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#41
death666bl00ms
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Stone a woman for not being a virgin?

Deut. 22:13-21



"If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ 15 then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you," (Deut. 22:13).



Critics of the Bible must be careful not to impose their present day moral system upon that of an ancient culture found in Scripture and then judge Scripture as though it is inferior to their own subjective morality. The above verses were written 3000 years ago in a very different culture and location. Sexual purity was very highly valued, unlike today, and when a man would marry a woman, her virginity was critical. In ancient times a dowry was paid to the father of the bride and the rightful expectation was that the bride would be a virgin.

In the culture of the time it was the father who was charged with the covering, care, and well-being of his daughter. Her sexual purity was was representative of the fathers ability to raise her according to the laws God. Therefore, in that culture, a man's reputation, as well as the family's reputation in the community, could be adversely affected by the fornication of his daughter. If his daughter had been promised to a man to be married, and a dowry had been paid, there was every expectation from the bridegroom that she would be a virgin. If the contrary was discovered after the marriage, then the implication is that there had been a deception in which the father could be implicated, or it would mean that he was unaware of her sin and this would bring great shame the family and the community, not to mention it being a display of outright rebellion against God's law. In this case, to insure the integrity of the family, and to remove the evil of adulterous/fornication from the community, stoning was advocated.

Finally, she was not stoned for not being a virgin, but for carrying out a deception in trying to appear as one.





http://www.carm.org/diff/Deut22_13.htm
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

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#42
warri0r45
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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?



What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?



~Joe.




Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:


Why not.

#43
Joes_So_Cool
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Wow you can copy and paste from an internet site, congratulations, "ace".



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#44
death666bl00ms
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I just did?



~Joe.




Yes sir. I was referring to the apostle's lack of faith in the N.T. Your brought up stoning, which was punishment prior to the 10 commandments, in the O.T. This was PRIOR TO MOSES' COMING DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN WITH THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

-Genghis Khan

#45
death666bl00ms
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Wow you can copy and paste from an internet site, congratulations, "ace".



~Joe.




Considering you have yet to come up with a counter argument, and you made up your own false little definition of a word, I don't think you have much room to talk.
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

-Genghis Khan

#46
Joes_So_Cool
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Dictionary.com



That's my reference.



Notice Dictionary?



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#47
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Obvious troll is obvious.....
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#48
death666bl00ms
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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?



What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?



~Joe.




Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:


Why not.




You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

-Genghis Khan

#49
warri0r45
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Stone a woman for not being a virgin?

Deut. 22:13-21



"If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ 15 then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you," (Deut. 22:13).



Critics of the Bible must be careful not to impose their present day moral system upon that of an ancient culture found in Scripture and then judge Scripture as though it is inferior to their own subjective morality. The above verses were written 3000 years ago in a very different culture and location. Sexual purity was very highly valued, unlike today, and when a man would marry a woman, her virginity was critical. In ancient times a dowry was paid to the father of the bride and the rightful expectation was that the bride would be a virgin.

In the culture of the time it was the father who was charged with the covering, care, and well-being of his daughter. Her sexual purity was was representative of the fathers ability to raise her according to the laws God. Therefore, in that culture, a man's reputation, as well as the family's reputation in the community, could be adversely affected by the fornication of his daughter. If his daughter had been promised to a man to be married, and a dowry had been paid, there was every expectation from the bridegroom that she would be a virgin. If the contrary was discovered after the marriage, then the implication is that there had been a deception in which the father could be implicated, or it would mean that he was unaware of her sin and this would bring great shame the family and the community, not to mention it being a display of outright rebellion against God's law. In this case, to insure the integrity of the family, and to remove the evil of adulterous/fornication from the community, stoning was advocated.

Finally, she was not stoned for not being a virgin, but for carrying out a deception in trying to appear as one.





http://www.carm.org/diff/Deut22_13.htm




So the upshot is we pick and choose the bits that corroborate with modern values and culture?

#50
death666bl00ms
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Dictionary.com



That's my reference.



Notice Dictionary?



~Joe.




LOL. Yes, I also notice .com. You used a .com site as a cite for a definition. Hehehehe, Here's your sign....
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

-Genghis Khan

#51
Joes_So_Cool
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You know what, I'm going to end this thread, if someone else wants to open another one, by all means please do.



I have to go to bed and there has been 40+ posts in under 15 minutes.



There is NO WAY I can keep up with all these replies.



Sorry all.



~Joe.

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#52
xvillexvalox
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I do not believe in god, nor any religion (Besides occasionally pastafarianism, but that's different).



To me, the bible is almost a complete work of fiction, written to influence "good" behavoir among people, like stories do for little kids, not to start a cult. To me, worshiping a bible has a less amount of sanity than worshiping a Bearenstein Bears book, because atleast those have pictures.



In conclusion, if god were real, he'd send me a biscuit right now, in fact, dear god, if you make a biscuit materialize on my desk right now, I will believe fully and preach everyday.



Though, I doubt he'll make a biscuit for me, even though the trade is in his favour. I wish I had a warm biscuit right now, with some creamy butter on top.



I like many differnt biscuits, though I haven't had any in quite some time.

I believe in biscuits, I can see them, taste them, smell them, touch them, rub butter on them, and read proven facts about them in the many versions of biscuit bibles (called cookbooks), you can't do that with god.



What cookbook do you guys believe in? Personally, I'm vegetarian so I like Student's Vegetarian Cookbook, Revised: Quick, Easy, Cheap, and Tasty Vegetarian Recipes.





mmm... biscuits :thumbsup: =P~
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#53
death666bl00ms
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You know what, I'm going to end this thread, if someone else wants to open another one, by all means please do.



I have to go to bed and there has been 40+ posts in under 15 minutes.



There is NO WAY I can keep up with all these replies.



Sorry all.



~Joe.




Run, Forrest!
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

-Genghis Khan

#54
warri0r45
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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?



What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?



~Joe.




Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:


Why not.




You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.




Ok, let me try and make sense of this:



Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.



Makes sense.

#55
death666bl00ms
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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?



What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?



~Joe.




Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:


Why not.




You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.




Ok, let me try and make sense of this:



Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.



Makes sense.




Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

-Genghis Khan

#56
Errdoth
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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?



What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?



~Joe.




Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:


Why not.




You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.




Ok, let me try and make sense of this:



Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.



Makes sense.




As much sense as people picking and choosing which parts of the bible are metaphorical and which are literal.



"Well, creation is metaphorical, but jesus turning himslef into bread is completely real"

#57
warri0r45
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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?



What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?



~Joe.




Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:


Why not.




You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.




Ok, let me try and make sense of this:



Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.



Makes sense.




Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?


It's simple to understand.



I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

#58
death666bl00ms
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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?



What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?



~Joe.




Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:


Why not.




You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.




Ok, let me try and make sense of this:



Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.



Makes sense.




Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?


It's simple to understand.



I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."




Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?
"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

-Genghis Khan

#59
Lionheart_0
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Probably something to do with temptation and separating the goodies from the baddies, or something along those lines.
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#60
warri0r45
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either god's intention was for us to have free will or his intention was to limit what exactly we could do and keep us on the straight and narrow, which, according to the bible, is true. He imposed limitations on us thus limiting free will. Whether he is controlling us right now is irrelevant and regardless of the fact, he very may well be. You can't actually tell.




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