Irony at its Finest

[quitthegame]

Huh? Why can't the average Joe "afford" to sell it as cheap? Have they started charging rent in this game or something?

 

 

 

If you're going to interpret what I say literally, by all means go ahead; make an [wagon] of yourself.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure calling people [wagon] is much more assish than interpreting what you say literally. Especially because I'm right, and you are not.

 

 

 

What I mean should be fairly clear: Goldfarming firms have the ability to get lots of goods in short amounts of time. They can undercut the average Joe's prices simply because of raw bulk; for every gold they lose by cutting their prices by one, they already have ten more in goods seconds later to make up for it.

 

 

 

This is absolute nonsense. Anyone can undercut anyone else's prices. Wanna know how? It's a nice little trick I call "lowering your price". Just because the goldfarming firm has more goods coming in than one trader, doesn't mean that they can charge less per log. I can charge .0001 per log. If you're talking about what we're willing to sell at, well we both want to get as much as possible for each log, no matter how many we have coming in. Your point is so incoherent that it doesn't deserve to be called a point, which is why you spray out insults much faster than you summon up ideas.

[BBC3]

I think this is all part of a master plan to get rid of real world item trading, which would stop all the bots at the same time.

 

 

 

Right now, all they have to do is limit person to person trading to 3k every 15 minutes. Now, there will be absolutely NO way for people to to do some real world item trading.

 

 

 

I'm guessing this is why they added loot share, eh? To allow friends (who aren't around the same level) to be able to somewhat evenly distribute the loot since they wouldn't be able to share drops 50\50.

 

 

 

There's a few other things, but I haven't the will to type them. Call me lazy if you want. :P

 

 

 

Wow...I never viewed it like this, and i beleive this is one of the most valid points I've seen.

 

 

 

Gratz on putting the pieces together, but boy do i hope your wrong...

 

 

 

Thanks. I forgot to mention (not the lazy part), that they would also have to make it so items that you drop no longer appear to other players. There. Pretty sure that would fill in all the possible leaks.

 

 

 

then remove the wilderness since they will all be using lvl 3 accounts and can kill each other in a matter of seconds.

 

 

 

then we can remove all the skills and then the game and have everyone play mechscape then remove that because autoer will go there.

[willysp]

edit: Cant quote for beans...... delete

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

What I mean should be fairly clear: Goldfarming firms have the ability to get lots of goods in short amounts of time. They can undercut the average Joe's prices simply because of raw bulk; for every gold they lose by cutting their prices by one, they already have ten more in goods seconds later to make up for it.

 

 

 

This is absolute nonsense. Anyone can undercut anyone else's prices. Wanna know how? It's a nice little trick I call "lowering your price". Just because the goldfarming firm has more goods coming in than one trader, doesn't mean that they can charge less per log. I can charge .0001 per log. If you're talking about what we're willing to sell at, well we both want to get as much as possible for each log, no matter how many we have coming in. Your point is so incoherent that it doesn't deserve to be called a point, which is why you spray out insults much faster than you summon up ideas.

 

 

 

Yes, I am talking about the price we're willing to sell at. Yes, both parties do want a maximum profit. But the point is that a goldfarmer who lowers his prices has lost little in comparison to Joe, who put personal time into getting his goods; he may still sell his items, but if he gets peanuts for his effort and has to spend a longer amount of time just to get his goods sold in the first place, he has to ask himself if he's going to try again, and most likely the answer is no. And yes, numbers do matter. A goldfarming firm can easily fill the demand of the hungriest steel smiths, while Joe offers a drop in the bucket for a higher price. No contest.

 

 

 

Huh? Why can't the average Joe "afford" to sell it as cheap? Have they started charging rent in this game or something?

 

 

 

If you're going to interpret what I say literally, by all means go ahead; make an [wagon] of yourself.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure calling people [wagon] is much more assish than interpreting what you say literally. Especially because I'm right, and you are not.

 

 

 

Did I call you an [wagon]? No. You took the bait. If you want to play this game, though, I will be forced to start throwing irrelevant Willy Wonka quotes at you.

[Macmaster92]

I am truely sorry but I for one am getting sick to death of all this bashing of the G.E. I guess i shouldn't be surprised this sort of thing always happens when Jagex releases an update. Everyone drools over the update and can't wait for it to come out. Oh but wait! If the update is not perfectly sculpted around every little thing or if there is even one little catch suddenly Jagex turns into the idiots of the year.

 

 

 

 

 

1st: give the G.E. a chance

 

 

 

2nd: Do you really think, i mean do you REALLY think that Jagex would do something SO stupid as to release something that greatly effects the game to NOT have an advanced gold farmer detection system!?

 

 

 

Jagex can do more to track autoers then you think, yes i know the autoers in ftp are horrible but there is nothing they can do to stop someone from creating hundreds of accounts, but you see they have a way of tracking the gp and where it goes.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad i got that off my chest.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

I am truely sorry but I for one am getting sick to death of all this bashing of the G.E. I guess i shouldn't be surprised this sort of thing always happens when Jagex releases an update. Everyone drools over the update and can't wait for it to come out. Oh but wait! If the update is not perfectly sculpted around every little thing or if there is even one little catch suddenly Jagex turns into the idiots of the year.

 

 

 

Ok.

 

 

 

1st: give the G.E. a chance

 

 

 

I am. I think it's great. But I had to rant about the irony in it.

 

 

 

2nd: Do you really think, i mean do you REALLY think that Jagex would do something SO stupid as to release something that greatly effects the game to NOT have an advanced gold farmer detection system!?

 

 

 

No, I haven't a doubt that Jagex has something implemented, but it's important to discern between "Advanced" and "Effective."

 

 

 

Jagex can do more to track autoers then you think, yes i know the autoers in ftp are horrible but there is nothing they can do to stop someone from creating hundreds of accounts, but you see they have a way of tracking the gp and where it goes.

 

 

 

After years of experience battling with macroers, Jagex still allows the creation of accounts with a basic name followed by a sequence of numbers in rapid succession. That smacks to me of either deliberate negligence or incompetence. Track gold all you want, but if Jagex isn't willing to monitor something as basic as account generation with remarkably similar names, they have no right to be talking about stopping goldfarming "at the source."

 

 

 

Let's not forget that "goldfarmer" does not necessarily mean "bot." Many goldfarmers are actual people working for firms. In these instances, it is nigh impossible to track sales individual farmers make. By the time you find them and lock their accounts, they've already given the gold to their supervisor.

 

 

 

Just today I saw one of their "trading trails." Level 3s, no ranked stats, wordlessly trading between themselves, banking, and logging out. Even if it were trackable, this approach clearly works as I have seen it used countless times before at Edgeville banks in desolate worlds.

[Iamdan]

As already mentioned you don't know what is going on behind the scenes.

 

 

 

Jagex already monitors trades by auto flagging and investigating trades that are 1 sided by a certain amount.

 

 

 

Jagex most probably does the same thing for large numbers of raw materials. Maybe they flag a large amount of raw materials put up by someone leveled 3-15. I wouldn't know the exact method, but I am sure they have put more thought into it than you or I have, it is their job after all.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

As already mentioned you don't know what is going on behind the scenes.

 

 

 

Jagex already monitors trades by auto flagging and investigating trades that are 1 sided by a certain amount.

 

 

 

The problem is there is no longer a need for trades of large amounts of resources to a single account for sales; the peons that harvest the resources are now themselves the sellers, and there is no need for the gold to be pooled and traded until it must be sold.

 

 

 

If I remember right, one of your solutions to this particular problem was to instantly ban rather than flag the offender once this sort of trade does finally appear, which I agree with.

 

 

 

Jagex most probably does the same thing for large numbers of raw materials. Maybe they flag a large amount of raw materials put up by someone leveled 3-15. I wouldn't know the exact method, but I am sure they have put more thought into it than you or I have, it is their job after all.

 

 

 

Farmers could, say, cut a couple hundred yews, which is reasonable for normal players, then return to woodcutting while waiting for the sale. They don't HAVE to amass huge numbers anymore. Is there any reasonable way you can think of that would distinguish a pure woodcutter from a wc goldfarmer when it comes to sales at the GE?

[Dravenstormn]

This is actually a better way for them to find out who is doing this "gold farming". People would normally post on a forum and say "Hey I am selling 10k gold ore" and there is no way to really grab who it is and stop it. They post here on one name , and when a person wants to buy they give them another name that has the items. Which will force them to stop autoing and go make a sale. now they will put the ores into the GE and with such high ammounts Jagex can look into the situation further. I am sure they have some type of notice system in effect if too much of 1 item goes into the GE.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

This is actually a better way for them to find out who is doing this "gold farming". People would normally post on a forum and say "Hey I am selling 10k gold ore" and there is no way to really grab who it is and stop it. They post here on one name , and when a person wants to buy they give them another name that has the items. Which will force them to stop autoing and go make a sale. now they will put the ores into the GE and with such high ammounts Jagex can look into the situation further. I am sure they have some type of notice system in effect if too much of 1 item goes into the GE.

 

 

 

But here's the problem: One person doesn't have to do the selling now. Every goldfarmer can now go to the GE and post their goods. Instead of one account selling a hundred thousand yews, you now have a thousand accounts selling a hundred yews. See what I'm saying? They don't even have to do it at the same time.

[Dravenstormn]

now you see this is where the detection comes in. The system takes notice of a lvl 3 or even a lvl 50 selling 100 yew logs , they have a record of it and can look into it a little deeper. Where did this person who can't cut yew logs get them from? lvl 3 WC billy got 5k yew logs from lvl 90 WC bob , now bob is already selling 3k yew logs , why is he giving billy those logs to sell? Hmm look into it ... BUSTED both accounts gone

[Irool]

 

 

 

After years of experience battling with macroers, Jagex still allows the creation of accounts with a basic name followed by a sequence of numbers in rapid succession. That smacks to me of either deliberate negligence or incompetence. Track gold all you want, but if Jagex isn't willing to monitor something as basic as account generation with remarkably similar names, they have no right to be talking about stopping goldfarming "at the source."

 

 

 

you're really grasping at straws here.

 

 

 

if they stopped this, then all a macroer would have to do is create a text file with unrelatable names and pull from that while creating accounts.

 

 

 

seriously, what person would NOT be able to avoid this security you're proposing. What good would it do? If you think detecting "remarkably similar names" is an amazing security feature, show me all the other enterprises implementing this, please. Show me some evidence this is an amazing idea. (an article from a reputable source will suffice)

 

 

 

how would preventing "remarkably similar names" be any kind of reasonable solution or long term fix toward the macroing problem.

 

 

 

(how would it even be implemented from a programmer's point of view? How do you discern "remarkably similar) I'll just come out and say what I've been trying to this whole post : It's a horrible idea.

 

 

 

"willing to monitor something as basic as account generation with remarkably similar names, they have no right to be talking about stopping goldfarming "at the source."

 

 

 

who are you? jagex owns runescape. You have no right to be telling them what to do. Take your crappy idea and implement it in your own game.

 

 

 

And I love how the whole time you're writing these posts you're assuming that jagex' back end detection system is awful, despite the fact that this update was put out by a company worth >300m $, and the entire purpose of it is to facilitate the back end :roll:

 

 

 

 

Farmers could, say, cut a couple hundred yews, which is reasonable for normal players, then return to woodcutting while waiting for the sale. They don't HAVE to amass huge numbers anymore. Is there any reasonable way you can think of that would distinguish a pure woodcutter from a wc goldfarmer when it comes to sales at the GE?

 

 

 

One pure woodcutter selling items at GE, One macroer selling items at GE

 

 

 

flag both of their accounts for investigation.

 

 

 

Ban one.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

 

 

 

After years of experience battling with macroers, Jagex still allows the creation of accounts with a basic name followed by a sequence of numbers in rapid succession. That smacks to me of either deliberate negligence or incompetence. Track gold all you want, but if Jagex isn't willing to monitor something as basic as account generation with remarkably similar names, they have no right to be talking about stopping goldfarming "at the source."

 

 

 

you're really grasping at straws here.

 

 

 

if they stopped this, then all a macroer would have to do is create a text file with unrelatable names and pull from that while creating accounts.

 

 

 

seriously, what person would NOT be able to avoid this security you're proposing. What good would it do?

 

 

 

how would preventing "remarkably similar names" be any kind of reasonable solution or long term fix for macroing?

 

 

 

I didn't say this was a long-term fix. It's simply a pattern that continues to be exploited, and it is entirely unnecessary that this should be so! If it slows them down and doesn't harm the legit players, then do it, for God's sake, and keep people from having to generate accounts with ridiculous numbers attached to them.

 

 

 

And I love how the whole time you're writing these posts you're assuming that jagex' back end detection system is awful, despite the fact that this update was put out by a company worth >300m $, and the entire purpose of it is to facilitate the back end :roll:

 

 

 

Yes, I am wrong to assume that their detection system is awful. I based that assumption entirely on my frustration with seeing bots and farmers day in and day out. Dumb. On the other hand, it is equally unsound to assume that a problem goes away because money is thrown at it... And has it gone away? Has it?

 

 

 

"willing to monitor something as basic as account generation with remarkably similar names, they have no right to be talking about stopping goldfarming "at the source."

 

 

 

who are you? jagex owns runescape. You have no right to be telling them what to do. Take your crappy idea and implement it in your own game.

 

 

 

Of course I don't have a right to tell them what to do. I do, however, have a right to complain when I as the consumer am promised something to my satisfaction and do not receive it, or if I do receive it, but it comes at great cost to myself or others. I would in truth be happier if JaGeX just came out and said that this is too big a problem for them to handle as things stand and handed some of the reins to players for once (not me, before you say anything).

 

 

 

Offhand, if I made or helped to make a game... It wouldn't be an MMO.

 

 

 

 

Farmers could, say, cut a couple hundred yews, which is reasonable for normal players, then return to woodcutting while waiting for the sale. They don't HAVE to amass huge numbers anymore. Is there any reasonable way you can think of that would distinguish a pure woodcutter from a wc goldfarmer when it comes to sales at the GE?

 

 

 

One pure woodcutter selling items at GE, One macroer selling items at GE

 

 

 

flag both of their accounts for investigation.

 

 

 

Ban one.

 

 

 

A little iffier. We're not dealing with small numbers of accounts.

[MrSScope]

To the OP: Learn to control your temper mate, having a go at people with other opinions doesn't make you look good.

 

 

 

Heck, why is noone ever happy?

 

Let's look at the past 2 updates:

 

 

 

Nerf of the duel arena/staking:

 

Good against bots/gold farmers as they have 1 less way to transfer gold.

 

Bad for a bunch of players as they can't stake and make money anymore.

 

A heckload of complaints, because most people feel our personal enjoyment is more important than fighting bots/gold farmers. (I agree to that)

 

 

 

Grand Exchange:

 

Bad against bots/gold farmers as they can sell their goods easily.

 

Good for most players (including me) as it's yet another (quite easy) way to buy/sell items.

 

More complaints because now suddenly fighting bots/gold farmers is more important than what players think.

 

 

 

Is it just me or are people never happy?

 

I'm sure Jagex do their best to satisfy both sides, making both the players happy and trying to eliminate real world trading, though I don't know why the staking update was so harsh.

 

 

 

I'll probably get flamed for this post, well give it your best, as long as you can keep it cool.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

To the OP: Learn to control your temper mate, having a go at people with other opinions doesn't make you look good.

 

 

 

It's fine when they have other opinions, provided they actually took the time to look over and reasonably rebuke some of the (occasionally ridiculous) things I say, as several posters have done. There are some, however, who do not. That's frustrating.

 

 

 

Heck, why is noone ever happy?

 

Let's look at the past 2 updates:

 

 

 

Nerf of the duel arena/staking:

 

Good against bots/gold farmers as they have 1 less way to transfer gold.

 

Bad for a bunch of players as they can't stake and make money anymore.

 

A heckload of complaints, because most people feel our personal enjoyment is more important than fighting bots/gold farmers. (I agree to that)

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Grand Exchange:

 

Bad against bots/gold farmers as they can sell their goods easily.

 

Good for most players (including me) as it's yet another (quite easy) way to buy/sell items.

 

More complaints because now suddenly fighting bots/gold farmers is more important than what players think.

 

 

 

Just to clear this up: I love the Grand Exchange. I have my steel bars and natures and gold bars bought and my runite sold and my necklaces alched and... Yeah, it's great! I love it! But I'd like some kind of disclosure here. What is Jagex doing? And does it hurt to be aware of the possibilities that an update of this magnitude brings? Junk food for thought.

 

 

 

Is it just me or are people never happy?

 

 

 

I mumble a lot at times, but this is one of those rare occasions where I really am concerned about this sort of thing.

 

 

 

I'm sure Jagex do their best to satisfy both sides, making both the players happy and trying to eliminate real world trading, though I don't know why the staking update was so harsh.

 

 

 

I'll probably get flamed for this post, well give it your best, as long as you can keep it cool.

 

 

 

Entirely inoffensive.

[Irool]

On the other hand, it is equally unsound to assume that a problem goes away because money is thrown at it... And has it gone away? Has it?

 

 

 

Your definition of "throwing money" is "a company who uses its time, and it's employees time, to work toward a reasonable solution to a problem"? The 300m$ figure was thrown out only to point out that you should be careful when you're criticizing an enormous software company (software company definition : a company that survives on creating solutions to problems :D )

 

 

 

"A little iffier. We're not dealing with small numbers of accounts."

 

 

 

If they chose to implement a flag/investigate system like what I described, that's a problem for jagex to worry about and we really can't speculate as to whether or not it can be effective based on the scale of the game. (obviously the old system doesn't work, it's an artifact from runescape classic implemented when the game had 10k players online max)

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

On the other hand, it is equally unsound to assume that a problem goes away because money is thrown at it... And has it gone away? Has it?

 

 

 

Your definition of "throwing money" is "a company who uses its time, and it's employees time, to work toward a reasonable solution to a problem"? The 300m$ figure was thrown out only to point out that you should be careful when you're criticizing an enormous software company (software company definition : a company that survives on creating solutions to problems :D )

 

 

 

I'm being entirely careless because I got owned. Fine.

 

 

 

I remain curious in regard to your last point, though: What if the problem is paying you? Goldfarmers do have p2p accounts; is there really an incentive to do anything about them? I don't know of anyone who would quit rs just because of goldfarmers.

 

 

 

"A little iffier. We're not dealing with small numbers of accounts."

 

 

 

If they chose to implement a flag/investigate system like what I described, that's a problem for jagex to worry about and we really can't speculate as to whether or not it can be effective based on the scale of the game. (obviously the old system doesn't work, it's an artifact from runescape classic implemented when the game had 10k players online max)

 

 

 

According to Wiki (unfortunately no other sources), Jagex has around 400 employees; if there were some kind of investigator, it would likely have to be automated.

[123neopet]

If I remember right, one of your solutions to this particular problem was to instantly ban rather than flag the offender once this sort of trade does finally appear, which I agree with.

 

 

 

Wait, so you agree for the banning of all people engaged in largely one-sided trades?

 

 

 

 

 

In that case me & a lot of my friends would all be banned for letting each other borrow stuff.

[quitthegame]

 

 

 

Yes, I am talking about the price we're willing to sell at. Yes, both parties do want a maximum profit. But the point is that a goldfarmer who lowers his prices has lost little in comparison to Joe, who put personal time into getting his goods; he may still sell his items, but if he gets peanuts for his effort and has to spend a longer amount of time just to get his goods sold in the first place, he has to ask himself if he's going to try again, and most likely the answer is no. And yes, numbers do matter. A goldfarming firm can easily fill the demand of the hungriest steel smiths, while Joe offers a drop in the bucket for a higher price. No contest.

 

 

 

You can keep saying that "Joe" offers for a higher price over and over, but that doesn't make it true. Joe is just as free to offer as a lower price as the goldfarming firm is. The logical structure of the argument above boils down to "Joe offers at a higher price, because the goldfarming company offers more cheaply, because Joe has to offer at a higher price." Pssst, you may not have realized this, but that's circular logic. That means it's wrong. Not to mention, your paragraph above has nothing whatsoever to do with the Grand Exchange, if it were true it would have applied since the invention of runescape.

 

 

 

Did I call you an [wagon]? No. You took the bait. If you want to play this game, though, I will be forced to start throwing irrelevant Willy Wonka quotes at you.

 

 

 

Actually you did call me an [wagon]. More accurately, you created a logical statement of the form "If X, than go ahead make an [wagon] out of yourself", where X was obviously something you were claiming was true. Anyways, someone calling me an [wagon] just because I point out a logical insufficiency in their argument isn't something I consider a game, and I couldn't care less about you quoting Willy Wonka.

[Severation]

JaGeX destroyed staking in the name of preventing real world traders from selling their ill-gotten goods. Yet, with the inception of the Grand Exchange, JaGeX has suddenly provided the goldfarming business with a convenient means of selling massive amounts of items quickly and anonymously, for less than the average Joe can afford to sell. A lack of foresight? Spite? Or just sheer idiocy? You decide.

 

 

 

Just because the sales are anonymous to you, that doesn't mean that they are anonymous to Jagex. :-$

 

 

 

So why can't they just ban them straight away?

[SwreeTak]

I don't think that the GE will become a perfect auto place.

[the_tallest1]

If you don't want to read my posts, then stop leaving snarky replies. I've already explained why that was a valid point.

 

 

 

Way to divert, your claim it's anonymous isn't true. That aside.

 

 

 

We're not obtuse, we get what your point is. Everyone who's disagreeing with you just thinks you're completely wrong. So gold farmers can now sell smaller quantities from multiple accounts because they couldn't do that before... :-s

 

 

 

Everyone really needs to stop complaining about how gold farmers can abuse this and how many other ways still exist. Doing this only fuels the fire. Jagex won't be stopping here I have the feeling. So how badly do goldfarmers affect your gameplay on a day to day level? I'd say that stakers were affected far more by the duel arena changes than they ever were by goldfarmers. I'll be far more affected by them continually removing aspects of the game (like 1 to 1 trading) than I currently am by goldfarmers.

 

 

 

So yeah, let's complain some more about them so we can enjoy the game completely devoid of goldfarming... and also devoid of any enjoyment. It's always the case: perceived safety > freedom/enjoyment.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

Yes, I am talking about the price we're willing to sell at. Yes, both parties do want a maximum profit. But the point is that a goldfarmer who lowers his prices has lost little in comparison to Joe, who put personal time into getting his goods; he may still sell his items, but if he gets peanuts for his effort and has to spend a longer amount of time just to get his goods sold in the first place, he has to ask himself if he's going to try again, and most likely the answer is no. And yes, numbers do matter. A goldfarming firm can easily fill the demand of the hungriest steel smiths, while Joe offers a drop in the bucket for a higher price. No contest.

 

 

 

You can keep saying that "Joe" offers for a higher price over and over, but that doesn't make it true. Joe is just as free to offer as a lower price as the goldfarming firm is. The logical structure of the argument above boils down to "Joe offers at a higher price, because the goldfarming company offers more cheaply, because Joe has to offer at a higher price." Pssst, you may not have realized this, but that's circular logic. That means it's wrong. Not to mention, your paragraph above has nothing whatsoever to do with the Grand Exchange, if it were true it would have applied since the invention of runescape.

 

 

 

It's more along the lines of "Joe offers at a higher price because he wants to; goldfarming company lowers to sell faster; Joe lowers his price, cycle continues, Joe might sell but gives up sooner or later." I think that makes sense, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

Let's assume for the sake of argument that I am wrong; that Joe is willing lower his prices indefinitely outside of the Grand Exchange, will eventually sell his goods for a price to his satisfaction, and will then continue to accumulate those resources. Of course that happens (people still mine rune essence), but with the Grand Exchange neither party any longer gains any advantage once they lower their price to a certain level. But who has the numbers now? And who sells first? Regardless of whether it's the person selling the most or the fewest items of a given variety, Joe has been trumped either way. I don't think I need to explain how.

 

 

 

Keep in mind that a goldfarmer wants gold; waiting another day or two for a little extra profit is not preferable to simply going and accumulating more resources. Accumulating as much gold as possible in the shortest period of time is the prime directive.

 

 

 

Did I call you an [wagon]? No. You took the bait. If you want to play this game, though, I will be forced to start throwing irrelevant Willy Wonka quotes at you.

 

 

 

Actually you did call me an [wagon]. More accurately, you created a logical statement of the form "If X, than go ahead make an [wagon] out of yourself", where X was obviously something you were claiming was true. Anyways, someone calling me an [wagon] just because I point out a logical insufficiency in their argument isn't something I consider a game, and I couldn't care less about you quoting Willy Wonka.

 

 

 

Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if - and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy - "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera..."Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera..."Memo bis punitor delicatum!" It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks. You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Way to divert, your claim it's anonymous isn't true. That aside.

 

 

 

We're not obtuse, we get what your point is. Everyone who's disagreeing with you just thinks you're completely wrong. So gold farmers can now sell smaller quantities from multiple accounts because they couldn't do that before... Eh?

 

 

 

For all practical intents and purposes, it is anonymous. I cannot tell who I am buying from, for one thing. For another, I think it unlikely that Jagex will have the time or resources to investigate every GE sale of goldfarmed resources now that they can seamlessly blend into a sea of legit sellers.

 

 

 

They could do it before, but now they can do it instantly and with much smaller quantities of resources. I think you can agree that it is more difficult to sell 300 yew logs for the same price as 30000 yew logs without the GE. This is of course drawing from my own personal experience of cutting yews for money, then attempting to sell in a market world: fletchers and the like wanted huge numbers of logs, not a few hundred, and even those selling for a slightly higher price sold theirs first because they had a much larger number.

 

 

 

If goldfarmers do see the GE as this sort of opportunity and Jagex has anticipated this, we may very well be looking at the greatest scheme to catch and destroy them in the history of the game. Time will tell.

 

 

 

Everyone really needs to stop complaining about how gold farmers can abuse this and how many other ways still exist. Doing this only fuels the fire. Jagex won't be stopping here I have the feeling. So how badly do goldfarmers affect your gameplay on a day to day level? I'd say that stakers were affected far more by the duel arena changes than they ever were by goldfarmers. I'll be far more affected by them continually removing aspects of the game (like 1 to 1 trading) than I currently am by goldfarmers.

 

 

 

So yeah, let's complain some more about them so we can enjoy the game completely devoid of goldfarming... and also devoid of any enjoyment. It's always the case: perceived safety > freedom/enjoyment.

 

 

 

Goldfarmers are actually quite beneficial to my PKing hybrid account, who slays them for rune ore. That aside, they choke woodcutters, coal miners, essence miners, rune miners, lobster fishermen, runecrafters, and numerous other folks who skill for money.

 

 

 

I don't support drastic measures to stop goldfarmers if it comes at a cost to us, but nor do I support the implementation of something so exploitable as this unless there is some clear indication that the problem has been either considered or dealt with.

[Cheezy_Power]

 

 

 

I think this is all part of a master plan to get rid of real world item trading, which would stop all the bots at the same time.

 

 

 

Right now, all they have to do is limit person to person trading to 3k every 15 minutes. Now, there will be absolutely NO way for people to to do some real world item trading.

 

 

 

I'm guessing this is why they added loot share, eh? To allow friends (who aren't around the same level) to be able to somewhat evenly distribute the loot since they wouldn't be able to share drops 50\50.

 

 

 

There's a few other things, but I haven't the will to type them. Call me lazy if you want. :P

 

 

 

Wow...I never viewed it like this, and i beleive this is one of the most valid points I've seen.

 

 

 

Gratz on putting the pieces together, but boy do i hope your wrong...

 

 

 

It would be a valid point, except that he still forgot that you can arrange a private PK to transfer money. If JaGeX limits Wilderness kills to 3k every 15 minutes, people WILL leave in droves.

 

 

 

It wouldn't be the best method possible, which would greatly reduce the amount of gold buyers due to the fact that they might get pked with the money after they get it.

 

 

 

However; they could give the wilderness a max level deferential of about 3. This would make it much harder for the player to buy their gold in that method as well. Yes, it would ruin mage bank pking, but if they ruined high-staking, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate too much to remove that. Especially since the grand majority of fights in the wild happen to be in lower level wilderness any way.

[Iamdan]

 

If I remember right, one of your solutions to this particular problem was to instantly ban rather than flag the offender once this sort of trade does finally appear, which I agree with.

 

 

 

Not quite. JageX rewrote their game engine and the main difference I could see in the client afterwards was a new reflection system, so JageX can detect client edited macros (the most used one) on login, my suggestion was to ban instead of flag because they are breaking the rules just by logging in with an edited client.

 

 

 

Farmers could, say, cut a couple hundred yews, which is reasonable for normal players, then return to woodcutting while waiting for the sale. They don't HAVE to amass huge numbers anymore. Is there any reasonable way you can think of that would distinguish a pure woodcutter from a wc goldfarmer when it comes to sales at the GE?

 

 

 

However, the gold must leave the account at some point. Even if they don't pool the money together, the gold will leave the account when they sell it. Because you can't buy or sell anything outside a 10% leeway of the market price, the people selling the gold will have to trade it with the original trade system. After the GE update, there will be a drastic decrease in regular trades, this makes monitoring much easier, and allows more methods of monitoring that wouldn't work before because of so many trades.

 

 

 

Since the regular trade system may be monitored much easier, when the gold is traded to the buyer, that is when Jagex will strike with their ban stick.

 

 

 

(I'm just speculating but it is very possible that was the plan)