Errdoth Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 If someone is told that his purpose Noone tells you your life purpose, you decide it yourself. And to me, it'd be a lot more meaningful if I came to terms with it on my own, not having it decided already :? Last.fm Signature Overlays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonpost Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 If someone is told that his purpose is to feed all of the starving children in the world but all he does is eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die, does he fulfill his purpose? It's probably better to say simply "all he does is live and die" than to put in some stereotype with a rather dismal image attached to it...we have to be realistic here. However, most people would say that if he helped feed many starving children, he at least got the rest of humanity a step closer to fulfilling that purpose. He fulfilled it to the best of his ability (if that was his life's work). One could argue the best way to attack the problem of hunger, but that's a different matter completely. Runescape Name: "unbug07"Expand your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 If someone is told that his purpose No one tells you your life purpose, you decide it yourself. Usually some people choose it from the obstacles and growth they've endured. For example, the father who grew up in a broken home who is battling to raise his 3 kids, eat, work, sleep and die. His life purpose was to raise his kids better than his own father raised him. Who decided that you decide your own purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Are you saying that the purpose of life is to eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die? Nobody can believe that surely. Even those who only do eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die complete whatever life purpose they have desired. I can give you many examples: The girl who was sexually assaulted as a child may grow to become an officer of a child protection agency and has completed her life purpose of saving many kids from this kind of abuse. The guy who was told he was never good enough as a child may grow to become the best of the best. His life purpose might have been to graduate in the top 5% of the state and earn his much respected "Dr." title. The person, who was brought up in a very Conservative family, may grow to become a messenger of God. His life purpose might have been to share God's message and to help people get in to heaven. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Who decided that you decide your own purpose? Psychologically speaking the very environment I was raised in. If you were raised in a different environment, your opinions, thoughts, religion most probably wouldn't be the same as it is now. Would you like me to go further and explain the different parts of the brain in development for you or something? Who decided that you decide your own purpose? So you're saying that God decided that the father would grow up in a broken home, become an Athiest, eat, work, sleep and die. To desire the life purpose to raise his kids better than his father raised him? What's your point? You grasp at straws. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Are you saying that the purpose of life is to eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die? Nobody can believe that surely. Even those who only do eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die complete whatever life purpose they have desired. I can give you many examples: The girl who was sexually assaulted as a child may grow to become an officer of a child protection agency and has completed her life purpose of saving many kids from this kind of abuse. The guy who was told he was never good enough as a child may grow to become the best of the best. His life purpose might have been to graduate in the top 5% of the state and earn his much respected "Dr." title. The person, who was brought up in a very Conservative family, may grow to become a messenger of God. His life purpose might have been to share God's message and to help people get in to heaven. The girl who was sexually assaulted did not choose to be sexually assaulted therefore she did not choose her own purpose. And so on for the rest of your examples.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Who decided that you decide your own purpose? Psychologically speaking the very environment I was raised in. If you were raised in a different environment, your opinions, thoughts, religion most probably wouldn't be the same as it is now. Would you like me to go further and explain the different parts of the brain in development for you or something? What is your purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomai Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Theravada is the "protestantism" of buddhism, it's a minority sect comprising about 15-20% of all buddhist people. What's your point? :-s It's still an atheistic religion. Who decided that you decide your own purpose? I decided to decide my own purpose. :) In other words, I decided not to let somebody else decide my purpose for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Who decided that you decide your own purpose? So you're saying that God decided that the father would grow up in a broken home, become an Athiest, eat, work, sleep and die. To desire the life purpose to raise his kids better than his father raised him? I already disproved your theory that the purpose of every AtheistÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s life is to eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die. Diverting the fact that you're incorrect with asking me more questions is rather silly. What's your point? You grasp at straws. What is your purpose? I know my purpose and that's all that matters :D The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Theravada is the "protestantism" of buddhism, it's a minority sect comprising about 15-20% of all buddhist people. What's your point? :-s It's still an atheistic religion. Regardless if there are atheistic religions or not does not disprove the fact that atheism is not a religion. Who decided that you decide your own purpose? I decided to decide my own purpose. :) In other words, I decided not to let somebody else decide my purpose for me. So if a calculator became self-aware it could choose a purpose other than one that involves calculating stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Plectrum: read my previous post. "What is life's purpose" and "Why are we alive" are two different questions with two different answers. read my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Plectrum: read my previous post. "What is life's purpose" and "Why are we alive" are two different questions with two different answers. read my previous post. PaperClips, your previous post was hardly coherent. I'll go back and decipher it when I have 5 hours to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Plectrum: read my previous post. "What is life's purpose" and "Why are we alive" are two different questions with two different answers. read my previous post. PaperClips, your previous post was hardly coherent. I'll go back and decipher it when I have 5 hours to spare. What is incoherent to you? You make the mistake of assuming that "What is life's purpose" and "Why are we alive" are the same question. They actually refer to two different subjects, and I explained why in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 They are incoherent because I can't find the connection between your points and life having purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 They are incoherent because I can't find the connection between your points and life having purpose. Life's purpose is whatever you want it to be. That answers "what is life's purpose." "Why are we alive?" is a completely different, more religious-related question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomai Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Regardless if there are atheistic religions or not does not disprove the fact that atheism is not a religion. Who's implying that atheism is a religion? So if a calculator became self-aware it could choose a purpose other than one that involves calculating stuff? If a calculator became self-aware and had the same intellectual ability as a human, then sure, it can choose a purpose for its life. Ever seen I, Robot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meol Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Quite an interesting discussion you're having here. I've followed it from the very beginning. I just wanted to answer a comment, because I saw it was left unanswered, and it seems important to me. [hide] Are you saying that the purpose of life is to eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die? Nobody can believe that surely. Even those who only do eat, work, reproduce, pay taxes and die complete whatever life purpose they have desired. I can give you many examples: The girl who was sexually assaulted as a child may grow to become an officer of a child protection agency and has completed her life purpose of saving many kids from this kind of abuse. The guy who was told he was never good enough as a child may grow to become the best of the best. His life purpose might have been to graduate in the top 5% of the state and earn his much respected "Dr." title. The person, who was brought up in a very Conservative family, may grow to become a messenger of God. His life purpose might have been to share God's message and to help people get in to heaven. The girl who was sexually assaulted did not choose to be sexually assaulted therefore she did not choose her own purpose. And so on for the rest of your examples..[/hide] She did not choose to be sexually assaulted, but she had several chooses about how that single moment would change her life. She could have become a criminal herself, to seek revenge. She could have chosen that her purpose would be to be a common housewife and raise children that wouldn't get sexually assaulted, and that wouldn't do that to other people. She could have chosen to become an officer of a child protection agency[...] The point is, she still has the chance to decide how a specific event will define her purpose on life. (Trying to stay open-minded, I must add:) Which could or could have not been previously "selected" or "foreseen" by God, in order to influence other people. 2500th post! Woot! This signature is intentionally left blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 They are incoherent because I can't find the connection between your points and life having purpose. I can not find the difference between the purpose of your life and the purpose of the atheists life. Who determines your purpose? You, and you have chosen that God. It all leads back to your own independant decision, no matter what the conclusion is. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Ok, my turn to ask a question: Why is it that you only see life as meaningful if there is an afterlife and/or a supernatural being who dictates what that meaning is? You don't see the possibility of seeing meaning in living a life of charity, empathy, compassion, friendship, family, art and love? You don't see that we can form meaning ourselves independent of belief in something higher? Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things. Of course. That you can envisage and have faith in something as a source of absolute truth and meaning is uncompelling to me, but IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m happy for you nonetheless. Furthermore, I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t need absolutes to see meaning or purpose in my life. As Satenza has said, meaning comes to each of us individually. Whether you think itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s absolute is irrelevant to the fact that itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s you who garners faith in this concept for your own personal meaning, including the notion of it being absolute making it more meaningful in your eyes. IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m curious ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ why do you only see something as meaningful or purposeful when itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s 'absolute'? (If this is a straw man IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll gladly retract it which would then force you to concede that an atheist can have purpose or meaning in their life irrespective of it being 'absolute') If a bunch of art critics (or indeed anyone and everyone) badmouth a 2 year old girl's picture drawn for her father, does that make it unmeaningful or purposeless? Of course not. ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s incredibly meaningful for the father irrespective of any 'absolute' meaning perceived and dictated by others. In the same way, I can form my own meaning and purpose that is incredibly profound to me irrespective of yours or any other theist's views on what constitutes meaning or purpose. Ok, my turn to ask a question: Why is it that you only see life as meaningful if there is an afterlife and/or a supernatural being who dictates what that meaning is? You don't see the posibility of seeing meaning in living a life of charity, empathy, compassion, friendship, family, art and love? You don't see that we can form meaning ourselves independant of belief in something higher? Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things. Its irrelevant as to whether meaning is absolute or truthful, it seems absurd for an atheist to say that seperate meanings to life can at the same time be bound together and be valid for all. Infact it sounds absurd for anyone to say that. Which leaves us with whether something externally places a meaning to our life which is possible, or whether we place meaning on our own lives. Either way we both discover that meaning internally. You discovered your faith internally, and therefore your meaning to life. Just as I may discover my meaning to life internally. Whether we like it or not that meaning does exist individuallly to ourselves. You may have faith that your meaning to life applies to everyone, however you are in the same sense doing what you said was absurd. Taking something individual and applying it to the universal. Well said. Because Atheists don't have an alternative viewpoint of meaning/purpose. There simple response is there is no meaning/purpose. You need to learn meaning is a personal thing and not necessarily absolute ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ ask an Australian whether our country winning the water polo world championship is meaningful to him and he could very well say no, yet ask him whether us winning the Cricket World Cup was meaningful to him and he could very well say yes, bloody oath. What makes you think meaning to a theist equals the one and only meaning? Atheists have many alternate viewpoints on meaning and purpose in their lives. Let me ask you something ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ why do you believe in god or an afterlife and how does doing so give you meaning? For your own personal reward? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives. It gives you comfort? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives. What exactly motivates you to believe in god and an afterlife. How exactly does it give your life purpose/meaning? Because you have something to live for? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives. Because you want to have a relationship with god? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives (substituting 'god' with a loved one). Come on theists, cough up. What exactly motivates you to believe and how does belief in god and an afterlife give you purpose or meaning that an atheist canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have in some different context? It seems that atheists and theists alike find purpose in much the same way ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ they find something profound and meaningful to them personally. That theists say god gives them some greater meaning is playing entirely into the hands of this view ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ you all perceive your chosen meaning as dictated by god and conclude this as the most personally meaningful to you. Likewise, an atheist will perceive his/her chosen meaning and purpose independent of the dictates of another and conclude this as the most personally meaningful to them (I find the search for my very own meaning and purpose true to myself and independant of anyone else very meaningful). Atheism affirms that. What Atheism doesn't affirm is that life has meaning and purpose. If you are trying to hint that there is purpose/meaning for Atheism what is it? Why are we alive? Saying that we enjoy life and that we exist does not answer that question. Correct, atheism doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t affirm nor does it reject the possibility of purpose or meaning in life, however an atheist can do just that, for themselves, independent of your personal theistic answers (which are often uncompelling to an atheist). That last sentence seems to characterize some theistic perceptions of meaning perfectly. "ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s just not meaningful unless itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s meaningful according to me and my religion." If someone is told that his purpose No one tells you your life purpose, you decide it yourself. Usually some people choose it from the obstacles and growth they've endured. For example, the father who grew up in a broken home who is battling to raise his 3 kids, eat, work, sleep and die. His life purpose was to raise his kids better than his own father raised him. Who decided that you decide your own purpose? For one, I decide that I decide my own purpose. Who are you to stop me? You decide that god gives you purpose so I canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see why I canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t decide that I give myself purpose. What I choose is thus purposeful to me personally and I find that fulfilling. If you like to believe that life is only purposeful if that purpose is dictated by a god (which is what you decided, thus you decided what gives you purpose, so instead of deciding your own purpose, you decide who else does, i.e. god) then good for you, I really donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mind. Not everyone thinks this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 You don't seem to realize what purpose is. Purpose is a driving force. But what is the sense of a driving force if it doesn't go anywhere? If your entire life is spent feeding the hungry but as soon as you feed the hungry the entire world implodes? What is the purpose of feeding the hungry? What is the purpose of living if you die? What is the purpose of suffering if there isn't joy? And what is the purpose of joy if there wasn't suffering? What is the purpose of light if there isn't dark? What is the purpose of Atheism if there wasn't belief in God? What is the purpose of jail if there weren't criminals? What is the purpose of safety if there isn't danger? What is the purpose of eating if your going to die? What is the purpose of working if you are going to die? What is the purpose of laughing if your are going to cry? What is the purpose of a beginning if there wasn't an end? Purpose always relates back to a higher reason. The purpose of eating is to live, but ultimately you are going to die. So what is the higher purpose of eating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 You don't seem to realize what purpose is. Purpose is a driving force. But what is the sense of a driving force if it doesn't go anywhere? If your entire life is spent feeding the hungry but as soon as you feed the hungry the entire world implodes? What is the purpose of feeding the hungry? What is the purpose of living if you die? What is the purpose of suffering if there isn't joy? And what is the purpose of joy if there wasn't suffering? What is the purpose of light if there isn't dark? What is the purpose of Atheism if there wasn't belief in God? What is the purpose of jail if there weren't criminals? What is the purpose of safety if there isn't danger? What is the purpose of eating if your going to die? What is the purpose of working if you are going to die? What is the purpose of laughing if your are going to cry? What is the purpose of a beginning if there wasn't an end? Purpose always relates back to a higher reason. The purpose of eating is to live, but ultimately you are going to die. So what is the higher purpose of eating? So atheists don't have a driving force? I disagree with your view. If a driving force is limited to this life then so what? Who are you to say that you can't have a drive or determination if your focus is on this life alone? Your view that there can only be purpose if there is a 'higher' purpose is one I don't share. By the way you didn't answer any of my questions. Why do you want this 'higher' purpose? For what reasons? What would you say if I then applied all that to your god. Let's say he must have a higher purpose as you seem to like to argue. Then there must be another higher being still above him. Apply the same consideration yet again and again ad nauseum -> Infinite regress. Sorry, I'd much rather focus on the here and now with my drive in life. It's much more fulfilling to me personally. :) Edit: Your purpose seems to be focused on consequences. Mine is in the moment, i.e. this life. You say what was the purpose of feeding the hungry of the world if the world implodes soon after? There was purpose at the time and any occurance thereafter dosen't change that fact. If you like to think that there is only purpose to life based on supernatural consequences then I simply don't agree with you. I can recognise that this is how you personally see yourself as having purpose. Can you recognise the same of me and my view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 What the *$ are you gibbering on and on about? Nearly all of that paragraph either a) blatantly doesn't make any sense, or B) has nothing to do with what you're arguing. Can you try and explain it, without randomly repeating ambiguous questions? 'Cause all I'm seeing is, "because I don't think that life can have a purpose with death, something that doesn't have an opposite must not have a purpose", which I'm still trying to decipher. What about the fact that there's an end to life makes it impossible for it to have a meaning? And just for the hell of it, since I know you're going to ask anyway, here's why that whole entire frikkin' paragraph makes less sense than my two-year old cousin: You don't seem to realize what purpose is. Purpose is a driving force. But what is the sense of a driving force if it doesn't go anywhere? Either you're trying to think of something psychological in terms of physics [poorly], or you're going to have to re-explain that to me. If your entire life is spent feeding the hungry but as soon as you feed the hungry the entire world implodes?Then they were happy while you fed them. What is the purpose of feeding the hungry? To bring joy and happyness to those who suffer. What is the purpose of living if you die? Some could argue that death is what gives life a purpose. It gives us a reason to get things done while we're still here :) . What is the purpose of suffering if there isn't joy? Actually, suffering wouldn't exist without joy, so I don't really get what you're trying to say. It wouldn't have a purpose because it simply wouldn't exist in the first place. And what is the purpose of joy if there wasn't suffering? See above. What is the purpose of light if there isn't dark? See above, substitute. What is the purpose of Atheism if there wasn't belief in God? See above, substitute. What is the purpose of jail if there weren't criminals? ... See above, again, substitute. What is the purpose of safety if there isn't danger? -_-" See above, substitute. What is the purpose of eating if your going to die? To... remain living :-s ? What is the purpose of working if you are going to die? To actually care about this life and what you do in it? What is the purpose of laughing if your are going to cry? Not being the most cynical, suicidal [bleep] on the face of the planet? This question both confuses and disturbs me. Are you saying you wouldn't laugh when you were happy because you're going to be sad some other time? What? [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonpost Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 You don't seem to realize what purpose is. Purpose is a driving force. But what is the sense of a driving force if it doesn't go anywhere? If your entire life is spent feeding the hungry but as soon as you feed the hungry the entire world implodes? What is the purpose of feeding the hungry? What is the purpose of living if you die? What is the purpose of suffering if there isn't joy? And what is the purpose of joy if there wasn't suffering? What is the purpose of light if there isn't dark? What is the purpose of Atheism if there wasn't belief in God? What is the purpose of jail if there weren't criminals? What is the purpose of safety if there isn't danger? What is the purpose of eating if your going to die? What is the purpose of working if you are going to die? What is the purpose of laughing if your are going to cry? What is the purpose of a beginning if there wasn't an end? Purpose always relates back to a higher reason. The purpose of eating is to live, but ultimately you are going to die. So what is the higher purpose of eating? Purpose is created by a necessity. Quite frankly, I think you are asking "why does anything happen at all"? To be perfectly honest, no one really knows the answer to that. There are some things that are simply not known (for now, at least). If die and happen to see god is really there (unlikely but possible), I'd like to ask him what his purpose is. Perhaps he created his own purpose. Why couldn't we humans do the same thing? You're looking for an end. But be honest with yourself. You aren't REALLY looking for an end. You're looking for another beginning. After all, if you finally fulfilled whatever ultimate purpose you had, you'd be left looking for another purpose to continue existing. Perhaps it is best that we are forever looking. Just throwing some things out there. :) Runescape Name: "unbug07"Expand your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plectrum Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 You fail to easy what higher purpose is. Purpose beyond death. That is why Atheism is so simple, its only concerned with the here and now. There is no ultimate purpose to life, there is no meaning to our existence. You keep arguing mundane aspects of life that don't even matter. There is only one thing that never dies, and that is ideas. Not power; not money; ideas. I don't understand why you keep arguing the mundane. Atheist believe there is no higher purpose. Face it. It's not my fault your faith is so boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 You fail to easy what higher purpose is. Purpose beyond death. That is why Atheism is so simple, its only concerned with the here and now. There is no ultimate purpose to life, there is no meaning to our existence. No, there is no universal purpose to our lives and existence- each one is unique. The fact that we all don't have the purpose does not make it impossible for each of us to have individual purposes. I don't understand why you keep arguing the mundane. Atheist believe there is no higher purpose. Face it. It's not my fault your faith is so boring. Well, I'm a boring guy. Sue me. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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