Full Out War Tournament - Final Match Is 8/9

[Lakster]

Dang, it... I was looking over that picture again and I realized that couldn't have been me, I wore a Rune Berserker shield, not a regular kite... I have no idea who that it, and there isn't really any way to tell. Regardless, I'm sorry on behalf of Instinct that someone went that far out of bounds, but I really don't think it should effect the decision of who won it to that degree.

[Hellfire010]

According to your picture, the member of Instinct who stepped out was wearing Boots of Lightness and an Amulet of Glory.

 

 

I looked through the video I took myself (of the entire war) and only one Instinct member was wearing Boots of Lightness. He was also wearing an Amulet of Glory. So, to clear this all up... it was Dark Vthesh2.

 

 

 

Though, it could have been a simple mistake, as I'm sure it was. Either way, 1 person would hardly have that much effect - and we won with 7 people left. Such a simple thing surely cannot create an auto win when we clearly won...

[Ts_Stormrage]

Hmm, although I have absolutely no business posting in this thread as my clan doesn't participate, I feel that the discussion is an interestion one...

 

 

 

After watching the video there is no doubt that someone went out of bounds... And while this may or may not have an impact on the eventual outcome on the war, it is still breaking the pre-set rules of the war, and breaking the rules should be punished... Unfortunately, the only possible way of punishment is having the other side win...

 

 

 

Some arguments that have passed the revue are quite interesting...

 

This person could have lagged, but then again so could someone from Faith have... And if the roles were reversed you'd be furious if they won anyways... Turns out that this person did not lag out at all and had full control over all movement the entire time...

 

It could also not have impacted the outcome of the war, but I'm not so sure about that either... This person did not randomly run out of bounds, there were atleast 7 white dots (that are visible) chasing him, making him the definite target of Faith's pile... It also took him a full 10 seconds in that SPED UP video to return... More then that, it took the white dots only 3 (execpt for 1 dot who was apparently still chasing him)...

 

 

 

 

 

All in all, it's a tough call to make against a clan who would have won "if only"... But if we lived in a world of if-only's then it'd be a better place for all of us...

 

Congratulations Faith, you deserve to win on the grounds of abiding the rules...

 

And secundairy congratulations to Instinct, who would have won "if only"...

[rbtje1]

 

 

 

As you can see, it was 16-17, we almost k0'd this guy before he went out of bounds. If we k0'd him the score was 16 - 16, and we could have continued our piles. But we couldn't k0 him because he went out of bounds, resulting in us piling him later in the match again and him probably tanking us.

 

As lots of warrers know, losing a pile in the first phase of the match can be vital in later stages.

 

I'm not English so my English is bad.

 

 

 

~Rbtje1

[Rastekkel]

We will war Wof today ;)

[thiesje]

In Dbzruler72's vid, you can see at 5:30 and 5:57 Dark Vthesh2 still participating, that is after he went out of the boundaries. So he still had influence on the war after he did that.

 

 

 

As you can see in Swordude04's vid, Dark Vthesh2 made some of our people go out of the boundaries so we had to make a new pile. It took some time to reorganise and get my people behind me again. And, like Rbtje1 said, it can be vital in later stages if you're losing a pile in the begin of the war.

[Sanctus_Petrus]

2mighty wins.

 

 

 

Starting ops:

 

 

 

42 2M

 

 

 

21 Wof

 

 

 

That kinda says it all.

 

 

 

Good luck everyone left in tourney.

[Enugard]

I have a question for faith...

 

 

 

Why did you make this rule breaking "Auto win" known near the end of the war instead of right after the rule had been broken?

 

 

 

During the fight I did not see "we win" until you began losing...

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

Congratulations to 2mighty =o

[thiesje]

Autowin is a common phenomenon in the 'clan world', it's used when the other clan breaks a rule. In Swordude's video, you can see at least 2 people say auto-win. We communicate in a war purely through TeamSpeak, if I had recorded it, you could have heard us telling our members that it would be an autowin.

[Pan_Nx]

We've looked at it and felt the rule break was too minor for getting the losing penalty. We do see that Instinct broke a rule but again, we felt it was too minor. It is easy for a member to hit out by mistake. If instinct would have won the war by a smaller margin we may have looked at the situation differently.

[Elizzzzzzzzz]

UBH vs RBH - Round 3.

 

 

 

War -> viewtopic.php?f=189&t=752074&p=5926843#p5926843

 

 

 

 

 

Goodluck Instinct... Hope i can make it :)

[Ts_Stormrage]

We've looked at it and felt the rule break was too minor for getting the losing penalty. We do see that Instinct broke a rule but again, we felt it was too minor. It is easy for a member to hit out by mistake. If instinct would have won the war by a smaller margin we may have looked at the situation differently.

 

 

 

oeh wow, another shocker...

 

 

 

It's also easy to return just as fast as you clicked out... This person took the long way around (just look at the video), something that is clear to nearly everyone as trying to escape the battle...

 

This is where it shows how little experience some people have in clan issues such as wars... ANYONE who sees the video can clearly see that regardless of knowing the rule or not, this person violated it, and by doing so has greatly impacted the outcome of the war... Ignorance is not an excuse...

 

 

 

Once again the staff basicly admits that there has indeed been a transgression of previously established rules, but fails to show any backbone in the execution of punishment... Somehow people here still put up with the attitude of "yeah, they broke the rules, but we're not going to do anything about it" of those that are supposed to rule and manage the happenings in this clan section...

 

 

 

I wouldnt be surprised if there's a PM in Das' letterbox by tomorrow pointing out how the ruling body here screwed up again....

[thiesje]

I strongly disagree on the clan moderators decision. As you can see some of us said already in the war 'Autowin'. We, after the Instinct member went out of the boundaries, assumed that it was clear enough for everyone that Instinct broke the rules and therefore would lose the war. We could have exited the portal to emphasise that, but that would be impolite and not respectfull. We didn't actually take the war serious anymore, 'Rules are rules, we have won!'. What are we making up the rules for anyway? What if we had a picture of the second Instinct member going out of the boundaries? At least we could have arrange a rematch, that would be better for both of us since we both had problems with the time of the war.

 

 

 

I want to wish Instinct all the best in the next round, I hope we can war again sometime.

 

 

 

I will now refrain from posting in Tip.It's clan section for some time, I will discuss with my staff what decisions Faith will make because of this lack of strictness.

[Avni]

UBH defeats rbh. :thumbsup:

[Pan_Nx]

I'm not going to reply to your petty flames storm, but I will reply to your concerns.

 

 

 

Once again the staff basicly admits that there has indeed been a transgression of previously established rules, but fails to show any backbone in the execution of punishment... Somehow people here still put up with the attitude of "yeah, they broke the rules, but we're not going to do anything about it" of those that are supposed to rule and manage the happenings in this clan section...

 

 

You are probably referring to the DL incident in the TWR. I have explained this one too many times to you stormrage. They were given a warning for their actions, and they apologized for doing it. We will not kick clans from any event at tipit forums for making just one bad judgment on their part.

 

 

 

I wouldnt be surprised if there's a PM in Das' letterbox by tomorrow pointing out how the ruling body here screwed up again....

 

Das is apart of that so called screwed up ruling body. ;)

 

 

I strongly disagree on the clan moderators decision. As you can see some of us said already in the war 'Autowin'. We, after the Instinct member went out of the boundaries, assumed that it was clear enough for everyone that Instinct broke the rules and therefore would lose the war. We could have exited the portal to emphasise that, but that would be impolite and not respectfull. We didn't actually take the war serious anymore, 'Rules are rules, we have won!'. What are we making up the rules for anyway? What if we had a picture of the second Instinct member going out of the boundaries? At least we could have arrange a rematch, that would be better for both of us since we both had problems with the time of the war.

 

 

I understand your frustration but Faith should have continued the war as normal because the ending margin largely affects decisions like this.

[das]

The debate was long and heated and at times and not an easy choice to make, however in the heat of battle people do stupid things, lag and melt, I have strangely seen it first hand. Personally myself this happened in a war with boundaries, and I remember in teamspeak someone yelled "We won by default" to which another member retorted " a pixel hugger should not define our victory, lets earn it"

 

 

 

Ive watched the video more than one time

 

If possible, I would love to personally speak to a leader from both clans, a rematch is not out of the question for the integrity of the tournament.

 

 

 

Send me a pm and I will give you my messenger details and we will discuss this. I want this tournament to go over very well.

[swordude04]

Thank you TCE. Instinct apologizes for the incident and will try our hardest to make sure it will not happen again in this tournament or in any future wars. I understand how Faith could be frustrated, but look at it from our point of view, we could have lost a war we won by 7 (which the running out of bounds would have cause it to be 6 or maybe 5 or 4, but I do not think it could have caused over 3 kills seeing as dark is only level 100 and one of the lowest levels participating in the war) because of one persons mistake which may have been on accident.

 

 

 

If you compare this to someone stealy a piece of candy, it's not a large crime so they wouldn't be punished as much as if they had stolen a $1000 TV. It's the same with wars (in my opinion) someone running out of bounds just doesn't seem as a big of a deal as say bringing 5 people from your allies clan or using mage in a non-mage war. This is all in my opinion, but I do believe it to be fair.

 

 

 

And to UBH, see you in the next round.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Das; its just as hard for one clan as it is for the other to stay within bounds, and if it was an accident, then I can still understand... But this person took the long way around to get back, no doubt eating all the ehalth back he would need... And as you said, Faith should've continued the fight, but if they did, they would still be piling a person miles out of bounds, aka become rulebreakers themselves...

 

 

 

If anything, a rematch shouldve been offered before a ruling on who won was made... Instinct can now simply refuse the rematch and go through to the next round... Someone who made the final decision that Instinct got the win anyways seriously dropped the ball here...

 

 

 

But lastly, one thing stands as strong as a house:

 

Why have rules if they can be broken with no repercussions whatsoever...

[lord_troyus]

As a neutral i find it difficult to see why the tipit CD staff made that decision.

 

Admittedly it's just one person - but that could have been one KO. That one person could have made the transition from pile to pile easier than having to pull others off from chasing bounds.

 

 

 

It seems stupid in a tournament to have solid definable rules then to go against them. Admittedly it could seem unfair on instinct - yeah lagg hurts. But there man ate up, and ran back into the war. At the time when he did run out, the scores were fairly level.

 

Hate to dispute the CD staff but why in all honesty would a team who followed the rules fairly return to a tournament where they were put second to a team who broke the rules.

[ipwnage4lyfe]

Maybe Instinct should talk to this Dark fellow and ask him what happened. Did he lag, was he unaware of the rules, misclick, or did he know what he was doing. If he lagged then whatever Faith should have kept on fighting end of story. If he was unaware of the rules that's Instinct's fault because it is there responsibility to inform their members. If he misclicked which i doubt since everybody says he took the long way back. Still no matter what this guy did their is no excuse whatsoever for Faith to stop trying in a war. A tournament no less! You should take pride in your clan and warring abilities not depend on one rule break to win you the fight.

[das]

I think from my understanding the lagging showed in sworddudes video did indeed show it could of been lag playing a major factor.

 

 

 

I think it would be a grand gesture for both clans to accept a rematch, so since this is a rather popular topic.

 

 

 

What do both of you say about a rematch? I will come myself to officiate it and watch it like a hawk.

[swordude04]

Honestly, 19 people was the most we pulled for a war in our clan history, we reminded people about the war every day because we knew Faith wasn't going to be an easy win. We had the war advertised in our clan chat and did everything possible and we were lucky to pull 19 (we actually had 22 but there was a delay in time which I'm not too sure what happened but the war ended up being 45 minutes late)

 

 

 

I am not a Leader nor a warlord (I'm an elder, it's the rank under leader) so I can't decide whether or not to accept or decline a re-match, but our clan does have multiple time-zones so Saturdays and Sundays are usually the only days we can get a decent turnout and with round 4 ending July 28th I don't know if we could cram 2 wars in.

[das]

Dates can be extended.

[Lakster]

If you don't mind extending the dates so we can have the rematch this weekend, then on behalf of Instinct (I'm one of the leaders), we'll have a rematch. Since we all seem to be talking about fairness, I don't think we should completely throw out that war. Wouldn't it seem more "fair" if we were limited to a max of what we brought to the previous war? 20 for Faith and 19 for Instinct?

[Kirbypenguin]

Lak that was a wonderful discussion. :evil: