Woodcutting and the Duel Arena?

[Huta]

I'm certain it's old news to pretty much the entire RuneScape fanbase that on Tuesday, November 20th, 2007, Jagex Ltd. released a highly controversial update that in effect destroyed the entire staking section of RuneScape.

 

 

 

For the most part, it's only affected that one segment of the playerbase, and responses to this update reflect that. While some non-stakers (such as myself) have opposed this update (strongly), it's been primarily the staker base that has been speaking up.

 

 

 

But why?

 

 

 

Sure, sure, it's only a bunch of stupid pures and stakers that never experience the rest of the game that are affected. If they actually cared about the game, then they'd just move on to some other activity, right? It's only the duel arena.

 

 

 

Let me get this straight - I am NOT a staker. Yes, I used to pk a lot, but I never got into staking, so please don't say I'm just mad that Jagex took away my income. They didn't.

 

 

 

Then why do I oppose it?

 

 

 

It's kinda shortsighted to simply blow this off as something that doesn't affect us, and given some time, people will just adjust, like they did with the pure essence update and other epic failures of Jagex' in the past. To anybody that looks at this update, it's plainly obvious this does nothing but slightly incovinience real world traders, at the expense of thousands of legetimate players, many of whom simply played for this very minigame.

 

 

 

Is that how far Jagex is willing to go? For the purpose of merely limiting one of the options cheaters use, they basically eliminated a part of the game that has been around for literally years.

 

 

 

Autoers, computer controlled accounts, simply repeat a a repetitive task over and over, thousands of times, collecting resources to sell for RS gold. This gold was then collected and transfered to players that payed real money for this ingame gold. One of the ways the macros transfered this money to the buyers was through the duel arena.

 

 

 

That's right. Despite Jagex' claims that they "went for the root", all they did was take a stab at the messenger. They didn't fix a thing, other than forcing the traders to find some other way to transfer funds, and believe me, those aren't hard to find. Personally, I haven't even given it much thought, but off the top of my head, I can come up with at least 6 alternatives they can use besides drop-trading or the duel arena. It's not hard. They killed off an old, well-established, major part of our game just to limit their options by one. Wow.

 

 

 

What else does this update show? That they're willing to cut even popular, major parts out in this crusade against autoers, even if it is for minor results. It shows they don't care how upset what they remove makes their players, and through that, it shows NOTHING is untouchable.

 

 

 

Question is, what's next?

 

 

 

Let me list a few things that could be the next to hit the axe.

 

 

 

 

 

1) Woodcutting.

 

 

 

Yes, woodcutting. Sure, it sounds farfetched. If it hadn't been for Tuesday's update, I'd have called you nuts if you'd have suggested they might mess with a skill like that.

 

 

 

Now, I'm not so sure.

 

 

 

Look at the past for a second. Jagex appearently has already come to the conclusion that redesigning things, even in very major ways with possible negative consequences, is fine, if it takes a stab at autoers in some way.

 

 

 

Remember the pure essence update? Remember the recent shop update? They show that one of the ways Jagex plans to combat botters is to attack the ways they gather resources in the first place.

 

 

 

Woodcutting stands out as a prime example of a botter's favorite skill. Just take a walk through any f2p world, and to lesser visited spots in members' worlds. If Jagex plans to attack just one commonly macroed skill, woodcutting would be it.

 

 

 

How they're going to change this skill, I don't know, but I would be shocked if this skill comes out of this "war" unscathed, and looking at past failures, like pure essence and the duel arena, I almost don't want to know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Flax.

 

 

 

This one doesn't seem quite as far-off as the past possibility does, and if it were changed, I don't think that many people would mind. Yeah, a few newish members might be out of a job, but it has nowhere the reprocussions of say woodcutting, or staking.

 

 

 

Still, it shouldn't be ignored. Say Jagex were to remove every flax plant in the game, and in their place use something like the recent changes to battlestaves and seaweed, it would be only a temporary solution.

 

 

 

Who likes spinning flax? In comparision to fletching, not many. All making flax unpickable would do is move those macros to some other area, say spinning flax instead of picking it? It couldn't be hard for botters to pick that flax up, especially with the Grand Exchange on the horizion.

 

 

 

Then what? Remove flax entirely and have stores with infinate bowstring stocks? Sure, it might not be the worst update, but it's just another innocent part of the game that gets cut, and unless it has a major and direct improvement on the macro problem, I'd just rather not see it change. Forgive me for saying so, but for some reason I don't seem too trusting of Jagex' judgement lately...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Inter-player trading

 

 

 

This idea has been bouncing around for a while now. People have been debating if perhaps this Grand Exchange that is planned will be the cue for Jagex to remove direct trading entirely. For now, all we can do is wait and hope...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4, 5, and 6) Dragons and Crafting, RuneCrafting, and Prayer

 

 

 

These are mostly interrelated. Everybody knows that dragons, both green and blue, are popular with sweatshop farmers and autoers. Runecrafting also has seen it's fair share of problems, with an unnerving number of runecrafting bots being seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know, most of this is guesswork. At this point in time, it's impossible to predict anything for sure. But has what I've said been so hard to believe in light of the latest update? The duel arena has lost most of it's purpose just in the name of slowing down RWT...what about the origins of those funds in the first place?

 

 

 

I know a lot of people may not have been as upset by the changes to the arena as perhaps the people that used it frequently, but I need everybody to put away the "Haha, stakers got p00nt" sterotypes. Yeah, you may not like pkers or stakers, and yeah, there may be some merit to that at times.

 

 

 

That's not the point. This doesn't just affect stakers. This is nothing but showing what Jagex is willing to do. Justified or not, is this what you want to see happen to this game?

 

 

 

Just some food for thought.

[Lacrosse_fan]

The people at Jagex aren't THAT dumb...

 

 

 

 

 

Are they?

[Huta]

The people at Jagex aren't THAT dumb...

 

 

 

 

 

Are they?

 

 

 

Good question...are they?

[Slayr]

Wow, that's in depth!

 

I agree with you about what they might update next. If direct trading was removed, well, that would be bad.

[Dragonlordjl]

As I've said in other threads, it speaks volumes about Jagex's public approval when people actually consider updates like "removing player-to-player trading" as possible. Jagex have dug themselves a deep, deep hole with this.

[Runeman231]

The only way I could think of them changing Woodcutting(and possibly make it less tedious :D ) is if they broke it up into several steps:

 

-Fall the tree

 

-Carve and chop it up

 

-bundle the logs

 

 

 

I know that some people would complain that it prevents them from AFK training Woodcut but that's against the rules anyway. :D

 

 

 

Just a possibility...

[Huta]

The only way I could think of them changing Woodcutting(and possibly make it less tedious :D ) is if they broke it up into several steps:

 

-Fall the tree

 

-Carve and chop it up

 

-bundle the logs

 

 

 

I know that some people would complain that it prevents them from AFK training Woodcut but that's against the rules anyway. :D

 

 

 

Just a possibility...

 

 

 

Even in Jagex' eyes, that doesn't do a thing for or against autoing. Just a bit more coding for the botters.

 

 

 

Nah, when they do something, it'll probably be much more serious than that.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Let's try to use what's between our ears, here.

 

 

 

Woodcutting is a skill. Duel Arena is a minigame.

 

 

 

Woodcutting cannot receive 'the axe' (no pun intended), meaning that there wouldn't have been any point to train it in the first place.

 

 

 

Duel Arena is something that affects players either a lot or none at all. There's not many integral quests or super-duper important things at the Duel Arena, save for that lone person you have to talk to for a Treasure Trail clue, so something along the lines of that could receive a "nerfing", as you so empathetically put it.

 

 

 

To summarize: Duel Arena isn't a skill. It's quite superfluous, in the sense that such an update can affect a certain group of players, and the other groups may or may not give a damn. Woodcutting is a skill. It's not superfluous, and if it is made impractical to gather up resources with, then that would be ritual suicide.

 

 

 

[Note]

[gameboypen]

Well thought out ideas, good work. But I believe Jagex won't go that far, especially since what they have done now. But you never know.

 

 

 

Will be funny to get 99 WC and they make ti harder or you have to concentrate unlike watching TV. :anxious:

[Huta]

Let's try to use what's between our ears, here.

 

 

 

Woodcutting is a skill. Duel Arena is a minigame.

 

 

 

Woodcutting cannot receive 'the axe' (no pun intended), meaning that there wouldn't have been any point to train it in the first place.

 

 

 

Duel Arena is something that affects players either a lot or none at all. There's not many integral quests or super-duper important things at the Duel Arena, save for that lone person you have to talk to for a Treasure Trail clue, so something along the lines of that could receive a "nerfing", as you so empathetically put it.

 

 

 

To summarize: Duel Arena isn't a skill. It's quite superfluous, in the sense that such an update can affect a certain group of players, and the other groups may or may not give a damn. Woodcutting is a skill. It's not superfluous, and if it is made impractical to gather up resources with, then that would be ritual suicide.

 

 

 

[Note]

 

 

 

Sorry, but your logic fails. Don't think that the fact that woodcutting is a skill makes it immune to screwing.

 

 

 

Sure, they can't just "remove" woodcutting. Did they remove the duel arena? No. But they still did effectively kill it.

 

 

 

Besides, it's already impractical to woodcut for profit. Profit made from it doesn't even compare to other skills, like runecrafting, or hunting. Nobody gets rich off woodcutting, but botters.

 

 

 

Yes, there are differences between woodcutting and the duel arena. But trust me, if Jagex didn't mind destroying something as popular as the duel arena, they won't have a problem "reworking" woodcutting if they think they need to. And their track record doesn't make that "rework" look too promising.

[mugged99]

To anybody that looks at this update, it's plainly obvious this does nothing but slightly incovinience real world traders, at the expense of thousands of legetimate players, many of whom simply played for this very minigame.

 

 

 

Prove it. You cant establish logos through random facts. Where are the numbers?

 

 

 

Nice thread, makes sense, I agree jagex took it a little far this time; but i was never a staker :XD:. Not much changed though, u can still win lots of money by 'staking' very little using tournys

[samurai_lassie]

Lets say that jagex came to the conclusion woodcutting was aiding autoers far to much, if the skill was taken or cut short and this resulted in ending of membership subscriptions they would of course put it back in.

 

 

 

There are people behind jagex its a large company and knows that even if they made an update such as disbenefiting all stakers people will still play. Lets say 10,000 players players sent jagex a message brifeing they are unhappy with the update and cancelling there membership that is about $85,000 Aus Jagex lost from only one month of those players leaving.

 

 

 

Jagex don't give a [cabbage] what people have a rant about there not loosing money. My personal view of it Jagex should be doing a lot more to banning bots then irritating them, i reported over 100 woodcutting bots which took me 2 hours I came back a week later and they were still there .

 

 

 

The main reason I have cancelled my subscription is because i was sick of the updates, great your putting more into the game! but your also affecting the people who have just reached a level which took them a month to get a week later you put some new ability in and you can get it in a few days.

 

 

 

To be honest if Jagex increases the exp/per h on mining or makes farming or mining easier in any given way I will never come back.

[meili]

They could do a pure ess/rune ess thing with logs. It would be messy for sure. Then farmers would auto mining...then Jagex would change fishing...farmers/autoers will move on to fishing....and so on until every f2p skill is ruined.

 

 

 

:shock: That's the worst case scenario only.

[guzoliub]

more:

 

 

 

unable to drop gp,

 

unable to drop anything more valuable then Xgp (according to player value)

 

 

 

or when you drop gp or anything more valuable than Xgp they are invisible to other player

 

 

 

when you die to a monster your items will be invisible to other players. (at least gp and items more valueble than Xgp)

 

 

 

when you die to a pker - your gp will be invisible to the pker and to be consistent - items more valuable than Xgp also

 

 

 

whithout eleminating every possible way of exchanging valuable items or gp the duel arena change is pointless.

 

 

 

maybe even make valuable items (value more than X) unable to be sold to shops ...

[Ezz]

I believe this update was totally unnecesary, even though it didn't affect me. I'm really scared that they might delete almost the whole game until there aren't any real world item traders left :(

 

 

 

The simple solution to this staking problem would just to make so that only players within 10 Combat levels of each other would be able to stake...

 

 

 

I believe dropping things might leap a risk of being deleted too :ohnoes: They might change it so you have to use the destroy option for everything instead of dropping things on the ground. The only way for things to travel from player to player would be through the Grand Exchange...

 

 

 

If that happens I'd quit (no I'm not like one of those pures saying that to threaten) because then I would have lost my trust in Jagex' way of taking care of the game...

[MrSScope]

more:

 

 

 

unable to drop gp,

 

unable to drop anything more valuable then Xgp (according to player value)

 

 

 

or when you drop gp or anything more valuable than Xgp they are invisible to other player

 

 

 

when you die to a monster your items will be invisible to other players. (at least gp and items more valueble than Xgp)

 

 

 

when you die to a pker - your gp will be invisible to the pker and to be consistent - items more valuable than Xgp also

 

 

 

whithout eleminating every possible way of exchanging valuable items or gp the duel arena change is pointless.

 

 

 

maybe even make valuable items (value more than X) unable to be sold to shops ...

 

 

 

Lol they already killed staking, you wanna add pking aswell to it?

 

Doubt you'll make alot of friends with statements like this :lol:

 

There's alot more people that pk than stakers, I wouldn't want to see the day that happens..

 

 

 

I'm not much of a staker so the update barely affects me, but I agree that the logic behind is a pretty faulty.

 

It affects the (mostly) honest players way more than it hurts the rs gold sellers..

[SwreeTak]

I can agree with you a little. Sure it seems a little dumb to close down the whole Dual Arena just to reduce the autoers alternatives by one. But I think that Jagex still did the right thing. Even though there will still be loads of autos, there will be a little fewer now than before. And that's a little step in the right direction.

 

If Jage keeps going in the right direction with small steps, it will take a while, but sometime we will be able to get rid off those autos. Or that is what I believes.

[Kazuma]

I wouldn't be surprised if they just simply made yew trees in f2p areas ...p2p only. They want to auto at the trees? Force the botters to pay members then they get caught and it's potentially lost money for them.

[guzoliub]

 

Lol they already killed staking, you wanna add pking aswell to it?

 

Doubt you'll make alot of friends with statements like this :lol:

 

 

 

I didn't say I want all those things to happen.

 

 

 

I just meant that the path they took might lead us there ...

[fighterhwk]

I wouldn't be surprised if they just simply made yew trees in f2p areas ...p2p only. They want to auto at the trees? Force the botters to pay members then they get caught and it's potentially lost money for them.

 

 

 

Wouldn't the autoers just move onto something else then?

 

 

 

Also, fishing seems to also be a heavily macroed spot in f2p, just that most people don't notice as they don't pass by karamja all the time. If they remove woodcutting, then there is a chance fishing would die along with it.

[meili]

Wouldn't the autoers just move onto something else then?

 

 

 

Also, fishing seems to also be a heavily macroed spot in f2p, just that most people don't notice as they don't pass by karamja all the time. If they remove woodcutting, then there is a chance fishing would die along with it.

 

 

 

Yep. Lobs will be worth 10 gp or so raw, like willows are now. Cooking skill cape would be even more common than it already is. :roll:

[monkeyboo2]

I don't think they'll mess with skills, they'll just mess with the other ways to transfer items such as tradin and dropping. see http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?p=5425347#5425347

 

 

 

oh and i must add:

 

[epeeflecher]

:shock:

[Nom]

Lol, the date on that fake says 2006.

[InsaneChef]

I love the way they spelt their own game wrong.