Is God real post your thoughts!

[insane]

however atheists can assign their own meaning to things.

 

 

 

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place?

 

 

 

If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it.

 

 

 

This may sound dumb, but why? What reason do you have to give your life a meaning other than for the sake of giving your life a meaning?

[warri0r45]

however atheists can assign their own meaning to things.

 

 

 

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place?

 

 

 

If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it.

 

 

 

This may sound dumb, but why? What reason do you have to give your life a meaning other than for the sake of giving your life a meaning?

 

 

 

I'm a human being. We tend to like to think we have purpose and meaning. I'm not a nihilist so I'll look for meaning and joy in my life where I see fit.

[Unoalexi]

however atheists can assign their own meaning to things.

 

 

 

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place?

 

 

 

If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it.

 

 

 

This may sound dumb, but why? What reason do you have to give your life a meaning other than for the sake of giving your life a meaning?

 

 

 

I'm a human being. We tend to like to think we have purpose and meaning. I'm not a nihilist so I'll look for meaning and joy in my life where I see fit.

 

 

 

But isn't it all simply a grand illusion? It's like your lieing to yourself about the black abyss that waits at the end... Nothing in this life will, at least to you, matter after you die. Doesn't this make you somewhat afraid of death?

[Evil_Sabre]

that's what separates a normal man who will be forgotten soon after his death from someone who dared to care that his contributions to society will make a difference and help the world, but unfortunately very few of those exist

[warri0r45]

however atheists can assign their own meaning to things.

 

 

 

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place?

 

 

 

If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it.

 

 

 

This may sound dumb, but why? What reason do you have to give your life a meaning other than for the sake of giving your life a meaning?

 

 

 

I'm a human being. We tend to like to think we have purpose and meaning. I'm not a nihilist so I'll look for meaning and joy in my life where I see fit.

 

 

 

But isn't it all simply a grand illusion? It's like your lieing to yourself about the black abyss that waits at the end... Nothing in this life will, at least to you, matter after you die. Doesn't this make you somewhat afraid of death?

 

It matters to me while I live. You're arguing an attitude which isn't mine. And no, I'm not afraid of death. You make it sound as if atheists are nihilistic, unstable shells of human beings.

[Plectrum]

When a Christian says he believes in God it means they believe in a very real person.

 

The Christian God is very real only in the eyes of a Christian.

 

Also, I'm surprised that you label God as a "person" -- a mere human.

 

 

 

 

 

I was referring to God as a person because He is personified in the bible.

[Unoalexi]

 

It matters to me while I live. You're arguing an attitude which isn't mine. And no, I'm not afraid of death. You make it sound as if atheists are nihilistic, unstable shells of human beings.

 

 

 

Woah there.. don't get all fussy at me, I was only curious as to what atheists thought of death. Nihilisticism vs. Atheism? I honest didn't know there was a difference..

[Nitramosma]

if the christian god is real, we do not have free will.

 

 

 

How many times will I have to disprove this very statement!

 

 

 

Imagine this situation

 

 

 

I've taken a person prisoner and starved them for 6 days. After those 6 days I put them in a room with a meal sitting on a table. I know that if I return in at most 2-3 hours that meal will have been eaten. I knew this, but I did not force him to eat that meal. It was his choice (free will) even though I knew what he would do (and example of prior knowledge which would be called omnipotence if I knew everything). Therefore my knowledge of his actions didn't mean that he didn't choose to make those actions. MEANING omnipotence does NOT negate free will.

 

I'm talking about predestination, not omnipotence.

 

 

 

Well thats even easier to disprove....Christians don't believe in predestination.

 

 

 

EDIT: Well...some do, like John Calvin (the founder of Calvinism) did, but that is hardly a reflection on the general perception of a Christian God

 

Predestination is in the bible. You're saying it's ok to pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to believe in?

 

Show me where it come from in the Bible (and which version) and I'll consider believing it. The reason I say consider it is because if it comes from the Old Testament then chances are it is outdated and only related to Jewish society of thousands of years ago. Also many "beliefs" found in the New Testament are merely single lines taken completely out of context. The reason I ask which version is because certain people edited the Bible to fit their particular needs, so one version may not be representative of all Christian beliefs.

 

Furthermore I think you can pick and choose. I'm a Catholic, but I'm also gay. That means I'm taking the overall meaning of something and using it to the benefit of my own life and others without paying much regard to the individual details of the system. I believe in the overall message of the Bible rather than every single detail contained therein.

[warri0r45]

 

It matters to me while I live. You're arguing an attitude which isn't mine. And no, I'm not afraid of death. You make it sound as if atheists are nihilistic, unstable shells of human beings.

 

 

 

Woah there.. don't get all fussy at me, I was only curious as to what atheists thought of death. Nihilisticism vs. Atheism? I honest didn't know there was a difference..

 

 

 

Perhaps you didn't know the the difference between atheism and nihilism because of your very god-centered view of things. To you no god means no meaning, right? An afterlife would make your life have meaning? Atheism is an absence of god-belief. Nihilism is a position that states life or being has no meaning or purpose. So from that I can only assume that to you, lack of god-belief means we think there is no meaning in life, which could only mean you think meaning in life only comes from god.

 

 

 

Ok, my turn to ask a question: Why is it that you only see life as meaningful if there is an afterlife and/or a supernatural being who dictates what that meaning is? You don't see the posibility of seeing meaning in living a life of charity, empathy, compassion, friendship, family, art and love? You don't see that we can form meaning ourselves independant of belief in something higher?

 

 

 

(this probably looks harsh but please, I'm not trying to get stuck into you.. too much :P )

[Nadril]

But isn't it all simply a grand illusion? It's like your lieing to yourself about the black abyss that waits at the end... Nothing in this life will, at least to you, matter after you die. Doesn't this make you somewhat afraid of death?

 

 

 

Wouldn't it matter to those who are still alive that knew you over the years? Likewise, wouldn't they pass down the memory of you down to further generations?

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know about you but I think that we have plenty of meaning even without there being an afterlife, and even without there being a god.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats what I think at least.

[Verminox]

If God created everything perfectly in 7 days, then why have we evolved?

[NorthernHero]

But isn't it all simply a grand illusion? It's like your lieing to yourself about the black abyss that waits at the end... Nothing in this life will, at least to you, matter after you die. Doesn't this make you somewhat afraid of death?

 

Why on earth would that make me afraid of death? After I die nothing matters, thats true.

 

What I don't understand about religious people is why they have to get some fact about afterlife so they can be 'safe'. The truth is they don't have any facts but their believs. Are these people so afraid of death? C'mon, what's there to be afraid of? I just don't get that. I admit I was scared of death when I was a child, but then I thought it over and got over it, and learned we got this life to live in, and what you do during it matters. The little moments. So what if its all gone some day, yesterdays gone already, you can't keep it.

 

I try to live in the moment. And to live in this life, not thinking about some afterlife, nobody has facts on. Ofcourse its ok to think about it, but, why start believing some religion or believs, when you don't have real knowledge about it.

[wildernessfreelancer]

And what was before God?

 

 

 

What kind of question is that? Nothing comes before God, because He is eternal. He is neither created nor destroyed. He's just there for all time, even before time existed, actually.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't find anything in BlueLancer's "scientific evidence" that disproves the existence of gods that were carved into statues.

 

 

 

Since he had said (refer to my previous post) that science proves adults have imaginary friends, you could do the logic yourself: That these imaginary friends, carved into statues, will be worshiped as "gods" in future.

 

 

 

Currently, science can't prove/disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster, either. We should assume that it too is another possibility. Really, we should assume that anything is possible.

 

 

 

WRONG. Science does prove that the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" did not exist. How? By saying that it's made up by the human imagination. Really, I would actually believe anyone who said that they can't see God, because it then overrules the "Human Imagination debunker".

 

 

 

I'm sure they will, in time. Nobody knows what the future holds in store for us.

 

 

 

Yeah, and if they managed to prove what happened before the Big Bang, then they would find God on the other end.

 

 

 

The big bang is just a theory, and it may very well prove to be incorrect. Already new theories are coming out as possible alternatives to the classic Big Bang theory, such as the Cyclic model.

 

 

 

The Cyclic model relies on the Big Bang and the Big Crunch. If the Big Bang theory is incorrect, then the Cyclic model will be incorrect as well. Besides, I don't see why God will make and destroy the universe in an infinite loop.

 

 

 

While we are on the subject of possibilities, it's possible that tomorrow the Flying Spaghetti Monster will materialize and destroy New York with His noodly appendages. Perhaps it will happen, perhaps it won't.

 

 

 

You prove something is possible when scientific evidence cannot prove nor disprove that possibility. The FSM has already been scientifically proven against its existence (By using the "Human Imagination debunker"). Other than that, you're just being cynical.

 

 

 

You know what I think? I think that you.... just lost. 8-)

[wildernessfreelancer]

if the christian god is real, we do not have free will.

 

 

 

Who is to say that we have free will in the first place? I'll give an example:

 

 

 

Person: Hey I have free will! I can do anything with my life, even live up to a hundred.

 

 

 

Actual: The person died (God took away his life) at 70.

 

 

 

Now, we can't even say that we own each of our lives. God gives life, God takes it away. That's how life and death exist. You don't create your own life, God gave it to you.

 

 

 

But then, what happens when you kill people? Sure, you can literally say that you took their lives, but why is it wrong to do so? God owns all our lives. If you take a person's life, you're in the wrong because you didn't give the person life to begin with.

 

 

 

But isn't it all simply a grand illusion? It's like your lieing to yourself about the black abyss that waits at the end... Nothing in this life will, at least to you, matter after you die. Doesn't this make you somewhat afraid of death?

 

 

 

So, yes, God created free will as well. In fact, God created everything.

[fakeitormakeit]

I think before anyone else posts, I think they should consider reading up on different religions and beliefs before they post lol.

[insane]

Ok, my turn to ask a question: Why is it that you only see life as meaningful if there is an afterlife and/or a supernatural being who dictates what that meaning is? You don't see the posibility of seeing meaning in living a life of charity, empathy, compassion, friendship, family, art and love? You don't see that we can form meaning ourselves independant of belief in something higher?

 

 

 

Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things.

[Unoalexi]

 

It matters to me while I live. You're arguing an attitude which isn't mine. And no, I'm not afraid of death. You make it sound as if atheists are nihilistic, unstable shells of human beings.

 

 

 

Woah there.. don't get all fussy at me, I was only curious as to what atheists thought of death. Nihilisticism vs. Atheism? I honest didn't know there was a difference..

 

 

 

Perhaps you didn't know the the difference between atheism and nihilism because of your very god-centered view of things. To you no god means no meaning, right? An afterlife would make your life have meaning? Atheism is an absence of god-belief. Nihilism is a position that states life or being has no meaning or purpose. So from that I can only assume that to you, lack of god-belief means we think there is no meaning in life, which could only mean you think meaning in life only comes from god.

 

 

 

Ok, my turn to ask a question: Why is it that you only see life as meaningful if there is an afterlife and/or a supernatural being who dictates what that meaning is?

 

God=meaning. What I do in this life affects me in the next.. It's as simple as that? -.-

 

 

 

 

 

You don't see the posibility of seeing meaning in living a life of charity, empathy, compassion, friendship, family, art and love? You don't see that we can form meaning ourselves independant of belief in something higher?

 

 

 

But what's the incentive to have all these things? To have meaning in your life? Isn't that a circular question..?

 

 

 

 

 

(this probably looks harsh but please, I'm not trying to get stuck into you.. too much :P )

[venomai]

And what was before God?

 

What kind of question is that? Nothing comes before God, because He is eternal. He is neither created nor destroyed. He's just there for all time, even before time existed, actually.

 

If you can apply that logic to God, why can't you apply it to the universe?

 

 

 

WRONG. Science does prove that the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" did not exist. How? By saying that it's made up by the human imagination. Really, I would actually believe anyone who said that they can't see God, because it then overrules the "Human Imagination debunker".

 

That's not science disproving the FSM, that's you saying he was made up. If I say God was made up, does that mean science disproves God? No.

 

If you can provide me with any scientific sources that directly disprove the existence of the FSM, then I will stand corrected.

 

 

 

The Cyclic model relies on the Big Bang and the Big Crunch. If the Big Bang theory is incorrect, then the Cyclic model will be incorrect as well.

 

Although the cyclic model incorporates certain concepts from the Big Bang theory, it does not fully depend on it.

 

 

 

The Big Bang theory suggests that the universe "starts" with a point of singularity (this is where God usually comes in) and that it will expand until an eventual "end" or destruction.

 

The Cyclic model suggests that there was no true "start" or "end" point to the universe.

 

 

 

If one day scientists prove that the universe could not have started or ended, thus disproving the Big Bang theory, it would only give rise to the cyclic model.

 

 

 

In any case, I'm not saying the cyclic model is flawless, but rather that it is "another possibility" we should at least consider.

 

 

 

 

 

You prove something is possible when scientific evidence cannot prove nor disprove that possibility. The FSM has already been scientifically proven against its existence (By using the "Human Imagination debunker"). Other than that, you're just being cynical.

 

See above. The FSM is no more imagined than the Judeo-Christian God.

 

 

 

You know what I think? I think that you.... just lost. 8-)

 

How mature... :-w

[Satenza]

Ok, my turn to ask a question: Why is it that you only see life as meaningful if there is an afterlife and/or a supernatural being who dictates what that meaning is? You don't see the posibility of seeing meaning in living a life of charity, empathy, compassion, friendship, family, art and love? You don't see that we can form meaning ourselves independant of belief in something higher?

 

 

 

Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things.

 

 

 

Its irrelevant as to whether meaning is absolute or truthful, it seems absurd for an atheist to say that seperate meanings to life can at the same time be bound together and be valid for all. Infact it sounds absurd for anyone to say that. Which leaves us with whether something externally places a meaning to our life which is possible, or whether we place meaning on our own lives. Either way we both discover that meaning internally. You discovered your faith internally, and therefore your meaning to life. Just as I may discover my meaning to life internally. Whether we like it or not that meaning does exist individuallly to ourselves. You may have faith that your meaning to life applies to everyone, however you are in the same sense doing what you said was absurd. Taking something individual and applying it to the universal.

 

 

 

Edit: Can that guy who bolds all the damn time stop, its annoying. I think you just lost if you argue like a sophist.

[venomai]

God=meaning. What I do in this life affects me in the next.. It's as simple as that?

 

There are some atheists who believe in the afterlife. Atheism, as has already been mentioned, only means disbelief in higher beings. It doesn't suggest anything to do with other aspects, such as meaning or afterlife.

 

 

 

But what's the incentive to have all these things? To have meaning in your life? Isn't that a circular question..?

 

Many atheists perform these acts for the benefit of those they are helping, and for themselves.

 

 

 

It would be selfish to only perform these acts of kindness to ensure your status in the afterlife.

 

 

 

But isn't it all simply a grand illusion? It's like your lieing to yourself about the black abyss that waits at the end... Nothing in this life will, at least to you, matter after you die. Doesn't this make you somewhat afraid of death?

 

Death is a natural part of human biology. Every living animal will die, it is utterly inevitable. What makes you so afraid of death?

 

 

 

And, although his death would not matter to him, it would matter a lot to those who knew him.

 

 

 

Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things.

 

For many atheists and theists alike, the absolute purpose of life is to simply enjoy it while it lasts.

 

 

 

What is the absolute purpose of playing Runescape? :-s

[Unoalexi]

God=meaning. What I do in this life affects me in the next.. It's as simple as that?

 

There are some atheists who believe in the afterlife. Atheism, as has already been mentioned, only means disbelief in higher beings. It doesn't suggest anything to do with other aspects, such as meaning or afterlife.

 

How can you have an afterlife without a god, or the supernatural for that matter..?? :-s

 

 

 

 

 

But what's the incentive to have all these things? To have meaning in your life? Isn't that a circular question..?

 

Many atheists perform these acts for the benefit of those they are helping, and for themselves.

 

 

 

It would be selfish to only perform these acts of kindness to ensure your status in the afterlife.

 

Some people are more selfish than others... These people need the afterlife and such to keep them from doing bad things. Other people simply do it to be nice, and the afterlife is simply a nice extra reward at the end..

 

[BlueLancer]

however atheists can assign their own meaning to things.

 

 

 

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place?

 

 

 

If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it.

 

 

 

This may sound dumb, but why? What reason do you have to give your life a meaning other than for the sake of giving your life a meaning?

 

 

 

I totally agree with insane on this issue. There isn't really a "reason" to give your life a meaning. In 200 or so years, unless you were extremely significant, nothing you've done will have any impact. You and me basically just wasted the resources on Earth, experienced some emotions and events, then died.

 

 

 

When people find out they are living for no reason, perhaps doing the same meaningless work from day to day, they strive to find a 'meaning' to their life.

 

 

 

One of the best ways to find meaning, IMO, is helping those who can't help themselves. Not because Jesus or anyone else did it, but because it's what I'd want somebody to do to myself if I was helpless.

 

 

 

Even if Jesus/Muhammad/Gautama Buddha weren't divine people or sons of God, did their existence mean anything? You can bet it did...

 

 

 

It inspired millions and millions of people to be like them and value other human beings, to behave morally, even if scared to their behaviour by threats of 'hell' and other methods of control (which frankly weren't taught by those people, but rather the people using their memory as a tool of forcing others). Their existence had a meaning.

[venomai]

How can you have an afterlife without a god, or the supernatural for that matter..?? :-s

 

Why do you feel the afterlife requires God? I personally don't see why God would be needed if there were to be an afterlife.

 

 

 

Some people are more selfish than others... These people need the afterlife and such to keep them from doing bad things.

 

If somebody truly wants to murder/steal/etc. the thought of the afterlife won't stop them.

 

 

 

In some cases the afterlife makes things worse. Take religious radicals, for example. Bombings and other terrorist attacks from these groups are often thought to ensure a "better" afterlife.

 

 

 

And I'm not just referring to radical Islam. Radical Christians are also very large problem, although it isn't as often exposed in the media.

 

http://www.commonplacebook.com/current_ ... terro.shtm

 

 

 

Other people simply do it to be nice, and the afterlife is simply a nice extra reward at the end..

 

If the afterlife is simply a "bonus" then why do you say life has no meaning without it?

[venomai]

I totally agree with insane on this issue. There isn't really a "reason" to give your life a meaning. In 200 or so years, unless you were extremely significant, nothing you've done will have any impact. You and me basically just wasted the resources on Earth, experienced some emotions and events, then died.

 

This isn't true, and it's a very cynical view on life.

 

 

 

You don't need to be a significant historical figure to affect others. Chances are you will affect a lot of people in your lifetime. Even if it's something as minor as donating to charity, loving your friends and family, or working hard at a job, you can still affect others.

[insane]

I totally agree with insane on this issue. There isn't really a "reason" to give your life a meaning. In 200 or so years, unless you were extremely significant, nothing you've done will have any impact. You and me basically just wasted the resources on Earth, experienced some emotions and events, then died.

 

This isn't true, and it's a very cynical view on life.

 

 

 

You don't need to be a significant historical figure to affect others. Chances are you will affect a lot of people in your lifetime. Even if it's something as minor as donating to charity, loving your friends and family, or working hard at a job, you can still affect others.

 

 

 

But what's the point of affecting others? It still sounds to me like it's all circular. You want to affect others for the sake of affecting others... have meaning and purpose for the sake of having meaning and purpose, etc.