Is God real post your thoughts!

[Plectrum]

 

 

 

I focus on the physical suffering because I don't think anyone should be entitled to endure it.

But would you sacrifice your self for someone? A friend, family member, or stranger? And if you did wouldn't you feel that you were entitled to endure it? Wouldn't it be your privilege as a person of society to sacrifice yourself for someone else?

[venomai]

The problem with you Venomai, is that you don't believe in Heaven or Hell therefore all you know is to focus on the physical suffering and forget about enternity.

 

Not speaking for Ven of course, but I hold that philosophy and I find it to be a much more useful way to look at life than focusing on trying to comprehend something incomprehensible, like gods or the afterlife. It's nowhere near a 'problem'; it's simply a different outlook on life than your own.

 

 

 

Though, I may simply just be having trouble understanding you. Why would you label such a mindset "a problem"?

 

 

 

I don't intend to argue, only to attempt to demonstrate the Christian perspective on this and why in some sence it is a problem for you if you are not correct...

 

 

 

If it is the case that there is a God... and it is the case that the Bible is an accurate rendition of God's general will for how HIS world should run and HIS creatures should behave... then it is the case that there is a real place that is Heaven (that is the presence of God) and a real place that is Hell (that is the absence of God), and it is also the case that every human being on the planet is going to either one or else the other.

 

 

 

If Heaven and Hell are real and everybody is going one way or the other and you don't know it then I ought to do everything in my power to show you so that you don't unintentionally go somewhere you do not want to go.

 

 

 

As a Christian who believes the Bible, Unorclan can not help but try to warn people off from a dangerious path any more then I, as a good Samaritan could not in good concience do anything but warn people that the bridge was out and they would probably be destroyed if they continued along that road they were on.

 

I think it's time I explain my own belief (which changes pretty often, I'll admit).

 

 

 

Personally, I feel that there is only one afterlife. Let us call it Nirvana for lack of a better term. It is a series of non-physical dimensions of conscious thought energy. I believe that every individual will go to this afterlife, regardless of their religion or what they have done with their life.

 

 

 

To some, like you, it will be seen as a form of Heaven. Others, perhaps those who are only left with their own guilt, will see it as a form of Hell. Others will see it as Muslim Paradise, while others still will see it as the Buddhist Afterlife. In all cases, each individual is in a way correct, as the the environment will take shape based on the individual's expectations. Only those who have previously explored this non-physical dimension will understand its true nature (and in this case "understand" is a relative term).

 

 

 

I am going to the afterlife regardless of Christianity. I appreciate your concern, though. :)

[venomai]

 

 

 

I focus on the physical suffering because I don't think anyone should be entitled to endure it.

But would you sacrifice your self for someone? A friend, family member, or stranger? And if you did wouldn't you feel that you were entitled to endure it? Wouldn't it be your privilege as a person of society to sacrifice yourself for someone else?

 

Sorry, to clarify I meant suffering of innocents brought on by an external and unwanted source. :)

 

 

 

PS: Hey, you never answered my question about that baker comment... :P

[snarlin]

eh,i won't even respond to the other posts just yet,don't have the time nor the desire to argue with christian belief at the moment.

 

 

 

i believe in god...the god in yourself..not the god who "loves" us all,nor the god that believes it is wrong to indulge or what not,and imposes morals and and rules that are far outdated,and make people feel guilty when there is no need to.

 

you can't possibly love everyone,and those who say they do..are talking out of their behind.

 

believe in yourself,before anything..don't be some mindless sheep that follows everything stated as the word of "god"..have a mind of your own,and enjoy this life while you can..it is the only time you will be able to.

 

 

 

that said,i am all for letting one live his life however way he wants..aslong as no one is being bothered by it,have at it.

 

 

 

have fun. :wink:

[unorclan]

Then perhaps you should stop using the term "free will" in this context. :-k The way "I describe it" is the way the English language describes it. If you mean something other than free will, then don't use those words...

 

Yep, so i'll stop. :wink:

 

 

 

Physical needs? What about food and water?

 

And what about those innocents who have not been baptized? God loves them, yet he does not welcome them to Heaven?

 

According to the Bible - those who have never heard the Gospel are innocent from sin because of absence of understanding - therefore they will go to Heaven.

 

 

 

when my time comes I will be ready to enter it (with or without Christianity). :)

 

No you won't be ready

 

 

 

I focus on the physical suffering because I don't think anyone should be entitled to endure it.

 

The Bible makes clear that life isn't go to be a bed of thornless roses, we're going to endure hardtimes and things will test and try our faith.

[Plectrum]

 

 

 

I focus on the physical suffering because I don't think anyone should be entitled to endure it.

But would you sacrifice your self for someone? A friend, family member, or stranger? And if you did wouldn't you feel that you were entitled to endure it? Wouldn't it be your privilege as a person of society to sacrifice yourself for someone else?

 

Sorry, to clarify I meant suffering of innocents brought on by an external and unwanted source. :)

 

 

 

PS: Hey, you never answered my question about that baker comment... :P

I was just making a point that physical suffering isn't always caused by external and unwanted sources. Suffering can also come from principle values. Which can be good.

 

 

 

Sorry, I didn't check to see if you responded to the comment about the baker, I forgot about it.

 

 

 

I read your response and all I'm going to do is switch examples. I could use the baker example but I have a feeling it will just make this argument go in a circle.

 

 

 

Warning labels. Warning labels on any product is trusted. If the label says "don't ingest" chances are after reading it you will decide against ingesting it. Why? Because it can physically harm you. If it can physically harm you why not trust it? Why not believe in it? You lose nothing when you decide to not ingest rat poison. No need to investigate if it will actually harm you because you have nothing to gain from eating rat poison.

 

 

 

Hell. Hell is not a physical place. Often the Bible makes Hell feel physical because pain is often associated with the body. And since the Bible refers to Hell as a place of pain and suffering it seems physical. The problem is that it can't be physical because our bodies are already dead. Hell can only be a non-physical experience. This is why a lot of people doubt (including Christians) if Hell (and God) are real. There aren't any direct physical benefits from choosing to believe or not believe in the Bible. This is why the scriptures are questioned. Because your physical body is not in danger if you don't listen to its teachings.

 

 

 

My point is belief. You believe in rat poison warnings but you don't believe in God.

 

 

 

I understand that the option to investigate rat poison warnings exists but that doesn't change the fact that you trust someone else's word. Just like I trust someone else's word.

[l33thunt3r]

Yes.

[scaryman170]

if god is so real then y when i tried praying for a pet flying pig i don't get one. so i say he's not real other wise i'd have a flying pig right now

[wildernessfreelancer]

if god is so real then y when i tried praying for a pet flying pig i don't get one. so i say he's not real other wise i'd have a flying pig right now

 

 

 

Maybe God had known that you don't need a flying pig at all? :lol:

 

Besides, flying pigs defy logic.

 

(And yes I know you're being cynical about this.)

 

 

 

Question to Christians:

 

I've heard from the Bible that Jesus was the "Son of God" and that he died for our sins. If that was true, in my opinion, wouldn't everyone go to heaven regardless of their sins? So people will do whatever they want on Earth and still end up going to heaven anyway? Even when they had known about the Gospel and refused to accept Christianity, which should be considered as a "sin", will they still go to heaven as Jesus died for their sins? :-k

[Guest]

 

Question to Christians:

 

I've heard from the Bible that Jesus was the "Son of God" and that he died for our sins. If that was true, in my opinion, wouldn't everyone go to heaven regardless of their sins? So people will do whatever they want on Earth and still end up going to heaven anyway? Even when they had known about the Gospel and refused to accept Christianity, which should be considered as a "sin", will they still go to heaven as Jesus died for their sins? :-k

 

 

 

Good question. No they wouldn't. According to the Bible you need to confess and repent and ask for forgiveness, and then your sins will be washed away.

[scaryman170]

what is cynical #-o

[scaryman170]

why are you wasting your time thinking about whether god is real or not

 

(my mum wrote this)

[Leik]

He's not real.. Does someone really belive that some spirit in the sky created the world? It has been proved that the earth was created in some explosion.

 

He's not real.

[Rebdragon]

He's not real.. Does someone really belive that some spirit in the sky created the world? It has been proved that the earth was created in some explosion.

 

He's not real.

 

First of all, the earth wasn't created from "an explosion", but from the particles of a nebula clumping together in a non-gravitational field, eventually to the point where the object that was to become the earth had it's own substantial gravitational field, and thus attracted particles at very fast rate while it orbited around the center of the nebula. Eventually, that large spherical mass crashed into another forming planet of similiar size, resulting in the creation of the moon and a new, larger planet, the Earth.

 

 

 

Second, that's a bullcrap reason to be an atheist. Explain to me as to how the occurances of natural events results in the disproving of a supernatural one.

[NorthernHero]

I think it's time I explain my own belief (which changes pretty often, I'll admit).

 

 

 

Personally, I feel that there is only one afterlife. Let us call it Nirvana for lack of a better term. It is a series of non-physical dimensions of conscious thought energy. I believe that every individual will go to this afterlife, regardless of their religion or what they have done with their life.

 

 

 

To some, like you, it will be seen as a form of Heaven. Others, perhaps those who are only left with their own guilt, will see it as a form of Hell. Others will see it as Muslim Paradise, while others still will see it as the Buddhist Afterlife. In all cases, each individual is in a way correct, as the the environment will take shape based on the individual's expectations. Only those who have previously explored this non-physical dimension will understand its true nature (and in this case "understand" is a relative term).

 

 

 

I am going to the afterlife regardless of Christianity. I appreciate your concern, though.

 

Venomai, you have seemed to me as very logical person and thats why i'm little bit suprised to see that you believe in some kind of after life. Can I ask you what leads you to this conclusion? I'm very curious. And what urges you into beliveing something you don't know for sure? Meaning, why can't you accept that you don't know?

[Joes_So_Cool]

why are you wasting your time thinking about whether god is real or not

 

(my mum wrote this)

 

 

 

How about you ask her why she spends time typing a response on a game website, ask her why she spends time working at a job for hours for pieces of paper?

 

 

 

~Joe.

[unorclan]

Question to Christians:

 

I've heard from the Bible that Jesus was the "Son of God" and that he died for our sins. If that was true, in my opinion, wouldn't everyone go to heaven regardless of their sins? So people will do whatever they want on Earth and still end up going to heaven anyway? Even when they had known about the Gospel and refused to accept Christianity, which should be considered as a "sin", will they still go to heaven as Jesus died for their sins? :-k

 

 

 

No they would not go to heaven because, again, God gives us our own free CHOICE of either wanting to accept that forgiveness or deny it.

 

And even after accepting that forgiveness from all sin there is still the possibility to decide differently and that you wan't to go back to the world and live like the world and deny that forgiveness again and when you do that you don't go to heaven.

 

Timeline:

 

Born

 

Realizing Right from Wrong (when you've matured and realized what sin is)

 

Hearing the word of God

 

Believing the word of God

 

Repent of all your sins

 

Confess that you believe Jesus is the Son of God

 

Being Baptized

 

Saved

 

Live faithfully and strictly to the Bible

 

Die

 

Heaven

 

 

 

That's how it goes, but even after your saved you have the free CHOICE to turn away and if you do that grace is no longer cleansing your sins until you repent and come back.

 

 

 

Sorry, it probably sounds all preachy and not really on-topic but I was answering a question

[BlueLancer]

 

Timeline:

 

Born

 

Realizing Right from Wrong (when you've matured and realized what sin is)

 

Hearing the word of God

 

Believing the word of God

 

Repent of all your sins

 

Confess that you believe Jesus is the Son of God

 

Being Baptized

 

Saved

 

Live faithfully and strictly to the Bible

 

Die

 

Heaven

 

 

 

 

I'm not a christian (or an adherent of any other religion for that matter), but one of my parents is, so I was baptized at birth, way before hearing the 'word of God' :-s

 

 

 

What about people who hear a different word of God? A person being born into China, India, Palestine, Indonesia, some African countries, Arab countries... Will very likely never even hear of the Bible, and those people comprise about 50% of the world's population.

[Ambassadar]

Timeline:

 

Born

 

Realizing Right from Wrong (when you've matured and realized what sin is)

 

Hearing the word of God

 

Believing the word of God

 

Repent of all your sins

 

Confess that you believe Jesus is the Son of God

 

Being Baptized

 

Saved

 

Live faithfully and strictly to the Bible

 

Die

 

Heaven

 

 

 

My take on it according to my understanding of the Bible is different:

 

Born

 

Realizing Right from Wrong (when you've matured and realized what sin is)

 

Hearing the word of God

 

Believing the word of God

 

Repent of all your sins

 

Confess that you believe Jesus is the Son of God and give your life to him. Follow him and love him as your Lord and Savior.

 

Being Baptized- the guy on the cross next to Jesus wasn't baptized and he went to heaven because he trusted in Christ as his savior. Baptism doesn't save you, it's just something we do because we were told to as well as it being a public acknowledgment of faith.

 

Saved

 

Live faithfully and strictly to the Bible - This is kinda getting into legalism right here. Our acts don't guarantee if we are saved or not. We can't rely on anything we have done or how well we follow the Bible exactly through life. What God wants from us is our love. If we love him we will behave a certain way because we know it disappoints God if we don't. The focus needs to be on the loving God above all else and repenting of our sin because our sin separates us from God. If your heart is truly following God then the loving others and obeying his commandments will follow naturally because those things please God.

 

Die

 

Heaven

[venomai]

Physical needs? What about food and water?

 

And what about those innocents who have not been baptized? God loves them, yet he does not welcome them to Heaven?

 

According to the Bible - those who have never heard the Gospel are innocent from sin because of absence of understanding - therefore they will go to Heaven.

 

And what of those who have heard the Gospel, yet choose not to follow it? Do they not deserve Heaven simply because they embrace another religion, perhaps a religion that they have lived their entire lives with?

 

 

 

Venomai, you have seemed to me as very logical person and thats why i'm little bit suprised to see that you believe in some kind of after life. Can I ask you what leads you to this conclusion? I'm very curious. And what urges you into beliveing something you don't know for sure? Meaning, why can't you accept that you don't know?

 

Well, as I've said, my beliefs tend to change often, and new experiences and sciences often leads me to question them. My belief in the afterlife isn't "set in stone" and I don't completely accept it -- right now it's more speculation than anything. However, in time, I hope to experience the non-physical world (while living) to explore the afterlife in detail.

 

 

 

Of course, it would be difficult to experience the afterlife without dying. A more suitable term would be otherlife, as I see it; the non-physical environment that energy exists in.

 

 

 

This all started a couple months ago. Before then, I was quite sure that there was no such thing as the afterlife or a non-physical world. I've since become more open to the idea of the non-physical world, and perhaps even afterlife.

 

 

 

This happened when I began reading about out of body experiences (OBE) and astral projection. I heard a lot about it on psychedelic drug and IDoser forums, so naturally I assumed that it was an experience created entirely by the mind's imagination. When I read further into self-induced OBEs, I realized that perhaps there is more to it than pure imagination.

 

 

 

I got the book Adventures Beyond the Body by William Buhlman for a little more information on the subject, and it turned out to be a very interesting read. I don't agree completely with Buhlman, but he backs up his arguments with a lot of convincing evidence (much of it from Einstein and others) and many of his explanations seem very logical.

 

 

 

Since then, I've been trying to experience the non-physical world on my own to see if his arguments hold true. I haven't had an OBE yet but I suspect I will in time. :)

 

 

 

Here's an online book about OBEs... it's not the best and I'm skeptical about a lot of the stuff he writes, but it's a good read nevertheless.

 

http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html

[Ambassadar]

I'm not a christian (or an adherent of any other religion for that matter), but one of my parents is, so I was baptized at birth, way before hearing the 'word of God' Eh?

 

There are a few denominations like the Presbyterians that do infant baptism. It has something to do with the pact God made with Abraham and his son Isaac. I grew up Presbyterian and the infant baptism thing doesn't really make sense to me. I've never seen any Biblical basis for it.

 

 

 

What about people who hear a different word of God? A person being born into China, India, Palestine... Will very likely never even hear of the Bible.

 

I don't know the answer to this because to my knowledge the Bible doesn't specifically answer it. All we really have to go on is the nature of God and a few verses that relate. I thought these two links were interesting when I was trying to find you a better answer than my own. My own opinion is I don't know at this moment to give you an answer.

 

http://www.kencollins.com/question-26.htm

 

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/unreached.html

[BlueLancer]

 

Here's an online book about OBEs... it's not the best and I'm skeptical about a lot of the stuff he writes, but it's a good read nevertheless.

 

http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html

 

 

 

Well he does have a good point when questioning his own catholic faith:

 

 

 

But even what I read in the Bible didn't agree with my Catholic belief system! Heavy questions nagged in my heart. Why does the Catholic church insist that Jesus is the son of God, when Jesus called himself the "son of man" repeatedly? Why do they pray, "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you" then immediately they receive him? Why do they pray for their own petty interests instead of entrusting that God would take care of the world? Why do they preach about needing to fear God? Why do they hold carnivals and bingo games when Jesus said not to use a place of worship in these ways, and even kicked moneychangers out of a temple? Why, indeed, do they pass a money plate in church? Why do they spend millions and millions of dollars on grandiose churches-- have you ever seen St. Peters Basilica? --when people are starving? Why do they call the pope, "our holy father" when Jesus said not to call anyone father (Matthew 23:9)? Why do the Catholics go to church and pray in public when Jesus said, "when you pray, go into a room by yourself...in your secret place" (Matthew 6:5). Why do people go to church on Sunday and are unspiritual the rest of the week? It seemed wrong that, as a Catholic, going to church was my obligation and, once fulfilled, I was free to be as mundane and unspiritual as I wanted.

 

 

 

As for his OBE's... You'd just have to take his word for it instead of thinking he was most likely hallucinating.

[unorclan]

And what of those who have heard the Gospel, yet choose not to follow it? Do they not deserve Heaven simply because they embrace another religion, perhaps a religion that they have lived their entire lives with?

 

 

 

Everyone will be judged by God on how much opportunity they had to follow the Gospel and how well whoever told them or however they learned did to teach them.

 

They are innocent if they heard it once but barely understood it or comprehended how serious it was.

 

But if they had studied and realized the seriousness and how real it really is and decided to reject it - most likely they dont go to heaven, but honestly I do not know 100% because I do not have the right to be the Judge.

[unorclan]

 

My take on it according to my understanding of the Bible is different:

 

Born

 

Realizing Right from Wrong (when you've matured and realized what sin is)

 

Hearing the word of God

 

Believing the word of God

 

Repent of all your sins

 

Confess that you believe Jesus is the Son of God and give your life to him. Follow him and love him as your Lord and Savior.

 

Being Baptized- the guy on the cross next to Jesus wasn't baptized and he went to heaven because he trusted in Christ as his savior. Baptism doesn't save you, it's just something we do because we were told to as well as it being a public acknowledgment of faith.

 

Saved

 

Live faithfully and strictly to the Bible - This is kinda getting into legalism right here. Our acts don't guarantee if we are saved or not. We can't rely on anything we have done or how well we follow the Bible exactly through life. What God wants from us is our love. If we love him we will behave a certain way because we know it disappoints God if we don't. The focus needs to be on the loving God above all else and repenting of our sin because our sin separates us from God. If your heart is truly following God then the loving others and obeying his commandments will follow naturally because those things please God.

 

Die

 

Heaven

 

 

 

I know if i reply to this post the entire topic will be turned upside down and become a debate on religion and the Bible - not if God is real.

 

So, if you want to discuss this then please feel free to PM me (I love discussing this kind of stuff)

 

 

 

 

I'm not a christian (or an adherent of any other religion for that matter), but one of my parents is, so I was baptized at birth, way before hearing the 'word of God' :-s

 

 

 

Yes, well, as I said further up, I'll gladly PM back and forth with you to discuss this.

 

Because according to the Bible everything done in word or deed must be authorized by God's word - and nowhere is baptizing babies authorized, and there's even more about this that we can talk about through PMs.

 

 

 

What about people who hear a different word of God? A person being born into China, India, Palestine, Indonesia, some African countries, Arab countries... Will very likely never even hear of the Bible, and those people comprise about 50% of the world's population.

 

They are innocent and not guilty of any sin against God - it's not their fault for not knowing it.

 

But it's my strong belief that few go through life without seeing or hearing something about the word of God.

 

Hundreds of thousands of Christian missionaries are going out to all these countries daily to get the word out.

[NorthernHero]

Hundreds of thousands of Christian missionaries are going out to all these countries daily to get the word out.

 

Yeah, we hear that. Can you please tell them to stop? its kinda annoying sometimes :?

 

Just joking :P

 

 

 

On a more serious note, does it actually read in the bible that people who haven't heard the word of god are inconent and go to heaven? Because some time ago me and my father were debating cristianity and god and he has read the bible propably several times (I haven't) and I asked him this question and he didin't know the answer.