Pokemon Thread

[Alg]

 

Umbreon - Curse, Payback, Body Slam, Wish/Moonlight

 

 

 

Umbreon is not a very good in-game Pokemon as a whole, thanks to its poor movepool. However, one of the more competitive sets with some modification may suit you pretty well. Curse raises your attack and defense, at the cost of your abysmal speed stat (no loss there). Use it as many times as you feel safe, up to 6, and Payback / Body Slam will do serious damage to a lot of things. Body Slam gets the benefit of Paralysis though. Payback does extra if you get hit before you attack, so low speed is actually beneficial.

 

 

I'd disagree here a bit. My Umbreon has Mean Look, Toxic, Moonlight, and probably something like Faint Attack. It's only been used on Shoddy Battle, but if I can trap something that can't damage it much, it's great. I've always figured Umbreon was more for support and generally soaking hits instead of direct attacks... Though Payback would fit :lol:

[Soma2035]

 

Umbreon - Curse, Payback, Body Slam, Wish/Moonlight

 

 

 

Umbreon is not a very good in-game Pokemon as a whole, thanks to its poor movepool. However, one of the more competitive sets with some modification may suit you pretty well. Curse raises your attack and defense, at the cost of your abysmal speed stat (no loss there). Use it as many times as you feel safe, up to 6, and Payback / Body Slam will do serious damage to a lot of things. Body Slam gets the benefit of Paralysis though. Payback does extra if you get hit before you attack, so low speed is actually beneficial.

 

 

I'd disagree here a bit. My Umbreon has Mean Look, Toxic, Moonlight, and probably something like Faint Attack. It's only been used on Shoddy Battle, but if I can trap something that can't damage it much, it's great. I've always figured Umbreon was more for support and generally soaking hits instead of direct attacks... Though Payback would fit :lol:

 

 

 

He's playing in-game, not shoddy. Umbreon has a few effective competitive sets, but none of them are really suited for going through in-game. In general, you never want a purely defensive Pokemon for in-game play. It's just not worth it. And it doesn't sound like he's using his Eevee team in battle tower.

 

 

 

However, Spark is useless even in-game... and I'm still not sure where he was getting bubblebeam on Glaceon. :D

 

 

 

[hide=Old Team]Drapion - Poison/Dark - Toxic Plate

 

 

 

*Toxic

 

*Poison Jab

 

*Crunch

 

*Substitute

 

 

 

Infernape - Fire/Fighting - Flame Plate

 

 

 

*Close Combat

 

*Flare Blitz

 

*Rest

 

*Sleep Talk

 

 

 

Metagross - Steel/Psychic - Iron Plate

 

 

 

*Earthquake

 

*Zen Headbutt

 

*Meteor Smash

 

*Light Screen[/hide]

 

 

 

First, you have a major problem with psynergy here. That is, your team doesn't work together at all. You have 3 Pokemon vulnerable to ground attacks. While you've selected good moves on each of them, the moves themselves don't work together well.

 

 

 

Right away, the items have to go. Sorry but a 20% boost to a specific type isn't worth the slot. Before you assemble your team, collect these:

 

- Leftovers

 

- Choice Band

 

- Choice Scarf

 

- Choice Specs

 

- Focus Sash

 

- Life Orb

 

 

 

These are some of the more common, and very good items. Of course depending on your team, you may also want a few other items.

 

- Light Clay (Screen Support)

 

- Damp Rock / Heat Rock (Weather Support)

 

 

 

Now for your team in particular. Infernape and Metagross are both great Pokemon. Infernape is versatile and fast. Metagross is bulky, and a great physical fighter. Unfortunately, Drapion isn't quite as good. Since all three are weak to ground, I would suggest getting rid of Drapion right away.

 

 

 

Now the biggest thing with any BT team is the lead. You only have three Pokemon, and the first one will practically define the battle for you. A typical competitive lead is a BAD idea, seeing as those leads are meant for much longer battles. So let's take a look at our options.

 

 

 

- We can cripple their lead. This is done via Thunderwave, Will-O-Wisp, Spore, or other statuses. Trick also tends to do the job.

 

- We could overpower their lead. For this, you'd want a fast attacker, and I mean FAST. It also needs to be strong enough to take them down almost always in a single hit.

 

- We could set up for the rest of your team.

 

 

 

If you opt for the first, then here would be a good lead:

 

 

 

Breloom @ Choice Scarf

 

Jolly, 252 Attack, 252 Speed

 

- Spore

 

- Trick

 

- Leech Seed

 

- Substitute

 

 

 

Spore immediately, taking advantage of your ridiculously high speed thanks to choice scarf. Then run away. Either they'll keep sleeping, or they'll go to another Pokemon. Later on, bring Breloom back in if you have a chance, and either Spore again... or give THEM the choice scarf, making them fast, but unable to switch moves. Leech Seed + Substitute are really filler, although if you get a chance you could seed, then continually use substitute to drain their HP. If you reach this point, Breloom has already done its job.

 

 

 

Accompanying this, you would want two Pokemon that are good for setting up. I would recommend Metagross, since it's less likely to fall in one hit if they chose to switch.

 

 

 

Metagross @ Leftovers

 

Adamant, 100 Hp, 252 Attack, 156 Speed

 

- Agility

 

- Meteor Mash

 

- Earthquake

 

- Explosion

 

 

 

Switch in Metagross when the opponent is asleep, and use agility. Bam. Now you're packing nearly 400 speed and can smash through whatever he's got.

 

 

 

Following this, you'll probably want a special-based fighter. Also, since you've already got two speed-based Pokemon, your last Pokemon would be best to rely on defense instead.

 

 

 

Zapdos @ Leftovers

 

Calm, 252 HP, 200 Special Defense, 56 Speed

 

- Roost

 

- Thunderbolt

 

- Heatwave

 

- Reflect

 

 

 

Thunderbolt and Heatwave are a bit weak thanks to the lack of Special Attack EVs. However, it's something you can deal with. Zapdos has excellent attack regardless, and with Reflect, can take physical hits as well as special hits. Roost recovers very well.

 

 

 

[hide=New Team]Breloom @ Choice Scarf

 

Jolly, 252 Attack, 252 Speed

 

- Spore

 

- Trick

 

- Leech Seed

 

- Substitute

 

 

 

Metagross @ Leftovers

 

Adamant, 100 Hp, 252 Attack, 156 Speed

 

- Agility

 

- Meteor Mash

 

- Earthquake

 

- Explosion

 

 

 

Zapdos @ Leftovers

 

Calm, 252 HP, 200 Special Defense, 56 Speed

 

- Roost

 

- Thunderbolt

 

- Heatwave

 

- Reflect[/hide]

 

 

 

If you favor one of the other options, post, and also post some other Pokemon that you like.

[civie]

Thanks for the help. I am planning on trading the eeveelutions from another game, or if not able to, hack 'em (I know, I fail)

 

 

 

And Tyranitar, Charizard and Gengar/Alakazam is my favourite team (if it were real these four would be my only pokemon I would ever use)

[RayOxide]

Imo Alakazam owns Gengar hard. Unless Gengar has dream eater combo. :thumbup:

[Faux]

Can you replace Zapdos? I'm not really a fan of legendary pokemons in my team.

 

 

 

Other pokemons would be Kingdra, Spiritomb, and Honchkrow

[Soma2035]

Imo Alakazam owns Gengar hard. Unless Gengar has dream eater combo. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Uhh. No. Dream eater is silly.

 

 

 

If you're playing with or against Platinum, don't even use hypnosis. Platinum nerfed Hypnosis to 60% accuracy.

 

 

 

If you're playing with and against D/P, then you have better things to do with free turns than Dream Eater. Psychic attacks as a whole aren't very useful thanks to all the good dark and steel types (Scizor, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Metagross, etc). The healing is nice, but it usually doesn't amount to much. Besides, in BT or against any decent player, you can expect them to switch out a sleeping Pokemon... unless it's a sleep talker, which is bulky enough to take the dream eater and smash your Gengar to pieces.

 

 

 

Shadowball has better type coverage, STAB, and the same secondary effect as Psychic. Focus Blast expands your type coverage to include pretty much every Pokemon in the game at neutral. If you're using Hypnosis, go with Substitute and carry leftovers.

 

 

 

Alakazam was great when Fire Punch / Thunder Punch / Ice Punch were special attacks. Unfortunately, with DPP, Alakazam's movepool is limited. Both Gengar and Alakazam are fast and have high special attack. However, Gengar has a huge advantage in that it is immune to 3 types of attacks, two of which are very common. Alakazam is immune to 0. Both are frail enough to be mashed to bits by any decent fighter, so it's very hard to get an Alakazam in safely.

 

 

 

Alakazam isn't bad at all, it's just outclassed. If you're playing in-game or battle tower, feel free to use either one, they're both excellent. But don't use dream eater... :wall:

 

 

 

[hide=Me Forgetting who said this]Can you replace Zapdos? I'm not really a fan of legendary pokemons in my team.

 

 

 

Other pokemons would be Kingdra, Spiritomb, and Honchkrow[/hide]

 

 

 

Kingdra isn't suited to your team at all. If you want to use Kingdra, you'll need a team specifically built around it. I don't know much about Honchkrow, but looking at its stats, it's probably not the best choice.

 

 

 

Spiritomb can work, but you'll need a healing move. If you really don't want Zapdos, try:

 

 

 

Spiritomb @ Leftovers

 

Calm, 252 HP, 152 Special Defense, 104 Defense

 

- Sleep Talk

 

- Rest

 

- Dark Pulse

 

- Calm Mind

 

 

 

Use Calm Mind to raise Dark Pulse's power, then when you get low, go to sleep and spam sleep talk. This'll soak up status effects well, but is less versatile for fighting.

[RayOxide]

Imo Alakazam owns Gengar hard. Unless Gengar has dream eater combo. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Uhh. No. Dream eater is silly.

 

 

 

If you're playing with or against Platinum, don't even use hypnosis. Platinum nerfed Hypnosis to 60% accuracy.

 

 

 

If you're playing with and against D/P, then you have better things to do with free turns than Dream Eater. Psychic attacks as a whole aren't very useful thanks to all the good dark and steel types (Scizor, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Metagross, etc). The healing is nice, but it usually doesn't amount to much. Besides, in BT or against any decent player, you can expect them to switch out a sleeping Pokemon... unless it's a sleep talker, which is bulky enough to take the dream eater and smash your Gengar to pieces.

 

 

 

In D/P hypnosis hits kinda accurately, sleep on average is, what, 2 turns? So thats 2 turns of a 100% hitting and 50% healing attack. Sleep talk cant hit gengar.

 

And if they switch out then you switch out -.-

[Dracion1]

Just found an old copy of pokemon gold recently, I've managed to beat the third gym so far. Any recommendations on what pokemon I should get? :P I've only got 3 at the moment, Level 20 somethings Weepinbell and Quilava, and the level 5 Togepi from the egg. Also, how well does the time capsule work using the wireless connection on the Gameboy colour? I've got some pokemon on red I'd quite like to trade over.

[RayOxide]

Well, you have 3 pokemon; Weepinbell, and Quilava, and Togefail. So you need 4 more, 'cause Togepi kinda sucks.

 

 

 

I suggest a water type; I havent played my crystal in a LONG time, so I cant remember any of them.

 

A strong type of pokemon, no real idea what or where, but I think herracross is available at the time.

 

 

 

I cant really help much about it, nor about the time capsule, but if you can, I hope you have a squirtle (or evolutions) Blastoise owns.

 

 

 

Err.. Last time I checked, around the 3rd badge you should have 6 pokemon o.o

 

Anyway, if I find my crystal I'll see what I've done on it :P

[Faux]

Just found an old copy of pokemon gold recently, I've managed to beat the third gym so far. Any recommendations on what pokemon I should get? :P I've only got 3 at the moment, Level 20 somethings Weepinbell and Quilava, and the level 5 Togepi from the egg. Also, how well does the time capsule work using the wireless connection on the Gameboy colour? I've got some pokemon on red I'd quite like to trade over.

 

 

 

I had Typhlosion, Dragonite, Snorlax, Alakazam, Nidoking, Gyarados iirc. It's been a while since I played.

[PoorLepRecon]

Just found an old copy of pokemon gold recently, I've managed to beat the third gym so far. Any recommendations on what pokemon I should get? :P I've only got 3 at the moment, Level 20 somethings Weepinbell and Quilava, and the level 5 Togepi from the egg. Also, how well does the time capsule work using the wireless connection on the Gameboy colour? I've got some pokemon on red I'd quite like to trade over.

 

 

 

 

 

I suggest getting a Lanturn. It is a water/electric type that will come in handy. Also a Noctowl for psychic/flying moves. You could also try a Quagsire, a water/ground type. Oh, and a crobat is a personal favorite of mine, a flying/poison type.

[Soma2035]

Imo Alakazam owns Gengar hard. Unless Gengar has dream eater combo. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Uhh. No. Dream eater is silly.

 

 

 

If you're playing with or against Platinum, don't even use hypnosis. Platinum nerfed Hypnosis to 60% accuracy.

 

 

 

If you're playing with and against D/P, then you have better things to do with free turns than Dream Eater. Psychic attacks as a whole aren't very useful thanks to all the good dark and steel types (Scizor, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Metagross, etc). The healing is nice, but it usually doesn't amount to much. Besides, in BT or against any decent player, you can expect them to switch out a sleeping Pokemon... unless it's a sleep talker, which is bulky enough to take the dream eater and smash your Gengar to pieces.

 

 

 

In D/P hypnosis hits kinda accurately, sleep on average is, what, 2 turns? So thats 2 turns of a 100% hitting and 50% healing attack. Sleep talk cant hit gengar.

 

And if they switch out then you switch out -.-

 

 

 

A) Sleep talk CAN hit Gengar. SNORE can't hit Gengar. Sleep Talk is used, Snore isn't... for obvious reasons.

 

B) If they switch out, then you switch out, you're giving them a free turn to setup... + in competitive play and in battle tower, you are prohibiting yourself from using hypnosis again.

 

C) 60% isn't "kinda accurately", it's 60%.

 

 

 

For the sake of argument, let's say you have a Gengar at 65%. That way dream eater's recovery does matter.

 

 

 

You put them to sleep.

 

 

 

A) They let you hit them with dream eater. That means either you're doing less than 30%, which means they can wake up and recover away... so you get some free healing, but leftovers could've achieved this, or it means they're carrying sleep talk.

 

 

 

B) They run away. That means they're going to a Pokemon that Gengar probably can't do much to. No Hypnosis, because of sleep clause. So now you get to run, that means either they can pursuit, and no more Gengar, or it means they can Dragon Dance / Swords Dance / Calm Mind / Curse / Nasty Plot / Agility.

 

 

 

Alternatively, if you used substitute,

 

 

 

A) They stayed in. Now you have a substitute, and you can use Focus Blast / Shadowball from behind the Substitute, both of which are more powerful than Dream Eater. Leftovers will heal you up while they're asleep, and if they wake up, you can just sleep them again. However, if they sleep talk, you lose a substitute and 25% hp. Then you can bring your Gengar out.

 

 

 

B) They run away. You set up a sub. Pursuit? Blocked by Sub while you blast them to pieces. Setup? Blast them to pieces. Focus Blast + Shadowball covers most things. To beat you, they're going to have to go for something faster than you are, or something VERY high in special defense. If it's the latter, you can still get a free hit while they break your sub, before switching to the appropriate counter.

[Faux]

soma, you wanna play online?

[Soma2035]

soma, you wanna play online?

 

 

 

My current team is on Shoddy, but if you want, I could copy it over to the DS one day. I might revamp it though, the team I use is a bit gimmicky.

[RayOxide]

1 turn of dream eater destroys 3 turns of leftovers wtf?

 

-.-

 

Didnt think it was possible to be so nerdy about IN GAME pokemon

[Soma2035]

1 turn of dream eater destroys 3 turns of leftovers wtf?

 

-.-

 

Didnt think it was possible to be so nerdy about IN GAME pokemon

 

 

 

Being logical =/= being nerdy.

 

 

 

And honestly, have you tried battle tower before? Have you gotten anywhere in it? Even with a well-prepared team I can rarely get past 50 wins or so. It's like any other strategy-based game, there are good strategies, there are bad strategies. If you're playing through the "easy mode", strategies don't matter and whatever works. But when you play against another person, or you play a more challenging part of the game, you need as good of a team as you can get.

 

 

 

So far, every time someone's asked for advice, you've given pretty much the worst possible... it sounds like you've never even tried playing against another person, or going for the Battle Tower star on your trainer card. It's not a bad thing that you want to help, but you should at least accept that your advice isn't always going to be right.

 

 

 

And just for the record, I'm not claiming to be very good at it myself. I'm passable at best, barely managing a 2:1 Win-Loss Ratio on the Smogon Server, which, as anyone who uses it can attest to, isn't really all that good. However, I definitely DO know what works and doesn't work on some of the more common, better Pokemon.

[RayOxide]

How am I giving bad advice?

 

You're the one going on about vsing humans, when the person in matter only wants to finish the game. :roll:

 

 

 

Yes I have tried the battle arena thing but usually I give up cause i get bored.

 

My highest was around the 30-40 mark

[doomy]

I hate the battle tower, seriously, all the luck seems to be against you!

 

My best is about 40 in Double, Multi and Single, then again, I only ever EV trained 1 pokemon which was arcanine, I just use my main game team with movesets set up for double battles...And no other moves then attack or it takes too long, impatience ftw :P

 

 

 

Meh well, I'll go try again... :P

[Soma2035]

How am I giving bad advice?

 

You're the one going on about vsing humans, when the person in matter only wants to finish the game. :roll:

 

 

 

Yes I have tried the battle arena thing but usually I give up cause i get bored.

 

My highest was around the 30-40 mark

 

 

 

Are you even reading? The "person in matter" said that the Tyranitar / Charizard / Alakazam or Gengar team was for battle frontier. AKA Battle Tower.

 

 

 

And yes, the Battle Tower is designed against you. It starts out easy, with your opponent hardly knowing how to switch in, and using pre evolved Pokemon. After you beat the Tycoon the second time, you start seeing well built teams, EV-d correctly... with strategies like:

 

 

 

- Double Teaming Blissey

 

- Double Teaming SubSeeding Ludicolo

 

- Quick Claw OHKO

 

- Choice Sweepers

 

- etc.

 

 

 

Also, it's been proven that standard odds don't apply in battle tower. Hypnosis has 60% in Platinum. Expect maybe 20-30% after you've past 50 in Battle Tower. OHKO is 30% accurate. Don't be surprised at all when your opponent Quick Claws, then OHKO hits, three times in a row. It's happened to dozens of people.

 

 

 

Battle Tower is a significant raise in difficulty over the normal gameplay, because a) EVs are applied, B) Perfect IVs are given, and c) odds are weighed against you. 100% still stays 100%... but bright powder can easily show up and turn your 100% to a 90%. And you'll find yourself missing half the time.

 

 

 

If the computer is using good EVs, IVs, and movesets, and you want to beat it despite the stacked odds, you're going to need to cheat, or have good EVs, IVs, movesets, and even better strategy.

 

 

 

Oh, and be open minded to legendaries. Not all of them are overpowered, in fact, most of them are weaker than some of the non legendary Pokemon. Battle Tower also permits the use of many legendaries, which fit in well with specific other Pokemon.

[Faux]

I hate the battle tower, seriously, all the luck seems to be against you!

 

My best is about 40 in Double, Multi and Single, then again, I only ever EV trained 1 pokemon which was arcanine, I just use my main game team with movesets set up for double battles...And no other moves then attack or it takes too long, impatience ftw :P

 

 

 

Meh well, I'll go try again... :P

 

 

 

wanna play me online?

[RayOxide]

@Soma, idc, didnt really take much notice of how hard BF is.

 

 

 

And yes, I know, many legendaries suck, but lots of them are too good.

 

For many dragon types, I find that they suck, because even though the types of attacks they can learn, are many, dont have a good 'STAB' which is why I dont particularly like any of them. The best dragon type imo is Kingdra.

[Faux]

Kingdra's the most balanced, but he's not the best. His movepool could be better too.

[Soma2035]

@Soma, idc, didnt really take much notice of how hard BF is.

 

 

 

And yes, I know, many legendaries suck, but lots of them are too good.

 

For many dragon types, I find that they suck, because even though the types of attacks they can learn, are many, dont have a good 'STAB' which is why I dont particularly like any of them. The best dragon type imo is Kingdra.

 

 

 

Outrage, Meteor, Dragon Claw, Dragon Pulse. Not to mention, every dragon has a second type with which it can get more STAB moves.

 

 

 

Garchomp - Earthquake. Outrage. Two high power, 100 Accuracy STAB moves... + space for a type coverage move (likely fire fang), and a space for swords dance. Or Dragon Claw if you want to use a dragon attack early in a battle. There's no reason NOT to use Outrage in-game, because most Pokemon in the wild go down in one hit so confusion doesn't matter. Same goes for trainers, just use it when they're down to two Pokemon and it's over.

 

 

 

Kingdra - You mentioned it, and it has great STAB moves. Waterfall and Surf depending on which set you're running.

 

 

 

Salamence - Good point on Salamence... he doesn't really get many good STAB flying moves. But IIRC he gets Aerial Ace, which'll work. Great for in-game thanks to foggy areas, or sandstorm areas + sand veil. Or for battle tower.

 

 

 

You don't need 4 STAB moves. In fact, you very rarely want more than 2 STAB moves. The type that REALLY suffers from lack of STAB is Psychic, simply because it doesn't have many GOOD stab moves.

 

 

 

Zen Headbutt - 80 Power, 90 Accuracy, Physical, flinches

 

Psychic - 90 Power, 100 Accuracy, Special, lowers their special defense

 

 

 

That's really about all of the general psychic moves. You've got a bunch like Confusion and Extrasensory, that are really not very useful. You also have some special ones like... Psycho Boost. Guess what? Not a lot can use Psycho Boost.

 

 

 

On the other hand, let's look at water:

 

 

 

Waterfall - 80 Power, 100 Accuracy, Physical, flinches

 

Surf - 95 Power, 100 Accuracy, Special

 

Hydro Pump - 120 Power, 85 Accuracy, Special

 

Aqua Tail - 90 Power, 90 Accuracy, Physical

 

 

 

Plenty of good choices here, notably the two HMs.

 

 

 

Dragon:

 

 

 

Dragon Claw - 80 Power, 100 Accuracy, Physical

 

Dragon Rush - 100 Power, 75 Accuracy, Physical, flinches

 

Dragon Pulse - 90 Power, 100 Accuracy, Special

 

Outrage - 120 Power, 100 Accuracy, Physical, confuses after 2-3 turns

 

Draco Meteor - 140 Power, 90 Accuracy, Special, lowers your Special Attack

 

 

 

It's not the BEST set, but it's still pretty darn good. Outrage and Draco Meteor are great if you use them correctly. Save outrage for the end of a battle, or carry a Lum berry. Use Draco Meteor on an all physical set. 140 attack + STAB is enough to do a massive amount of damage regardless of all other factors. As long as you only use it once, it's just a godly OHKO move in-game. None of your other moves are affected.

 

 

 

Honestly, just look at that compared to Psychic... can you seriously say Dragons got the shaft with their STABs?

 

 

 

The thing is, you don't need a moveset that has Thunderbolt, Thundershock, Thunder, and Spark. It's just pointless. Thunderbolt or Thunder alone is good... Thundershock and Spark, STAB or not, are simply wasted space. Dragon's don't have a large variety of STAB attacks, but the STAB attacks they have are mostly pretty good. They don't have something silly like.... ember. Or watergun. Or Vine whip.

[doomy]

I hate the battle tower, seriously, all the luck seems to be against you!

 

My best is about 40 in Double, Multi and Single, then again, I only ever EV trained 1 pokemon which was arcanine, I just use my main game team with movesets set up for double battles...And no other moves then attack or it takes too long, impatience ftw :P

 

 

 

Meh well, I'll go try again... :P

 

 

 

wanna play me online?

 

Can't get Wifi, unless I go to a mates place or something, but "hey, can I come round to play pokemon on wifi" sounds pretty strange.

 

 

 

Beat by multi battle record yesterday :thumbsup:

[scootlaboot]

Both put down my pre-order of Platinum at gamestop and picked up shaymin at Toys r us yesterday. Next month I'll have to pick up the Rgigigas that will give access to the regiis on platinum.