Is God real post your thoughts!

[Furah]

to those who ask "if God loves us, why did he create hell?" my answer is this:

 

Hell was never intended for humans, but instead Satan and his followers (those 'fallen' angels, aka demons) but since Adam and Eve were decieved by Satan they 'joined' in with the Kingdom of Satan rather than the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

 

 

Which brings me to the next question "why does God let all this bad stuff happen in this world?"

 

Simply because we have allowed sin to enter the world (once again from Adam and Eve) {about as much as I can talk about on the subject unfortunately}

 

 

 

another question I get asked alot is "why must I pay for Adam and Eve's sins?"

 

Well actually believe it or not you are actually you are paying for your sins, as I can guarantee all of you have sinned, yet as a child or younger you are considered to be saved until you reach the point where you can make your own decision on whether or not to follow God, and you become responsible for your sins and are free to choose whether or not you follow God.

 

 

 

Please, I beg of you to not base christianity off people who say they are christian, but aren't they are worse then those who defy God, because they put people into the belief that they are 'saved' yet are not.

 

 

 

If anyone is interested to know more about the christianity that you may not know (yes christianity does vary alot, in my church we have elderly people jumping about and they do like the mordern songs we listen to, we have one guy who writes all the songs we sing too, it's mad fun : ) I'll be glad to share my knowledge with you, if anyone is interested in becoming a christian, I'd be happy to talk with you aswell. I will pray to God that more of my friends at TIF get saved, because I don't want to see my friends go to hell, I'd just feel so responsible for it :cry:

[monkeyboo2]

I will pray to God that more of my friends at TIF get saved, because I don't want to see my friends go to hell, I'd just feel so responsible for it :cry:

 

 

 

Well I will hope that you convert to atheism, because I wouldn't want more of the people on TIF to live under the false hope of a second life in heaven (amongst other problems), and not be able to fully appreciate their first (and only) life to the full.

 

 

 

I'd feel...

 

Actually no I wouldn't feel responsible for it. But its a shame anyway. :cry:

[Agunimon979]

I still believe that christians are basing their life on a book written by crazy, wandering desert nomads hallucinating their staffs are snakes and talking to bushes.

[Lenticular_J]

And as for the tornado story, did you perhaps misjudge the size/power of the tornado. It is almost impossible to predict its size and power when it is up close; partly because of adrenaline/fear, partly because you can not see its edges (you can just feel the hurling wind). I'm just saying, maybe it wasn't that dangerous a tornado.

 

I've looked it up, it was a size F-2, near F-3. For those of you illiterate with tornadoes, that's about 100-150 mph winds.

 

 

 

Monkey, who says we don't appreciate our life? Have you ever been to a southern Baptist revival? One of the most lively experiences in the world.

 

 

 

How am I suppose to know how that child would feel, True? What if you were about to be shot, would you pray to the Earth to deliver a tree and bash the gunman away? I can't tell how someone else would feel, and for the most part, how I would feel. I doubt you can, either.

 

 

 

And Ag, you're basing your life on hating people (ignorantly) for their religion.

 

 

 

Whew, that got a bit personal. I apologize.

[Agunimon979]

I don't hate people for their religion, I have a few muslim, jewish and Buddhist friends (this is Connecticut, you get people from everywhere) that I don't mind for their religion. But I hate the kind of the christians that make that show God Rules.

 

 

 

Edit: Wow, that show God Rules is apparently so unimportant it doesn't even have a wiki -_- nice job christians.

[Lenticular_J]

So you hate over a billion people because under a hundred of them make a stupid show?

[assassin_696]

another question I get asked alot is "why must I pay for Adam and Eve's sins?"

 

Well actually believe it or not you are actually you are paying for your sins, as I can guarantee all of you have sinned, yet as a child or younger you are considered to be saved until you reach the point where you can make your own decision on whether or not to follow God, and you become responsible for your sins and are free to choose whether or not you follow God.

 

 

 

Sorry, but that just seems like a bit of a leap of faith for me. Are you saying babies are born with inherited original sin? We all grow up in the world around us, i'm sure many children do "sin" but surely a newly born baby can't have sinned, yet they still enter into a world of death and imperfections.

[Lenticular_J]

I don't believe in that, either. As in, I suppose I can believe the Adam and Eve story in a way. Our free will is used in bad ways, and certain people ruin the whole world, but God can't do anything. Could always say that's why children are so innocent.

 

 

 

Or their brains are underdeveloped, whatever floats your boat, I guess.

[monkeyboo2]

So you hate over a billion people because under a hundred of them make a stupid show?

 

 

 

I believe his words were 'I hate the kind of the christians that make that show God Rules.' which does not mean all Christians, it just means a select few.

 

 

 

And me personally; I don't hate people for being religous- but when they intrude on my rights/any body elses rights based on their unproved assumptions (which is far more often than its credited for) I go up in arms against it which has made me very sensitive on the whole topic.

 

And yes, it does make me sleep a little less soundly, knowing that people will believe some of that stuff.

 

 

 

For the most part I try not to get into religous debates with religous people IRL anyway because I know that they'll never convert thanks to the stubborn defence mechanism of faith (and various other equally weightless counter-arguments) but if they want me to give money to an organisation which supports irrationallity (amongst other problems which I have with it); depending on my mood- i'll give them a good skinning.

 

 

 

So no I effectively don't hate any Christians in any way which effects them (most of them are just caught up unfortunately in the whole endocrtination thing anyway- it's not their fault), but I will vent my frustration online at the beliefs which are forced upon them and the stubborness with which they defend them.

[Lenticular_J]

What are your beliefs, then? If they're so much haughtier (would that be the correct word? Synonym of "grand"?) then Christianity, and have so much more obvious rationality, I'd like to know.

 

 

 

Beliefs are forced on us? No, no, no. If anything, the general atheist I meet is only an atheist because they want to be a rebel (not talking about you folks, you put up a good debate for the most part). Whereas my Christian friends have all looked deeply into their religion, some of whom converted to Christianity from their parents.

 

 

 

Agunimon's words were:"Wow, that show God Rules is apparently so unimportant it doesn't even have a wiki -_- nice job christians." That last part (and a few posts that occurred earlier) makes me think of Christians in general, though I may be wrong.

 

 

 

I don't enjoy organized religion, either, but I don't believe paying ten dollars to help rebuild a church as anything bad. Or giving money into collection during church, it all goes to various good causes at the few churches I've visited.

 

 

 

Nothing can be proven in the universe in general. On our planet and perhaps in our solar system our brains' concepts of logic and rationality can be everywhere. But farther out into the universe, illogicality and irrationality abound.

 

 

 

If my beliefs make me stubborn, so be it. What's your excuse?

[RyderJ]

Stubborn? No, skeptic.

 

 

 

At the rest of your post, we know that not all Christians are like Phelps or whatever. That's why we don't hate you, just the people in your religion that prove themselves to be jackasses. Sure, we may call Fundies "Christians" glibly, but that's not exactly a blanket term. If you want respect, you get it (or... not) from your own actions.

[Agunimon979]

So you hate over a billion people because under a hundred of them make a stupid show?

 

 

 

No read my [bleep] post correctly next time dont just skim your eyes over it.

[Lenticular_J]

Stubborn? No, skeptic.

 

 

 

At the rest of your post, we know that not all Christians are like Phelps or whatever. That's why we don't hate you, just the people in your religion that prove themselves to be jackasses. Sure, we may call Fundies "Christians" glibly, but that's not exactly a blanket term. If you want respect, you get it (or... not) from your own actions.

 

That's a bit of a double standard. When others (and I, to some extent) have generalized atheists in the past, they were immediately rebuked. Yet, you seem to believe it's perfectly fine for your own uses. (I've not seen you rebuke the generalizations, only others)

[RyderJ]

But that's what I'm saying here. All generalizations are bad ideas. I *know* that not all Christians hate gays and blacks, which is what my post just then was saying.

 

 

 

Or am I not catching the point of what you just said? Because to me it sounded like you just said the same thing as my point.

[Lenticular_J]

I suppose I was saying the same thing, but from my point of view.

[RyderJ]

Then what was the hostility towards me for? You said I was "perfectly fine with it". But I'm trying to defend your opinion here.

 

 

 

As my post a few pages back made clear, I have good reason to stay prejudiced against your religion, but I'm not, because I'm angry at their prejudice in the first place.

[Furah]

another question I get asked alot is "why must I pay for Adam and Eve's sins?"

 

Well actually believe it or not you are actually you are paying for your sins, as I can guarantee all of you have sinned, yet as a child or younger you are considered to be saved until you reach the point where you can make your own decision on whether or not to follow God, and you become responsible for your sins and are free to choose whether or not you follow God.

 

 

 

Sorry, but that just seems like a bit of a leap of faith for me. Are you saying babies are born with inherited original sin? We all grow up in the world around us, i'm sure many children do "sin" but surely a newly born baby can't have sinned, yet they still enter into a world of death and imperfections.

 

 

 

I am not to sure on whether a baby inherits sin, but take a look at toddlers (who I was reffering to when I said younger) they will often scream and disobey their parents, they always want to have the best/be the best, I often get annoyed at this, not only because they shouldn't do it, but also because it reminds me of how much I was like them as a toddler :oops:

 

 

 

I will pray to God that more of my friends at TIF get saved, because I don't want to see my friends go to hell, I'd just feel so responsible for it :cry:

 

 

 

Well I will hope that you convert to atheism, because I wouldn't want more of the people on TIF to live under the false hope of a second life in heaven (amongst other problems), and not be able to fully appreciate their first (and only) life to the full.

 

 

 

I'd feel...

 

Actually no I wouldn't feel responsible for it. But its a shame anyway. :cry:

 

 

 

not live our lives to the full? are you kidding me? trust me when I say God can take you places you never dreamed you could have gone. We are people, like you. Yeah, we don't go around swearing, getting drunk, doing drugs and being violent, but if that is something that we are 'missing out on' I think I would prefer to miss out on it actually. Some things you miss out on is miracles, healings, saving people and releasing demons from people (no I haven't be confronted by a possessed person yet)

[NoMoreDead]

 

not live our lives to the full? are you kidding me? trust me when I say God can take you places you never dreamed you could have gone. We are people, like you. Yeah, we don't go around swearing, getting drunk, doing drugs and being violent, but if that is something that we are 'missing out on' I think I would prefer to miss out on it actually. Some things you miss out on is miracles, healings, saving people and releasing demons from people (no I haven't be confronted by a possessed person yet)

 

 

 

Let me put it to you this way. We believe that you are not living your lives to the fullest because we feel as though you are wasting your time worrying about what an invisible man in the sky thinks about you. We find it to be a waste of life, as well as a giant waste of time to worship a being who never began, and will never end. A being who knows all, and is all powerful, defying all logic. A being for which there is no explanation, nor any signs of proof regaurding his/her existance. This is why we feel you are "Wasting your life" or "Not living it to the fullest".

 

 

 

Another thing I don't understand is why you just assume that living life to the fullest means "Doing drugs, drinking, and being violent". That seems to be an attack with an unfounded basis.

 

 

 

As for your idea of what we're "Missing out on", all miracles, healings, and exorcisms are usually either fradulent, or are placebo effects. Nothing so supernaturally profound has happened to disprove any of the scientific or naturalistic explanations for these "Miracles" already laid down by modern science. Sorry, but we're not missing out on anything important.

 

 

 

Remember, the unexplained is NOT proof of the supernatural. It is simply a situation where a well founded naturalistic explanation hasn't been found yet. So far, nothing we've encountered on this planet is concrete proof of god. It's all founded on belief.

 

 

 

Sorry, I just cannot believe something this profound without proof being put in front of me. So far, a no go.

[monkeyboo2]

[hide=]

 

not live our lives to the full? are you kidding me? trust me when I say God can take you places you never dreamed you could have gone. We are people, like you. Yeah, we don't go around swearing, getting drunk, doing drugs and being violent, but if that is something that we are 'missing out on' I think I would prefer to miss out on it actually. Some things you miss out on is miracles, healings, saving people and releasing demons from people (no I haven't be confronted by a possessed person yet)

 

 

 

Let me put it to you this way. We believe that you are not living your lives to the fullest because we feel as though you are wasting your time worrying about what an invisible man in the sky thinks about you. We find it to be a waste of life, as well as a giant waste of time to worship a being who never began, and will never end. A being who knows all, and is all powerful, defying all logic. A being for which there is no explanation, nor any signs of proof regaurding his/her existance. This is why we feel you are "Wasting your life" or "Not living it to the fullest".

 

 

 

Another thing I don't understand is why you just assume that living life to the fullest means "Doing drugs, drinking, and being violent". That seems to be an attack with an unfounded basis.

 

 

 

As for your idea of what we're "Missing out on", all miracles, healings, and exorcisms are usually either fradulent, or are placebo effects. Nothing so supernaturally profound has happened to disprove any of the scientific or naturalistic explanations for these "Miracles" already laid down by modern science. Sorry, but we're not missing out on anything important.

 

 

 

Remember, the unexplained is NOT proof of the supernatural. It is simply a situation where a well founded naturalistic explanation hasn't been found yet. So far, nothing we've encountered on this planet is concrete proof of god. It's all founded on belief.

 

 

 

Sorry, I just cannot believe something this profound without proof being put in front of me. So far, a no go.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Thank you Nomore dead; pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

 

 

Now, as for the

 

Yeah, we don't go around swearing, getting drunk, doing drugs and being violent, but if that is something that we are 'missing out on' I think I would prefer to miss out on it actually.

 

 

 

Now this is the perception problem. Many Christian churches/schools make Atheists out to be evil and misguided (to scare them away from it without letting them really consider it) and I think we can see the results of that here.

 

Its also part of the false perception that being Christian instantly means that you're a good person, and that everybody else is morally inferior/misguided.

 

 

 

That is obviously not reallity, despite how hard people try to defend it.

 

Think of the case of the video where a Christian American Soldier throws a puppy off a cliff. Christians were instantly disowning him and saying that he was not Christian just so they could keep the facade that all Christians were morally perfect.

 

but that guy was a Christian- he was raised as a Christian, and is still a Christian...

 

And agreed this is just one example but i'm sure I could find thousands more of Bad Christians :shock: but thats not saying that there aren't equally proportional amounts of Bad Atheists.

 

The point is that whether you like it or not, being a Christian does not make you a good person by default and being an Atheist does not make you a good person by default. Everybody is morally equal.

 

 

 

So get rid of your silly stereotypes of 'Halo Shining Christian' and 'Evil Druggy Atheist' and break back into reallity; you can do it even if your lines between reallity and fantasy are a little blurred.

 

 

 

PS isn't it obvious to you why the Church portrays Atheists as evil; its clearly not because they actually are evil, but because the Church does not want you to leave Christianity. In my books, that is called 'LYING for SELF GAIN' which isn't morally correct.

[x1992x]

[hide=]

 

not live our lives to the full? are you kidding me? trust me when I say God can take you places you never dreamed you could have gone. We are people, like you. Yeah, we don't go around swearing, getting drunk, doing drugs and being violent, but if that is something that we are 'missing out on' I think I would prefer to miss out on it actually. Some things you miss out on is miracles, healings, saving people and releasing demons from people (no I haven't be confronted by a possessed person yet)

 

 

 

Let me put it to you this way. We believe that you are not living your lives to the fullest because we feel as though you are wasting your time worrying about what an invisible man in the sky thinks about you. We find it to be a waste of life, as well as a giant waste of time to worship a being who never began, and will never end. A being who knows all, and is all powerful, defying all logic. A being for which there is no explanation, nor any signs of proof regaurding his/her existance. This is why we feel you are "Wasting your life" or "Not living it to the fullest".

 

 

 

Another thing I don't understand is why you just assume that living life to the fullest means "Doing drugs, drinking, and being violent". That seems to be an attack with an unfounded basis.

 

 

 

As for your idea of what we're "Missing out on", all miracles, healings, and exorcisms are usually either fradulent, or are placebo effects. Nothing so supernaturally profound has happened to disprove any of the scientific or naturalistic explanations for these "Miracles" already laid down by modern science. Sorry, but we're not missing out on anything important.

 

 

 

Remember, the unexplained is NOT proof of the supernatural. It is simply a situation where a well founded naturalistic explanation hasn't been found yet. So far, nothing we've encountered on this planet is concrete proof of god. It's all founded on belief.

 

 

 

Sorry, I just cannot believe something this profound without proof being put in front of me. So far, a no go.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Thank you Nomore dead; pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

 

 

Now, as for the

 

Yeah, we don't go around swearing, getting drunk, doing drugs and being violent, but if that is something that we are 'missing out on' I think I would prefer to miss out on it actually.

 

 

 

Now this is the perception problem. Many Christian churches/schools make Atheists out to be evil and misguided (to scare them away from it without letting them really consider it) and I think we can see the results of that here.

 

Its also part of the false perception that being Christian instantly means that you're a good person, and that everybody else is morally inferior/misguided.

 

 

 

That is obviously not reallity, despite how hard people try to defend it.

 

Think of the case of the video where a Christian American Soldier throws a puppy off a cliff. Christians were instantly disowning him and saying that he was not Christian just so they could keep the facade that all Christians were morally perfect.

 

but that guy was a Christian- he was raised as a Christian, and is still a Christian...

 

And agreed this is just one example but i'm sure I could find thousands more of Bad Christians :shock: but thats not saying that there aren't equally proportional amounts of Bad Atheists.

 

The point is that whether you like it or not, being a Christian does not make you a good person by default and being an Atheist does not make you a good person by default. Everybody is morally equal.

 

 

 

So get rid of your silly stereotypes of 'Halo Shining Christian' and 'Evil Druggy Atheist' and break back into reallity; you can do it even if your lines between reallity and fantasy are a little blurred.

 

 

 

PS isn't it obvious to you why the Church portrays Atheists as evil; its clearly not because they actually are evil, but because the Church does not want you to leave Christianity. In my books, that is called 'LYING for SELF GAIN' which isn't morally correct.

 

 

 

damn i'm looking forward to his reply on that :shock: that nearly nearly hit a nail in the coffin :o

[monkeyboo2]

 

damn i'm looking forward to his reply on that :shock: that nearly nearly hit a nail in the coffin :o

 

 

 

Yeah; he's gonna have a hard time making any reasonable counter-argument for that. Should be interesting :).

[x1992x]

 

damn i'm looking forward to his reply on that :shock: that nearly nearly hit a nail in the coffin :o

 

 

 

Yeah; he's gonna have a hard time making any reasonable counter-argument for that. Should be interesting :).

 

 

 

very interesting indeed 8-)

[Lenticular_J]

Then what was the hostility towards me for? You said I was "perfectly fine with it". But I'm trying to defend your opinion here.

 

 

 

As my post a few pages back made clear, I have good reason to stay prejudiced against your religion, but I'm not, because I'm angry at their prejudice in the first place.

 

I didn't mean any hostility. But that whole prejudice thing is another generalization. I know a good number, if not most, atheists aren't ignorant [wagon] who think the only religion in the world is Christianity. Just as you know most Christians will leave people of other or no religions do what they wish. It's just the ignorant loudmouths that ruin it for both sides.

 

 

 

Monkey, where were you able to find a Christian church or school that made atheists out as evil? In every church I've ever been in, including a Jewish (I forgot the word), they encouraged atheists and agnostics to look into their faith, and make sure they will enjoy the path they choose. Then again, a lot of these churches were in the Southern and Western parts of the country. Yes, we're a lot more tolerant then you think.

 

 

 

The rest of your post, though, is quite respectable.

[NoMoreDead]

 

I didn't mean any hostility. But that whole prejudice thing is another generalization. I know a good number, if not most, atheists aren't ignorant [wagon] who think the only religion in the world is Christianity. Just as you know most Christians will leave people of other or no religions do what they wish. It's just the ignorant loudmouths that ruin it for both sides.

 

 

 

Monkey, where were you able to find a Christian church or school that made atheists out as evil? In every church I've ever been in, including a Jewish (I forgot the word), they encouraged atheists and agnostics to look into their faith, and make sure they will enjoy the path they choose. Then again, a lot of these churches were in the Southern and Western parts of the country. Yes, we're a lot more tolerant then you think.

 

 

 

The rest of your post, though, is quite respectable.

 

 

 

It seems as though you've met ALL the wrong people, then. Ignorance is something left for your side of the argument, for the most part. Here's a fantastic quote by president George W. Bush from 1987:

 

"No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."

 

The quote suggests that atheist shouldn't be considered patriots, or even citizens of these United States. Now, I'll be fair and say that the quote is given by an ignorant man, and it does not represent the majority of Christians. However, it is written in the bible that the only way to heaven is through the father, Jesus. This means that no atheist can get into heaven, which, by default, means all atheists will burn in hell. I'd say that pretty much every church deems us as "Evil" based off of that.

 

 

 

And of course the church extends it's hand to atheists and agnostics. It's looking for a few extra followers, a little more money, and a few more people to "save". Now, naturallly, it would be a horrible generalization to say that all churches try to convert people for money purposes. I would assume that most people try to convert atheists and agnostics into religious people because they think they are "saving" them. The church does NOT approve of our lifestyles. Athesits, agnostics, homosexuals, and pretty much anyone else who doesn't believe what they believe is living the wrong lifestyle and will surely burn in hell. The church will try to convert you until the day you die.

 

 

 

I'd say that just about every Christian has a misinformed perception of the atheist lifestyle. We lead more wonderful lives than you could even fathom. Why, you might ask? Because we know we don't waste a single second of our only life following a false deity.

[assassin_696]

I am not to sure on whether a baby inherits sin, but take a look at toddlers (who I was reffering to when I said younger) they will often scream and disobey their parents, they always want to have the best/be the best, I often get annoyed at this, not only because they shouldn't do it, but also because it reminds me of how much I was like them as a toddler :oops:

 

 

 

So you're saying that because toddlers act on genetically pre-determined urges that this justifies them living in a world of suffering?