Gordon Brown has ordered security checks on all government departments to ensure data is properly protected after the loss of 25m child benefit records.

 

 

 

Under the plans, the Information Commissioner will be given powers to carry out spot checks - a move previously rejected by ministers.

 

 

 

In the Commons, the PM apologised for the "inconvenience and worries" caused.

 

 

 

Full story -

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7106366.stm

 

 

 

Well, i know this is another one of those OMG NEWS POST posts but I'd like to discuss it.

 

 

 

I personally receive child benefit in the form of Educational Maintenance Allowance (EMA) for staying on at school, and I find it a bit worrying that the government can just 'lose' 25 million records. What happens if these records aren't 'properly protected' and international terrorists(hey.. it could happen) have access to all the details of those claiming child benefits in the UK.

 

Anyways views/thoughts..

 

 

 

 

 

 

The trail of events that lead to the government being blamed =/

The Tories are going to blame Brown when it was the fault of an individual not an organisation. There were protocols put in place but they were not adhered to. It is not the governments fault. I bet TNT have got shed loads of staff checking their warehouses and there will be a lot of people searching depots and transports.

A thousand or two minor documents, I could understand. But 25 MILLION?!?! I'm sorry, people, but thats a whole lotta f**kup. Either they got covertly put into a black-ops type safe on some random-a**ed island or intentionally destroyed. The chances of this truly happening on a mistake are akin to them getting blown up by a meteor. :wall:

Two things shock me....

 

 

 

1. That 25 million people in Britain are claiming child benefits... that's 38% of the population!!! No wonder there's no money left for anything else

 

 

 

2. That our prime minster Gordon Brown is getting the blame. Yer.... it's his fault some low level clerk whom he's never met or even knew existed, messed up the postage on something neither he nor his party have actual direct control over.

 

 

 

Gotta love the British press.... if there's a mole hill somewhere, they'll build a mountain (then probably blame the mole for it)

Don't worry Brad, you've actually cared to elaborate and discuss a news story, so good on you ^_^

 

 

 

The Tories are going to blame Brown when it was the fault of an individual not an organisation. There were protocols put in place but they were not adhered to. It is not the governments fault. I bet TNT have got shed loads of staff checking their warehouses and there will be a lot of people searching depots and transports.

 

 

 

Sums it up for me, really.

The title is incredibly unfair. There were protocols in place to ensure that this sort of thing didn't happen. It is simply down to the ignorance of an individual that this happened. I cannot believe someone would have the incompetance to send 25M people's records on a CD-ROM, unencrypted, through the post, not once, but THREE times.

 

 

 

1. That 25 million people in Britain are claiming child benefits... that's 38% of the population!!! No wonder there's no money left for anything else

 

Wrong actually. That database contains not only the information about the children who the benefits are intended for, but their parent(s). Also, anyone that has claimed previously would be on there. It's actually nearer 15 million children currently.

 

 

 

BTW, I receive EMA, and it says quite clearly EMA is not a form of child benefit. :wall:

 

BTW, I receive EMA, and it says quite clearly EMA is not a form of child benefit. :wall:

 

 

 

Meh I heard on the news last night that EMA would get affected by it.. But whatever... And as for the title, I'm using the same title the media did.. Which i know is wrong but i couldn't help it :twisted:

The Tories are going to blame Brown when it was the fault of an individual not an organisation. There were protocols put in place but they were not adhered to. It is not the governments fault.

 

 

 

They left a single junior administrative officer in charge (who has now resigned) when he should never have been though. Thats not necessarily Brown's fault but its definitely a failing of the organisation's protocols in my opinion.

Brown is responsible for these kind of mess ups as far as who are the people meant to blame. Hes the prime minister for a reason, and he has to answer to problems his members create. Utter incompetence. Old Paxman hinted that this could be an example of what turns the people further against Brown and the Conservatives may profit if they capitalise.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/21 ... y_auction/

Brown is responsible for these kind of mess ups as far as who are the people meant to blame. Hes the prime minister for a reason, and he has to answer to problems his members create. Utter incompetence. Old Paxman hinted that this could be an example of what turns the people further against Brown and the Conservatives may profit if they capitalise.

 

I'm sorry but I feel a need to question you here. What exactly could either Brown or Darling have done to ensure this didn't happen? Likewise, they appoint people, who are payed bucket-loads of money, to ensure this doesn't happen. As for "answering" to the problems, he's ordered an investigation into why this was allowed to happen. We'll await the results of that report and see what action he takes before jumping to hasty conclusions.

 

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting Brown's job is to keep an eye on every single person (and there are thousands) who work in an office related to government?

 

 

 

The Tories won't profit from this either. All this will do in undermine the already fragile confidence the public have in our political system. I'm amazed you, as a BNP supporter, don't realise that the only people who take advantage from this politically are radical parties such as yourself.

[hide]

Brown is responsible for these kind of mess ups as far as who are the people meant to blame. Hes the prime minister for a reason, and he has to answer to problems his members create. Utter incompetence. Old Paxman hinted that this could be an example of what turns the people further against Brown and the Conservatives may profit if they capitalise.

 

I'm sorry but I feel a need to question you here. What exactly could either Brown or Darling done to ensure this didn't happen? Likewise, they appoint people, who are payed bucket-loads of money, to ensure this doesn't happen. As for "answering" to the problems, he's ordered an investigation into why this was allowed to happen. We'll await the results of that report and see what action he takes before jumping to hasty conclusions.

 

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting Brown's job is to keep an eye on every single person (and there are thousands) who works in an office related to government?[/hide]

 

 

 

The Tories won't profit from this either. All this will do in undermine the already fragile confidence the public have in our political system.

 

 

 

According to ITN news (about half an hour ago) the reason they were being posted was because of cost cutting procedures that were put in place by the previous Chancellor, Gordon Brown, so it may just benefit the Tories.

this is why i cant wait till the 3rd of june 2010, or hopefully earlier.

Are you seriously suggesting Brown's job is to keep an eye on every single person (and there are thousands) who work in an office related to government?

1500 people work in my building alone...

Brown is responsible for these kind of mess ups as far as who are the people meant to blame. Hes the prime minister for a reason, and he has to answer to problems his members create. Utter incompetence. Old Paxman hinted that this could be an example of what turns the people further against Brown and the Conservatives may profit if they capitalise.

 

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting Brown's job is to keep an eye on every single person (and there are thousands) who work in an office related to government?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ginger Warrior wins here - the constitutional convention of ministerial accountability would not apply in this scenario. A minister must accept responsibility where protocols/directions have been adhered too (obviously not the case here) - if not then there is no onus for the minister to resign or be challenged - he can even throw the civil servant to the press if he wishes.

 

 

 

I'll provide sources if needed, too early atm.

Read about this this morning in the paper, that's more people than the entire population of Australia. Scary man, hope no-one here is effected.

That's just impossible to believe, that it was an "accident". And for some reason, this particular set of CD's sent by courier somehow got "lost".

 

 

 

I don't think the lot of you quite understand how much money criminals could make by opening bank accounts/claiming credit/claiming benefits with total access to another person's details, pictures, home address, social security number etc. :shock:

 

 

 

I really feel sorry for the families though that definitely don't deserve this. The records still haven't been found, they are probably being abused with a 100% certainty as we speak.

they are probably being abused with a 100% certainty as we speak.

Unlikely. They are more likely to sit on these details for months possibly even years before registering accounts in the childrens names. Those children ages 17 are the ones most likely to have their identities used by criminals when they turn 18.

Brown is responsible for these kind of mess ups as far as who are the people meant to blame. Hes the prime minister for a reason, and he has to answer to problems his members create. Utter incompetence. Old Paxman hinted that this could be an example of what turns the people further against Brown and the Conservatives may profit if they capitalise.

 

I'm sorry but I feel a need to question you here. What exactly could either Brown or Darling have done to ensure this didn't happen? Likewise, they appoint people, who are payed bucket-loads of money, to ensure this doesn't happen. As for "answering" to the problems, he's ordered an investigation into why this was allowed to happen. We'll await the results of that report and see what action he takes before jumping to hasty conclusions.

 

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting Brown's job is to keep an eye on every single person (and there are thousands) who work in an office related to government?

 

 

 

The Tories won't profit from this either. All this will do in undermine the already fragile confidence the public have in our political system. I'm amazed you, as a BNP supporter, don't realise that the only people who take advantage from this politically are radical parties such as yourself.

 

 

 

The country is going to see this as a blunder that will ultimately affect Browns position as prime minister. What im trying to say is not in some official way Brown is at fault because he personally didn't do anything wrong, but the effects of the people in his party will be largely whether he is seen as a credible prime minister. If the people are going to blame someone for this they won't look at some random person in the labour party, they'll look at Brown because he is the face of Labour. Its a bit naive to think people aren't going to look at Brown for this, mess ups like this will show in opinion polls and hopefully in future elections.

^ Now I see what you meant and, I have to agree. The naive/ignorant will just go to the top man in all this and it could be damaging to Brown, although we may all agree it shouldn't be.

they are probably being abused with a 100% certainty as we speak.

Unlikely. They are more likely to sit on these details for months possibly even years before registering accounts in the childrens names. Those children ages 17 are the ones most likely to have their identities used by criminals when they turn 18.

 

 

 

Yeah, apparently there's some kind of system in place now which is watching for any accounts created in those names.

A huge mess up by our Goverment. Though they do believe that the disks are still on Goverment property. I'm feeling optimistic. ^_^

 

 

 

Seems unfair that people want the guy who made the speech to quit though, it was down to other people making the problem so he shouldn't really receive the blame. :?

If it was down to a single junior official (contradicted by reports that a manager declined to censor the sensitive unwanted parts as requested by the NAO) *WHY* was he able to access and export the entire database on his own? That is a serious systemic failure in it's own right.

 

 

 

I personally suspect they are DVD's not CD's 2 cds means 1300MB of storage, so 25 million records (complete) is only 54.5 bytes a record, to hold names, addresses, NI numbers, bank account details.

 

 

 

"Single junior official" phrase, lit: scapegoat.

they are probably being abused with a 100% certainty as we speak.

Unlikely. They are more likely to sit on these details for months possibly even years before registering accounts in the childrens names. Those children ages 17 are the ones most likely to have their identities used by criminals when they turn 18.

 

 

 

I know what you're thinking of, but then again, most people recieving the child care on their bank accounts are adults, correct me if this is not the custom in the UK...

 

 

 

At least in the US, I don't know many families where the money is paid on the child's bank account (and in most cases, a young kid doesn't even have one). It's paid on the parents bank account (therefore, their identity is recorded), and they spend it ideally on their children and their welfare/hobbies [or booze..]

Benefits are paid directly into the parents'/guardians' bank account. Perhaps that actually drags up an old ghost, which is, why did they demand benefits be paid into a bank balance, and take that responsibility away from the Post Office like it had always traditionally been? If the money was going into the Post Office, where obviously not as much money is saved, the potential fallout of this could have been severely less.

 

 

 

The police have said there's no evidence this has gotten into the criminal underworld anyway.