Is God real post your thoughts!

[Harakiri]

I don't...I don't believe in nothin' but science...though I do believe in ghosts and reincarnation...

[Sly_Wizard]

I don't...I don't believe in nothin' but science...though I do believe in ghosts and reincarnation...

 

 

 

You're a scientologist? Cool! :mrgreen:

[BlueLancer]

I don't...I don't believe in nothin' but science...though I do believe in ghosts and reincarnation...

 

 

 

You're a scientologist? Cool! :mrgreen:

 

 

 

Really, I overlooked a few reports (actually quite a few) towards you (less) and wildernessfreelancer (more) for making spammy posts instead of contributing to the debate. Everyone should have a right to say their stance when a thing like religion is discussed.

 

 

 

But comments like that don't really make it seem like you care about other people's views much, other than trying to flame them. (Not that there's anything wrong with scientology though, just a religion amongst others, except a bit newer)

[fakeitormakeit]

this seems like a great thread, fight-a-palooza

 

 

 

I personally believe in an omniscent, all powerful being (I'm maronite) but I'm not going to go forcing my religion on others and then going up to an atheists and being a stupid little jackass by saying "haha, your going to hell" because frankly, the people who say stuff like that are idiots. I hate how some people say if your atheist or whatever your going to divine punishment, thats so stupid.

 

 

 

In my faith, I really like how one of the things is you can convert and be whatever religion but still attain heaven because as long as you truely believed in what you did and didn't harm others and did good then BAM, your just as good as any christian, jew or muslim.

 

 

 

Lastly I'd much rather have an atheist who knows what they're talking about then a catholic or anyone for that matter who just follows their religion just because they were told to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. And all the atheists (just because I say the word all does not mean all atheists, I'm saying all atheists who commit x action) that harass people who are those of religion can go hang, vice versa, mutual respect.

 

 

 

P.P.S.(I think) To each his own.

[venomai]

You're a scientologist? Cool! :mrgreen:

 

Heh, clever. :)

 

 

 

Really, I overlooked a few reports (actually quite a few) towards you (less) and wildernessfreelancer (more) for making spammy posts instead of contributing to the debate. Everyone should have a right to say their stance when a thing like religion is discussed.

 

You shouldn't be so concerned with minor spam/wit in a religious debate, it often helps ease the tension.

 

Your post is spam aswell, and doesn't contribute to the debate. It would have been much better suited in a PM. :-s

 

 

 

But how did "God" start?

 

And then what is God?

 

If the word god means: "giver of life" then our God must be the sun?

 

The sun obviously exists, so if the above is true, then there is a God.

 

What makes you think the sun "gave" us life? The sun is only one of the many contributing factors for life on Earth -- let alone human life on Earth.

[BlueLancer]

 

What makes you think the sun "gave" us life? The sun is only one of the many contributing factors for life on Earth -- let alone human life on Earth.

 

 

 

You can't blame all the early civilizations for worshipping the Sun as a god though. Life can be sustained in many forms.. But without the sun's light, nothing would exist or live for long.

 

 

 

And the Sun has been around for quite a few billion years now, before modern humans, let alone religion existed. Seems like an interesting theory, because the sun indeed is a life-giver on Earth.

[Ambassadar]

. We don't need to prove something 100% to be sure

 

 

 

Do you realize how bad a person that believed there was a God would get jumped for making a statement like this?

[darkmage099]

The *only* source which claims Jesus performed miracles are the scrolls and scriptures compiled in the Bible. There is no other account of eyewitnesses, contemporary historians or any roman government documents proving any miracles have been performed by him.

 

 

 

I said I was going to stop arguing with you, but I lied. I wanted to go bang my head against the wall when I read this :wall: Biblical cannon is a collection of prophecies, testimonies and eyewitness accounts of the miracles of Jesus. As I'm sure you're well aware, the Bible wasn't written by one-single authoratative figure.

 

 

 

Furthermore, why would the Roman government acknowledge any miracle by Jesus Christ, seeing as how Christianity (Well, it the Sect/Cult of Nazarene as it was known at the time) was considered a threat to the establishment of the Roman Empire and Jesus himself crucified on the grounds of trying to overthrow the Roman government? Wouldn't make any sense, now would it? :-k

 

 

 

 

 

Being an informed Christian that you are, you should know that the Bible was written 300 years after Jesus' death. This means it was already accepted by the Roman Empire.

 

 

 

 

 

There is actually evidence that the Romans wanted to glorify Jesus Christ. In fact, there were many scrolls and documents that called Jesus a normal man with an extraordinary message. These people were dismissed as heretics at the Council of Nicea. There was even a sect called Arianism (or something) where they believed Jesus to be a normal man. There was a strong case at the Council of Nicea, but Rome would not allow their people to follow an ordinary man. Therefore, they glorified him!

 

 

 

It all makes sense if you put it togher...not that I'm implying this is 100% correct.

[venomai]

You can't blame all the early civilizations for worshipping the Sun as a god though.

 

Of course. :) But we are more advanced than the early civilizations.

 

 

 

Science tells us that oxygen, water, chemical reactions, the atmosphere, etc. all contribute to life on Earth. Sunlight and solar energy does play a role, albeit not the only role.

 

 

 

Nature is God.

 

This seems more accurate than the idea of the Sun as God. But with this, you start to lose the meaning of the word "God". When God is everything and anything, it is no longer something special, since we are all God as well. When you get this general, I think the term God can be sort of misleading. :lol:

[warri0r45]

. We don't need to prove something 100% to be sure

 

 

 

Do you realize how bad a person that believed there was a God would get jumped for making a statement like this?

True, except god can't be tested beyond any reasonable doubt. Scientific hypotheses and in some cases theories can.

 

 

 

How could you possibly prove god to any degree based on tested hypotheses like you can natural phenomena? The only way I could think of is to hypothesise god by claiming ignorance of a natural phenomenon (i.e. existance itself or in past times life and in ancient times, the wind, the rain thunder and lightning, etc) and then claim that a god with the characteristics of being transcendent, infinite and all powerful, etc, did it. Problem is you can't test the hypotheses of the entities characteristics. In priniple I can show you the tested hypotheses that go some way to 'prove' the big bang theory yet it's impossible for the god hypothesis to be tested because you can't verify or falsify that god has the characteristics it's claimed he has.

[wildernessfreelancer]

 

I think you're misunderstanding the point of a "religious debate". Most of us aren't trying to prove God through scientific means. Rather, we are voicing our opinions and doing our best to get others to agree with us.

 

 

 

Religious debates help broaden your knowledge and open your mind to different viewpoints. :) I feel more enlightened every time I participate in one.

 

 

 

That's my problem with religious debates :D There is barely ever an exchange of facts and opinions can be incredibally silly at times. For what it's worth, I do believe in a God, as my own existance is far to mindboggling to contemplate without one.

 

 

 

Edit - I still enjoy thinking about the bigger questions though, where did we come from etc. A God just seems like the best explanation at the moment. Everything and nothing (life and death/ creation of the Universe) is a really hard concept and God makes it slightly easier, as there is still something when nothing is there.

 

 

 

 

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you! *Hugs Ragen* . You just saved me from repeating what you're saying in a different form.

[wildernessfreelancer]

I don't...I don't believe in nothin' but science...though I do believe in ghosts and reincarnation...

 

 

 

You're a scientologist? Cool! :mrgreen:

 

 

 

Really, I overlooked a few reports (actually quite a few) towards you (less) and wildernessfreelancer (more) for making spammy posts instead of contributing to the debate. Everyone should have a right to say their stance when a thing like religion is discussed.

 

 

 

But comments like that don't really make it seem like you care about other people's views much, other than trying to flame them. (Not that there's anything wrong with scientology though, just a religion amongst others, except a bit newer)

 

 

 

I feel offended. :notalk:

[Adventurer]

Before I even try to enter the discussion, I have a few questions:

 

 

 

Who (which God) are we arguing about? Not every God is the same. Yes, the Christian God is different from say...the God of Orthodox Judaism and etc etc.

 

 

 

There (in the first 8 pgs that I read) seems to be a neverending cycle of no-God people trying to enforce logic on an omni-potent/present/scient God who made everything. How does this work, exactly? (neutral question. Don't assume that I'm asking in any kind of sarcastic tone)

 

 

 

I can see how both sides are arguing (upto the end of those 8 pages), and neither side seems to be talking about the same thing, and some people on the same sides don't even seem to be discussing the same god or God. Infact, a lot of people seem to be trying to talk about the Christian God but have a very, very skewed view of him. So very skewed. Laughably skewed. Also, some seem to be talking about a totally random god

 

 

 

Oh, and I laugh at all of you who post something along the lines of "religion is just something that people believe because they want to" or something irrelevant like that. Stop posting that stuff.

[wildernessfreelancer]

Omg this is all too funny. :lol: I mean, this thread is about voicing out your opinion (whether God is real or not), and not about criticizing other people for doing so. Also, the thread is " Is God real? Post your thoughts!" , not "Is God real? Post the facts!" (Not that anyone has the fact to make this all right/wrong to begin with.) I just don't understand why some people just HAVE to say whether people's opinion are right/wrong (usually the latter). The point is to stop criticizing-slash-flaming people just because YOU think their opinion is flawed. 8-) =D>

 

 

 

Situation 1.

 

 

 

Person1: I think god is real. *heavenly sound appears*

 

Others: Alright, we respect your beliefs. :thumbsup:

 

Person2: I think god does not exist. *heavenly sound abruptly ends*

 

Others: Alright, we respect your beliefs. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Situation 2.

 

 

 

Person 1: I think god is rea-

 

Others: WRONG, [bleep} ! God does not exist 'cause there's no scientific evidence (and so on and so on).

 

Person 1: ........

 

Person 2: I think god's not re-

 

Others: OF COURSE GOD IS REAL [bleep] , all the proof is everything in this universe (and so on and so on).

 

Person 2: .........

 

 

 

Hey, people don't post 'cause they want to be flamed, ya know. Why can't you flamers (as a HUMAN BEING) refrain from criticizing others just because you think something's wrong with it? You want to know WHY? It's because it hurts other people's feelings, that's WHY.

 

 

 

If you want to find out if god is real/not real, you should go to a religious seminar/class/debate instead of finding out what you want to know HERE. This is just a thought thread, not a "prove that god is real" thread. Hell, I don't know why it turned to a DEBATE in the first place!

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I'm sure that any human being in their right minds will choose situation 1 instead of situation 2.

 

 

 

If you get my point, laugh with me. If you don't get my point, read this post again and again and again until you do. Then laugh with me. 8-)

[Adventurer]

^

 

Sorry dude, but you're being a bit emotional there. This isn't exactly a flamefest (for the most part), and is (mostly) a discussion. You're telling us to just live with our own opinions?

 

 

 

If you really care that much, please put up a better reason than "it hurts other people's feelings", because I don't think the serious debaters here are out to do so. Infact, I would say that a reason not to debate here is that there isn't a mediator, we're not professional theologians and junk, etc.

[Xx_Flare_xX]

I don't think there is a God, but how were we all created in the first place? and if God is real who created him?

[warri0r45]

Before I even try to enter the discussion, I have a few questions:

 

 

 

Who (which God) are we arguing about? Not every God is the same. Yes, the Christian God is different from say...the God of Orthodox Judaism and etc etc.

 

 

 

There (in the first 8 pgs that I read) seems to be a neverending cycle of no-God people trying to enforce logic on an omni-potent/present/scient God who made everything. How does this work, exactly? (neutral question. Don't assume that I'm asking in any kind of sarcastic tone)

 

 

 

I can see how both sides are arguing (upto the end of those 8 pages), and neither side seems to be talking about the same thing, and some people on the same sides don't even seem to be discussing the same god or God. Infact, a lot of people seem to be trying to talk about the Christian God but have a very, very skewed view of him. So very skewed. Laughably skewed. Also, some seem to be talking about a totally random god

 

 

 

Oh, and I laugh at all of you who post something along the lines of "religion is just something that people believe because they want to" or something irrelevant like that. Stop posting that stuff.

 

 

 

If you claim he's outside logic then there's no point even talking about it is there? The interesting thing is any attempt you use to logically deduce a god and/or any of his characteristics or understand him at all would see you at a dead end because 'he's outside of logic'. How can your feeble brain comprehend or even state that he has characteristics x, y, z and he did a, b, c? Methinks your brain would have to string together some logic there, yeah? Sorry, that to me is just a royal cop out.

[wildernessfreelancer]

^

 

Sorry dude, but you're being a bit emotional there. This isn't exactly a flamefest (for the most part), and is (mostly) a discussion. You're telling us to just live with our own opinions?

 

 

 

If you really care that much, please put up a better reason than "it hurts other people's feelings", because I don't think the serious debaters here are out to do so. Infact, I would say that a reason not to debate here is that there isn't a mediator, we're not professional theologians and junk, etc.

 

 

 

First off, let me make this clear to you that I'm not criticizing/flaming you in this post. This post is just to answer your question. (Bolded)

 

 

 

No, I'm not telling you to live with your own opinion. It's your choice. If you want to seriously discuss God's existence, I suggest you watch a real debate and not look for answers here (in this thread).

[Adventurer]

^

 

Yeah, and I don't see any way around that cop-out...unless you can show me one. The thing is, God as we seem to be trying to talk about him is the spiritual God that can't be proven by the 5 senses and stuff, so I'm really unsure as to what logic's going to do except show that it can neither prove nor disprove God...unless you're trying to disprove something like a Bible's description of a certain God/god by falsifying each God/god's respective Bible. Yeah, methinks that my sleep-deprived brain is confused too : .

[wildernessfreelancer]

there are those few things in life that cannot be explained by science/logic/rationality. An example : What happened before the Big Bang theory. No one knows for sure the answer to that. Well then, isn't it possible that you can throw in "God theory" before the Big Bang theory? (Assuming that "God" is a singular, invisible super-entity.) It's a possibility.

 

 

 

That's exactly what me and just about everyone else were saying. Of course it's possible a God/1.gods could've set particles and atoms in motion or created matter. 2.Maybe even the infamous, invisible pink unicorn did so. I can't disprove that.

 

 

 

3.You were implying you have some hidden knowledge, that you know "the soul and afterlife are proven scientifically" and other not-even-pseudo-scientific ramblings.

 

 

You have a right to your opinion, 4.but don't expect people to just swallow so called "B.S" without evaluating your facts. You can't just say in a debate "I know afterlife is a scientific fact and it exists". You have no sources, documentation or any evidence supporting your claim.

 

 

 

 

 

1. If there's such a thing as GODS creating the universe, I highly doubt the universe would exist as it is today. Have you ever heard of a power struggle? Aka, there should be chaos instead of earth being killed slowly by mankind today. In fact, the universe couldn't exist if there was a power struggle (it would be ripped apart if it does).

 

 

 

2. Have you ever heard of the Law of Creation? This means that the creator does not, and will never be the same as what the creator created. (For you, it means that no "pink unicorn" or other things created by the human imagination created the universe). If you insist on me giving an example, here it is: Humans create poop. Poop does not look like humans. (Pardon, that was a crude example.)

 

 

 

Do you really think that God would have created something like Him? Well then, I don't see any human being with God-like powers creating stuff out of thin air. And if there's even a human with god-like powers, wouldn't he be fighting with god for all eternity? Again, look at 1.

 

See the relation here?

 

 

 

3. It's just amazing what people would do to defend their beliefs, isn't it? You started flaming my beliefs without provocation, just because you think I'm "easy prey". I was just defending my beliefs out of desperation, because I don't think I would come under attack just by posting my beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

4. I wasn't expecting people to swallow anything at all in this thread. I was just posting my beliefs. There's nothing wrong with that.[/i]

[warri0r45]

^

 

Yeah, and I don't see any way around that cop-out...unless you can show me one. The thing is, God as we seem to be trying to talk about him is the spiritual God that can't be proven by the 5 senses and stuff, so I'm really unsure as to what logic's going to do except show that it can neither prove nor disprove God...unless you're trying to disprove something like a Bible's description of a certain God/god by falsifying each God/god's respective Bible. Yeah, methinks that my sleep-deprived brain is confused too : .

 

 

 

The whole broad concept of god is a cop out to me as there's absolutely no way to meaninfully prove or disprove it. All you rely on are what you'd like to assume his characteristics are and faith in your chosen perception of god and to me, the idea that someone can conclude the truth in something based solely on the notion that we think it would be dandy and explain something is nonsense, but that's just me. I'm the kind of guy that requires some sort of answer tested against reality. But yeah, I suppose you can argue against perceptions of god based on a strict interpretation of a holy book.

[pati]

I don't think there's a god. Some people think there is, that's why they BELIEVE in it.

[fakeitormakeit]

The *only* source which claims Jesus performed miracles are the scrolls and scriptures compiled in the Bible. There is no other account of eyewitnesses, contemporary historians or any roman government documents proving any miracles have been performed by him.

 

 

 

I said I was going to stop arguing with you, but I lied. I wanted to go bang my head against the wall when I read this :wall: Biblical cannon is a collection of prophecies, testimonies and eyewitness accounts of the miracles of Jesus. As I'm sure you're well aware, the Bible wasn't written by one-single authoratative figure.

 

 

 

Furthermore, why would the Roman government acknowledge any miracle by Jesus Christ, seeing as how Christianity (Well, it the Sect/Cult of Nazarene as it was known at the time) was considered a threat to the establishment of the Roman Empire and Jesus himself crucified on the grounds of trying to overthrow the Roman government? Wouldn't make any sense, now would it? :-k

 

 

 

 

 

Being an informed Christian that you are, you should know that the Bible was written 300 years after Jesus' death. This means it was already accepted by the Roman Empire.

 

 

 

 

 

There is actually evidence that the Romans wanted to glorify Jesus Christ. In fact, there were many scrolls and documents that called Jesus a normal man with an extraordinary message. These people were dismissed as heretics at the Council of Nicea. There was even a sect called Arianism (or something) where they believed Jesus to be a normal man. There was a strong case at the Council of Nicea, but Rome would not allow their people to follow an ordinary man. Therefore, they glorified him!

 

 

 

It all makes sense if you put it togher...not that I'm implying this is 100% correct.

 

 

 

1. The Bible was techinally started after abraham(old testament), and if your talking about the new testament its 80 years not 300, and the Romans began persecuting the Christian in about 100, therefore whatever you said, no.

 

 

 

2. If your Christian why wouldn't you believe in it? As I always say I'd rather have an atheist who knows what their talking about then a catholic who has no freakin' clue why he believes in God other then his mommy told him (btw I'm maronite catholic).

[BlueLancer]

 

1. If there's such a thing as GODS creating the universe, I highly doubt the universe would exist as it is today. Have you ever heard of a power struggle? Aka, there should be chaos instead of earth being killed slowly by mankind today. In fact, the universe couldn't exist if there was a power struggle (it would be ripped apart if it does).

 

 

 

Tell that on national TV to the 1 billion hindus (about 1/6th of the world's population) who do believe so. Also, according to your logic, so many people can't just believe in a human creation, therefore it must be true.

 

 

 

Let me remind what you said a few pages earlier: (If you don't believe me, search it yourself, I'd especially like you to read this 3rd quote by you)

 

 

 

So really, Santa Claus and the tooth fairy are not related with God 'cause they are imaginary. You can't say that about God as 7 billion people believe in Him with seriousness and not for amusement.

 

 

 

I'm not appealing to popularity, the numbers are just statistics. The argumentum- Latin- thingy? That's just an excuse to hinder us from the facts. Is it wrong for the majority of the people to believe in something that is credible?

 

 

 

 

Who are you to say that the people in the past "made up God" and that story survives until today, somehow for some absurd reason? The thing is, it can't survive. The only reason why people believe in God from the past until today is because He is real. People are not stupid enough to believe in creatures made up by the human mind, which proves that God is not made up by humans.

 

 

 

Ok, besides the fact that 7 billion people don't believe in God (click link to see the number of adherents per each religion) and the fact 16% of the world's population has no religion whatsoever...

 

 

 

Your opinions don't really match. By your logic, the 1 billion+ hindus are right in believing there are many gods, because that many people can't just be stupid enough to believe in creatures made up by the human minds. Thus, the gods they believe in are real.

 

 

 

But, also by your logic, the 1 billion+ muslims who believe there is only ONE god and a divine messenger called Muhammad, are also right, because that many people surely couldn't just believe in a creation of human mind.

 

 

 

Which one is wrong and which one is right then?

[Satenza]

 

The whole broad concept of god is a cop out to me as there's absolutely no way to meaninfully prove or disprove it. All you rely on are what you'd like to assume his characteristics are and faith in your chosen perception of god and to me, the idea that someone can conclude the truth in something based solely on the notion that we think it would be dandy and explain something is nonsense, but that's just me. I'm the kind of guy that requires some sort of answer tested against reality. But yeah, I suppose you can argue against perceptions of god based on a strict interpretation of a holy book.

 

 

 

This is why a belief in God is internal and inexpressible, if you are looking for a way to logically describe a personÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s faith or them to tell you why they think their belief is true in this sense, then you will misunderstand this concept. You may regard something which does not reflect the logical world as a ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åcop outÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ