Barrows Armor - Not like Jagex had\should have planned?

[Outsanity]

Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

 

 

Do you even slay? If you did you'd know that with a Bunyip most tasks require NO FOOD now. So with Bandos and a Bunyip, you have the advantage over players without it.

 

 

 

I respect your knowledge in other areas, such as the obviously Fight Caves, but in this case you're severely wrong.

[RyderJ]

Maybe Barrows items are easier to get, but it's cheap because, as has been said, it's been out for years. But you also need to think about how GWD hasn't even been out for a year yet, and Bandos has dropped so much already. 26m isn't a set price. There are teams at Bandos on every world think of how many armor pieces enter the market every day. The price will go down, eventually. Just as Barrows did. I see 6m for a pair of tassets in the near future.

[BloodArgon]

One kill takes around 20 minutes to set up and kill, and costs around 200k in potions

 

 

 

Killcount may take 20, but that allows many kills.

 

One kill takes maybe 3 minutes?

 

The tank uses potions, so as a fighter, I rarely RARELY use a single shark per kill.

 

Either way, its not 200k in potions

 

His melee attack is single focus, so only the tank has to worry about hits.

 

Range pray means you are rarely ever hit.

 

 

 

Please, actually GO THERE before you start trashing it?

 

 

 

 

 

Barrows is so easy now because it's been analyzed back into the stone age, and beyond. Not to mention how summoning totally killed the fun in it, I've seen many level 130s doing 12 runs in one hour, sometimes more if they are hitting lucky enough. People have done barrows with the chicken, or even flowers, 5 runs in an hour.

 

 

 

One problem Einstein, how can summoning kill barrows when you can't bring familiars into the tombs? Or even past the swampy boat? Level 130 is just a 126, summoning doesnt increase your combat ability unless you have a familiar with you....

 

 

 

 

 

I wish people would read more. Ill keep editing if I find anymore people who cant read.

[Nenga]

Long read is an understatement. :lol: Anyway degrading of barrows equipment can really get you. I calculated the time it would take me to get 99 from lvl 80 (training at barrows actually). It would cost me 5m. With that 5m I could go out and by dragon with the money I already had. (Which i did go out and buy dragon.) I use barrows in the fights when I can really use the defence or set effects, mainly pvp, but I just do see the use in using barrows all the time and pouring loads of cash into it, or buying an expensive armour and saving money.

 

 

 

the stats the armour I wear around is:

 

Stab: +260

 

Slash: +275

 

Crush: +271

 

Magic: -2

 

Ranged: +243

 

Summoning: +151

 

Strength:+16

 

Prayer: +0

 

 

 

that's only a dragon medium helmet, a dragon chainbody, dragon platelegs, dragon boots, and a dragon square shield, and the barrows colored recipe for disaster gloves.

 

 

 

The stats of full torag is:

 

 

 

Stab: +262

 

Slash: +260

 

Crush: +244

 

Magic: -11

 

Ranged: +286

 

Summoning: +105

 

 

 

So in total with dragon I am loseing

 

Stab: -2

 

Slash: +15

 

Crush: +27

 

Magic: +9

 

Range: -43

 

Summoning: +46

 

 

 

The numbers for the torag were taken from the knowledge base due to me having sold my torag long ago. So in total i'm sacrificing about 91 points and saving millions. I think I can get over that. Also Torags has the best defence out of all the barrows sets.

 

 

 

For barrows being more rare, as the players grow up they by more expensive armour and there weapons and skills usually make up for there lack of defence. If jagex took barrows out of the game now, barrows sets would still circle around like they do today because there are so many sets out there.

[Outsanity]

Somehow I double posted. Don't know how. Sorry. lol.

[compfreak847]

One kill takes around 20 minutes to set up and kill, and costs around 200k in potions

 

 

 

Killcount may take 20, but that allows many kills.

 

One kill takes maybe 3 minutes?

 

The tank uses potions, so as a fighter, I rarely RARELY use a single shark per kill.

 

Either way, its not 200k in potions

 

His melee attack is single focus, so only the tank has to worry about hits.

 

Range pray means you are rarely ever hit.

 

 

 

Please, actually GO THERE before you start trashing it?

 

*Points to signature*

 

I have around 2k bandos kills, and counting. I was talking about soloing, not team. Granted, many will find a team a better choice, and I did mention it, although probably not as much as I should have. Still, you really won't make that good of profit unless you go with a high level team (Don't even talk to me about massacres...), and soloing is often a better option for those high level players. I did some solo bandos, along with plenty of team kills, and decided soloing is the way to go. Now I've for the most part moved on to Sara, but I still believe that you will earn more soloing then with a team.

 

 

 

 

 

Outsanity wrote:

 

 

 

muggiwhplar wrote:Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you even slay? If you did you'd know that with a Bunyip most tasks require NO FOOD now. So with Bandos and a Bunyip, you have the advantage over players without it.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I do, although I only started recently. Yes, I have the summoning level for bunyip. Yes, I've bought bandos. No, I haven't seen the +6 strength as any real advantage. And I have found that there are plenty of tasks where you get hit for more then a bunyip can heal (Hence why I'm getting a unicorn). Admittedly a unicorn isn't really standard equipment for most slayers, but even then is +6 strength really worth that? You'll probably end up spending more time earning money to buy the bandos then it will actually save you, and once you've maxed out your combat skills it is virtually worthless, and will only keep dropping in price. And remember people, this is an opinionated discussion, so although a gigantic comprehensive test on every monster with every combat style and every armor will show one winner, for now this is about opinions, not "right" or "wrong".

[compfreak847]

Long read is an understatement. :lol: Anyway degrading of barrows equipment can really get you. I calculated the time it would take me to get 99 from lvl 80 (training at barrows actually). It would cost me 5m. With that 5m I could go out and by dragon with the money I already had. (Which i did go out and buy dragon.) I use barrows in the fights when I can really use the defence or set effects, mainly pvp, but I just do see the use in using barrows all the time and pouring loads of cash into it, or buying an expensive armour and saving money.

 

 

 

the stats the armour I wear around is:

 

Stab: +260

 

Slash: +275

 

Crush: +271

 

Magic: -2

 

Ranged: +243

 

Summoning: +151

 

Strength:+16

 

Prayer: +0

 

 

 

that's only a dragon medium helmet, a dragon chainbody, dragon platelegs, dragon boots, and a dragon square shield, and the barrows colored recipe for disaster gloves.

 

 

 

The stats of full torag is:

 

 

 

Stab: +262

 

Slash: +260

 

Crush: +244

 

Magic: -11

 

Ranged: +286

 

Summoning: +105

 

 

 

So in total with dragon I am loseing

 

Stab: -2

 

Slash: +15

 

Crush: +27

 

Magic: +9

 

Range: -43

 

Summoning: +46

 

 

 

The numbers for the torag were taken from the knowledge base due to me having sold my torag long ago. So in total i'm sacrificing about 91 points and saving millions. I think I can get over that. Also Torags has the best defence out of all the barrows sets.

 

 

 

For barrows being more rare, as the players grow up they by more expensive armour and there weapons and skills usually make up for there lack of defence. If jagex took barrows out of the game now, barrows sets would still circle around like they do today because there are so many sets out there.

 

Try mixing and matching. Your calculating torag stats as just the helm plate and legs, but using the dragon shield, dragon boots, and barrows gloves. Add the dragon square, boots, and barrows gloves to your torags, and for a much lower cost, you will have significantly increased defence (Or forgoe the dragon shield for a rune defender and get better attack stats, better defence stats, AND lower cost).

[Aquashock]

Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

 

 

Do you even slay? If you did you'd know that with a Bunyip most tasks require NO FOOD now. So with Bandos and a Bunyip, you have the advantage over players without it.

 

 

 

I respect your knowledge in other areas, such as the obviously Fight Caves, but in this case you're severely wrong.

 

 

 

+6 str is only hitting 1 or 2 more damage, but it adds up... to so little it shouldnt matter

[compfreak847]

Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

 

 

Do you even slay? If you did you'd know that with a Bunyip most tasks require NO FOOD now. So with Bandos and a Bunyip, you have the advantage over players without it.

 

 

 

I respect your knowledge in other areas, such as the obviously Fight Caves, but in this case you're severely wrong.

 

 

 

+6 str is only hitting 1 or 2 more damage, but it adds up... to so little it shouldnt matter

 

 

 

Himm, according to Tip.It Max Hit calculator (Flawed I know, but better then nothing), with high level slayer equipment and a reasonable (92) strength level, it takes +5 extra strength bonus to raise your max hit by 1. Counting the 0's you hit, on average bandos is increasing one half of your hits by 1 (Very rough, just using for an example). With a max of 38, assuming you hit an average of 17, or 68 XP, bandos will allow you to hit 18 half the time, or 72 XP. This means bandos top and bottom, on average, will give you ~1/35th more XP (Obvious from the beginning figures, just thought I'd go through it the long way to help people understand). Let's assume you can get 50k XP per hour in any given combat stat while training slayer. 1/35th more means you will be getting 51428 XP per hour with bandos (Exact starting figures do not matter much; it all scales), or 1428 more XP per hour. At 50k XP per hour, it will take approximately 130 hours to get the 6.5 million XP from 92 (halfway) to 99. With bandos, it will take 126.4 hours. So bandos top and bottom is saving you (roughly) 3.6 hours from 92-99 in a given combat skill. Multiply that by 3 combat skills, and you get a total of 10.8 hours worth of saving, from buying a 27M item. Now assuming that item drops to half price in the time it takes to train from 92 to 99 in all melee skills in slayer (Could be far more or far less, depending on how fast you get it and market prices at the time), meaning that you lost 13.5m to save 10.8 hours. So if you can earn more then 1.25M per hour, and you think that you will never have to eat more because of wearing bandos instead of barrows, its worth it. Again, someone will probably try and poke this full of holes for assuming so many things, mainly the large price drop from initial purchase to selling, but it is easy to redo the calculations if you want to substitute what you think are better numbers. Of course, this whole thing is only for discussion purposes, and besides that if you have spare cash sitting around and you never plan on having to earn money again, bandos is probably a smart choice, saving you ~10 hours in maxing out your melee skills and slayer. Now watch the flames come one way or the other for my uncertain figures. :|

 

 

 

Still, this does not include extra eating; there are plenty of tasks where you get hit more then bunyip heals, and unicorn and titan scrolls still cost money.

[Nenga]

Long read is an understatement. :lol: Anyway degrading of barrows equipment can really get you. I calculated the time it would take me to get 99 from lvl 80 (training at barrows actually). It would cost me 5m. With that 5m I could go out and by dragon with the money I already had. (Which i did go out and buy dragon.) I use barrows in the fights when I can really use the defence or set effects, mainly pvp, but I just do see the use in using barrows all the time and pouring loads of cash into it, or buying an expensive armour and saving money.

 

 

 

the stats the armour I wear around is:

 

Stab: +260

 

Slash: +275

 

Crush: +271

 

Magic: -2

 

Ranged: +243

 

Summoning: +151

 

Strength:+16

 

Prayer: +0

 

 

 

that's only a dragon medium helmet, a dragon chainbody, dragon platelegs, dragon boots, and a dragon square shield, and the barrows colored recipe for disaster gloves.

 

 

 

The stats of full torag is:

 

 

 

Stab: +262

 

Slash: +260

 

Crush: +244

 

Magic: -11

 

Ranged: +286

 

Summoning: +105

 

 

 

So in total with dragon I am loseing

 

Stab: -2

 

Slash: +15

 

Crush: +27

 

Magic: +9

 

Range: -43

 

Summoning: +46

 

 

 

The numbers for the torag were taken from the knowledge base due to me having sold my torag long ago. So in total i'm sacrificing about 91 points and saving millions. I think I can get over that. Also Torags has the best defence out of all the barrows sets.

 

 

 

For barrows being more rare, as the players grow up they by more expensive armour and there weapons and skills usually make up for there lack of defence. If jagex took barrows out of the game now, barrows sets would still circle around like they do today because there are so many sets out there.

 

Try mixing and matching. Your calculating torag stats as just the helm plate and legs, but using the dragon shield, dragon boots, and barrows gloves. Add the dragon square, boots, and barrows gloves to your torags, and for a much lower cost, you will have significantly increased defence (Or forgoe the dragon shield for a rune defender and get better attack stats, better defence stats, AND lower cost).

 

I was thinking about updating my post. I'll post the stats below but since most people who use torags use the hammers I wont caculate defence of a dragon square with it.

 

 

 

So lets try this again, the stats of torag:

 

 

 

Stab: +300

 

Slash: +301

 

Crush: +274

 

Magic: -5

 

Ranged: +298

 

Summoning: +126

 

 

 

And then I wear around the stats:

 

 

 

Stab: +260

 

Slash: +275

 

Crush: +271

 

Magic: -2

 

Ranged: +243

 

Summoning: +151

 

Strength:+16

 

Prayer: +0

 

 

 

So:

 

Stab: - 40

 

Slash: -26

 

Crush: -3

 

Magic: +3

 

Ranged: -55

 

Summonong: +25

 

 

 

Few things, it still doesn't beat my dragon by much, i'm still saving loads, and I have a little better magic defence which can determine if you live or die in a pvp minigame. I know i've won a match in clan wars from that before. I'll stick to my dragon, thank you and goodnight.

[TheAncient]

Problem is that barrows came out before any of that other stuff. Jagex realized they couldnt keep on inflating the power of armor so they had to make ways in which the new armor would be slightly weaker but have its own advantages (e.g. range bonus and strength bonus on Bandos, and slight mage attack bonus (probably useless) on 3rd age)

[Rune_User]

Reading this topic actually made me realize the price for bandos isn't worth it. I can stick to using guthan when I need the defence bonus I suppose. Just sold my bandos and I prefer having an extra 26M laying around.

[bedman]

lifemage, read compfreaks reply. Try to compare apples with apples...

[Indestria]

Both 3rd age and bandos armor don't degrade, and both have stats more than dragon. Dragon is practically a status symbol, so 3rd age and bandos both seem like status symbols for the cash you need, but are best in the non-degradeable catagory of equipment(I want 3rd age range for mage def, yet still worse than full karil's, but coif+vambs are worth it). Barrows, however, degrades, so it has a use, but sometimes it's fustrating when it fully degrades(aviansie tanking, sara GWD, dk's). However, if you think about it, barrows, after a long while(150k for the top+legs repair), can get pretty expensive....it's much like memberships. 3rd age and bandos both are 1-off payments, but expensive. Bandos is a small payment every 15 hours of combat, but after a while, it adds up.

 

 

 

Therefore, these 3 armors can be classed as following:

 

Barrows: Expensive in the long run, very good at all

 

3rd age: Stats which follow the trend of dragon, expensive at first

 

Bandos: Stats which follow the trend of granite, expensive at first

[Swordhand20]

Think of Barrows as your average family car, maybe a Citroen Xsara Picasso or Ford focus. Then think of 3rd age as one of those vintage 1930s cars, like the kind you have to crank up to start. The family car is cheaper, faster, and much more functional. The vintage car is very expensive and slow, but is a status symbol due to its value, rarity and completely different look.

[compfreak847]

Long read is an understatement. :lol: Anyway degrading of barrows equipment can really get you. I calculated the time it would take me to get 99 from lvl 80 (training at barrows actually). It would cost me 5m. With that 5m I could go out and by dragon with the money I already had. (Which i did go out and buy dragon.) I use barrows in the fights when I can really use the defence or set effects, mainly pvp, but I just do see the use in using barrows all the time and pouring loads of cash into it, or buying an expensive armour and saving money.

 

 

 

the stats the armour I wear around is:

 

Stab: +260

 

Slash: +275

 

Crush: +271

 

Magic: -2

 

Ranged: +243

 

Summoning: +151

 

Strength:+16

 

Prayer: +0

 

 

 

that's only a dragon medium helmet, a dragon chainbody, dragon platelegs, dragon boots, and a dragon square shield, and the barrows colored recipe for disaster gloves.

 

 

 

The stats of full torag is:

 

 

 

Stab: +262

 

Slash: +260

 

Crush: +244

 

Magic: -11

 

Ranged: +286

 

Summoning: +105

 

 

 

So in total with dragon I am loseing

 

Stab: -2

 

Slash: +15

 

Crush: +27

 

Magic: +9

 

Range: -43

 

Summoning: +46

 

 

 

The numbers for the torag were taken from the knowledge base due to me having sold my torag long ago. So in total i'm sacrificing about 91 points and saving millions. I think I can get over that. Also Torags has the best defence out of all the barrows sets.

 

 

 

For barrows being more rare, as the players grow up they by more expensive armour and there weapons and skills usually make up for there lack of defence. If jagex took barrows out of the game now, barrows sets would still circle around like they do today because there are so many sets out there.

 

Try mixing and matching. Your calculating torag stats as just the helm plate and legs, but using the dragon shield, dragon boots, and barrows gloves. Add the dragon square, boots, and barrows gloves to your torags, and for a much lower cost, you will have significantly increased defence (Or forgoe the dragon shield for a rune defender and get better attack stats, better defence stats, AND lower cost).

 

I was thinking about updating my post. I'll post the stats below but since most people who use torags use the hammers I wont caculate defence of a dragon square with it.

 

 

 

So lets try this again, the stats of torag:

 

 

 

Stab: +300

 

Slash: +301

 

Crush: +274

 

Magic: -5

 

Ranged: +298

 

Summoning: +126

 

 

 

And then I wear around the stats:

 

 

 

Stab: +260

 

Slash: +275

 

Crush: +271

 

Magic: -2

 

Ranged: +243

 

Summoning: +151

 

Strength:+16

 

Prayer: +0

 

 

 

So:

 

Stab: - 40

 

Slash: -26

 

Crush: -3

 

Magic: +3

 

Ranged: -55

 

Summonong: +25

 

 

 

Few things, it still doesn't beat my dragon by much, i'm still saving loads, and I have a little better magic defence which can determine if you live or die in a pvp minigame. I know i've won a match in clan wars from that before. I'll stick to my dragon, thank you and goodnight.

 

Umm... Are you kidding me? Ok, your only allowed to use your dragon with a dragon 2 hander. Let's see, I've seen... 5 people over level 100 using FULL torags? And several hundred (or thousand), who, like me, are getting a far better defence bonus then dragon. Let's stack it up, defencewise (Attack stats are the same.) We'll use Neitiznot helm, in this case the strength bonus is probably worth it. If we used torags helm over D med, it would be an obvious disadvantage for dragon. Let's see, using dragon with, say, legends cape; you get a total of +279 slash, for approx. 10M total. Swap out the dragon chainbody and platelegs for torags, and that number jumps too +322, a 43 difference and easily noticeable. However, the cost goes from roughly 10M to roughly 3M (At the most). And I doubt you'll spend more then 7M repairing it, so you'll be able to enjoy all the defence bonuses for much less cost. And dragon is no longer a status symbol; I see many players following other players in dragon, asking if they can't afford good armor. Dragon is ok statwise, but barrows is significantly superior. Notice I was not mentioning the set effects for any of them.

[0rangebunny]

I agree that barrows is very good, but if prices were based on stats alone, a bronze medium helm would be more valuable than a blue party hat.

[compfreak847]

I agree that barrows is very good, but if prices were based on stats alone, a bronze medium helm would be more valuable than a blue party hat.

 

People just don't like to read, do they. Please don't just scroll down and see me listing the stats of the items; actually read what I have to say about them. Notice that I stated that the discussion is on if Jagex SHOULD have made barrows the rare, valuable armor, instead of 3rd age, not that it should be high priced just because of its stats.

[Aneron]

Those are some really good points.

 

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that barrows did cost much more when it was released, which was much longer ago than both 3rd age and bandos... but still, you're absolutely right. *stocks up on barrows in preparation for imminent price rise*

[compfreak847]

Those are some really good points.

 

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that barrows did cost much more when it was released, which was much longer ago than both 3rd age and bandos... but still, you're absolutely right. *stocks up on barrows in preparation for imminent price rise*

 

It never got as high as 3rd age; it was reasonably high but has been steadily declining. It appears to have *sort of* bottomed out. With the introduction of gravestones, the truly expensive items like warspear and Verac's Helm, the ones that have a low high alch value and the other armor pieces protect over, are no longer recovered so there is fewer of them then the other types. Still, I wouldn't invest in them; unless Jagex makes some much-needed tweaks to the barrows minigame, they are simply to easy to obtain and probably will rise little, if it all.

[Aresgodowar]

Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

 

 

Do you even slay? If you did you'd know that with a Bunyip most tasks require NO FOOD now. So with Bandos and a Bunyip, you have the advantage over players without it.

 

 

 

I respect your knowledge in other areas, such as the obviously Fight Caves, but in this case you're severely wrong.

 

a small part of me just died inside....from laughter...

[compfreak847]

Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

 

 

Do you even slay? If you did you'd know that with a Bunyip most tasks require NO FOOD now. So with Bandos and a Bunyip, you have the advantage over players without it.

 

 

 

I respect your knowledge in other areas, such as the obviously Fight Caves, but in this case you're severely wrong.

 

a small part of me just died inside....from laughter...

 

Laughing at who? Muggi's right, bunyip does not heal enough for many tasks and you still have to eat.

[n00bfiterpk6]

i read it all lol...

 

i agree its kinda stupid but meh.. wat u gonna do about it?

 

 

 

Tbh none of this is relevant to me as im 45 def... although if barrows had less def bonus i would k0 more... :)

[Yes_Its_Ross]

NEEEEEEERF IT!

 

Seriously though why not?

[compfreak847]

i read it all lol...

 

i agree its kinda stupid but meh.. wat u gonna do about it?

 

 

 

Tbh none of this is relevant to me as im 45 def... although if barrows had less def bonus i would k0 more... :)

 

What am I going to do about it? Nothing. I'd just like to get the opinions of others, and see if there is some effective argument against or for it.