TruthScape Special Reports - Dueling Tournaments - Not Ready for Prime Time

 

 

 

I have just published a review of the new dueling tournament system on my site. It's too long to duplicate here in full, but for the sake of promoting discussion here, I am including a couple of sections: the overview at the start, and the recommendations/conclusions near the end. In the full review there are several more pages that lay out all of the (many) problems with this feature.

 

 

 

Note that this article is about the new tournament system and NOT the changes to 1-on-1 dueling, so please try to keep that out of this thread; it's been discussed enough elsewhere. Thanks. ~q

 

 

 

Dueling Tournaments - A Great Idea, Poorly Implemented

 

 

 

 

The general idea behind dueling tournaments is an excellent one: it expands on the existing one-on-one duel concept to allow structured tournaments containing many players. The idea is to replicate the concept of tournaments that take place in sports like tennis or the playoffs in hockey or football, with the better players advancing to face off against each other with one eventual winner.

 

 

 

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll start here with a brief overview of the system for the benefit of those who havenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t tried it yet, and also provide a summary of the problems. IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll get into more detail on both features and issues later in the report.

 

 

 

Overview of the Tournament System

 

 

 

 

The tournaments are automatically started and run by the game about every 10 minutes, and only operate on certain worlds; these are tagged in the server list, so you can see which ones are available when you start up RuneScape. There are four different ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅregistrarsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

very well written and very correct. Some aspects of the dueling system are ridiculous, yet the idea is very good. Tourny dueling could be the next most fun mini-game up there with barrows and dagganoth kings. However, the current system is flawed.

 

 

 

I also suggest maybe instead of allowing food(which drains bank account), make health-patches or some other means of healing and potions available around the arena that can only be used in the duels.

 

 

 

Jagex clearly rushed this update, which makes me believe that there is a possibility that trading as a whole will be removed in next weeks update. It is quite possible that this game will goto hell in a handbasket in a hurry.

Another great post by Qeltar. I love this article, and completely agree with it. Good job on the website too.

I haven't actually competed in the new tournaments yet (curses Halo 3 and Bioshock and crappy internet receiver) but a friend of mine has and he was rather angry about the whole thing (not the idea but as you say the implementation). I usually defend Jagex because generally they haven't done a bad job and don't deserve the flack they get, but not this time, the tournaments need fixing and (even though its hugely unlikely) I hope they find and consider Qeltars ideas. Its odd to talk about a feature I haven't even used yet but there are obviously problems with it as it is.

 

 

 

Edit:note to self: their is not there.

There is one glaring point in your assessment. Many leagues use an almost identical system concerning points. One that I personally know is the DCI, which is the system for Magic: The Gathering Tournaments. The format is 100% identical to the system in game, and it works.

 

 

 

I agree with most of the other suggestions, and I think there should be "flights" of 8/16 people, where the winner takes half, then they square off against the winner of another flight, who takes more.

Yes, another well written post. I ESPECIALLY liked the "list what tournaments on each world" is doing where you can see how many are in the tournament area and more importantly what the tournament being offered on that world is like. Yeah, it'll encourage world hopping, but this would be a good type of world hop.

 

 

 

The parts on health determining winner, spread out of starting ranks, number of registrars, battle time, etc. has been talked about. Still need to be addressed by Jagex.

 

 

 

Other options that can be allowed:

 

 

 

Total Refresh: What you bring into the tournament refreshes between rounds. Reduces attrition battles. Not sure if the server memory can handle this but who knows.

 

 

 

Offer a title belt now and again: For high level tournaments, think of giving a "belt" or some article the winner can wear for 24 hours or longer denoting he's a king of the ring. Maybe if mixed with summoning, you get your own "entourage" of fans and reporters and runescape's version of Don King.

 

 

 

Yes, it was a rushed update but obviously it has been worked on for quite awhile to boot. So long as changes get made in reasonable time, this can be a winning update months down the road.

Well written article, as usual! In my oppinion even better than others you've written before, you know what I mean :wink: I agree with your point of view, I like the suggestions you made too. I haven't played the tournaments yet so I can't make any. I hope at least some of these suggestions will be addressed, maybe post them in the appropriate forum on RSOF as well?

 

 

 

I share the same view as you on Jagex' QA department. I think their main job is to find bugs before realeasing the new feature and usually they do ok - of course some bugs will always go through, but that cannot be avoided. I'm not sure if it's the QA or another team in charge with validating the problems you identified. Regardless of the team in charge, I agree they definitely need to be more in contact with the game and the players.

 

 

 

You spoke of the problems with the duel tournaments, but remember the assist system? It was released with assisting for woodcutting, mining, fishing too, then these features were removed as suggested by many players. Good example of Jagex listening to the players, their will to improve the game based on suggestions.. but also good example of a release not well thought. I mean, it was obvious for us, who play the game daily, from the first moment... it was not obvious for anyone at Jagex in the entire several months that passed from the start of the idea till its release?

 

 

 

Jagex' staff really needs to be more in touch with the players and the game (maybe even play it?!?). And, who knows, maybe they will in the future. Until then, what we can do is exactly what Qeltar did: praise the good parts, identify the bad, suggest improvements. In other words, we'll act as beta-testers for Jagex...

Jagex certainly "fixed" some of the problems suggested by players who actually use it and saw the problems with it. But they didn't take ALL the suggestions needed to fix it :( :shame: The best (worst? :P) example is the farming skill is STILL left in, and STILL being exploited by some of the higher levelled farmers.

 

 

 

The same will be true for this Tournament mini- game : they'll take SOME suggestions on board, and implement them, but they certainly won't take ALL of them...and those they do take, will probably end up twisted and geared towards the low-intelligence end of the community because they're the ones that whinge the loudest. The older players, the ones with 3+ years invested into thet game will sadly once again be left swinging in the wind despite having FAR MORE knowledge of the game mechanics than the developers. #-o

You guys need to get a RSS feed started for Truthscape.

Jagex certainly "fixed" some of the problems suggested by players who actually use it and saw the problems with it. But they didn't take ALL the suggestions needed to fix it :( :shame: The best (worst? :P) example is the farming skill is STILL left in, and STILL being exploited by some of the higher levelled farmers.

 

 

 

The same will be true for this Tournament mini- game : they'll take SOME suggestions on board, and implement them, but they certainly won't take ALL of them...and those they do take, will probably end up twisted and geared towards the low-intelligence end of the community because they're the ones that whinge the loudest. The older players, the ones with 3+ years invested into thet game will sadly once again be left swinging in the wind despite having FAR MORE knowledge of the game mechanics than the developers. #-o

 

It is impossible for them to please everyone. At least they recognize some valid points they didn't think of. Which is what is worrying, why don't they think of them? Are these points so subtle? I don't think so...

Thanks for all the comments...

 

 

 

texasmd91, that's a great idea. I've never done RSS so have no idea what to do but I'll research it and hopefully find a tool that will let me set up a feed.

 

 

 

~q

Congrats Q, May i call you Q? 8-)

 

 

 

Great article as always, i love to read what you think, if you could, please accept me for truthscape forums, i have already sent the register with the name of "Juansuper10".

 

 

 

I cant wait to read your report when the GE comes out =D>.

 

 

 

Juan

 

 

 

I agree with most of those things.. But the picture above explains my main problem, the world hopping thing. Anyways, very good article.

Actually the tournament you go shall be based in your combat level, not in your rank, for example:

 

 

 

Tourn 1: 3-18

 

Tourn 2: 18-33

 

Tourn 3: 33-48

 

Tourn 4: 48-63

 

Tourn 5: 63-78

 

Tourn 6: 78-93

 

Tourn 7: 93-108

 

Tourn 8: 108-120

 

Tourn 9: 120+

Ah, give them a break! They are working on summoning with fury! I doubt 5% of jagex's resources went into this! Now when summonig comes out, TEAR IT APART!

 

 

 

On the other hand, I agree with you about everything, although the money spliting thing, it would be difficult to create and manage.

Actually the tournament you go shall be based in your combat level, not in your rank, for example:

 

 

 

Tourn 1: 3-18

 

Tourn 2: 18-33

 

Tourn 3: 33-48

 

Tourn 4: 48-63

 

Tourn 5: 63-78

 

Tourn 6: 78-93

 

Tourn 7: 93-108

 

Tourn 8: 108-120

 

Tourn 9: 120+

 

 

 

The issue here was that pures are somewhat exempt from this system. Okay, perhaps not exempt, but they don't completely follow the trend. The Tournament ranking was to evaluate success and ability of the player, not the character.

 

 

 

I agree with all of your suggestions Qeltar, apart from bringing in the combat level system into this mess. It's not a completely accurate representation of the character's actual ability, because the human behind that character may know a few more tricks in combat. I think that the combat level only does truly evaluate is a character's general ability in the situation where they must be versatile in using all methods or combat. Since the rules do not change between rounds, it doesn't necessarily apply here, whereas in the wilderness, you had to deal in all types of combat.

The issue here was that pures are somewhat exempt from this system. Okay, perhaps not exempt, but they don't completely follow the trend. The Tournament ranking was to evaluate success and ability of the player, not the character.

 

 

 

Actually there is no problem with that since in the actual torunaments pures also play, the change would be for good, not for bad, actually the one that sint a pure fighting against a pure could just use prayer or something, pures are normal players, if their strategy is that then players shall find a way to beat them, not to stop fixing tings because of them.

 

 

 

Also a lvl 70 might have luck and win some fights and then have to face lvl 115s because he has same rank, i think thats unfair.

The issue here was that pures are somewhat exempt from this system. Okay, perhaps not exempt, but they don't completely follow the trend. The Tournament ranking was to evaluate success and ability of the player, not the character.

 

 

 

This just goes to show how much Jagex hates pures (and where the true intentions of this update lie). Jagex is willing to take away the trump card of pures... their combat level.

 

 

 

Also a lvl 70 might have luck and win some fights and then have to face lvl 115s because he has same rank, i think thats unfair.

 

 

 

This was also addressed in the article. In my point of view, however, we haven't let the system mature enough to see dueling ratings spread out yet (eventually there could be 3000+ rated players, and possibly 1000- rated players). Hence, it is hard to make a definite conclusion about the rating system.

 

 

 

As to your bringing up luck, well... more than half of RS combat system is luck-based :-w

There is one glaring point in your assessment. Many leagues use an almost identical system concerning points. One that I personally know is the DCI, which is the system for Magic: The Gathering Tournaments. The format is 100% identical to the system in game, and it works.

 

 

 

 

Are you talking about the ranking system?

 

 

 

If so, I think the difference here is that with a MtG tournament system your ranking changes only slowly, where here it can change very fast.

For those interested, I just updated the article with a few screenshots I couldn't post yesterday. This is perhaps one of the more telling ones...

 

 

 

For those interested, I just updated the article with a few screenshots I couldn't post yesterday. This is perhaps one of the more telling ones...

 

 

 

 

 

 

That happens in almost any rated system. I'm a member of USCF (Chess Federation), and I often deflate my rating to be able to compete in certain tournaments... it's let me win several tournaments and even 19th in U1500 nationally.

 

 

 

As for the RS tourneys, I alternate between the 1700-1850 sections and 1850+ sections. At one point I was above 1900, but found it impossible to win (I'm not maxed, plus I have low range and mage). By alternating between the lower sections, I have managed to win a couple competitions.

Wow, very interesting read, and well put together. The one thing i read that follows through is the unfairly matched fights just due to the same ranks of players. Of course the lv 120+ are having a blast, easily owing each round (most of the time, ive seen 120s beat by 100s) but i have won maybe 3 matches, and never come close to a tournament win. I always get matched up with a lv 115 or higher and im only 102, so i usually lose anyways, but the other thing that really ticks me off is the times. If you lose the first round, you will have to wait up to 10 min for the next round, and you cant leave the tournament area, buy anything or do much of anything down there while waiting. I mean honestly, no one really needs 10 min to wait for another tournament. That means if you probably won't win a round, your going to be spending a good portion, up to 70%, of your time just sitting there waiting for another tournament, not to mention long waitings between rounds when it is something like armor+food allowed rules. You could hardly be fighting at all during your stay in the tournament area. Usually i like combat-orientated mini games, but the tournaments just have too many problems for them to be truly enjoyable. I'd rather spend my free time playing CW and gaining tickets for my full gold CW armor than sitting around doing basically nothing, and usually losing each round due to a very unbalanced match-up.

.. the problems persist.

 

 

 

The 3k cap was not raised.

 

 

 

Jagex put out a half-hearted update to tournaments, which still have dozens of problems, ranging from empty worlds with no tournaments running to an idiotic tie-breaker system.