Is God real post your thoughts!

[TheLastTemplar]

The Atheist world view cannot really give me a reason to live. If I did find something would it matter when I die? Absolutes, according to the atheist do not exist, and that would prove by what some of you said. Therefore by using logic to reply to my posts you are, now, taking on my world view. Which is, without God there would be nothing. You are nothing. The world is nothing. Meaning is pointless. There is no deffinate distinction between good and evil, it's a matter of personal preference. There is no hope in the future, we are all just going to die and that's it. Seems familiar? Pascals Wager had a similiar tie to it. If you live life saying there is no God and die and find out there is then you have all to loose. If you live life knowing there is God then you nothing to loose. According to this even if you did believe you would not be risking anything.

 

Logic is based off of absolute laws. You cannot use logic in an atheist world view. Even if you could the laws would have to be accepted by everyone for you to use them.

 

 

 

In short, I do believe there is a God. One God in, 3 in 1. I believe my lifes meaning is to live for Him, bring Him glory and enjoy him forever. I do not believe God would make you find your own meaning. To me, he has already given me meaning by creating me and showing me His Word in form of the Bible. I dunno, which world view gives more meaning?

 

 

 

Keep in mind this is a forum about proving God exists. Refrain from flaming.

[yomom1919]

The Atheist world view cannot really give me a reason to live. If I did find something would it matter when I die? Absolutes, according to the atheist do not exist, and that would prove by what some of you said. Therefore by using logic to reply to my posts you are, now, taking on my world view. Which is, without God there would be nothing. You are nothing. The world is nothing. Meaning is pointless. There is no deffinate distinction between good and evil, it's a matter of personal preference. There is no hope in the future, we are all just going to die and that's it. Seems familiar? Pascals Wager had a similiar tie to it. If you live life saying there is no God and die and find out there is then you have all to loose. If you live life knowing there is God then you nothing to loose. According to this even if you did believe you would not be risking anything.

 

Logic is based off of absolute laws. You cannot use logic in an atheist world view. Even if you could the laws would have to be accepted by everyone for you to use them.

 

 

 

Is that you speaking or your teacher speaking?

 

I am an atheist, but my parents send me to catholic school. I am required to take morality classes, and my teacher sounds just like you.

[TheLastTemplar]

alright now, like I said, refrain from personal attacks.

 

 

 

Yes, that is me talking.

[Rebdragon]

TheLastTemplar, don't play the helpless sheep with this "refrain from personal attacks" posting. No one has attacked you thusfar, and no one really cares if you want to try and portray yourself as innocent and good in this argument. This isn't politics; it's a simple debate.

 

 

 

 

 

The Atheist world view cannot really give me a reason to live. If I did find something would it matter when I die? Absolutes, according to the atheist do not exist, and that would prove by what some of you said. Therefore by using logic to reply to my posts you are, now, taking on my world view. Which is, without God there would be nothing. You are nothing. The world is nothing. Meaning is pointless. There is no deffinate distinction between good and evil, it's a matter of personal preference.

 

Or, you know, you could look at the journey [here on Earth] as well as the end [in Heaven], instead of keeping your head in the clouds.

 

 

 

I bet you'd learn a lot from studying Eastern religions [yes, broken record]. The majority of them focus on the journey, either instead of or with the end. Again, no need to disregard your life on Earth and spend all your time thinking about Heaven- there's still a lot of good you could do here for people O:) .

 

 

 

There is no hope in the future, we are all just going to die and that's it. Seems familiar? Pascals Wager had a similiar tie to it. If you live life saying there is no God and die and find out there is then you have all to loose. If you live life knowing there is God then you nothing to loose. According to this even if you did believe you would not be risking anything.

 

Wow.

 

 

 

That is, by far, one of my top most hated quotes of all time. It exemplifies, compliments, and supports the philosophy of a worthless craven. "Hey, if I don't believe in god, and there is one, it might now blow over well with all the Hell stuff theists are feeding me. But, if there isn't a god, then I believed something that isn't true. Be in the wrong, go to Hell, be in the wrong, go to Hell... oh, it's so simple! I'll just throw away all form of core belief, and just pick believing in God because of an easy trade-off! I'm a frikkin' genius!"

 

 

 

If you're an atheist, stick to your guns. If you're a theist, stick to your guns. Center your belief system from what you truly believe true in your heart, not from your own spineless cowardice to take the easy route out.

 

 

 

Logic is based off of absolute laws. You cannot use logic in an atheist world view. Even if you could the laws would have to be accepted by everyone for you to use them.

 

You got this idea... where? Are you telling me you don't find any morals in the human race outside of religion, any form of logic whatsoever? You truly believe all logic and morality comes directly, and only, from Christianity?

 

 

 

Oh, and free counter-example for your post. Not everyone agrees on the laws set by their government. By your logic, no laws could ever be passed and enforced, ever. Am I wrong here?

 

 

 

.. and havn't we gone down this road before? I'm getting deja vu with this whole "atheists can't live with logic" thing.

 

 

 

In short, I do believe there is a God. One God in, 3 in 1. I believe my lifes meaning is to live for Him, bring Him glory and enjoy him forever. I do not believe God would make you find your own meaning. To me, he has already given me meaning by creating me and showing me His Word in form of the Bible. I dunno, which world view gives more meaning?

 

There's another reason to read the book. No one ever has "more meaning"; everyone's is just different. Maybe you'd learn something about not being an elitist by reading it.

 

 

 

Now, as a side-inquiry, what does this meaning tell you to do here on Earth? I'd assume it gives you a purpose, something to act on while you live among the measly mortals of this planet we call Earth.

 

 

 

Keep in mind this is a forum about proving God exists. Refrain from flaming.

 

Ya... that won't really go anywhere. Good luck talking to yourself and all about it : .

[foodmanfood1]

what an interesting topic... #-o

[Satenza]

The connection between atheism and suicide is irrelevant. Rather it has to do with the question of whether we understand how we come about finding a meaning to our lives. I see religion as an advocate of this and a very strong advocate. We can not derive faith from someone else, it is an inherently internal conclusion we draw. This may lead you to knowing your meaning in life, such as to serve your God. Whereas the next person may see their life to take a different meaning. They have come about that decision by the same ways in which you have come about yours, through themself. You have both taken the same path of discovery, each has found meaning and each views the next mans meaning to life as less relevant to their own. Your view is understandable, but how you can say the meaning you have discovered is more relevant to someone else than their own is beyond me, if each is formulated by the same method, yours is no more substantial than anyone elses.

[Sean_Chaos]

Ever heard of free will? What kind of a God would create puppets? Since that essentially is what you are suggestion...

 

 

 

If there is a god out there i dont owe him a dam thing

 

I didnt ask to be put in this world

 

In fact several times ive asked to leave

 

looking back on it im glad i didnt...

 

but what kind of an all powerful being create a world to serve him

 

how disgustingly selfish

 

to have a meaningless empty existance to serve a higher power

 

ew

 

hell no

[warri0r45]

Logic is based off of absolute laws. You cannot use logic in an atheist world view. Even if you could the laws would have to be accepted by everyone for you to use them.

 

 

 

Hey? Of course atheists can use logic, just like anyone else. I think you're confusing principles and rules implemented by man for formal logic to make sense of things and absolutes implemented by god.

 

 

 

Not everyone may accept logic but that's no judge for the rest of us to use it. Either way, most people do accept logic. Why? Because, I suppose, we're all humans and basic common sense exists in all of us. We generally consider logic and what it tells us to be self-evident.

 

 

 

Also, as Venomai said, what exactly do you mean by absolute? Many things in the world are absoloute. Atheists just don't believe in god-derived absolutes.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

As for the whole Pascals Wager thing, despite any arguments against it, I just find that way of looking at things to be fake and for the wrong reasons. I don't think you should believe in a particular religion because of rewards, you should do so because you feel genuine about it. Again, as venomai stated, the same argument would apply to any belief system - FSM, pink unicorn, Islam, you get the picture.

 

 

 

I could even argue that atheists, when they die, go to an eternal Paradise with everlasting happiness. If this is the case, everyone should be an atheist because doing so results in no loss but a potential eternal gain. See what I mean? Hence, Pascals wager, as applied to Christian theology, rests solely and completely on Christian convictions and theologies being popular, not in said convictions or theologies having any inherent truth.

[venomai]

So then is that an absolute? Is it an absolute that the deffinition of "evil" changes over time?

 

How can it be an absolute if it changes over time? :?

 

 

 

What if I go to a cousellor and he can't give me any better reason for not killing a neighbor???

 

How many reasons do you need? :?:

 

 

 

The Atheist world view cannot really give me a reason to live. If I did find something would it matter when I die?

 

Some atheists believe in the afterlife, some believe in a form of nirvana, and others believe that there is nothing after death. There is no "atheist world view". Atheist simply means no belief in God, it makes no assumption about religion, faith or spirituality.

 

 

 

Absolutes, according to the atheist do not exist, and that would prove by what some of you said.

 

What exactly do you mean by absolute? There are many things in our world that are absolute, but the concept of evil is not one of them.

 

 

 

There is no deffinate distinction between good and evil, it's a matter of personal preference.

 

Society and culture decide the what is "good" and "evil". These concepts adapt and evolve throughout history and civilization, like they always have.

 

 

 

Seems familiar? Pascals Wager had a similiar tie to it. If you live life saying there is no God and die and find out there is then you have all to loose. If you live life knowing there is God then you nothing to loose. According to this even if you did believe you would not be risking anything.

 

It seems selfish and faithless to accept God for the sole reason that there may be a possibility He exists, and it's even more pathetic to entertain the idea that He will welcome you to Heaven after you faithlessly accept Him for your own egotistical desires.

 

 

 

There is quite a bit to lose by accepting God -- one must change their life to follow such an organized and rule-based religion.

 

 

 

Nevertheless, the same argument you make can be applied to belief in any being, whether it be Allah or The Flying Spaghetti Monster. It is certainly no reason to base your entire belief system on.

 

 

 

Logic is based off of absolute laws. You cannot use logic in an atheist world view. Even if you could the laws would have to be accepted by everyone for you to use them.

 

Excuse me? Logic is extremely important to most atheists. And, to my knowledge, much of the logic atheists use tends to be accepted by the general public (such as the Big Bang, Evolution, etc).

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

Seems familiar? Pascals Wager had a similiar tie to it. If you live life saying there is no God and die and find out there is then you have all to loose. If you live life knowing there is God then you nothing to loose. According to this even if you did believe you would not be risking anything.

 

the chance that if you chose the right omniscient being is so minutely small that it wouldn't be worth wasting your only life. Think about it, there's somewhere around 30,000 religions that are practiced today, humans could think of trillions more and not to mention the googolplexians(sp) of "gods" that humans couldn't think of...

[DaN]

My thoughts can be summed up with one emoticon.

 

 

 

 

 

[warren211]

Ever heard of free will? What kind of a God would create puppets? Since that essentially is what you are suggestion...

 

 

 

If there is a god out there i dont owe him a dam thing

 

I didnt ask to be put in this world

 

In fact several times ive asked to leave

 

looking back on it im glad i didnt...

 

but what kind of an all powerful being create a world to serve him

 

how disgustingly selfish

 

to have a meaningless empty existance to serve a higher power

 

ew

 

hell no

 

 

 

You act as though we are to dedicate every minute of our lives to getting on our knees and worshipping him. All God asks is you live a moral life of helping others. and give him one hour on sunday for mass. and give him a few quick prayers when you go to bed and eat. In return he gives you the world. don't act as though there's nothing you like about this world. he didn't create the world for you to worship him 24/7, neglecting everyone else around you but Him. He asks that you aknowledge him, respect him. If thats too hard then I think the "disgustingly selfish" title belongs to you.

 

 

 

 

 

the chance that if you chose the right omniscient being is so minutely small that it wouldn't be worth wasting your only life. Think about it, there's somewhere around 30,000 religions that are practiced today, humans could think of trillions more and not to mention the googolplexians(sp) of "gods" that humans couldn't think of...

 

 

 

In most merciful religions there would be a belief that if you live a moral life as a Buddhist or Muslim or Jew, you deserve a heaven for whatever god exists out there. I would think believing in a different god than what's really out there and still living a moral life is better than denying that there is no almighty. what you seem to be saying is that its better to not believe in god than to believe in the wrong one, and by not believing in one than you better hope to god (oops! excuse me. hope to the scientific method) that there isn't one. because if there is, you're screwed. But hey! its not like living a moral life but aknowledging that there is a god out there, regardless of what you call him, will get you anywhere further than denying him altogether right?

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

 

the chance that if you chose the right omniscient being is so minutely small that it wouldn't be worth wasting your only life. Think about it, there's somewhere around 30,000 religions that are practiced today, humans could think of trillions more and not to mention the googolplexians(sp) of "gods" that humans couldn't think of...

 

 

 

In most merciful religions there would be a belief that if you live a moral life as a Buddhist or Muslim or Jew, you deserve a heaven for whatever god exists out there. I would think believing in a different god than what's really out there and still living a moral life is better than denying that there is no almighty. what you seem to be saying is that its better to not believe in god than to believe in the wrong one, and by not believing in one than you better hope to god (oops! excuse me. hope to the scientific method) that there isn't one. because if there is, you're screwed. But hey! its not like living a moral life but aknowledging that there is a god out there, regardless of what you call him, will get you anywhere further than denying him altogether right?

 

i prefer the third option, being moral and not believing in Yahweh ;)

 

 

 

also why did it(Yahweh) make it so people can not believe in him it?

[Lenticular_J]

I am, personally, Christian, but I believe God takes the form of everything. Whether it is God, Allah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or the Scientific Method, you're believing in something to explain this [bleep]-up world we live in, which is the most basic definition of religion.

[warri0r45]

I am, personally, Christian, but I believe God takes the form of everything. Whether it is God, Allah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or the Scientific Method, you're believing in something to explain this [bleep]-up world we live in, which is the most basic definition of religion.

 

 

 

I don't think so. Religion is more complex than just one belief. It's a set of beliefs, practices and rituals, often dealing with moral claims.

 

 

 

Science is a process. Sure, there may be belief that it's a process that works or that it can in fact explain the universe (many people take that as self-evident), but it's hardly a religion.

 

 

 

Trying to equate science and religion is futile. They are inherently different things.

[Igor]

There could be a creator/orchestrator/or whatever. Frankly, i don't really give, but most religons have survived now because they are more vague then the pagan ones. Everyone really knows most religons are bull, just people look to it for comfort.

 

 

 

And for whoever said that science and religon on different, wtf are you on.

 

I.E

 

 

 

God of Lightning: Thor *according to Norse Mythology* We disproved a religon by scientifical means.

 

 

 

If we had no science, we could beleive in crazy religons or whatever we wished. We wouldn't even have this debate, as it would become more pointless.

 

 

 

|gor

[Cup Lion]

I believe God exists. Its as plain as that. I found something on youtube that seems to be pretty interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

^I assure you it is not a link with a virus to it, or whatever. Mods can check it out, if they want. :thumbup:

[tryto]

There could be a creator/orchestrator/or whatever. Frankly, i don't really give, but most religons have survived now because they are more vague then the pagan ones. Everyone really knows most religons are bull, just people look to it for comfort.

 

 

 

And for whoever said that science and religon on different, wtf are you on.

 

I.E

 

 

 

God of Lightning: Thor *according to Norse Mythology* We disproved a religon by scientifical means.

 

 

 

If we had no science, we could beleive in crazy religons or whatever we wished. We wouldn't even have this debate, as it would become more pointless.

 

 

 

|gor

 

 

 

 

 

You just ruined your argument. No one has ever proven that Thor does not exist. No one ever will. That's an excellent argument in some cases, but you just shot your self in the foot :P.

[Rebdragon]

I believe God exists. Its as plain as that. I found something on youtube that seems to be pretty interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

^I assure you it is not a link with a virus to it, or whatever. Mods can check it out, if they want. :thumbup:

 

I'm glad I don't know the guy who posted that video, and I pray to God that I'll never meet him.

[Cup Lion]

I'm glad I don't know the guy who posted that video, and I pray to God that I'll never meet him.

 

Care to share why? I am not familiar of your beliefs, which is why I am asking a general question. I think it'd be interesting to know, that is all. :)

[Rebdragon]

I'm glad I don't know the guy who posted that video, and I pray to God that I'll never meet him.

 

Care to share why? I am not familiar of your beliefs, which is why I am asking a general question. I think it'd be interesting to know, that is all. :)

 

Not his logic, if that's what you're wondering. It's sound more or less, just seems to jump to conclusions a little too fast. What I didn't like was the general Fundy rhetoric- essentially taking at least a second out of every sentence to, in bold caps, make sure that the atheists know he thinks they're idiots and treats said belief as absolute law. It's typical obnoxious behavior, and completely intolerable to deal with.

[Lenticular_J]

I'm glad I don't know the guy who posted that video, and I pray to God that I'll never meet him.

 

Care to share why? I am not familiar of your beliefs, which is why I am asking a general question. I think it'd be interesting to know, that is all. :)

 

Not his logic, if that's what you're wondering. It's sound more or less, just seems to jump to conclusions a little too fast. What I didn't like was the general Fundy rhetoric- essentially taking at least a second out of every sentence to, in bold caps, make sure that the atheists know he thinks they're idiots and treats said belief as absolute law. It's typical obnoxious behavior, and completely intolerable to deal with.

 

While he is obnoxious and idiotic, he makes a good point. Sort of the point I was trying to make with my post earlier.

[Rebdragon]

The problem, though, with his logic is one of human limitations; that is, we are not equipped to be able to comprehend and expound upon the concept of infinity. To say something never was created or destroyed... a human can act like they can understand the idea of it, but in reality it is beyond comprehension. Thus, to say, using extremely basic logic, that you have grasped the idea of unending existence and can thus explain it, is, in my mind, ludicrous.

 

 

 

Maybe it's my arrogance or pessimism, but I can't accept someone acting like they can actually prove God exists by these means.

 

 

 

Think of it this way: If our universe didn't always exist [by his argument, Cyclic model is a possibility in my eyes], then consequently there must be something outside of the universe that supplied the energy to create our universe. Scientists often call this the "multiverse". In the multiverse, there are possibly infinite universes, each with their own laws. Now, there's an important thing to note about the laws in our universe: if you tweaked the right one, even just a little, it is generally likely that it would be impossible for life to exist in our universe. From that logic, it could very well be true that only a small percentage of the universes in this multiverse could sustain life. That would mean that the order in our universe is not because of some sentient beings construction of it, but because this universe was just one of the lucky ones that got the nice kind of order that could allow for life.

 

 

 

But again, this is the problem I have with debating this: it's infinity, and it's very hypothetical. No matter how much basic logic you use, realistically we aren't justified to make conclusions about it.

[Igor]

God is not real. A creator probably isn't either.

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to the new documentary that is coming out soon- Religulous, I think? It's about a man who goes around and well, tools on priests.

 

 

 

I think everyone knows that a higher being doesn't exist, they just don't want to believe it.

 

 

 

And Reb, I agree about the Cyclic model; have you ever heard about string theory? I found that pretty interesting too.

[warren211]

Igor, care to disprove some of these eucharistic miracles?

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_miracle

 

 

 

and don't tell me all the images are fake or every story is made up.