

 

Why shouldn't blacks be discriminated against if that's their belief system?

[meol]

But it does matter to some people, whose set of values and morals is such that they feel it's wrong.

They aren't in the thread, presumably because of how violently people here tend to attack non-liberals :razz:

Which is probably worse than the whole homophobia thing. How are they supposed to be tolerant when the people who claim they are tend to be even less so? The only difference is that instead of disagreeing with homosexuality they actively hate anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

 

It matters to some people, but it shouldn't matter to others whether or not it matters to them.

 

Does that get any point across? :razz:

Of course it matters if it matters to you, since people with strong feelings about this will most probably want to change current legislation one way or the other. Be it with making homosexuality a capital crime or making their marriages unconstitutional, as examples.

 

Then there's the issue that some people feel it's somehow so evil and depraved that gays deserve an eternity of the worst possible suffering, just for expressing their sexuality. How can that be simply tolerated and shrugged off?

 

"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

[Skeptical]

:thumbup: for Mann.

 

Very apt quote though.

[obfuscator]

But it does matter to some people, whose set of values and morals is such that they feel it's wrong.

They aren't in the thread, presumably because of how violently people here tend to attack non-liberals :razz:

Which is probably worse than the whole homophobia thing. How are they supposed to be tolerant when the people who claim they are tend to be even less so? The only difference is that instead of disagreeing with homosexuality they actively hate anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

 

It matters to some people, but it shouldn't matter to others whether or not it matters to them.

 

Does that get any point across? :razz:

 

Oh, I was never in any confusion as to your point :P

 

Then you support the Klu Klux Klan then, right?

 

Why shouldn't blacks be discriminated against if that's their belief system?

 

Ahh yes, from not supporting gay marriages to hanging black people. That seems to be the logical step the extreme left makes these days in regards to anyone who has even the slightest moral dislike for certain activities.

 

Personally, I'm a pretty moderate considering I'm anti-gay marriage. I support abolition of DADT, sexual-orientation related violence should always be criminally prosecuted, etc.

 

But I believe taking an institution meant to foster the creation of children and stripping it of that purpose is immoral.

 

But of course, now, I'm basically Hitler.

[Alg]

• Not all Christians are homophobic
  
• Not all conservatives are homophobic
  
• Not all homophobes resort to domestic terrorism
  
• The ones that do deserve the hate that they receive.
  
• The ones that don't, don't deserve to be lumped in with the ones that do
  
• Lumping anyone that disagrees with you into that same category is ignorance and intolerance
  

I'm not asking that people pardon the KKK or Westboro Baptist. I'm asking that our oh-so-tolerant intellectual liberals actually show some tolerance rather than attacking every Christian and conservative as of they were the bastard child of Sauron and Bill Gates.

 

Not directed at you in general of course, it's a theme I've been noticing for a long time now.

[Skeptical]

-Leviticus 20:13 “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives”

 

How's that for tolerance?

 

I show quite a bit of tolerance, but I will not stand by while discrimination, warmongering and environmental exploitation occur. If you do it with another consenting adult, and it does not hurt anyone else, your business.

 

Sauron + Bill Gates. :thumbup:

[obfuscator]

When did I quote the bible?

 

That's like me saying: A far left communist said this, so obviously you're a communist as well!

 

EDIT: Three years of posting here, and I don't think I've quoted the bible once.

[Skeptical]

That was a response to Mask, sorry I should have quoted him.

 

I am not a communist, by the way. I'm a socialist, with Marxist leanings.

[Dupin]

But I believe taking an institution meant to foster the creation of children and stripping it of that purpose is immoral.

Since when is marriage meant solely for the creation of children, and since when can homosexuals not raise their own children, even if they cannot procreate?

[Zierro]

• Not all Christians are homophobic
  
• Not all conservatives are homophobic
  
• Not all homophobes resort to domestic terrorism
  
• The ones that do deserve the hate that they receive.
  
• The ones that don't, don't deserve to be lumped in with the ones that do
  
• Lumping anyone that disagrees with you into that same category is ignorance and intolerance
  

I'm not asking that people pardon the KKK or Westboro Baptist. I'm asking that our oh-so-tolerant intellectual liberals actually show some tolerance rather than attacking every Christian and conservative as of they were the bastard child of Sauron and Bill Gates.

 

Not directed at you in general of course, it's a theme I've been noticing for a long time now.

 

I agree with this. If someone is vigorously bashing homosexuality, I think you have the right to vigorously bash that line of thinking. However, if someone just says they do not agree with it but they aren't doing so in a vigorous manner, then you are really kicking your own cause in the nuts if you attack them with an overly-passionate level of assertiveness. A loud man will listen to the louder man, and a gentle man will listen to the gentler man. Rhetoric is essential if you want to be listened to.

[Skeptical]

The last killing that a Klansman was implicated in was in 1981. There have been numerous murders of gays by morally righteous homophobes, not to mention dozens of reported beatings and a national system of discrimination since.

 

Currently, the Klan is busy creating stupid secret codes and discriminating against other races since they're afraid of them.

 

The Christian right is busy creating stupid laws and discriminating against homosexuals because the bible tells them to.

 

I really don't see why the comparison is incorrect. If I was to compare the Christian right to the Nazis, that would be incorrect, since death camps seem still unlikely.

[Alg]

Guilt by association and Godwin's Law all in one post! Woo!

Are all Christians a part of the Christian right? Do all Christians support discrimination against homosexuals? Arguing that they must because of that one Bible passage is fallacious (No True Scotsman). And if not all are, then it's illogical to lump them together as if they were.

 

It's much easier to argue against this Christian strawman, of course. Can't expect anyone to look past that. Might lead to them questioning their beliefs and attitudes. The right does this, the left does this, but each side believes that it's exempt from being illogical.

[Ezalor]

-Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives

 

How's that for tolerance?

 

I show quite a bit of tolerance, but I will not stand by while discrimination, warmongering and environmental exploitation occur. If you do it with another consenting adult, and it does not hurt anyone else, your business.

 

Sauron + Bill Gates. :thumbup:

So does the Bible imply we should do it in the other hole?

 

It's all about interpretation. The whole bible is. The translation is probably not even excact.

On Topic. There is no right or wrong

Tolerate it or don't but i dont see how it could be wrong.

[fakeitormakeit2]

The last killing that a Klansman was implicated in was in 1981. There have been numerous murders of gays by morally righteous homophobes, not to mention dozens of reported beatings and a national system of discrimination since.

 

Currently, the Klan is busy creating stupid secret codes and discriminating against other races since they're afraid of them.

 

The Christian right is busy creating stupid laws and discriminating against homosexuals because the bible tells them to.

 

I really don't see why the comparison is incorrect. If I was to compare the Christian right to the Nazis, that would be incorrect, since death camps seem still unlikely.

I'm just going to start quoting myself... This is an example of religious ignorance. Do you realize the vast majority (Roman Catholics + Eastern & Oriental Orthodox) perceive the Old Testament as completed by Jesus. Hence why we don't follow kosher laws. I'd go into more detail but you've probably already seen my more detailed explanation in another thread. I don't think homophobes are as big a problem as much as the all-knowing left. I have noticed many leftists in this forum always resort to irrelevant name calling, associate people that disagree with them with previous atrocities and then demonize them, ironically when it comes matters where tolerance supposedly isn't being shown [but the left is allowed to because they're just being correct, not intolerant]. Is it not apparent to yourself that you're one of those self-righteous anti-Christians?

 

I am Christian and I'm on the right, I seem to control my rage of killing homosexuals, especially seeing as how one of my best friends is gay.

[re4p3r1]

• Not all Christians are homophobic
  
• Not all conservatives are homophobic
  
• Not all homophobes resort to domestic terrorism
  
• The ones that do deserve the hate that they receive.
  
• The ones that don't, don't deserve to be lumped in with the ones that do
  
• Lumping anyone that disagrees with you into that same category is ignorance and intolerance
  

I'm not asking that people pardon the KKK or Westboro Baptist. I'm asking that our oh-so-tolerant intellectual liberals actually show some tolerance rather than attacking every Christian and conservative as of they were the bastard child of Sauron and Bill Gates.

 

Not directed at you in general of course, it's a theme I've been noticing for a long time now.

 

I agree with this. If someone is vigorously bashing homosexuality, I think you have the right to vigorously bash that line of thinking. However, if someone just says they do not agree with it but they aren't doing so in a vigorous manner, then you are really kicking your own cause in the nuts if you attack them with an overly-passionate level of assertiveness. A loud man will listen to the louder man, and a gentle man will listen to the gentler man. Rhetoric is essential if you want to be listened to.

just because someone isn't vigorously against homosexuality doesn't mean they should be spared. parents who tell their kids that homosexuality is ok but is condemned in the bible are only spreading ignorance and more prejudice against homosexuality. it's like telling a kid that candy is ok to eat but it'll give you high blood pressure. they're still going to eat the candy and pick on the gays at school and grow up ignorant and tell their kids the same thing

[Alg]

just because someone isn't vigorously against homosexuality doesn't mean they should be spared. parents who tell their kids that homosexuality is ok but is condemned in the bible are only spreading ignorance and more prejudice against homosexuality. it's like telling a kid that candy is ok to eat but it'll give you high blood pressure.

What.

Saying it's okay but condemned by the bible is just saying that it's okay even though the bible condemns it. It's more like saying that racism is bad but segregation was encouraged in the past. That does not encourage racism. It reminds us that culture changes.

[Zierro]

I don't think homophobes are as big a problem as much as the all-knowing left. I have noticed many leftists in this forum always resort to irrelevant name calling, associate people that disagree with them with previous atrocities and then demonize them, ironically when it comes matters where tolerance supposedly isn't being shown [but the left is allowed to because they're just being correct, not intolerant].

 

Being a leftist myself, I've noticed this trend too.

 

just because someone isn't vigorously against homosexuality doesn't mean they should be spared. parents who tell their kids that homosexuality is ok but is condemned in the bible are only spreading ignorance and more prejudice against homosexuality. it's like telling a kid that candy is ok to eat but it'll give you high blood pressure. they're still going to eat the candy and pick on the gays at school and grow up ignorant and tell their kids the same thing

 

I never said anyone should let it slide - just that you are harming your own cause if you flame someone who is attempting to have civilized debate (even though they might be wrong).

[re4p3r1]

just because someone isn't vigorously against homosexuality doesn't mean they should be spared. parents who tell their kids that homosexuality is ok but is condemned in the bible are only spreading ignorance and more prejudice against homosexuality. it's like telling a kid that candy is ok to eat but it'll give you high blood pressure.

What.

Saying it's okay but condemned by the bible is just saying that it's okay even though the bible condemns it. It's more like saying that racism is bad but segregation was encouraged in the past. That does not encourage racism. It reminds us that culture changes.

you're not directly encouraging racism there but you're saying at one point in time it was considered ok. a kid is going to wonder why it's supposed to be bad but at one point in time it was ok or why it's alright if someone's gay but the bible and their parent's beliefs condemn it