Is God real post your thoughts!

[RichieMcD]

Didn't they justify the Crusades by saying it was God's will?

 

That isn't justification any more than Hitler's "justification" for killing Jews. It was manipulation by the upper classes for their own gain.

 

It doesn't matter what the real reason was, it's that they are saying it's okay because God says it's okay!

 

But GOD DIDN'T SAY IT WAS OK!

 

 

 

If I were to say we should start mass murdering Muslims because God told me it was Ok, but he didn't really tell me, that's not religion being evil, that's some idiot trying to exploit it.

 

Thank you for making my point for me?

 

 

 

If you were going against religion your point failed. The voice of some random idiot is not the voice of God.

 

If I recall, the Pope said condoms were not the will of God. Is the Pope some random idiot?

 

 

 

Well yes he is considering he publically announced that the use of condoms will only further worsen the AIDS epidemic and the only way to avoid the epidemic is to stick to the guidelines of the church.

 

 

 

If he really cared for his followers, he'd be demanding Western nations to send thousands of condoms over right now.

[Lenticular_J]

Douglas Adams sums it up pretty nicely for me:

 

 

 

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

 

Sometimes the fairies can keep you company and help you when you fall down in the garden, though. ;)

[warri0r45]

Douglas Adams sums it up pretty nicely for me:

 

 

 

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

 

Sometimes the fairies can keep you company and help you when you fall down in the garden, though. ;)

 

 

 

And sometimes it's worth facing the reality that you're keeping company with thin air. Real people will keep you company just fine if you fall down in the garden. They're more talkative, too. ;)

[Racheya]

Alright, the big argument is that "it just seems too unbelievable." You know what? I agree. It sounds really far out there. But everything has to have come from somewhere. Who says God isn't something scientific? I think that God created everything, but instead of being some supernatural being, is an entity that has these abilities that can be explained by science. Pretyt much, just something that can create that we haven't discovered yet.

 

 

 

As for the Bible, no human can decide what God wants and has said because to be completely honest noone has any freaking idea what God wants.

 

 

 

Jesus: Whether or not he was the messiah sent by God I don't know, most likely not, but he was a good man and there's no denying that.

 

I agree with this really. I highly highly doubt that God as a man with a beard in the clouds is real - he's much more likely an alien that came to earth. 8-) (not kidding) He gave us things such as art and literature, because the problem with evolution is that it's based on the idea that we evolve traits that help us survive, and the ability to create beautiful architechture, appreciate a painting, create a government ect... doesn't really help us to survive. So where did we get it from?

[Lunar_Drifter]

I agree with this really. I highly highly doubt that God as a man with a beard in the clouds is real - he's much more likely an alien that came to earth. 8-) (not kidding) He gave us things such as art and literature, because the problem with evolution is that it's based on the idea that we evolve traits that help us survive, and the ability to create beautiful architechture, appreciate a painting, create a government ect... doesn't really help us to survive. So where did we get it from?

 

 

 

The discovery of manufactured stone tools made life easier and less time consuming for our ancestors, thus giving them more leisure time in which their minds could wander. Also, living a hunter/gatherer lifestyle, a good kill could last the group for more than a few days. In the time when they still had food, they had time in which they could do things not necessary for survival.

[Dizzle229]

I agree with this really. I highly highly doubt that God as a man with a beard in the clouds is real - he's much more likely an alien that came to earth. 8-) (not kidding) He gave us things such as art and literature, because the problem with evolution is that it's based on the idea that we evolve traits that help us survive, and the ability to create beautiful architechture, appreciate a painting, create a government ect... doesn't really help us to survive. So where did we get it from?

 

 

 

The discovery of manufactured stone tools made life easier and less time consuming for our ancestors, thus giving them more leisure time in which their minds could wander. Also, living a hunter/gatherer lifestyle, a good kill could last the group for more than a few days. In the time when they still had food, they had time in which they could do things not necessary for survival.

 

 

 

But where did life come from in the first place? I think an experiment in the Middle Ages showed that spontaneous generation is impossible.

 

 

 

Also, does anyone else find it funny that until recently the Church didn't accept evolution, and there have been some evolutions in humans since Jesus?

[Lateralus]

I agree with this really. I highly highly doubt that God as a man with a beard in the clouds is real - he's much more likely an alien that came to earth. 8-) (not kidding) He gave us things such as art and literature, because the problem with evolution is that it's based on the idea that we evolve traits that help us survive, and the ability to create beautiful architechture, appreciate a painting, create a government ect... doesn't really help us to survive. So where did we get it from?

 

 

 

The discovery of manufactured stone tools made life easier and less time consuming for our ancestors, thus giving them more leisure time in which their minds could wander. Also, living a hunter/gatherer lifestyle, a good kill could last the group for more than a few days. In the time when they still had food, they had time in which they could do things not necessary for survival.

 

 

 

But where did life come from in the first place? I think an experiment in the Middle Ages showed that spontaneous generation is impossible.

 

 

 

Also, does anyone else find it funny that until recently the Church didn't accept evolution, and there have been some evolutions in humans since Jesus?

 

 

 

Abiogenesis is one of the explanations for the origins of life, but I'd need to leave it to Warrior to explain it to you.

 

 

 

Microevolution has always been accepted by the church, macroevolution was/is disputed.

[Dizzle229]

But where did life come from in the first place? I think an experiment in the Middle Ages showed that spontaneous generation is impossible.

 

Ah, I see. Middle Ages experimentation > Modern experimentation.

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

Are you saying that spontaneous life is possible? Try it for yourself, in this experiment they were just as spot on then as we can be now.

[Dizzle229]

But where did life come from in the first place? I think an experiment in the Middle Ages showed that spontaneous generation is impossible.

 

Ah, I see. Middle Ages experimentation > Modern experimentation.

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

Are you saying that spontaneous life is possible? Try it for yourself, in this experiment they were just as spot on then as we can be now.

 

The fact is, the planet earth is a grain of sand on the longest beach. The Universe holds so many secrets, no living person has any idea about anything.

 

 

 

And that's where the God entity comes in. You still don't get it. God is WHATEVER entity it is that creates, but don't treat it like it's some ghost floating in space, because the answer is more scientific than that.

[Dizzle229]

But where did life come from in the first place? I think an experiment in the Middle Ages showed that spontaneous generation is impossible.

 

Ah, I see. Middle Ages experimentation > Modern experimentation.

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

Are you saying that spontaneous life is possible? Try it for yourself, in this experiment they were just as spot on then as we can be now.

 

The fact is, the planet earth is a grain of sand on the longest beach. The Universe holds so many secrets, no living person has any idea about anything.

 

 

 

And that's where the God entity comes in. You still don't get it. God is WHATEVER entity it is that creates, but don't treat it like it's some ghost floating in space, because the answer is more scientific than that.

 

It isn't scientific at all! People have all these reasons for believing in God, oh, Earth is perfect for us and blah blah blah. But really they have no idea! Nobody does.

 

 

 

GOD IS NOT A LIVING ENTITY THAT PURPOSELY CREATES THINGS. IT'S JUST WHATEVER IT IS THAT DOES CREATE. THAT IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.

[Dizzle229]

Could very well be. Just because it's written in the Bible that God said it doesn't make it right. Like you said, no human as any idea.

[Dizzle229]

Could very well be. Just because it's written in the Bible that God said it doesn't make it right. Like you said, no human as any idea.

 

Just wondering, are you religious? Because maybe I read it wrong, but that sounded like an athiest point of view.

 

 

 

I'm Catholic, but with very, VERY altered views. Basically, I just don't see how anyone could possibly know the things that are written in the Bible, though I do believe there has to be a God in the form that I just described. I still like the Bible though, some pretty good lessons in there.

[RichieMcD]

But where did life come from in the first place? I think an experiment in the Middle Ages showed that spontaneous generation is impossible.

 

Ah, I see. Middle Ages experimentation > Modern experimentation.

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

Are you saying that spontaneous life is possible? Try it for yourself, in this experiment they were just as spot on then as we can be now.

 

The fact is, the planet earth is a grain of sand on the longest beach. The Universe holds so many secrets, no living person has any idea about anything.

 

 

 

And that's where the God entity comes in. You still don't get it. God is WHATEVER entity it is that creates, but don't treat it like it's some ghost floating in space, because the answer is more scientific than that.

 

 

 

There is nothing scientific about God, "god" is simply an invention of the first human beings who couldn't explain why it rained, why some crops got diseases and others didn't, why some people faced hardship all life and others didn't. Basically, they couldn't explain many simple things nowadays, so they simply invented god and he was either happy or sad depending on said situation.

 

 

 

Nothing scientific, just a theory invented for things which couldn't be explained.

[Lenticular_J]

And sometimes it's worth facing the reality that you're keeping company with thin air. Real people will keep you company just fine if you fall down in the garden. They're more talkative, too. ;)

 

I have my beliefs, you have yours. God is a reality to me just as much as He isn't to you. I like my beliefs, and while it's clear I'm in the minority here in this vogue of rabid conversion atheism on these boards, I'm sticking to them.

 

 

 

On a somewhat related note, I'm pretty sure the Bible was written by Romans some 300 years after Jesus's death.

 

Old Testament: Between 8,000 and 4,000 BC. New Testament, from 300 BC to 700 AD or so. There's a reason why there's a Book of Romans, Luke, whatever.

[Dizzle229]

-.-

 

 

 

This thread isn't fun anymore. It's just everyone trying to convert each other.

[user1991]

And sometimes it's worth facing the reality that you're keeping company with thin air. Real people will keep you company just fine if you fall down in the garden. They're more talkative, too. ;)

 

I have my beliefs, you have yours. God is a reality to me just as much as He isn't to you. I like my beliefs, and while it's clear I'm in the minority here in this vogue of rabid conversion atheism on these boards, I'm sticking to them.

 

 

 

And that's fine just don't try to put them into the systems of law and education.

[Dizzle229]

And sometimes it's worth facing the reality that you're keeping company with thin air. Real people will keep you company just fine if you fall down in the garden. They're more talkative, too. ;)

 

I have my beliefs, you have yours. God is a reality to me just as much as He isn't to you. I like my beliefs, and while it's clear I'm in the minority here in this vogue of rabid conversion atheism on these boards, I'm sticking to them.

 

 

 

And that's fine just don't try to put them into the systems of law and education.

 

 

 

Where is it in the systems of law and education? Church and state are legally seperate, but I think we'd have a problem if you had to be Atheist to be in government.

[mmmcannibalism]

There is nothing scientific about God, "god" is simply an invention of the first human beings who couldn't explain why it rained, why some crops got diseases and others didn't, why some people faced hardship all life and others didn't. Basically, they couldn't explain many simple things nowadays, so they simply invented god and he was either happy or sad depending on said situation.

 

 

 

Nothing scientific, just a theory invented for things which couldn't be explained.

 

 

 

the idea of the atom was proposed back in greek times well before it could be explained, turns out (I think aristotle) was correct. Now, thats not to say there is a backing for gods existence, but its foolish to act you like you are proving god wrong.

 

 

 

Its always going to end up as a simple difference of opinion, since you cant prove or disprove the existence of any god. You cant point out flaws in the bible or quaran or torrah and so on but that doesnt mean that no god exists. For instance, I am agnostic believing that either a. there is no god and therefore fatalism exists or b. there is a god but he is either a deist type god or in some way limited in power.

[Dizzle229]

There is nothing scientific about God, "god" is simply an invention of the first human beings who couldn't explain why it rained, why some crops got diseases and others didn't, why some people faced hardship all life and others didn't. Basically, they couldn't explain many simple things nowadays, so they simply invented god and he was either happy or sad depending on said situation.

 

 

 

Nothing scientific, just a theory invented for things which couldn't be explained.

 

 

 

the idea of the atom was proposed back in greek times well before it could be explained, turns out (I think aristotle) was correct. Now, thats not to say there is a backing for gods existence, but its foolish to act you like you are proving god wrong.

 

 

 

Its always going to end up as a simple difference of opinion, since you cant prove or disprove the existence of any god. You cant point out flaws in the bible or quaran or torrah and so on but that doesnt mean that no god exists. For instance, I am agnostic believing that either a. there is no god and therefore fatalism exists or b. there is a god but he is either a deist type god or in some way limited in power.

 

No, Aristotle was the guy who thought of taxonomy. I forget the atom guy's name.

 

 

 

Then ask the e-Gods, Google and Wikipedia.

[user1991]

And sometimes it's worth facing the reality that you're keeping company with thin air. Real people will keep you company just fine if you fall down in the garden. They're more talkative, too. ;)

 

I have my beliefs, you have yours. God is a reality to me just as much as He isn't to you. I like my beliefs, and while it's clear I'm in the minority here in this vogue of rabid conversion atheism on these boards, I'm sticking to them.

 

 

 

And that's fine just don't try to put them into the systems of law and education.

 

 

 

Where is it in the systems of law and education? Church and state are legally seperate, but I think we'd have a problem if you had to be Atheist to be in government.

 

 

 

No, people in power can believe what they want, just as long as they don't put those religious beliefs into the law.

 

 

 

People are trying to teach creationism in science classes and have the Bible as the law of the land etc, and they have been trying to do this since the constitution was initially drafted.

 

 

 

It needs to be made clear that this can NEVER happen.

 

 

 

Hell, I'm not even from the USA and I don't live there, only reason I engage in these debates is because most people are from the US and I'd be talking with only a few people if I was debating UK politics. Oh and, in the UK we have no separation of Church and state for some reason. We all pay taxes that go to the Church. Fortunately, we don't have as many religious fundamentalists as you and the idea of scripture being the law is something which is ridiculed by the press whenever it is brought up. Thatcher simply evoked God in a speech and she was destroyed by the press for it.

[Dizzle229]

 

 

 

People are trying to teach creationism in science classes and have the Bible as the law of the land etc, and they have been trying to do this since the constitution was initially drafted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't treat that like it's a problem the government still needs to address, it's already illegal to teach that.

[user1991]

 

 

 

People are trying to teach creationism in science classes and have the Bible as the law of the land etc, and they have been trying to do this since the constitution was initially drafted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't treat that like it's a problem the government still needs to address, it's already illegal to teach that.

 

 

 

For now.

[mmmcannibalism]

Where is it in the systems of law and education? Church and state are legally seperate, but I think we'd have a problem if you had to be Atheist to be in government.

 

They were going to have a School Board vote whether to teach evolution or intelligent design in Kansas.

 

 

 

that happened a while ago I believe, how do you think the church of the flying spaghetti monster came about?

 

 

 

intelligent design in schools was however a mistake, if it was at all a scientific theory it would belong in science; however, we should allow the debate of creation evolution intelligent design etc in schools within history/philosophy or wherever it is appropriate.

 

 

 

edit

 

 

 

for now

 

 

 

religion is on the decline in general, and education is moving away from teaching anything but evolution. Paranoid much?

[warri0r45]

But where did life come from in the first place? I think an experiment in the Middle Ages showed that spontaneous generation is impossible.

 

Ah, I see. Middle Ages experimentation > Modern experimentation.

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

Are you saying that spontaneous life is possible? Try it for yourself, in this experiment they were just as spot on then as we can be now.

 

 

 

There are viable biological mechanisms though not all of the gaps in knowledge have been filled in yet. The main problem for abiogenesis is that we just can't recreate those mechanisms in their unbroken entirety yet. We might be able to make amino acids and nucleotides from inorganic precursors, polymerise amino acids and nucleotides on the surface of a particular clay, form autocatalytic and self-perpetuating polymers and induce the formation of lipid vescicles for them to go in, but we can't create life reminiscent of modern day bacteria from a bunch of chemicals yet. That's a bit of a red herring anyway since abiogenesis doesn't propose the creation of modern day bacteria from inorganic chemicals. The most important thing to remember is that the process of abiogenesis is more of a continuum as more primitive 'life forms' were being constantly refined by natural selection.

 

 

 

So far abiogenesis looks nothing but possible, and even probable given the size of the universe and the abundance of the chemicals needed. If you want I could point you in the direction of more information.

[Zierro]

I'm just saying. Compare religious beliefs with style. Although someone appears to be unique because of his/her sense of fashion, they are only unique relative to the norms established by society. You don't see anyone walking around in oldschool pilot attire because they would be treated like a quack. Same thing goes for "personal" beliefs. Your choices in believing what you like are more constrained than you'd think.

 

 

 

You can't blame everything on social norms. People normally don't like the color brown or the smell of crap but it's not because of the fact that no one else does - it's because it's not appealing to them personally.