Dynamic Signature Discussion

[evil_mumm_ra]

 

 

 

i feel used, but in a good way! i'd love to see the uploadable poses too, just in case i manage to find some combination of outfits or something that is even weirder.

[MageUK]

Custom poses are possible however it will delay the release time.

 

 

 

User Upload

 

Must be checked for file size.

 

Must be checked for correct MIME types.

 

Must be checked for image dimensions (If they're incorrect do we resize? Again, adding more processing).

 

To make this easier later we also need them all in the same format, again, do we only accept PNG or do we convert other formats?

 

 

 

Processing

 

After we've decided the image that we have is actually usable what do we do with it?

 

We can't simply store it in a folder as it might be named the same as another image, so we're going to have to create a random name for these.

 

Once a random name is created what do we do with it? How do we relate the user to that image? We can't simply store the username in a database along with the pose name because that will become a problem if they try and create multiple sigs. The only way we can do this is to add it into the resulting URL. That also causes the problem of people being able to use other peoples' poses in their sigs as they can simply copy the URLs and change the RuneScape name. Unless we create some kind of database where a pose can only be used with one RuneScape name.

 

 

 

Moderating

 

Now, once the image is stored and we decide to do whatever we need with it in the processing section we have to moderate the image. There will always be a minority who spoil it for the majority if we allow the images to go by and be uploaded un-moderated, so there needs to be some kind of queue until the image has been checked that it's suitable. The only real way we can distinguish between what has been checked and what hasn't (unless we manually move the image files between two "checked" and "unchecked" folders after they're been OKed), is to bring a database into play to mark which images are okay to use and which aren't.

 

 

 

As I said, if you guys really want custom poses it's going to significantly delay the release of the signatures, but it's up to you.

[Mercifull]

K I will go through some of your concerns with my ideas...

 

 

 

User Upload

 

Must be checked for file size. AFAIK this isnt difficult, even very simple image uploaders have the capabilaties of having max filesizes.

 

Must be checked for correct MIME types. PNG should be the only acceptable image type

 

Must be checked for image dimensions (If they're incorrect do we resize? Again, adding more processing). Simply put the max dimensions at 100w by 110h, Do not resize, start the image in the bottom right corner.

 

To make this easier later we also need them all in the same format, again, do we only accept PNG or do we convert other formats? Yes, see above.

 

 

 

Processing

 

After we've decided the image that we have is actually usable what do we do with it?

 

We can't simply store it in a folder as it might be named the same as another image, so we're going to have to create a random name for these.

 

Once a random name is created what do we do with it? How do we relate the user to that image? We can't simply store the username in a database along with the pose name because that will become a problem if they try and create multiple sigs. The only way we can do this is to add it into the resulting URL. That also causes the problem of people being able to use other peoples' poses in their sigs as they can simply copy the URLs and change the RuneScape name. Unless we create some kind of database where a pose can only be used with one RuneScape name. Each person is only allowed one pose and it is uploaded and filed as Mercifull_pose.png for example. Alternatively like you suggest putting it in the URL would be fine. Of course you may get the odd person "stealing" someone elses pose but when you can upload your own I do not see why this would happen.

 

 

 

Moderating

 

Now, once the image is stored and we decide to do whatever we need with it in the processing section we have to moderate the image. There will always be a minority who spoil it for the majority if we allow the images to go by and be uploaded un-moderated, so there needs to be some kind of queue until the image has been checked that it's suitable. The only real way we can distinguish between what has been checked and what hasn't (unless we manually move the image files between two "checked" and "unchecked" folders after they're been OKed), is to bring a database into play to mark which images are okay to use and which aren't. Are signatures moderated before showing now?... Didnt think so. If someone breaks the rules then they get warned/banned simple as that. I do not feel that there is a need for a complex moderation system. If you make it so that you can only have customisable poses when logged into the forum/website for example then you can ban or revoke rights to individuals.

[Mercifull]

Basicly what I am suggestion to put it a bit more simply is that tipit have another addition to the forum in a similar fasion to the avatar system where you can upload a "custom pose". This pose is not shown on the profile page (to regular users at least, I know you can make things only visible to mods and admins in the templates) but does show in the user control panel.

 

 

 

When you go to create your signature you chose your username, you choose your colours and you choose your pose from the preset list or the one called "custom pose" (which only shows up when logged in).

 

 

 

Your signature is then located at tip.it/signatures/blue/pose/99/Mercifull.png

 

or tip.it/signatures/blue/custom/104/Mercifull.png

 

 

 

Which (and im speculating here because I don't know how its been coded) would refer to the address (pre mod_rewrite) to tip.it/signatures.php?colour=blue&pose=99&username=Mercifull and tip.it/signatures.php?colour=blue&custom=104&username=Mercifull

 

 

 

99 would be the pose reference for the presets and 104 is my unique forum id used when pulling the custom pose. Both sigs would use the blue background.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes with this system I could abuse it by making this my signature tip.it/signatures/yellow/custom/160597/Mercifull.png which would take Pure_mageUKs custom pose (if he had one) but this isnt strictly a problem because a person might really like his custom pose and with permission would be able to use it and thus save space on tipit servers. If person X does it without permission and refuses to remove it then a moderator can give them a warning in the same fasion as is done currently with oversized and inappropriate images

[n_odie]

I think that if custom poses where allowed you would have to make it so the picture is now Tif's. If custom poses are incorporated they will be used by other sites which we do not moderate. So if someone come into Tif and finds a nice custom pose and swipes it, there's nothing we could really do. These discussions are hard for me to contribute and I'm sure you programmers get a laugh everytime I suggest something. I think we should release the ones as are now with a note that says, Future updates coming! This starts getting the fact that we have signatures out without forum users breathing down programmers necks. A cool thing to see would be to have the loggin option (wink wink) integrated with your custom poses where you have a "My Signature" section where you can upload pics and change your picture accordingly.

[Kaphias]

I think that if custom poses where allowed you would have to make it so the picture is now Tif's. If custom poses are incorporated they will be used by other sites which we do not moderate. So if someone come into Tif and finds a nice custom pose and swipes it, there's nothing we could really do. These discussions are hard for me to contribute and I'm sure you programmers get a laugh everytime I suggest something. I think we should release the ones as are now with a note that says, Future updates coming! This starts getting the fact that we have signatures out without forum users breathing down programmers necks. A cool thing to see would be to have the loggin option (wink wink) integrated with your custom poses where you have a "My Signature" section where you can upload pics and change your picture accordingly.

 

Now there's an idea... The signatures could be made so that all users (registered or not) can use them, but registered users have the capability to upload their own poses. This also makes a punishment easier for those who abuse the system.

[D. V. Devnull]

A catch-up from page 1...

 

I still think it's a shame that there's no TIF logo on those sigs :( .

 

 

 

I think we could place a small one in the bottom right corner just to show that Tipit created that sig and so we get the credit etc.

 

 

 

That was talked about but decided against as resizing the logo to an appropriate size to fit just made it unreadable.

 

It would not really be unreadable. Look at the "Tip.It Favorites Icon", viewed via the main Tip.It Website Page ... Notice, it is readable, especially when viewed at original size! :P

 

 

 

Somebody stick the favicon in the corner of those stat images. I've just cut this guy down, and Tip.It deserves to have their proper credit on their signature images! :ugeek:

 

 

 

~Mr. D. V. Devnull

 

(Also known as "Mr. Cut-you-down-for-wrongfully-debunking-an-idea" ...)

[Beaumonde]

Somebody stick the favicon in the corner of those stat images. I've just cut this guy down, and Tip.It deserves to have their proper credit on their signature images! :ugeek:

 

 

 

This was done and people preferred not to have it, get over it. And this whole custom image seams like allot of work for nothing much.

[Mercifull]

This was done and people preferred not to have it, get over it. And this whole custom image seams like allot of work for nothing much.

I dont see how you can say custom poses would be "nothing much". This feature would be totally new and never been done before on a Runescape site. Where was the vote that people decided they would prefer not to have it? I dont recall seeing it.

[Beaumonde]

This was done and people preferred not to have it, get over it. And this whole custom image seams like allot of work for nothing much.

I dont see how you can say custom poses would be "nothing much". This feature would be totally new and never been done before on a Runescape site. Where was the vote that people decided they would prefer not to have it? I dont recall seeing it.

 

 

 

The first part was discussing adding the Tip.it logo to the sigs. The second part was about the custom poses.

[MageUK]

K I will go through some of your concerns with my ideas...

 

 

 

User Upload

 

Must be checked for file size. AFAIK this isnt difficult, even very simple image uploaders have the capabilaties of having max filesizes.

 

Must be checked for correct MIME types. PNG should be the only acceptable image type

 

Must be checked for image dimensions (If they're incorrect do we resize? Again, adding more processing). Simply put the max dimensions at 100w by 110h, Do not resize, start the image in the bottom right corner.

 

To make this easier later we also need them all in the same format, again, do we only accept PNG or do we convert other formats? Yes, see above.

 

 

 

Processing

 

After we've decided the image that we have is actually usable what do we do with it?

 

We can't simply store it in a folder as it might be named the same as another image, so we're going to have to create a random name for these.

 

Once a random name is created what do we do with it? How do we relate the user to that image? We can't simply store the username in a database along with the pose name because that will become a problem if they try and create multiple sigs. The only way we can do this is to add it into the resulting URL. That also causes the problem of people being able to use other peoples' poses in their sigs as they can simply copy the URLs and change the RuneScape name. Unless we create some kind of database where a pose can only be used with one RuneScape name. Each person is only allowed one pose and it is uploaded and filed as Mercifull_pose.png for example. Alternatively like you suggest putting it in the URL would be fine. Of course you may get the odd person "stealing" someone elses pose but when you can upload your own I do not see why this would happen.

 

 

 

Moderating

 

Now, once the image is stored and we decide to do whatever we need with it in the processing section we have to moderate the image. There will always be a minority who spoil it for the majority if we allow the images to go by and be uploaded un-moderated, so there needs to be some kind of queue until the image has been checked that it's suitable. The only real way we can distinguish between what has been checked and what hasn't (unless we manually move the image files between two "checked" and "unchecked" folders after they're been OKed), is to bring a database into play to mark which images are okay to use and which aren't. Are signatures moderated before showing now?... Didnt think so. If someone breaks the rules then they get warned/banned simple as that. I do not feel that there is a need for a complex moderation system. If you make it so that you can only have customisable poses when logged into the forum/website for example then you can ban or revoke rights to individuals.

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood the point of my post.

 

 

 

I wasn't expressing my concerns or stating that I found it difficult to actually perform any of the tasks I mentioned, I was simply stating what needed to be done to implement this feature. Current poses are 122 x 108. All of the stuff in the "User Upload" section is very easy. Your renaming solution in the processing section doesn't really solve the problem I stated. You only allow one pose per RSN? Some people like to use different sigs on different sites, so they would be stuck with exactly the same pose, hence the random naming.

 

 

 

Are signatures moderated now? No. That's correct. But in this case we would actually be hosting the image so it can easily look like we might have the pose they upload in our own gallery when in fact it's just them abusing the system. I'll be talking more with the administrative team about that.

[Beaumonde]

Are signatures moderated now? No. That's correct. But in this case we would actually be hosting the image so it can easily look like we might have the pose they upload in our own gallery when in fact it's just them abusing the system. I'll be talking more with the administrative team about that.

 

 

 

If Tip.It goes into hosting custom posses it's Tip.It's responsibility to remove offensive, illegal and copyrighted images.

 

 

 

Overall it's more trouble then it's worth.

[Jimmyw3000]

I still think it's a shame that there's no TIF logo on those sigs :( .

 

 

 

I think we could place a small one in the bottom right corner just to show that Tipit created that sig and so we get the credit etc.

 

 

 

That was talked about but decided against as resizing the logo to an appropriate size to fit just made it unreadable.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, i must have missed that discussion :-# . I'll stop pressing that idea now.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, is it possible to add a little script to Signitures with Custom poese so that they are only able to be used on TIF? Or would that take too much space?

 

 

 

Also on the custom poses idea, some uses who upload custom poses mist not upload a transparent picture, making the signiture seen bad and tacky.

[MageUK]

EDIT: Also, is it possible to add a little script to Signitures with Custom poese so that they are only able to be used on TIF? Or would that take too much space?

 

 

 

Also on the custom poses idea, some uses who upload custom poses mist not upload a transparent picture, making the signiture seen bad and tacky.

 

 

 

Yeah the transparency could be a problem I guess.

 

 

 

The former, we won't be doing, that would massively decrease our user base for these.

[Mercifull]

If Tip.It goes into hosting custom posses it's Tip.It's responsibility to remove offensive, illegal and copyrighted images.

 

 

 

Overall it's more trouble then it's worth.

Shall we remove avatars now then too? Same logic... Avatars are 100*100px, custom poses would be 122*108px.

[Beaumonde]

EDIT: Also, is it possible to add a little script to Signitures with Custom poese so that they are only able to be used on TIF? Or would that take too much space?

 

 

 

Also on the custom poses idea, some uses who upload custom poses mist not upload a transparent picture, making the signiture seen bad and tacky.

 

 

 

Yeah the transparency could be a problem I guess.

 

 

 

The former, we won't be doing, that would massively decrease our user base for these.

 

 

 

You could make the generator auto transparent a certain color, like a standard windows paint shade of pink.

[MageUK]

EDIT: Also, is it possible to add a little script to Signitures with Custom poese so that they are only able to be used on TIF? Or would that take too much space?

 

 

 

Also on the custom poses idea, some uses who upload custom poses mist not upload a transparent picture, making the signiture seen bad and tacky.

 

 

 

Yeah the transparency could be a problem I guess.

 

 

 

The former, we won't be doing, that would massively decrease our user base for these.

 

 

 

You could make the generator auto transparent a certain color, like a standard windows paint shade of pink.

 

 

 

I suppose, it would be nice if everyone just submitted images with transparency though.

 

 

 

Are you for or against this idea of custom poses? I can't seem to work it out.

[Beaumonde]

I suppose, it would be nice if everyone just submitted images with transparency though.

 

 

 

Are you for or against this idea of custom poses? I can't seem to work it out.

 

 

 

I'm generally opposed but if it's going to be done anyway it might as well be done correctly.

[Mercifull]

Are you opposed because you think its a stupid idea or because your cant do it with RSHiLib and wouldn't be able to compete?

[Beaumonde]

-_- I'm opposed because it's to much hassle which is why no one else has done it. Draynor or L33tsigs or Rsband could have all done it ages ago but they didn't because it's a waste of time and I'm sure if Tip.It did it everyone else would copy anyways so we might be the first but once Draynor and friends copy the idea to compete people will just end up switching back.

[Jimmyw3000]

EDIT: Also, is it possible to add a little script to Signitures with Custom poese so that they are only able to be used on TIF? Or would that take too much space?

 

 

 

Also on the custom poses idea, some uses who upload custom poses mist not upload a transparent picture, making the signiture seen bad and tacky.

 

 

 

Yeah the transparency could be a problem I guess.

 

 

 

The former, we won't be doing, that would massively decrease our user base for these.

 

 

 

I dont understand. What do you mean by "massively decrease our user base for these"?

[Mercifull]

I think he means the custom sigs only being able to be used on Tipit and not on other sites like other ones do.

[Jimmyw3000]

I think he means the custom sigs only being able to be used on Tipit and not on other sites like other ones do.

 

 

 

 

 

I think i see :-k . But I'm saying that it'd be a lot easier to regulate if we only have custom sigs on TIF, but allowed the regular sigs anywhere. I'm not saying restrict all the signitures to TIF.

[n_odie]

I think we should release as is and then give updates later. :)

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with that!

[InkofDeath]

so we might be the first but once Draynor and friends copy the idea to compete people will just end up switching back.

 

Not necessarily. A lot of people do try and stick to the original thing, rather then just getting up and leaving and going to another thing which is a copy. I really don't think it's a waste of time, and it would certainly get some more people using the signatures. Whether or not others implement the same feature, Tip.It is able to say we did it first out of this little group of competitors, and technically, that's really what matters when competing, that and satisfaction from the users.

 

 

 

I just don't think how your thinking about it, is the correct way to think about it, it's not entirely a negative aspect to it.