Is God real post your thoughts!

[RyderJ]

No, I believe in things that can be studied. My life philosophy is to gain knowledge, not believe in something greater than what exists in front of you. Appreciate the world for what it is instead of thinking a giant magic man in the sky will take you to his castle when you die because someone else told you about him.

 

 

 

We're on the search for truth, but the idea of truth changes often. Scientific advances help us to understand the earth we live on, you can't say "no, they're lying". It's not about belief, it's about logic.

[Lenticular_J]

All I'm saying is that if you use a view like that, it's just as ridiculous for a scientist to claim they know more than a theologist about the universe.

[RyderJ]

o rly

 

 

 

I see absolutely no plausibility there, other than for the purpose of argument. It's not mathematically sound to believe the two are anything alike. Science gives us the study of everything around us. And forgive my rudeness, but what exactly gives the pope the right to claim absolute truth over everything else? God did, right? Sounds like a bit of a vicious circle to me.

[Lenticular_J]

Err, you just posted that it's "selfish and conceited" to "know the absolute truth of origin."

 

 

 

Is the Big Bang about something else?

[Lateralus]

Err, you just posted that it's "selfish and conceited" to "know the absolute truth of origin."

 

 

 

Is the Big Bang about something else?

 

 

 

The Big Bang theory is one of many theories about the origin of the universe, which it seems might be true. You can put a certain degree of faith in it (for lack of a better word) because if you feel like it, you can follow the logical steps. Science suggests what might be true, given the evidence we have. Religion reaches for the absurd, which is to know the mind of an omniscient god.

[Lenticular_J]

I agree with believing it's silly to attempt to know the mind of God.

 

 

 

I just referred to it because of many atheists use the Big Bang theory, declaring it as obvious and absolute truth. Nice to see other people who also realize it is a theory, even if it is logical.

 

 

 

But, then again, the universe itself is hardly logic-bound.

[Furah]

I agree with believing it's silly to attempt to know the mind of God.

 

 

 

I just referred to it because of many atheists use the Big Bang theory, declaring it as obvious and absolute truth. Nice to see other people who also realize it is a theory, even if it is logical.

 

 

 

But, then again, the universe itself is hardly logic-bound.

 

 

 

whats worse is when it is taught in schools often the theory part is dropped off, and also cannot be proven using the scientific method, because you cannot recreate the so-called big bang

 

 

 

Also how does your science explain this?

 

Today I was feeling aweful like :-X aweful and I decided to go to church anyways, and they asked if anyone wanted to be healed (they rarely do, and you can't call it a coincidence) and when they prayed for me I went from feeling like I was poisoned to like hyper active :lol: , please, tell me how your science explains that? don't call it a placebo because trust me, I seem to be unaffected to placebos

[Lenticular_J]

Well, actually, CERN scientists are working on recreating the Big Bang. If you've ever read Angels & Demons, they're actually planning on experimenting with that sort of thing.

 

 

 

I do agree that it should be told that it is also a theory, though.

[Lateralus]

I agree with believing it's silly to attempt to know the mind of God.

 

 

 

I just referred to it because of many atheists use the Big Bang theory, declaring it as obvious and absolute truth. Nice to see other people who also realize it is a theory, even if it is logical.

 

 

 

But, then again, the universe itself is hardly logic-bound.

 

 

 

whats worse is when it is taught in schools often the theory part is dropped off, and also cannot be proven using the scientific method, because you cannot recreate the so-called big bang

 

 

 

Also how does your science explain this?

 

Today I was feeling aweful like :-X aweful and I decided to go to church anyways, and they asked if anyone wanted to be healed (they rarely do, and you can't call it a coincidence) and when they prayed for me I went from feeling like I was poisoned to like hyper active :lol: , please, tell me how your science explains that? don't call it a placebo because trust me, I seem to be unaffected to placebos

 

 

 

People are only affected by placebos they believe will work.

[Furah]

I agree with believing it's silly to attempt to know the mind of God.

 

 

 

I just referred to it because of many atheists use the Big Bang theory, declaring it as obvious and absolute truth. Nice to see other people who also realize it is a theory, even if it is logical.

 

 

 

But, then again, the universe itself is hardly logic-bound.

 

 

 

whats worse is when it is taught in schools often the theory part is dropped off, and also cannot be proven using the scientific method, because you cannot recreate the so-called big bang

 

 

 

Also how does your science explain this?

 

Today I was feeling aweful like :-X aweful and I decided to go to church anyways, and they asked if anyone wanted to be healed (they rarely do, and you can't call it a coincidence) and when they prayed for me I went from feeling like I was poisoned to like hyper active :lol: , please, tell me how your science explains that? don't call it a placebo because trust me, I seem to be unaffected to placebos

 

 

 

People are only affected by placebos they believe will work.

 

 

 

what makes you think I believed it would? I was thinking "what if this doesn't work? maybe I should have stayed home after all"

 

 

 

so glad I went anyways

[RyderJ]

Ask any scientist, and they will agree that it's silly to believe in an Absolute Truth. I capitalise this, because this is "absolute" in a literal sense. Something that cannot be denied, nor changed. The Big Bang is taught in schools because it's the Plausible Truth instead of "

". Red shift, and other evidence of universal expansion from a single point show us what is the current human belief. Scientists, and most humans are open to new ideas if they make sense, if they have evidence.

[warri0r45]

Ask any scientist, and they will agree that it's silly to believe in an Absolute Truth. I capitalise this, because this is "absolute" in a literal sense. Something that cannot be denied, nor changed. The Big Bang is taught in schools because it's the Plausible Truth instead of "

". Red shift, and other evidence of universal expansion from a single point show us what is the current human belief. Scientists, and most humans are open to new ideas if they make sense, if they have evidence.

 

 

 

Agreed. If kids have the expectation to get all pure fact or absolute truths in science classes then the science classes are failing to teach what science is/does.

 

 

 

whats worse is when it is taught in schools often the theory part is dropped off, and also cannot be proven using the scientific method, because you cannot recreate the so-called big bang

 

 

 

What makes you think the scientific method is a method of absolutely proving things? What makes you think that every scientific idea must be recreated in a lab? The scientific method isn't defined absolutely but it basically includes observation, hypothesis forming, hypothesis testing, and then rejection or support for the hypothesis. An extra step, if applicable, is forming testable theoretical constructs to explain some aspect or multiple aspects of nature. Theories don't indicate a low level of certainty because theory in science and theory every day use is different. At the end of the day, the tested idea is only as good as its best evidence/confirmed tests and if its the case that the big bang theory is being taught in schools with little emphasis on uncertainties, then its probably the case that there is a significant level of certainty about it in the scientific community.

 

 

 

To address another point, we don't need to exactly recreate things ourselves to make them scientific. For example, we know that the sun is made of hydrogen and helium and we know all kinds of other incredible things about the universe, but we can't recreate these things here on earth. Having said that, we can recreate some extreme conditions in controlled circumstances (such as in atom smashers) to test the predictions of theories like the big bang. If such a method of testing isnt at our disposal, then we test a theorys prediction with observational adherence to it. In these ways, theories pertaining to things we can't recreate directly can be tested. As another example, Im sure you know that you can't actually recreate a murder scene, but you can use forensics to put various suspects to the test.

 

 

 

Ill take it that youre mistaking recreation of some phenomenon with repetition of study results, which is actually an important scientific principle, arguably on par with testability.

[Furah]

Ask any scientist, and they will agree that it's silly to believe in an Absolute Truth. I capitalise this, because this is "absolute" in a literal sense. Something that cannot be denied, nor changed. The Big Bang is taught in schools because it's the Plausible Truth instead of "

". Red shift, and other evidence of universal expansion from a single point show us what is the current human belief. Scientists, and most humans are open to new ideas if they make sense, if they have evidence.

 

 

 

Agreed. If kids have the expectation to get all pure fact or absolute truths in science classes then the science classes are failing to teach what science is/does.

 

 

 

whats worse is when it is taught in schools often the theory part is dropped off, and also cannot be proven using the scientific method, because you cannot recreate the so-called big bang

 

 

 

What makes you think the scientific method is a method of absolutely proving things? What makes you think that every scientific idea must be recreated in a lab? The scientific method isn't defined absolutely but it basically includes observation, hypothesis forming, hypothesis testing, and then rejection or support for the hypothesis. An extra step, if applicable, is forming testable theoretical constructs to explain some aspect or multiple aspects of nature. Theories don't indicate a low level of certainty because theory in science and theory every day use is different. At the end of the day, the tested idea is only as good as its best evidence/confirmed tests and if its the case that the big bang theory is being taught in schools with little emphasis on uncertainties, then its probably the case that there is a significant level of certainty about it in the scientific community.

 

 

 

To address another point, we don't need to exactly recreate things ourselves to make them scientific. For example, we know that the sun is made of hydrogen and helium and we know all kinds of other incredible things about the universe, but we can't recreate these things here on earth. Having said that, we can recreate some extreme conditions in controlled circumstances (such as in atom smashers) to test the predictions of theories like the big bang. If such a method of testing isnt at our disposal, then we test a theorys prediction with observational adherence to it. In these ways, theories pertaining to things we can't recreate directly can be tested. As another example, Im sure you know that you can't actually recreate a murder scene, but you can use forensics to put various suspects to the test.

 

 

 

Ill take it that youre mistaking recreation of some phenomenon with repetition of study results, which is actually an important scientific principle, arguably on par with testability.

 

 

 

you seem to misunderstand me, I often get told how the scientific method can prove the big bang theory :roll:

[assassin_696]

you seem to misunderstand me, I often get told how the scientific method can prove the big bang theory :roll:

 

 

 

And why can't it?

[Furah]

you seem to misunderstand me, I often get told how the scientific method can prove the big bang theory :roll:

 

 

 

And why can't it?

 

 

 

read what warior wrote

[assassin_696]

you seem to misunderstand me, I often get told how the scientific method can prove the big bang theory :roll:

 

 

 

And why can't it?

 

 

 

read what warior wrote

 

 

 

I did, what's your point? Of course you can't prove anything to an absolute degree, but you can be pretty damn sure about it. The scientific method encompasses the way the evidence for the Big Bang model was gathered and tested. Ergo, the scientific method has proved the Big Bang theory to a level almost beyond reasonable doubt.

[monkeyboo2]

[hide=]

I agree with believing it's silly to attempt to know the mind of God.

 

 

 

I just referred to it because of many atheists use the Big Bang theory, declaring it as obvious and absolute truth. Nice to see other people who also realize it is a theory, even if it is logical.

 

 

 

But, then again, the universe itself is hardly logic-bound.

 

 

 

whats worse is when it is taught in schools often the theory part is dropped off, and also cannot be proven using the scientific method, because you cannot recreate the so-called big bang

 

 

 

Also how does your science explain this?

 

Today I was feeling aweful like :-X aweful and I decided to go to church anyways, and they asked if anyone wanted to be healed (they rarely do, and you can't call it a coincidence) and when they prayed for me I went from feeling like I was poisoned to like hyper active :lol: , please, tell me how your science explains that? don't call it a placebo because trust me, I seem to be unaffected to placebos

 

 

 

People are only affected by placebos they believe will work.

[/hide]

 

1. Being a 'theory' does not mean that it is uncertain. Agreed, the Big Bang Theory has less compelling evidence than other 'theories' but the nice thing about science, is if valid evidence is presented; scientists are generally willing to change their views (unlike some people).

 

A theory is an ongoing definition for an event/phenomenom/whatever which develops more knowledge and credibility as more valid evidence supports or counters its existing evidence/conclusions.

 

Some theories have lots of evidence (such as the Theory of Gravity- you believe in Gravity right?), others like the Big Bang Theory have less evidence.

 

 

 

IN summary, the theory is an explanation of the peak of our knowledge at the time, based on evidence. Wouldn't you rather have this taught to your children than tell them that the magic man made them- based on no evidence.

 

 

 

2. Universe is very logic bound. We may not understand every last bit of quantum mechanics; but darn t there's a mathematical equation to go with everything.

 

 

 

3.And sorry, but your experience was a very simple placebo. All that happened is you got excited about the event; thus the hyperactivity. The hyperactivity made displaced your discomfort.

[chase_cool7]

I think of god in a very different way than most people. Millions pray to him, die for him and make decisions thinking it is gods will. Many look at this as bad and it is, and it is good, it is nothing, it is everything.

 

 

 

It is an idea in a small childs mind, it is you, me, it is all of us. Perhaps the very fact people believe in god proves that it exists. I'm not saying when you die you will go to heaven and meet some guy in a robe, but... God is an idea. An idea that can fill voids in people lives, can save people, and give them strength they never knew they had. The fight between whether god is real will never be solved until everyone believes in god or no one does. Because god may no exist for you but for someone else god does.

 

 

 

I don't know why people have to argue, it will only lead to anger and hatred from both sides. I have been on both sides of the fence and now I just admit I don't know. And neither do any of you, you can't prove god doesn't exist and you certainly can't prove he does.

[x1992x]

 

 

 

And why can't it?

 

 

 

read what warior wrote

 

 

 

I did, what's your point? Of course you can't prove anything to an absolute degree, but you can be pretty damn sure about it. The scientific method encompasses the way the evidence for the Big Bang model was gathered and tested. Ergo, the scientific method has proved the Big Bang theory to a level almost beyond reasonable doubt.

 

 

 

i love these talks. now let me throw in my bit to this descussion. the big bang theory is so proven that it's more proven then most other thing no involving religion that we all believe. it's just because it will shatter the christanity if they dont keep holding to straws.

 

 

 

on to the topic. no i dont believe there is something higher then us and this man puts in very nice:

 

click on the link in my siggy ;)

[chase_cool7]

[hide=]

 

 

 

I did, what's your point? Of course you can't prove anything to an absolute degree, but you can be pretty damn sure about it. The scientific method encompasses the way the evidence for the Big Bang model was gathered and tested. Ergo, the scientific method has proved the Big Bang theory to a level almost beyond reasonable doubt.

 

 

 

i love these talks. now let me throw in my bit to this descussion. the big bang theory is so proven that it's more proven then most other thing no involving religion that we all believe. it's just because it will shatter the christanity if they dont keep holding to straws.

 

 

 

on to the topic. no i dont believe there is something higher then us and this man puts in very nice:

 

click on the link in my siggy ;)

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but in science a fact is the most logical conclusion not meaning it is proven so you wouldn't need to say everything is a theory.

[x1992x]

[hide=]

 

 

 

I did, what's your point? Of course you can't prove anything to an absolute degree, but you can be pretty damn sure about it. The scientific method encompasses the way the evidence for the Big Bang model was gathered and tested. Ergo, the scientific method has proved the Big Bang theory to a level almost beyond reasonable doubt.

 

 

 

i love these talks. now let me throw in my bit to this descussion. the big bang theory is so proven that it's more proven then most other thing no involving religion that we all believe. it's just because it will shatter the christanity if they dont keep holding to straws.

 

 

 

on to the topic. no i dont believe there is something higher then us and this man puts in very nice:

 

click on the link in my siggy ;)

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but in science a fact is the most logical conclusion not meaning it is proven so you wouldn't need to say everything is a theory.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact

 

 

 

edit: messed up the quote -.-

[BlueLancer]

I think of god in a very different way than most people. Millions pray to him, die for him and make decisions thinking it is gods will. Many look at this as bad and it is, and it is good, it is nothing, it is everything.

 

 

 

It is an idea in a small childs mind, it is you, me, it is all of us. Perhaps the very fact people believe in god proves that it exists. I'm not saying when you die you will go to heaven and meet some guy in a robe, but... God is an idea. An idea that can fill voids in people lives, can save people, and give them strength they never knew they had. The fight between whether god is real will never be solved until everyone believes in god or no one does. Because god may no exist for you but for someone else god does.

 

 

 

I always tolerated people of all religions and even studied nearly all of them in-depth, but I wouldn't want to teach the latter philosophy you mentioned to my child.

 

 

 

god may not exist for you but for someone else god does.

 

 

 

It's not realistic to think anything in life is possible just because "you" believe it to be so. There are already millions of gullible people in the world that fall prey to simplistic nigerian scam-emails promising 3 million dollars after a "fee" of 2,000 bucks... Because they have too much faith in something that has no proof of existence, and they get screwed.

 

 

 

The above is just an example, a huge abudance of faith doesn't serve any purpose in the real world, in the worst cases like those scams, it completely makes people forget about cold rational thinking and reasoning, and they start believing they're "blessed by God" to recieve millions of dollars. Reality will strike those people hard.

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with being spiritual. Both my parents were too. But if you let it affect your way of thinking and dealing with life too much, your functioning as a human in a sadly vicious world could, or will, become incapacitated.

[Furah]

1. Being a 'theory' does not mean that it is uncertain. Agreed, the Big Bang Theory has less compelling evidence than other 'theories' but the nice thing about science, is if valid evidence is presented; scientists are generally willing to change their views (unlike some people).

 

A theory is an ongoing definition for an event/phenomenom/whatever which develops more knowledge and credibility as more valid evidence supports or counters its existing evidence/conclusions.

 

Some theories have lots of evidence (such as the Theory of Gravity- you believe in Gravity right?), others like the Big Bang Theory have less evidence

 

 

 

I really hope that wasn't directed at people who believe in a religion, and of cource I believe in gravity

 

 

 

 

IN summary, the theory is an explanation of the peak of our knowledge at the time, based on evidence. Wouldn't you rather have this taught to your children than tell them that the magic man made them- based on no evidence.

 

 

 

 

based on no evidence? there is lots of evidence, take our own bodies for example, all of it works together, now say we 'evolved' there would have been a time when mothers gave birth to childs, but when the placenta was removed from the mother her arteries didn't know to close off, and she is dead within 5 minutes (she looses 1L of blood a minute, and she only has 5 litres of blood in her) how did the woman 'evolve' to have her artieries close when the placenta is removed? I'm sure they would have had no idea how the woman died... so they wouldn't have been able to overcome this problem

 

 

 

 

3.And sorry, but your experience was a very simple placebo. All that happened is you got excited about the event; thus the hyperactivity. The hyperactivity made displaced your discomfort.

 

 

 

 

what makes you think I believed it would? I was thinking "what if this doesn't work? maybe I should have stayed home after all"

 

 

 

so glad I went anyways

[Lateralus]

 

based on no evidence? there is lots of evidence, take our own bodies for example, all of it works together, now say we 'evolved' there would have been a time when mothers gave birth to childs, but when the placenta was removed from the mother her arteries didn't know to close off, and she is dead within 5 minutes (she looses 1L of blood a minute, and she only has 5 litres of blood in her) how did the woman 'evolve' to have her artieries close when the placenta is removed? I'm sure they would have had no idea how the woman died... so they wouldn't have been able to overcome this problem

 

 

 

That's not how evolution works. I don't know if your example was the actual case, as that kind of evolutionary step would have been taken long before we reached anything like humans. Evolution by natural selection involves random mutations. If women were dying giving birth this way, they don't evolve, but maybe their kids would be born with a specific mutation that means they don't bleed to death when giving birth. A person or animal with this mutation is much more likely to survive and have more kids who will also carry and pass on this genetic mutation.

[chase_cool7]

god may not exist for you but for someone else god does.

 

 

 

It's not realistic to think anything in life is possible just because "you" believe it to be so. There are already millions of gullible people in the world that fall prey to simplistic nigerian scam-emails promising 3 million dollars after a "fee" of 2,000 bucks... Because they have too much faith in something that has no proof of existence, and they get screwed.

 

 

 

The above is just an example, a huge abudance of faith doesn't serve any purpose in the real world, in the worst cases like those scams, it completely makes people forget about cold rational thinking and reasoning, and they start believing they're "blessed by God" to recieve millions of dollars. Reality will strike those people hard.

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with being spiritual. Both my parents were too. But if you let it affect your way of thinking and dealing with life too much, your functioning as a human in a sadly vicious world could, or will, become incapacitated.

 

 

 

I'm not saying it is possible (I am not saying their is an actual physical god or that he/she created the universe), I'm saying the very fact that the idea of god can shape people and change the way they they would act otherwise makes it real. And I realize it is a tough concept to grasp (And I really just wrote down whatever came into my head) and most of you are thinking I am a complete moron for even coming up with this but... I did and I thought it was interesting enough to share it with you.

 

 

 

 

 

And also about the "fact" issue, yes I know what a fact is. But I was tought by my science prof that a fact when refering to science does not have to be completely proven. A fact in science is just the most likely theory, and that facts can actually be proven wrong and changed. Does anyone know anything about this?