Enugard Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Excuse me lak, You said nothing to me about this.... I don't see why you made that decision by yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 After speaking with many concerned clan leaders and members of clans participating in the tournament, I feel the best course of action is A rematch, when hosted this rematch will be watched and observed by me on the time both clans agree on. I would suggest a rematch at Saturday at 3 PM eastern, makes it easy for the dutch based clan the Americans can sleep in. 6 days should be plenty of time to advertise between clan members to get them aware and ready a 7 man victory, is convincing, Surely the winner would feel confident that it could happen again. The declaration of instinct as a victor over Faith has been placed on hold pending administrative contact with both clans leaders. "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."Abraham Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSireph Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 As you can see some of us said already in the war 'Autowin'. We, after the Instinct member went out of the boundaries, assumed that it was clear enough for everyone that Instinct broke the rules and therefore would lose the war. We could have exited the portal to emphasise that, but that would be impolite and not respectfull. We didn't actually take the war serious anymore, 'Rules are rules, we have won!'. I have a direct problem with this statement. "We didn't actually take the war serious anymore,..." at 16-17 people remaining? You continued to tank like you were taking the war seriously. You continued to pile like you were taking the war seriously. Your snipers still roamed the field hitting people without melee protect on for the attrition of food, like you were taking the war seriously. Personally myself this happened in a war with boundaries, and I remember in teamspeak someone yelled "We won by default" to which another member retorted " a pixel hugger should not define our victory, lets earn it" ^^ It's also easy to return just as fast as you clicked out... Right. If you're lagging, its really easy to just click right back in. no doubt eating all the ehalth back he would need... Speculation. No one can assume this, nor does anyone have any proof of this. Autowin is a common phenomenon in the 'clan world', it's used when the other clan breaks a rule. For the record, I, nor my warlord, nor many of our members, have never heard of such a phenomenon. As Lakster points out, a rematch would have to be made fair. By some stroke of luck we managed to pull 19 people, and Faith only managed 20. I have little hope that we could [*:6cftcn3j]1- Pull 19+ people for a rematch... [*:6cftcn3j]2- Have the same circumstances which the same 20 people from Faith attend a rematch. While we could limit the numbers of the rematch, there is no way to moderate that Faith would pull the same people. I noted that in our war, their highest level was 116 (corroborated by my Warlord). They have many 116+ on their memberlist, that would no doubt attend a rematch. I don't believe that we could adequately make a rematch "fair" for both clans. I think that it would be best to just go with the ruling that the TCE officials came to, maybe face off in the future, but the circumstances would never be the same as they were at our first war. It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and the darkness, nothing more.The true master of Death does not seek to run away from Death. He accepts that he must die,and understands there are far, far worse things in the living world than dying.To the well organized mind death is but the next great adventure.And now, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The rematch would have the same cap. 20 for them/19 for instinct. In the event that Instinct cannot pull 19, and say only 15. It would be 15 vs 16. "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."Abraham Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbypenguin Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Technically they got an advantage. Dark or whoever ran out of the boundaries and came in (you have no proof that he ate when he was out by the way) then sometime during the war (i dont know the time during) lak lagged out and when he logged in he was in jail, giving Faith one less person to pile. In that way we were basically penalized during the war. I as well with Enugard do not want to rematch faith again. We need a break from wars and time to prepare for our fight with UBH. We did NOT discuss this answer at all (we as in the leaders/warlords of Instinct) as well. And to whoever said "It's also easy to return just as fast as you clicked out... " i will personally buy you a ticket from wherever you are to a computer that lags so much you wont believe it (AKA laks computer) and have you try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enugard Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I have a problem with the re-match with faith... Strabo previously said that the fact that Faith was late for the war could be "overlooked"... But i seriously had a problem with that because i had to occupy 22 members for 30+ minutes while we waited for Faith to gain their opts... Faith warlord did ask Strabo if it was in 2 hours and not 1, Strabo did say yes... and I told him otherwise where he corrected his mistake by posting on Faith forums within 6 minutes of the mistake. During the wait Instinct lost 3 members, 2 of our 120s.. and Anubis 451 (a leader and our best tank) I would also like to make a note that Faith had advanced because of another time mix up with AG. I do not want to bridge the gap of 7 time zones again... That is my only complaint about warring Faith again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Regardless, the war decision has been placed on hold until I can contact a representative from both clans to speak to me in an officious manner. So both clans should elect and select a person to speak to me about this. "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."Abraham Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSireph Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Instinct elects Strabo9. It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and the darkness, nothing more.The true master of Death does not seek to run away from Death. He accepts that he must die,and understands there are far, far worse things in the living world than dying.To the well organized mind death is but the next great adventure.And now, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbypenguin Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Instinct elects Strabo9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Instinct elects Strabo9. Judging by your member list, you are a normal member. Anubis_451 would be the other one I would like speak with. regarding strabo or lak being this official. "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."Abraham Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbypenguin Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I was emphasizing that Instinct elected strabo9. And im any thing BUT a normal member :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts_Stormrage Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Some people have their facts mixed up... Here is them all in a row: Faith start: 20 Instinct start: 19 Person who lagged out: Lakster37 Person going out of bounds: Dark Vtesh2 It couldnt have been Lakster37 that went out of bounds because as said, he found himself later in the jail (he did afterall, log out)... The person that went out of bounds can be seen returning after about 10 sped-up seconds, and later he is attacked again and seen with an almost full green bar... Any which way you looked at it, this particular Instinct person broke the rules previously determined between BOTH your clans... The decision made by Peterpan to give the victory to Instinct was a hasty one at best, and is overruled by Das, who offers to do a rematch... The whole tournament can be extended for all I know, as long as the match is done properly... If I was an Instinct member I would praise myself lucky to get another chance, because if the rules were actualy enforced, Instinct would have been disqualified, even if you won 19-0... The conditions of the rematch are the same as the old match (WITH BOUNDS!), with the inclusion of the rule that Faith has only 1 person more on the battlefield as Instinct, sicne the war was 20 F vs 19 I... Das has "randomly" chosen a time and date suitable to both clans, and since the averages are very close together on your Runehead memberlists this is about as fair as it can be made, and about as much as Instinct can hope for and about as little as Faith deserves... Das himself will attent the ar and watch it like a hawk... =- I think this about sums it all up, if I missed anything, please feel free to correct me... PS; forgive Peterpan, he is pretty new on the job... Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it ClanMember of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent GuardiansFounder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institutionTip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?Check us out!==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==CLICK IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSireph Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Well, we likely won't be hearing from Faith for at least a couple of hours, they're likely sleeping, it's like 5am there. I will try to wake up early enough so that a conversation may be conducted between myself, Das, and the official elected by Faith... but I can't make any promises that I'll be available tomorrow, which would likely be the best time to talk this out. If I can not be reached tomorrow, private messaging me on the Tip.It forums with a conference time/date will suffice. That is, if I cannot discuss anything tomorrow, I will be checking my forum inbox. I would ask that this signifies the end of the Instinct vs Faith conversation until this problem is resolved between Instinct, Tip.It, and Faith. We're taking over the topic, not sure if you've noticed, we're not the only one's in the tournament. It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and the darkness, nothing more.The true master of Death does not seek to run away from Death. He accepts that he must die,and understands there are far, far worse things in the living world than dying.To the well organized mind death is but the next great adventure.And now, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Sounds good. "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."Abraham Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pan_Nx Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 The decision made by Peterpan to give the victory to Instinct was a hasty one at best, and is overruled by Das, who offers to do a rematch... The whole tournament can be extended for all I know, as long as the match is done properly... It wasn't exactly overruled. Instinct doesn't have to accept the war, it would just be a nice gesture for them to do. But we are willing to extend the tournament if instinct decides to give faith another shot. Any clan not warring the winner of the possible faith/instinct war would not have extended deadlines for the round 4 war. Hopefully they could fit something in like two wars next weekend so it wouldn't have any effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipwnage4lyfe Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Some people have their facts mixed up... The decision made by Peterpan to give the victory to Instinct was a hasty one at best, PS; forgive Peterpan, he is pretty new on the job... I think that you should stop taking cheap shots at Peterpan...... I don't really believe that Instinct should be required to rematch Faith as previously stated Instinct had a DC so Faith got an extra person there without any effort. What Dark did was uncalled for but for Faith to stop trying because of one rule break is really disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtje1 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 mkay, I used to thought that going out of bounds was considered cheating, which is, obviously, a Auto-win for the other clan. And about Lakster, who lagged out, I believe we did piled him, and he lagged out during our pile, resulting in us searching for him all over the battlefield. It could have been someone else, but we did piled someone who was suddenly gone. We're sorry for the fact we came to late, but if this tournament wasn't during the holidays, we would have pulled in the 30. I don't think you can find a clan who thinks it's fair to go out of bounds. ~Rbtje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbypenguin Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Im pretty sure that no one in Instinct thinks that going out of bounds is fair. It just doesnt give you an auto win. If you guys keep screaming auto win i really dont see why we cant scream it as well for you guys being 45 min. late. Faith warlord did ask Strabo if it was in 2 hours and not 1, Strabo did say yes... and I told him otherwise where he corrected his mistake by posting on Faith forums within 6 minutes of the mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enugard Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Talk of Faith vs Instinct should really be cleared from this topic now... It is being taken care of... there's no reason for anymore posts about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbypenguin Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Your the reason im always bored Enugard! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakster Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Just saying, that was as much our fault as it was theirs. Strabo told them 1:00 PM EST while technically because of Daylight Savings time it should have been 1:00 PM EDT. 1:00 EST IS one hour later than 1:00 EDT. I guess that's just the kind of crap you have to deal with from multiple timezones though. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiesje Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Faith does not want a rematch and thus will not participate any further in this tournament. Why would Faith war a rematch under the conditions of '20 Vs. 19' and/or a combat level 116 cap? We were not the clan that was wrong, Instinct was. I can't see how we should have to addept us to those rules. I have a direct problem with this statement. "We didn't actually take the war serious anymore,..." at 16-17 people remaining? You continued to tank like you were taking the war seriously. You continued to pile like you were taking the war seriously. Your snipers still roamed the field hitting people without melee protect on for the attrition of food, like you were taking the war seriously. How can you judge over our way of warring when you have never seen us warring before? Of course we wanted to make it at least the time worth for our members to show off how experienced (or not) they are. See it as a soccer game where you're 5 points in favour of the other team in the last minute. For the record, I, nor my warlord, nor many of our members, have never heard of such a phenomenon. I really can't imagine that. Technically they got an advantage. Dark or whoever ran out of the boundaries and came in (you have no proof that he ate when he was out by the way) then sometime during the war (i dont know the time during) lak lagged out and when he logged in he was in jail, giving Faith one less person to pile. In that way we were basically penalized during the war. This is ridiculous, how can you compensate a person breaking a rule by a person who lags out? Lagging out is a part of the game, you can't do anything against it, it's not our fault. And, this is pretty much pointless to say, but how can you lag at least 10 squares away and return running a circle, joining the pile again? He should have or exited the portal, or logged out to don't make this rule count anymore. But he came back and fought out the war. But i seriously had a problem with that because i had to occupy 22 members for 30+ minutes while we waited for Faith to gain their opts... Faith warlord did ask Strabo if it was in 2 hours and not 1, Strabo did say yes... and I told him otherwise where he corrected his mistake by posting on Faith forums within 6 minutes of the mistake. I think that warring BEFORE the 'arranged' time is much more difficult for a clan to get their members to the war. Less then one hour before the war posting a correction can't I really call correcting. At least contact a staff member directly through MSN/IRC, that would have had much more effect, we could have come at the right time to war then (and yes, with less people). It wasn't exactly overruled. Instinct doesn't have to accept the war, it would just be a nice gesture for them to do. But we are willing to extend the tournament if instinct decides to give faith another shot. You haven't read what I said at all? You're now making Faith look like the one who was wrong, but Instinct was the clan who broke a rule. You can't predict the outcome of a war after any rule breaking. What would have happened if he did not go out of the boundaries? We will never know. And yes, we did pile Lakster, you can see it in Swordude's vid. Kirby, I'm not screaming, I'm just telling what happened, I think this really is unfair. As I noted in my last post, Faith will see what we will do after this happening. You will hear from us. Good luck in the next round Instinct. Animum debes mutare, non caelum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSireph Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Okay. I can live with that. Neither Faith, nor Instinct particularly wants to rematch, so we'll just go with the ruling the TCE officials gave first, and we'll prepare for our war with UBH. Thank you for the good fight Faith, even if you say you gave up 1/4 of the way through. It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and the darkness, nothing more.The true master of Death does not seek to run away from Death. He accepts that he must die,and understands there are far, far worse things in the living world than dying.To the well organized mind death is but the next great adventure.And now, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enugard Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 For the record, I, nor my warlord, nor many of our members, have never heard of such a phenomenon. I really can't imagine that. Instinct is a mainly RSCommunity based clan... There are no "auto wins" on a minor boundary offence... there are leaders told... and members punished which we believe you should have came to us about it... told us... and we would have punished the member accordingly. Best of luck to Faith in further wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiesje Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Thank you for the good fight Faith, even if you say you gave up 1/4 of the way through. We did not give up, we thought the clan moderators would be experienced enough to recognise this situation. Let's hope that out next meeting will be more pleasant for both of the clans. :) Animum debes mutare, non caelum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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