I don't know how to put it..

 

 

 

Because we are the dominant species we can do what we want to other species. That doesn't apply to the dominant culture, race or gender though. Why not?

 

 

 

I could go ahead and say because we belong to the dominant culture we may do as we see fit to any other culture. In fact we can do as we see fit. We may choose it is fit to treat other cultures as equal of course and grant them equal rights. Slavery of blacks for example was abolished by whites, if i'm not wrong.

 

 

 

So the dominant culture of the dominant species chooses to grant other cultures the same rights, but not other species. That is completely arbitrary. It just seems to be easier to feel sympathy for members of the same species then for members of other species. You can't tell that we need animals for food or whatever, because we don't. It's just convenient to eat them. We didn't need slaves either. It just was convenient.

 

 

 

 

 

All that has nothing to do with my opinion on meat, animals, slaves or whatever.

 

Ever heard of the food chain? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

Animals die everyday and feel pain from other animals which is okay, but comming from a human "omg torture! emo signals flaring!"

 

 

 

As stated above, I don't agree with unncessary cruelty, just the fact that they are mutually our food supply and must die for us to survive.

 

I think this has been said before, but most animals have little/no ability to make choices in their diets. Humans do and meat isn't required at all for us to survive.

 

 

 

Its not Humans fault that we have choice and animals act purely on instinct. There is a big gap in difference between killing a cow to live and killing a cow for fun.

Animals die everyday and feel pain from other animals which is okay, but comming from a human "omg torture! emo signals flaring!"

 

 

 

As stated above, I don't agree with unncessary cruelty, just the fact that they are mutually our food supply and must die for us to survive.

 

I think this has been said before, but most animals have little/no ability to make choices in their diets. Humans do and meat isn't required at all for us to survive.

 

 

 

Its not Humans fault that we have choice and animals act purely on instinct. There is a big gap in difference between killing a cow to live and killing a cow for fun.

 

Given that we do have a choice and informed decisions, it seems in our best interest that we do. I actually find it funny the way you phrased your second sentence. Commercial industry doesn't kill cows so we can survive. It kills cows so people can enjoy the taste of meat, essentially for fun.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are people out there who rely on having to kill animals for protein and other nutrients, but when you're driving down to the grocery store and picking up 2 pounds of ground buff, it's not for survival.

Animals die everyday and feel pain from other animals which is okay, but comming from a human "omg torture! emo signals flaring!"

 

 

 

As stated above, I don't agree with unncessary cruelty, just the fact that they are mutually our food supply and must die for us to survive.

 

I think this has been said before, but most animals have little/no ability to make choices in their diets. Humans do and meat isn't required at all for us to survive.

 

 

 

Its not Humans fault that we have choice and animals act purely on instinct. There is a big gap in difference between killing a cow to live and killing a cow for fun.

 

Given that we do have a choice and informed decisions, it seems in our best interest that we do. I actually find it funny the way you phrased your second sentence. Commercial industry doesn't kill cows so we can survive. It kills cows so people can enjoy the taste of meat, essentially for fun.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are people out there who rely on having to kill animals for protein and other nutrients, but when you're driving down to the grocery store and picking up 2 pounds of ground buff, it's not for survival.

 

 

 

This is what confuses me about the community, their a paradox.

 

 

 

First, some people here claim we are animals to the very core, nothing but savages when kicked out of society, where morality holds no place in us.

 

 

 

Then, we should have morality and be less cruel to animals because we have choice, but only that apparantly happens in developed societies where morality issues play its part, but deep inside us were just really savages, so why care at all?

 

 

 

Well here is my final opinion, refute it if you will but it will not change my mind.

 

 

 

In nature, all animals kill each other to live. Man kills animals to live to, this is how its always been. If you want animals to recieve special treatment, I suggest you start raising a animal fund raiser ASAP.

 

 

 

And Dark, I guess we just buy food to play with it. Apparently eating meat has nothing to do with us living inspite the fact its required to live.

 

 

 

Hypothetically we could all become vegitarians.

 

Realisticly.. get real, your not going to convince 6 billion people to switch their diet plans.

 

 

 

And last but not least, this is about animal cruelty, not survival. Besides, what would you guys do if we all became vegitarians and a major disaster hit, like the dust bowl. You would go starving to death.

This is what confuses me about the community, their a paradox.

 

 

 

First, some people here claim we are animals to the very core, nothing but savages when kicked out of society, where morality holds no place in us.

 

 

 

Then, we should have morality and be less cruel to animals because we have choice, but only that apparantly happens in developed societies where morality issues play its part, but deep inside us were just really savages, so why care at all?

 

Thats only a paradox if people claim all those absurdities, which I haven't and I don't know if anyone else has.

 

 

 

Well here is my final opinion, refute it if you will but it will not change my mind.

 

 

 

In nature, all animals kill each other to live. Man kills animals to live to, this is how its always been. If you want animals to recieve special treatment, I suggest you start raising a animal fund raiser ASAP.

 

 

 

And Dark, I guess we just buy food to play with it. Apparently eating meat has nothing to do with us living inspite the fact its required to live.

 

In modern society, for almost every single person alive, meat is not required to live. It's a fallacy and repeating it doesn't give it any more validity.

 

 

 

Hypothetically we could all become vegitarians.

 

Realisticly.. get real, your not going to convince 6 billion people to switch their diet plans.

 

 

 

And last but not least, this is about animal cruelty, not survival. Besides, what would you guys do if we all became vegitarians and a major disaster hit, like the dust bowl. You would go starving to death.

 

If that happened, a lot of people would be [bleep]ed even if they eat meat. The animals you eat aren't being fed by sunshine, if food was that scarce they would likely be dieing too and/or the price of meat would skyrocket. But in reality, stuff like fruits/vegetables and really food in general is so globalized that while it would have a significant effect, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

In modern society, for almost every single person alive, meat is not required to live. It's a fallacy and repeating it doesn't give it any more validity.

 

If you take away a major part of the food chain, the entire community would be affected.

 

In modern society, for almost every single person alive, meat is not required to live. It's a fallacy and repeating it doesn't give it any more validity.

 

If you take away a major part of the food chain, the entire community would be affected.

 

I'm not sure I get your point. If the commercial farms producing meat disappeared over night and nothing was there to replace them then yes, it would have a large effect. In reality though something like that would happen over time, my claim wasn't that if they all disappeared nothing would happen, it was that if they were replaced it would be able to more than fill the gap.

 

 

 

I don't know how to put it..

 

 

 

Because we are the dominant species we can do what we want to other species. That doesn't apply to the dominant culture, race or gender though. Why not?

 

 

 

I could go ahead and say because we belong to the dominant culture we may do as we see fit to any other culture. In fact we can do as we see fit. We may choose it is fit to treat other cultures as equal of course and grant them equal rights. Slavery of blacks for example was abolished by whites, if i'm not wrong.

 

 

 

So the dominant culture of the dominant species chooses to grant other cultures the same rights, but not other species. That is completely arbitrary. It just seems to be easier to feel sympathy for members of the same species then for members of other species. You can't tell that we need animals for food or whatever, because we don't. It's just convenient to eat them. We didn't need slaves either. It just was convenient.

 

 

 

 

 

All that has nothing to do with my opinion on meat, animals, slaves or whatever.

 

Ever heard of the food chain? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

 

 

 

Ever heard of pecking order? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

if i saw a man in the street that had been shot i would not help in any way - he could be a mass murderer for all i know.

 

 

 

if i saw an animal such as a dog or cat shot in the street, i would do what i could to help it, if i saw the person that shot it i would attempt to stop him for the sheer reason that if he misfires and i act quick enough he WILL feel the pain he inflicted on animals.

 

 

 

if i had a gun and i saw someone abusing an animal, i would shoot the animal abuser - even if there were policemen nearby.

 

 

 

animal abusers deserve more than death - deaths the easy way out, i would use all medieval torchure (sp?) methods before killing him/her.

 

O:)

 

 

 

I don't know how to put it..

 

 

 

Because we are the dominant species we can do what we want to other species. That doesn't apply to the dominant culture, race or gender though. Why not?

 

 

 

I could go ahead and say because we belong to the dominant culture we may do as we see fit to any other culture. In fact we can do as we see fit. We may choose it is fit to treat other cultures as equal of course and grant them equal rights. Slavery of blacks for example was abolished by whites, if i'm not wrong.

 

 

 

So the dominant culture of the dominant species chooses to grant other cultures the same rights, but not other species. That is completely arbitrary. It just seems to be easier to feel sympathy for members of the same species then for members of other species. You can't tell that we need animals for food or whatever, because we don't. It's just convenient to eat them. We didn't need slaves either. It just was convenient.

 

 

 

 

 

All that has nothing to do with my opinion on meat, animals, slaves or whatever.

 

Ever heard of the food chain? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

 

 

 

Ever heard of pecking order? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

 

Yes. Food chain = pecking order. What is your point?

 

 

 

I don't know how to put it..

 

 

 

Because we are the dominant species we can do what we want to other species. That doesn't apply to the dominant culture, race or gender though. Why not?

 

 

 

I could go ahead and say because we belong to the dominant culture we may do as we see fit to any other culture. In fact we can do as we see fit. We may choose it is fit to treat other cultures as equal of course and grant them equal rights. Slavery of blacks for example was abolished by whites, if i'm not wrong.

 

 

 

So the dominant culture of the dominant species chooses to grant other cultures the same rights, but not other species. That is completely arbitrary. It just seems to be easier to feel sympathy for members of the same species then for members of other species. You can't tell that we need animals for food or whatever, because we don't. It's just convenient to eat them. We didn't need slaves either. It just was convenient.

 

 

 

 

 

All that has nothing to do with my opinion on meat, animals, slaves or whatever.

 

Ever heard of the food chain? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

 

 

 

Ever heard of pecking order? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

 

Yes. Food chain = pecking order. What is your point?

 

 

 

Food chain =/= pecking order. Pecking order just says that the stronger will take advantage of his strength, to ensure he gets as much as possible and keep the strongest. Pecking order is established between members of the same species, between siblings and such.

 

 

 

Point is that we neither need meat (as was somehow suggested by your food chain comment), nor do we need slavery (as i was basically referring to with my comment).

 

 

 

What was your point again with the food chain comment?

 

 

 

I don't know how to put it..

 

 

 

Because we are the dominant species we can do what we want to other species. That doesn't apply to the dominant culture, race or gender though. Why not?

 

 

 

I could go ahead and say because we belong to the dominant culture we may do as we see fit to any other culture. In fact we can do as we see fit. We may choose it is fit to treat other cultures as equal of course and grant them equal rights. Slavery of blacks for example was abolished by whites, if i'm not wrong.

 

 

 

So the dominant culture of the dominant species chooses to grant other cultures the same rights, but not other species. That is completely arbitrary. It just seems to be easier to feel sympathy for members of the same species then for members of other species. You can't tell that we need animals for food or whatever, because we don't. It's just convenient to eat them. We didn't need slaves either. It just was convenient.

 

 

 

 

 

All that has nothing to do with my opinion on meat, animals, slaves or whatever.

 

Ever heard of the food chain? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

 

 

 

Ever heard of pecking order? It's not something that we humans invented. It's a vital part of nature.

 

Yes. Food chain = pecking order. What is your point?

 

 

 

Food chain =/= pecking order. Pecking order just says that the stronger will take advantage of his strength, to ensure he gets as much as possible and keep the strongest. Pecking order is established between members of the same species, between siblings and such.

 

 

 

Point is that we neither need meat (as was somehow suggested by your food chain comment), nor do we need slavery (as i was basically referring to with my comment).

 

 

 

What was your point again with the food chain comment?

 

Your original post said that dividing subservience at the species level is arbitrary. I said that it is not arbitrary at all because it is the food chain. No matter what you attempt to compare eating meat to (slavery, pecking order, etc), the fact remains that it is an action of the food chain and, therefore, of Nature.

flame me if you will, but it wont phase me or change my opinion.

 

 

 

It isn't good to be close-minded like that. If someone presents a fantastic argument, what if it does change your opinion? You might say that it's unlikely to change your opinion, but give people a chance possibly.

 

 

 

i'm not closed-minded, i'm just very set in my opinions. I like hunting, and I like eating meat. I don't disregard other people's opinions, I simply disagree with most of them.

 

 

 

In modern society, for almost every single person alive, meat is not required to live. It's a fallacy and repeating it doesn't give it any more validity.

 

 

 

i've read studies that claim that it's impossible to be healthy without at least a little bit of meat in your diet, and i've yet to personally meet a healthy vegetarian. so no, i guess it isn't required to live, but it certainly makes the quality of life better. you don't require the internet or a computer, or any of modern technology to live either, but would you want to live without it? i certainly wouldn't, and i'm not giving up meat unless vegetarians give up the internet so i can stop hearing all this bs. :roll:

if i saw a man in the street that had been shot i would not help in any way - he could be a mass murderer for all i know.

 

 

 

if i saw an animal such as a dog or cat shot in the street, i would do what i could to help it, if i saw the person that shot it i would attempt to stop him for the sheer reason that if he misfires and i act quick enough he WILL feel the pain he inflicted on animals.

 

 

 

if i had a gun and i saw someone abusing an animal, i would shoot the animal abuser - even if there were policemen nearby.

 

 

 

animal abusers deserve more than death - deaths the easy way out, i would use all medieval torchure (sp?) methods before killing him/her.

 

O:)

 

 

 

There is something mentally wrong with you. In fact, a lot of people on this thread are messed up.

 

 

 

A human life is more valuable than an animal's life. Full stop. And if you think otherwise, you need to rethink your moral values.

 

 

 

An animal does not have a brain even close to ours. It's just not as developed. Perhaps you should stop looking at animals, and focus on not killing members of your own species. Animals don't even have human emotions. Ever saw your dog smile? Well, it didn't. Dogs don't have cheeks.

 

 

 

Now, not all animals are great. For example, monkeys murder each other. Species knowingly commit infanticide (killing your child). Dolphin males even pack rape females. Would you spare the person abusing the murderous monkey, or let the murderous monkey live, and the member of your own species live?

 

 

 

Oh, by the way, I'm a member of PETA, like many others.

 

Proud Eater of Tasty Animals.

 

 

 

Edit: Realising that people will read many things into my post and flame me with them, I'll say this: I do not condone animal cruelty. It's wrong. But to value an animal's life over a human's is worse.

Anything with no legs or more than 4 legs in my book has the right to a horrible death by high heel slash hair dryer.

if i saw a man in the street that had been shot i would not help in any way - he could be a mass murderer for all i know.

 

 

 

if i saw an animal such as a dog or cat shot in the street, i would do what i could to help it, if i saw the person that shot it i would attempt to stop him for the sheer reason that if he misfires and i act quick enough he WILL feel the pain he inflicted on animals.

 

 

 

if i had a gun and i saw someone abusing an animal, i would shoot the animal abuser - even if there were policemen nearby.

 

 

 

animal abusers deserve more than death - deaths the easy way out, i would use all medieval torchure (sp?) methods before killing him/her.

 

O:)

 

 

 

There is something mentally wrong with you. In fact, a lot of people on this thread are messed up.

 

 

 

A human life is more valuable than an animal's life. Full stop. And if you think otherwise, you need to rethink your moral values.

 

 

 

An animal does not have a brain even close to ours. It's just not as developed. Perhaps you should stop looking at animals, and focus on not killing members of your own species. Animals don't even have human emotions. Ever saw your dog smile? Well, it didn't. Dogs don't have cheeks.

 

 

 

Now, not all animals are great. For example, monkeys murder each other. Species knowingly commit infanticide (killing your child). Dolphin males even pack rape females. Would you spare the person abusing the murderous monkey, or let the murderous monkey live, and the member of your own species live?

 

 

 

Oh, by the way, I'm a member of PETA, like many others.

 

Proud Eater of Tasty Animals.

 

 

 

Edit: Realising that people will read many things into my post and flame me with them, I'll say this: I do not condone animal cruelty. It's wrong. But to value an animal's life over a human's is worse.

 

 

 

EDIT: Wait a second, you're against animal abuse, yet will gladly abuse your own species? Wha..?

Heres my point:

 

 

 

We need them to survive. I don't mind if you kill it perfectly humane and eat it ALL and leaving scraps off unused meat everywhere.

 

But when its inhumane its just wrong.

 

I'm all for killing a few 100 sewer rats for cures but not for it at all if they're put through so much pain unbelievable. No one or animal deserves to fell immense pain of a really bad medical problem its totally inhumane.

 

 

 

But the line is finally drawn when it comes to beauty products tested on animals its wrong and its unfair what did they do to deserve to be part of your profit?

There is something mentally wrong with you.

 

 

 

That was uncalled for even if his ideas aren't aligned with yours or mine.

There is something mentally wrong with you.

 

 

 

That was uncalled for even if his ideas aren't aligned with yours or mine.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

I was waiting for your reply godess :P

 

A topic isn't a topic with out you :mrgreen:

There is something mentally wrong with you.

 

 

 

That was uncalled for even if his ideas aren't aligned with yours or mine.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

I was waiting for your reply godess :P

 

A topic isn't a topic with out you :mrgreen:

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how a person can value an animal's life over that of a member of their own species. To know that people think like that really disturbs me.

Anything with no legs or more than 4 legs in my book has the right to a horrible death by high heel slash hair dryer.

 

 

 

Like Butterflys? =P

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how a person can value an animal's life over that of a member of their own species. To know that people think like that really disturbs me.

 

 

 

To me there is no inherent importance in belonging to the same species. I'm an individual, as are you. Whether you are human, klingon, dolphin or butterfly is secondary.

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how a person can value an animal's life over that of a member of their own species. To know that people think like that really disturbs me.

 

 

 

To me there is no inherent importance in belonging to the same species. I'm an individual, as are you. Whether you are human, klingon, dolphin or butterfly is secondary.

 

 

 

So why are there laws against cannibalism, yet few against eating other species?

Like Butterflys? =P

 

 

 

Depends how big... LOL

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how a person can value an animal's life over that of a member of their own species. To know that people think like that really disturbs me.

 

 

 

I understand that sometimes people's beliefs and values different to your own can fluster you. I mean there have been plenty of times when I've felt like hitting myself over the head. However, I'm asking you why it is okay to insult not only the person you disagreed with but to those on the forum who are in fact mentally challenged?

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how a person can value an animal's life over that of a member of their own species. To know that people think like that really disturbs me.

 

 

 

I understand that sometimes people's beliefs and values different to your own can fluster you. I mean there have been plenty of times when I've felt like hitting myself over the head. However, I'm asking you why it is okay to insult not only the person you disagreed with but to those on the forum who are in fact mentally challenged?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Godess.

 

 

 

And I never said and I don't think anyone else said, that they value animals over another human life. But this thread is concentrated AT animals. Not at humans, so I understand how this may come across to some people.

 

 

 

~Brs

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how a person can value an animal's life over that of a member of their own species. To know that people think like that really disturbs me.

 

 

 

To me there is no inherent importance in belonging to the same species. I'm an individual, as are you. Whether you are human, klingon, dolphin or butterfly is secondary.

 

 

 

So why are there laws against cannibalism, yet few against eating other species?

 

 

 

Because most people wouldn't agree with me, i guess.