Pokemon Thread

[ghjkl]

I just recently started using cb azumarill and I love it.

Revenges dory, rando, terakion, that moth thing, and basically half the dangerous setup sweepers in the metgame. It also 1hkos natteori on the switch with superpower.

[Demoli]

Ya, azumarril is amazing this meta, but it gets stopped cold by Lati@s, or a well predicted Nattorei. Plus, after several switch ins, it'll get it's health witted down.

 

I also made my first RMT, I'm open for suggestions apart from a few cores (Landlos, Latios and Nattorei are staying).

 

BTW, my ranking so far:

(20:49:16) +RankingBot: Your rank in Standard OU is 121/21680!

120-demoli-1314

 

 

Doing better than expected :P

 

Edit:

(21:07:35) +RankingBot: Your rank in Standard OU is 100/21685!

Yay top 100 :) :)

[foursideking]

Lol...amazing how the 5th gen seemed to skrew over the entire metagame. Kinda annoying though that drizzle/swift swim are banned, seeing as if they were allowed, rain teams would decimate the OU/ubers...

[Demoli]

In all honesty, i prefer this new metagame to Gen IV's (at least late gen IV), Gen 4 was jsut so boring, you had to have a check for everything and play it accordingly. With Gen V on the other hand, team building is much harder to try and accomplish, but it's also much more rewarding in the end.

 

Team preview also adds another layer of strategy, to not only surprise, but to outpredict your opponent with obscure sets both on regular pokes and NU gimmicks. Dream world is another aspect of team building i love, and while there are certain threats that are downright annoying (Latis, Dory, Nattorei and Chan/Blissey, Metagross and Gliscor), once you have your team and style of play figured out, you can succeed even with the most unorthodox team.

 

These aspects combined show a deeper layer of strategy then the previous "Oh, a Scizor, let me switch to hippowdon/Machamp/Heatran, outpredict a switch and keep on going". Gen V ftw! :thumbup:

[foursideking]

Gen4's predictability made it so much better though. You could literally sit there and, provided you knew what was threatening, could counter everything that came after you. Now they add 100new pkmn and a bunch of new moves, and it feels like the beginning of gen 3...

[Orpheus]

Gen4's predictability made it so much better though. You could literally sit there and, provided you knew what was threatening, could counter everything that came after you. Now they add 100new pkmn and a bunch of new moves, and it feels like the beginning of gen 3...

Not necessarily a bad thing. Gen 3 had the most balanced metagame, where almost everything could be used effectively.

[Zaaps1]

With Drizzle/Swift Swim dead, how effective do you guys think Rain Stall will be?

 

Certainly not as immediately menacing as hail or sand stall, but you have stuff like Trollsect with Rain Dish and Vaporeon with Hydration. Tentacruel can set down Toxic Spikes as well, and Ferrothorn can lay down spikes with you have Vaporeon or something phaze. Subroost Zapdos was also one of the best stallers of Gen IV, and now with Lightning Rod, it comes with an additional immunity.

[foursideking]

But with zapdos' lightningrod, it kinda kills off its stall-effect. I'd rather have my opp's pp halved than make zapdos a t'bolt target...

[Zaaps1]

But with zapdos' lightningrod, it kinda kills off its stall-effect. I'd rather have my opp's pp halved than make zapdos a t'bolt target...

That's true, Subroost Zapdos is a pro PP staller.

[Alg]

On an unrelated note, the shiny gen2 trio required for the Zoroark event is being offered over Wi-Fi for both Europe and North America. They're offering one gerbil per week, starting with Raikou from today until the 13th, continuing with Entei from the 14th to the 20th, and finishing with Suicune from the 21st to the 27th. You can get them with any fourth gen game.

[Demoli]

I took a shot at using this zapdos at a new stall team i'm working for casual use/tournments and it did wonders to any kind of team:

 

Zapdos@Leftovers

Modest

200SpA, 252 HP, 56 SpD

Pressure

-Roost

-Toxic

-T-Bolt/Thunder (when i use it in rain stall teams)

-Freefall

 

Toxic anything, then use Freefall on it. 3 turns of toxic are guaranteed if you succeed on freefalling the same poke. The 200 SpA EVs+Modest is to do some heavy damage on steels. Works really great, couple it with Nattorei for spikes and SR since it forces quite a few switches. Skarmory also works as a physical variant of this.

[Methud]

Wow ive been away for a long time from battling. Any major moves from ou to uu or vice versa. I mainly play uu.

[Demoli]

If you mean Gen 4 UU, the only thing i can remember is Heracross going down to UU, as for Gen 5, Smogon is still judging the Tiers.

 

In a related note, I've been also trying a double dancing Terakion and it eats faces. Really.

[foursideking]

Chansey went up to bl, blissey dropped to bl, and just about everything that relied on 'trick room' sunk to uu/nu. Oh, and I'm pretty sure bronzong fell to nu...

[Demoli]

blissey dropped to bl,

 

[Alg]

Those psychic attacks that hit physical defense can't be good for it, and I'm thinking Reuni replaced her for special walling.

[foursideking]

This gen was filled with blissey's 2 big weaknesses: physical attacks and fighting-types. In ubers, she's wrecked by 80% of the tier, and in ou, she fails in comparison to other, more solid walls. Heck, in bl, she's outclassed by evo-stone chansey...

[Demoli]

Blissey (and chansey for that matter) are still the go-to special walls. Only physical ubers can wreck her, and while specs blue fire doesn some heavy damage, you must still notice that in OU she still gets her job done and more. Yeah, Reuniclus can wall stuff too, specially after some Calm minds, but he can't cure your team's status nor heal a team mate for 350~ HP.

 

Both Chansey and Blissey are, to this day, the best special walls in the game, bar ubers (where it could still be debateable versus Lugia and Giratina).

 

On the note of Psycho Shock (since Break is for mewtwo in ubers), Specs Latios can't 0HKO a 252/0 impish blissey without either some heavy entrance damage or a crit, and i talk from experience (unless everybody started to use 252/252 calm blissey).

 

I can agree that, however, Chansey takes hits better. It can't use special attacks though, sicne it's SpA is too low.

 

Also, apart from Gliscor and Nattorei, Blissey is the guy i most see in high ranked matches.

[Buzzcut3]

Honestly I'd argue that the game is physically oriented BECAUSE of Blissey/Chansey. Psycho Shock is only worthwhile to hit Blissey and Chansey.

 

And Demoli, do you want a bump/rate on your RMT that you posted a few days ago? I don't normally post on any because I feel like I change people's teams to fit my play-style, but I do have slight nitpicks such as your Jirachi set/Rapid Spin on Dory.

[Orpheus]

Honestly I'd argue that the game is physically oriented BECAUSE of Blissey/Chansey. Psycho Shock is only worthwhile to hit Blissey and Chansey.

 

And Demoli, do you want a bump/rate on your RMT that you posted a few days ago? I don't normally post on any because I feel like I change people's teams to fit my play-style, but I do have slight nitpicks such as your Jirachi set/Rapid Spin on Dory.

Psycho Shock does have a use against other CM abusers. You will stomp them outright with CM abuse in most cases, then Psycho Shock for the OHKO or 2HKO.

[foursideking]

You could argue though that with all the change in gen5, cress has become more viable than blissey. Cress has more solid def, can be used as a physical and special wall, and has access to calm mind. It isn't that blissey is bad, it is just that everything around it has seemingly gotten better...

[Zaaps1]

You could argue though that with all the change in gen5, cress has become more viable than blissey. Cress has more solid def, can be used as a physical and special wall, and has access to calm mind. It isn't that blissey is bad, it is just that everything around it has seemingly gotten better...

 

The problem with Cresselia is that it can't pass Wish or use any reliable recovery move, for that matter. The best it gets is Moonlight, and with weather so important this Gen, you don't need a Tyranitar or Hippo on the team to totally screw over Cresselia.

 

Whereas Blissey can still tank hits very well and can pass 400HP+ wishes. Smart predictions centering around this strategy give you an enormous edge. For most Pokes, 400HP wish is essentially the same thing as fully healing. Since you receive it at the end of the turn, you're guaranteed to start the next turn with max HP, healing damage from the incoming attack, entry hazards, and weather (iirc).

[Buzzcut3]

Honestly I'd argue that the game is physically oriented BECAUSE of Blissey/Chansey. Psycho Shock is only worthwhile to hit Blissey and Chansey.

 

And Demoli, do you want a bump/rate on your RMT that you posted a few days ago? I don't normally post on any because I feel like I change people's teams to fit my play-style, but I do have slight nitpicks such as your Jirachi set/Rapid Spin on Dory.

Psycho Shock does have a use against other CM abusers. You will stomp them outright with CM abuse in most cases, then Psycho Shock for the OHKO or 2HKO.

 

I prefer to not let any Poke set up, but I mean, if a Virizion is trying to set up CM's and you have a Deoxys/Froslass/fast bug thing setting up spikes and you know you have a Latios/Latias with Psycho Shock, it would be beneficial. Seems oddly specific, but then again I rarely play stall so it may come up more than I think.

[foursideking]

@zaaps: true, however, for most walls to be good, they have to have 3 things;

 

1) High defensive stats- cress has high def/spec def with med hp, wheras blissey has high spec def/hp with low (base10) def.

2) Access to stalling moves- cress has t'wave, toxic (iirc), and moonlight, wheras blissey has softboiled and serene grace/bolt-beam abuse

3) Versatility- cress has levitate, meaning it takes 0damage off spikes, as well as the ever-popular earthquake. Blissey has the ability to pass wishes to teammates.

 

When it comes right down to it, they're both seemingly even except for the versatility. Any blissey carrying wish is either dead by pursuit before the switch, or dead once the switch-in gets killed by the incoming attack. As an overall wall, blissey is a 1 way mirror, with a see-through physical defense and a shiny/reflective special defense. Cress has both sides covered, and in a game where you now have to prepare for both sides, I'd rather not die to mach punch...

[Buzzcut3]

@zaaps: true, however, for most walls to be good, they have to have 3 things;

 

1) High defensive stats- cress has high def/spec def with med hp, wheras blissey has high spec def/hp with low (base10) def.

2) Access to stalling moves- cress has t'wave, toxic (iirc), and moonlight, wheras blissey has softboiled and serene grace/bolt-beam abuse

3) Versatility- cress has levitate, meaning it takes 0damage off spikes, as well as the ever-popular earthquake. Blissey has the ability to pass wishes to teammates.

 

When it comes right down to it, they're both seemingly even except for the versatility. Any blissey carrying wish is either dead by pursuit before the switch, or dead once the switch-in gets killed by the incoming attack. As an overall wall, blissey is a 1 way mirror, with a see-through physical defense and a shiny/reflective special defense. Cress has both sides covered, and in a game where you now have to prepare for both sides, I'd rather not die to mach punch...

 

You're over-simplifying it. Yes, both have high defense, but if you EV Blissey in Def like all should, then it can take a lot more hits defensively. EV's raise a stat by a specific number, not a certain percentage, so defense EV's are very noticable on Bliss, and with it's massive HP it can take a load of punishment.

 

Yes, Cress has access to stalling moves, but so does Bliss, and Blissey's are better than Cress's (Wish/Softboiled as opposed to Moonlight, both get T-wave and Toxic).

 

Entry hazards don't matter when you can heal the damage off reliably, which Blissey can but Cress can't if there's weather on the field (and that's very common nowadays).

 

A CB Tyranitar using Pursuit does 399 - 471 HP to a Blissey that's switching, which is 55.9% - 66% of it's HP. How is it dead by any Pursuit? A CB Machamp Mach Punch (it doesn't learn Mach Punch, but it has a sky high attack boosted by Choice Band, so it's a reasonable comparison) does even less damage than a Tyranitar CB Pursuit. Granted, Blissey can't stall it out, but it isn't even close to a OHKO.

 

The only reason Cress isn't used is because it's set-up bait (it CAN toxic stall, but other than that it isn't doing anything), and it can't reliably recover outside of Moonlight (33% IIRC in Sandstorm/Rain) and rest. Honestly, in this metagame, the best bet for Cress is to go max defense and HP and boost with CM, and even then Reuniclus does that better with access to Recover, Magic Guard, and higher special attack. It can also possibly stall better with Ninetails to keep sun on the field, making Moonlight heal 66% IIRC. Other than that, it's just outclassed due to every fighting type having either U-turn, Payback, or stat boosting move.