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You know what, I'm going to end this thread, if someone else wants to open another one, by all means please do.

 

 

 

I have to go to bed and there has been 40+ posts in under 15 minutes.

 

 

 

There is NO WAY I can keep up with all these replies.

 

 

 

Sorry all.

 

 

 

~Joe.


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Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

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I do not believe in god, nor any religion (Besides occasionally pastafarianism, but that's different).

 

 

 

To me, the bible is almost a complete work of fiction, written to influence "good" behavoir among people, like stories do for little kids, not to start a cult. To me, worshiping a bible has a less amount of sanity than worshiping a Bearenstein Bears book, because atleast those have pictures.

 

 

 

In conclusion, if god were real, he'd send me a biscuit right now, in fact, dear god, if you make a biscuit materialize on my desk right now, I will believe fully and preach everyday.

 

 

 

Though, I doubt he'll make a biscuit for me, even though the trade is in his favour. I wish I had a warm biscuit right now, with some creamy butter on top.

 

 

 

I like many differnt biscuits, though I haven't had any in quite some time.

 

I believe in biscuits, I can see them, taste them, smell them, touch them, rub butter on them, and read proven facts about them in the many versions of biscuit bibles (called cookbooks), you can't do that with god.

 

 

 

What cookbook do you guys believe in? Personally, I'm vegetarian so I like Student's Vegetarian Cookbook, Revised: Quick, Easy, Cheap, and Tasty Vegetarian Recipes.

 

 

 

 

 

mmm... biscuits :thumbsup: =P~


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You know what, I'm going to end this thread, if someone else wants to open another one, by all means please do.

 

 

 

I have to go to bed and there has been 40+ posts in under 15 minutes.

 

 

 

There is NO WAY I can keep up with all these replies.

 

 

 

Sorry all.

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Run, Forrest!


"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

 

-Genghis Khan

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?


"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

 

-Genghis Khan

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

As much sense as people picking and choosing which parts of the bible are metaphorical and which are literal.

 

 

 

"Well, creation is metaphorical, but jesus turning himslef into bread is completely real"

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

 

 

 

Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?


"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

 

-Genghis Khan

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[hide]

Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

[/hide]

 

 

 

Probably something to do with temptation and separating the goodies from the baddies, or something along those lines.


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[hide]

Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

 

 

 

Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?

[/hide]

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either god's intention was for us to have free will or his intention was to limit what exactly we could do and keep us on the straight and narrow, which, according to the bible, is true. He imposed limitations on us thus limiting free will. Whether he is controlling us right now is irrelevant and regardless of the fact, he very may well be. You can't actually tell.

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

 

 

 

Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?

[/hide]

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either god's intention was for us to have free will or his intention was to limit what exactly we could do, which, according to the bible, is true. He imposed limitations on us thus limiting free will. Whether he is controlling us right now is irrelevant and regardless of the fact, he very may well be. You can't actually tell.

 

 

 

How can you say He is imposing limitations? Yes, the 10 C's are "law" in some sense. Yes, you break them, you are going to Hell. But, He is not forcing us to follow them by ANY means. Your dad tells you to turn off the light and go to bed. Is he forcing you to do that? No. You still have the choice to defy him.


"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

 

-Genghis Khan

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

 

 

 

Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?

[/hide]

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either god's intention was for us to have free will or his intention was to limit what exactly we could do, which, according to the bible, is true. He imposed limitations on us thus limiting free will. Whether he is controlling us right now is irrelevant and regardless of the fact, he very may well be. You can't actually tell.

 

 

 

How can you say He is imposing limitations? Yes, the 10 C's are "law" in some sense. Yes, you break them, you are going to Hell. But, He is not forcing us to follow them by ANY means. Your dad tells you to turn off the light and go to bed. Is he forcing you to do that? No. You still have the choice to defy him.

 

 

 

My argument is that it's counter intuitive to make us with 'free will' but then impose limitations, which include genocide, to keep us in line with god's will. If we have free will, why is he trying to fix our sinful ways? Why make us with sinful propensities in the first place?

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I don't believe danofilth2 has any relation to god at all. :-s

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL. Right. Its just a coincidence that danofilth2 is close to Dani Filth, lead singer of Cradle of Filth, who developed a shirt with a picture of a nun on the front pleasuring herself with a crucifix, and the words "Jesus is a [bleep]" on the back?

 

 

 

 

 

Idiot

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Shirt


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I don't believe danofilth2 has any relation to god at all. :-s

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL. Right. Its just a coincidence that danofilth2 is close to Dani Filth, lead singer of Cradle of Filth, who developed a shirt with a picture of a nun on the front pleasuring herself with a crucifix, and the words "Jesus is a [bleep]" on the back?

 

 

 

 

 

Idiot

 

F1[/b]5.jpg

please remove that, as there are some kids that go to tip.it and we dont wanna mess up their minds, yet...

 

 

 

Done


"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

 

-Genghis Khan

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[hide]
Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

 

 

 

Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?

[/hide]

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either god's intention was for us to have free will or his intention was to limit what exactly we could do, which, according to the bible, is true. He imposed limitations on us thus limiting free will. Whether he is controlling us right now is irrelevant and regardless of the fact, he very may well be. You can't actually tell.

 

 

 

How can you say He is imposing limitations? Yes, the 10 C's are "law" in some sense. Yes, you break them, you are going to Hell. But, He is not forcing us to follow them by ANY means. Your dad tells you to turn off the light and go to bed. Is he forcing you to do that? No. You still have the choice to defy him.

 

 

 

My argument is that it's counter intuitive to make us with 'free will' but then impose limitations, which include genocide, to keep us in line with god's will. If we have free will, why is he trying to fix our sinful ways? Why make us with sinful propensities in the first place?

 

 

 

I understand your argument, but this goes back to what I was saying with "take it how you will". This will not be resolved, and frankly, there is nothing to be resolved. It is a question of beliefs, which, no matter what religion you belong to, will always be individual.


"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

 

-Genghis Khan

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

 

 

 

Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?

[/hide]

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either god's intention was for us to have free will or his intention was to limit what exactly we could do, which, according to the bible, is true. He imposed limitations on us thus limiting free will. Whether he is controlling us right now is irrelevant and regardless of the fact, he very may well be. You can't actually tell.

 

 

 

How can you say He is imposing limitations? Yes, the 10 C's are "law" in some sense. Yes, you break them, you are going to Hell. But, He is not forcing us to follow them by ANY means. Your dad tells you to turn off the light and go to bed. Is he forcing you to do that? No. You still have the choice to defy him.

 

 

 

My argument is that it's counter intuitive to make us with 'free will' but then impose limitations, which include genocide, to keep us in line with god's will. If we have free will, why is he trying to fix our sinful ways? Why make us with sinful propensities in the first place?

 

 

 

I understand your argument, but this goes back to what I was saying with "take it how you will". This will not be resolved, and frankly, there is nothing to be resolved. It is a question of beliefs, which, no matter what religion you belong to, will always be individual.

 

 

 

Let me get this straight. You believe it's sensible that god should intend to make us with 'free will' only to impose limitations when we stray from what he deems acceptable, including a world wide flood that kills all but 8 people? Why make free will in the first place or why impose the limitations? God seems to want to have it both ways - he made us with 'free will' but dosen't like it when we stray from common lines in which case he deems it acceptable to bypass everyone having their own free will and impose his own will. Kind of like god's little footnote - "you have free will*"

 

 

 

*unless I really really don't like what you do

 

 

 

If you don't want to continue I won't hammer the point after this post but I just can't see the sense in the almighty's approach on this issue.

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Did you also know that in the bible it states that on you're wedding night if you're wife isn't a virgin you are to stone her to death and leave her on her fathers doorstep?

 

 

 

What happened to "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

 

 

 

~Joe.

 

 

 

Silly, silly, silly little boy. Didn't you learn anything in Sunday School? Can't compare O.T. with N.T. there, ace. :shame:

 

Why not.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. You can. Not in the context that he is though. Read up a couple posts. He is talking about the stoning of a woman for not being a virgin before the commandment "you shall not kill"m and uses that as proof as the Bible's contradictions. He also fails to mention when Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the adultress Mary of Magdalene in the N.T.

 

 

 

Ok, let me try and make sense of this:

 

 

 

Before 10 C's, there was stoning to death if you're not a virgin when you marry ----> 10 C's dictated from god through Moses ----> Jesus eventually speaks out against stoning adultress.

 

 

 

Makes sense.

 

 

 

Its called a process. Yes, before 10 C's there was stonings. Yes God "spoke through Moses" against these things. He saw his people acting in a way He did not like, so he set some "rules". And Jesus "eventually speaks out against stoning"? Why did He send His only son again? Ah yes. Because He saw His people acting in a way He did not like. What is so hard about this?

 

It's simple to understand.

 

 

 

I do wonder, though, if we're supposed to have free will, why is god trying to 'fix' us all the time (at least in the past with Noah, dictating 10 C's and bringing Jesus to us). It's like "ok, go do your thing, you have free will, but I'm going to kick you up the bum a few times if you don't follow my will."

 

 

 

Take it how you will. I take it as He is allowing us to have free will. Is he controlling what you are writing right now?

[/hide]

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either god's intention was for us to have free will or his intention was to limit what exactly we could do, which, according to the bible, is true. He imposed limitations on us thus limiting free will. Whether he is controlling us right now is irrelevant and regardless of the fact, he very may well be. You can't actually tell.

 

 

 

How can you say He is imposing limitations? Yes, the 10 C's are "law" in some sense. Yes, you break them, you are going to Hell. But, He is not forcing us to follow them by ANY means. Your dad tells you to turn off the light and go to bed. Is he forcing you to do that? No. You still have the choice to defy him.

 

 

 

My argument is that it's counter intuitive to make us with 'free will' but then impose limitations, which include genocide, to keep us in line with god's will. If we have free will, why is he trying to fix our sinful ways? Why make us with sinful propensities in the first place?

 

 

 

I understand your argument, but this goes back to what I was saying with "take it how you will". This will not be resolved, and frankly, there is nothing to be resolved. It is a question of beliefs, which, no matter what religion you belong to, will always be individual.

 

 

 

Let me get this straight. You believe it's sensible that god should intend to make us with 'free will' only to impose limitations when we stray from what he deems acceptable, including a world wide flood that kills all but 8 people? Why make free will in the first place or why impose the limitations? God seems to want to have it both ways - he made us with 'free will' but dosen't like it when we stray from common lines in which case he deems it acceptable to bypass everyone having their own free will and impose his own will. Kind of like god's little footnote - "you have free will*"

 

 

 

*unless I really really don't like what you do

 

 

 

If you don't want to continue I won't hammer the point after this post but I just can't see the sense in the almighty's approach on this issue.

 

 

 

 

 

One thing before I call it quits...(otherwise there will be no end to it, there never is in these types of discussions)

 

 

 

I am not someone who takes the Bible literally. By any means. World Wide Flood? Psh. More like a flash flood. (It was actually proved several years ago that a major flooding of the Dead Sea occurred around the time Noah was said to have lived.)


"The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms."

 

-Genghis Khan

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The argument would still stand if you're of the view that we have free will and it's true that god sought to limit that will in one way or another.

 

 

 

Apart from that, my argument would basically be against a literal interpretation, so point taken.

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The creator of everything that is, sure some people call it God, I choose not to label it as anything though :)

 

 

 

May it be some angry person who lives in the clouds, or some scientific matter of some mysterious substance, it will still be the creator of everything that is and will ever be.


igoddessIsig.png

 

The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours.

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The creator of everything that is, sure some people call it God, I choose not to label it as anything though :)

 

 

 

May it be some angry person who lives in the clouds, or some scientific matter of some mysterious substance, it will still be the creator of everything that is and will ever be.

 

I've always had a problem with the "creator" idea. If a force or being created the universe, what would have created that force or being?

 

 

 

If we assume that the force/being has "always existed" -- then why can't we apply that same logic to our universe?

 

 

 

Personally, I don't believe the Big Bang created the universe. Instead, I believe that the universe has always existed. It exists in a constant cycle of death (think big crunch) and rebirth (think big bang).

 

 

 

The cyclic universe model is still a relatively new concept, but it has gained quite a lot of attention in the scientific community.

 

Steinhardt model (2001 theory)

 

Frampton model (2007 theory)

 

 

 

The idea that "universe = God" isn't very far fetched when you compare it to some of the current belief systems. ;)

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11239809584303ebjg9.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Bahahaha. I laughed so hard seeing that. :lol:

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Without God, I find it hard to justify any sort of objective reality;

 

thus, God is real, to many people, and I accept that.

 

 

 

God is not real to me.


Everybody hug and spread the love :D

 

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Without God, I find it hard to justify any sort of objective reality;

 

thus, God is real, to many people, and I accept that.

 

 

 

God is not real to me.

 

 

 

Yeah, I totally agree with this. What I think happens with these kind of topics is, people get mixed up between believing in a god and following a religion, which are very much two different things...

 

I believe there is a "grand creator" - i've always thought that the universe was infinite in the way that, right now looking at your computer screen, you're looking at millions and millions of galaxies - contained in there are lifeforms, planets, everything - it's just so small, relatively talking, that their million years happens in a fraction of a second to us. I believe that we're just as small to someone else, and just as huge to those that are right in front of us - and we could easily have been created by the spark from someone bashing two rocks together. If you get me. Not someone who shaped people to be people, trees to be trees etc, I believe that's all down to adaptation, and the primordial soup thing - that everything living started off as some form of single cell, and over huge periods of time has become what it's become and evolved into itself.

 

 

 

What I don't believe is heaven and hell, almighty power, divine blessings, holy punshiment etc. I just can't see how that would possibly exist...

 

 

 

The only "god" I can believe to be real is Buddah, and I don't believe he's a god at all, just a guy who learned to live his life the way he wanted to and had a vision that helped him see what the world was really like and how he could change it. Seems a lot more realistic to me.


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I believe in God. I shouldn't get flamed for it though. :|


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I believe in God. I shouldn't get flamed for it though. :|

 

 

 

And you're right, you shouldn't. But there is a mistake that most theist make that I tend to find annoying.

 

 

 

If you are a theist, and base your religion around nothing really but faith, this is ok in my eyes. It's something you believe, and I think you should have a right to believe it.

 

 

 

But then, by saying you are a theist that is part of a religion, you are saying that you base all your values on a book or scriptures, is that is usually the basis for a religion. This is where most atheist try and argue with theists because they use blind faith, and its not a personal thing. It almost seems you are sheep following a herder.... which isn't exactly good.


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