"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Omar]

Muggi, we're all conditioned differently and we all inherit different genes. This is a little bit like arguing over the beauty of a painting with a colorblind person.

[Assume Nothing]

I've stayed out of the argument because I've seen no point in it.

 

I've got a question though - does polygamous relationships offer any social benefits over a monogamous relationship? If so, does it outweigh the potential drawbacks? Does it have to be imposed on those who aren't comfortable with the idea of polygamous relationships?

 

A problem I see with polygamy is the fact that there's a problem regarding family issues, and a lack of commitment could prove deleterious in the long term (especially if several partners get pregnant simultaneously, unexpectedly).

[Randox]

I've stayed out of the argument because I've seen no point in it.

 

I've got a question though - does polygamous relationships offer any social benefits over a monogamous relationship? If so, does it outweigh the potential drawbacks? Does it have to be imposed on those who aren't comfortable with the idea of polygamous relationships?

 

A problem I see with polygamy is the fact that there's a problem regarding family issues, and a lack of commitment could prove deleterious in the long term (especially if several partners get pregnant simultaneously, unexpectedly).

 

You also have to deal with strait up jealousy. Polygamy goes beyond an open relationship where as I understand it your still only supposed to have an emotional bond with on other. If you have multiple emotional bonds, you are going to have a favorite. Normally your favorite is the one you marry, as opposed to marrying a friend.

 

Has anyone here ever been in a trio friendship (3 really good friends). From my experience with them (been in more than one, which should tell you something right there), and my observations of them in other people, it is inevitable again that two of the three friends will form a better friendship with each other than with the third, and as time goes on the third person will resent the other two for it, and eventually the friendships start to fall apart (either you become a duo and a solo, or your become three solos). You see the same thing in any odd numbered relationship, since in a group of 5 or 7 say, people still form up into pairs, and one person is left over.

 

Standard polygamy is one man with multiple wives, but the reverse suffers the same problem. There can only be one top position for whichever side has the multiples, and if the lesser partners don't grow to resent the single gender, you can be very sure they will at least grow to hate each other. If you try to fix it with say 2 wives and 2 husbands, then congratulations. Your marriage now has all the intimacy of a perpetual double date. This would still work a lot better though, since you couple form into couples and do different things, even if you didn't always pair up the same way. Unless both people on either side prefer the same person on the other side, in which case you still have an extra.

 

And I'm not refering only to the bed, I'm talking about emotional intimacy as well.

[muggiwhplar]

Just clarifying something for a second here: I favor polyamory, not polygamy. Polyamory means not getting into exclusive relationships. Polygamy means having multiple wives. Polygamy's bullshit lol.

 

I'll edit this post further or post another reply later.

 

I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now

 

But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it.

 

My stance on relationships:

No relationship "model" is perfect; each has its flaws and weaknesses.

When it comes to monogamy, I think serial monogamy can work for some people, but long-term monogamy (3+) years works for practically nobody.

When comparing polyamory to monogamy, polyamory generally "beats" monogamy in every comparison.

 

Also remember that when I compare the two, I compare them based on happiness generated from the arrangement.

 

I've got a question though - does polygamous relationships offer any social benefits over a monogamous relationship? If so, does it outweigh the potential drawbacks? Does it have to be imposed on those who aren't comfortable with the idea of polygamous relationships?

 

What do you mean by social benefits? Why would one be uncomfortable with the idea of polyamorous relationships?

 

A problem I see with polygamy is the fact that there's a problem regarding family issues, and a lack of commitment could prove deleterious in the long term (especially if several partners get pregnant simultaneously, unexpectedly).

 

There's no family involved. It's just two individuals, living their lives with all the freedom in the world, and these two individuals happen to fool around sometimes. There's no "relationship."

[tripsis]

I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now

I honestly don't appreciate this kind of presumptuous attitude. I've been in my current relationship for over two years and before this I was in a 4 year long relationship. No I can't tell you for certain what my situation will be like in a year or two, but you can't assume that I'll suddenly be less in love by then.

 

But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it.

And you're not biased?

[muggiwhplar]

I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now

I honestly don't appreciate this kind of presumptuous attitude. I've been in my current relationship for over two years and before this I was in a 4 year long relationship. No I can't tell you for certain what my situation will be like in a year or two, but you can't assume that I'll suddenly be less in love by then.

 

But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it.

And you're not biased?

 

Yes, I know I sound like a dick whenever I discuss this with you lol. But there's not really any nice way of me saying "Based on the scientific articles I've read and all of the relationships I've seen/experienced, you're probably not going to feel this way forever. Or even for 3 years."

 

Why did your 4-year relationship end?

[tripsis]

I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now

I honestly don't appreciate this kind of presumptuous attitude. I've been in my current relationship for over two years and before this I was in a 4 year long relationship. No I can't tell you for certain what my situation will be like in a year or two, but you can't assume that I'll suddenly be less in love by then.

 

But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it.

And you're not biased?

 

Yes, I know I sound like a dick whenever I discuss this with you lol. But there's not really any nice way of me saying "Based on the scientific articles I've read and all of the relationships I've seen/experienced, you're probably not going to feel this way forever. Or even for 3 years."

 

What went wrong in your 4-year relationship?

You can't take science theories and your own experiences and apply them to everyone in the world. It's presumptuous and it makes you sound like you're running around saying, "I've read some articles so I'm the relationship expert." That's honestly not looking good :P

 

It was a long distance relationship and the hardship with the distance caused my ex to start being extremely jealous, paranoid, and needy to the point where I had to break up with him.

[muggiwhplar]

You can't take science theories and your own experiences and apply them to everyone in the world. It's presumptuous and it makes you sound like you're running around saying, "I've read some articles so I'm the relationship expert." That's honestly not looking good :P

 

Sure it sounds presumptuous because it's directly questioning your current situation. But if strong scientific and empirical evidence isn't enough, then what is?

 

It was a long distance relationship and the hardship with the distance caused my ex to start being extremely jealous, paranoid, and needy to the point where I had to break up with him.

 

Are you sure it was the long distance and hardship that caused him to start being extremely jealous, paranoid, and needy?

[tripsis]

You can't take science theories and your own experiences and apply them to everyone in the world. It's presumptuous and it makes you sound like you're running around saying, "I've read some articles so I'm the relationship expert." That's honestly not looking good :P

 

Sure it sounds presumptuous because it's directly questioning your current situation. But if strong scientific and empirical evidence isn't enough, then what is?

When we're talking about emotions and personalities coming together, science will never be able to apply to every single person/relationship. We're all born different with different personalities, morals, desires, tendencies, etc. You can't apply the same theories to every single person.

 

It was a long distance relationship and the hardship with the distance caused my ex to start being extremely jealous, paranoid, and needy to the point where I had to break up with him.

 

Are you sure it was the long distance and hardship that caused him to start being extremely jealous, paranoid, and needy?

Yes I am certain. And I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to challenge that :P

[muggiwhplar]

I understand that you're both happy right now-- probably happier than you were while single. And that's a good thing. I just don't think it's realistic to expect that to last forever, considering that feeling has never lasted for anyone forever.

 

Men usually start to get needy, women usually start to get bored, things start to fall apart. The model of monogamy revolves around this.

[tripsis]

I understand that you're both happy right now-- probably happier than you were while single. And that's a good thing. I just don't think it's realistic to expect that to last forever, considering that feeling has never lasted for anyone forever.

 

Men usually start to get needy, women usually start to get bored, things start to fall apart. The model of monogamy revolves around this.

You cannot possibly say that it has never lasted for anyone. You cannot presume to know what everyone's relationship is like in the entire world. I am willing to agree that it doesn't work out or last for most people, but no one can assume that it has never worked for anyone in the entire world.

 

I respect your preference for open relationships and all I ask is that you do not assume everyone and all relationships are exactly the same and that you do not make assumptions or predictions about mine.

[muggiwhplar]

Like I said-- you're both happy now. Be very grateful for that and appreciate every moment you have together.

[tripsis]

Sigh, I think I'm done arguing.

[Omar]

Actually, your empirical evidence is a little more complicated than you make it seem. There are studies out there that show romantic love can last and include sex. I've told you this in the past: on average, few people in monogamous relationships make it, but whether you do or don't isn't simply a matter of luck. If you want to, you can. Circumstances and biological "laws" aren't the only factor; you are also a factor, and one which is within your control. Indeed, most monogamous relationships are set to fail, but that doesn't mean yours is. You're not most people.

 

If you don't want a monogamous relationship, that's neutral. But you know too little about a specific relationship to predict the way it'll work out. If you consider the people involved to be your average guy and girl, you can say they have 87 chances out of 100 to fail, but if they both happen to be full of qualities which make for a healthy monogamous relationship, their chances are a lot higher. And since we are, to a certain extent, what we decide to be, you can't predict one single couple to have an 87% chance of failure.

[Assume Nothing]

Just clarifying something for a second here: I favor polyamory, not polygamy. Polyamory means not getting into exclusive relationships. Polygamy means having multiple wives. Polygamy's bullshit lol.

 

I'll edit this post further or post another reply later.

 

I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now

 

But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it.

 

My stance on relationships:

No relationship "model" is perfect; each has its flaws and weaknesses.

When it comes to monogamy, I think serial monogamy can work for some people, but long-term monogamy (3+) years works for practically nobody.

When comparing polyamory to monogamy, polyamory generally "beats" monogamy in every comparison.

 

Also remember that when I compare the two, I compare them based on happiness generated from the arrangement.

 

I've got a question though - does polygamous relationships offer any social benefits over a monogamous relationship? If so, does it outweigh the potential drawbacks? Does it have to be imposed on those who aren't comfortable with the idea of polygamous relationships?

 

What do you mean by social benefits? Why would one be uncomfortable with the idea of polyamorous relationships?

 

A problem I see with polygamy is the fact that there's a problem regarding family issues, and a lack of commitment could prove deleterious in the long term (especially if several partners get pregnant simultaneously, unexpectedly).

 

There's no family involved. It's just two individuals, living their lives with all the freedom in the world, and these two individuals happen to fool around sometimes. There's no "relationship."

 

Oops - I thought you advocated polygamy, not polyamory.

 

My interpretation of polyamory is to have 'multiple intimate sexual partners, with no strings attached'. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

When I refer to social benefits, I mean benefits to society as a whole; i.e. if everyone adopted it, then society would benefit because of increased overall happiness/wellbeing, or better family bonds when conceiving children. I don't have any moral qualms against either forms, but I can definitely see commitment issues arising as sex and emotions are not mutually exclusive.

 

I'm unlikely to be able to provide any points for long-term monogamy vs long term polyamory, though. I don't think that far ahead.

[muggiwhplar]

Actually, your empirical evidence is a little more complicated than you make it seem. There are studies out there that show romantic love can last and include sex. I've told you this in the past: on average, few people in monogamous relationships make it, but whether you do or don't isn't simply a matter of luck. If you want to, you can. Circumstances and biological "laws" aren't the only factor; you are also a factor, and one which is within your control. Indeed, most monogamous relationships are set to fail, but that doesn't mean yours is. You're not most people.

 

If you don't want a monogamous relationship, that's neutral. But you know too little about a specific relationship to predict the way it'll work out. If you consider the people involved to be your average guy and girl, you can say they have 87 chances out of 100 to fail, but if they both happen to be full of qualities which make for a healthy monogamous relationship, their chances are a lot higher. And since we are, to a certain extent, what we decide to be, you can't predict one single couple to have an 87% chance of failure.

 

The 13% aren't in the type of relationship that most people fantasize about-- the people in that group are very low-sex drive and very low-maintenance. Nothing too exciting there.

 

But again, why would you choose monogamy when the odds are drastically stacked against you, when you could choose polyamory which has zero risks or chances of failure, and yields at least the same (usually higher) amount of happiness?

 

When I refer to social benefits, I mean benefits to society as a whole; i.e. if everyone adopted it, then society would benefit because of increased overall happiness/wellbeing, or better family bonds when conceiving children. I don't have any moral qualms against either forms, but I can definitely see commitment issues arising as sex and emotions are not mutually exclusive.

 

I don't know-- whether or not the rest of society would benefit if everyone was polyamorous doesn't really matter to me. I don't think monogamy's benefiting society today as much as it did in the past, though. I think society is slowly starting to shift away from monogamy and marriage.

[Omar]

Actually, your empirical evidence is a little more complicated than you make it seem. There are studies out there that show romantic love can last and include sex. I've told you this in the past: on average, few people in monogamous relationships make it, but whether you do or don't isn't simply a matter of luck. If you want to, you can. Circumstances and biological "laws" aren't the only factor; you are also a factor, and one which is within your control. Indeed, most monogamous relationships are set to fail, but that doesn't mean yours is. You're not most people.

 

If you don't want a monogamous relationship, that's neutral. But you know too little about a specific relationship to predict the way it'll work out. If you consider the people involved to be your average guy and girl, you can say they have 87 chances out of 100 to fail, but if they both happen to be full of qualities which make for a healthy monogamous relationship, their chances are a lot higher. And since we are, to a certain extent, what we decide to be, you can't predict one single couple to have an 87% chance of failure.

 

The 13% aren't in the type of relationship that most people fantasize about-- the people in that group are very low-sex drive and very low-maintenance. Nothing too exciting there.

 

No, those are in the 87%. 87 might seem low to you, but that's irrelevant--point is it's not 100%. "The couples in [Dr. Aron's] study who were still madly in love after two decades together had sex an average of 2.2 times a week"

 

But again, why would you choose monogamy when the odds are drastically stacked against you, when you could choose polyamory which has zero risks or chances of failure, and yields at least the same (usually higher) amount of happiness?

 

In tripsis' case, she's in a healthy relationship already. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

When I refer to social benefits, I mean benefits to society as a whole; i.e. if everyone adopted it, then society would benefit because of increased overall happiness/wellbeing, or better family bonds when conceiving children. I don't have any moral qualms against either forms, but I can definitely see commitment issues arising as sex and emotions are not mutually exclusive.

 

This isn't the issue. Alternative relationships should be an option, but what I'm saying is you should give the benefit of doubt to existing monogamous relationships.

[muggiwhplar]

I thought I made it clear that I didn't want to debate this w/ people like Tripsis who are already happy in a relationship. I'm mostly interested in discussing this w/ the single guys who think they need a monogamous relationship to be happy. Anyways...

 

I do give the benefit of the doubt to the people I know who are dating and monogamous, just because they don't have anything to lose if things go south and I enjoy seeing them happy together (even though in the back of my mind I'm not expecting it to remain that way for very long).

 

However, when men want to get married, that's when I can no longer offer them the benefit of the doubt. Men have a LOT to lose if their marriage doesn't work. Crossing your fingers and hoping that everything will work out isn't being optimistic; it's being stupid.

[obfuscator]

Why don't you want to debate this with people who are happy in long-term monogamous relationships? Because it kind of debunks your theory that such relationships are inherently unhealthy?

 

And not everyone entering into a marriage just "crosses their fingers and hopes that everything will work out". In fact, given your disdain for monogamous relationships, I wonder why you feel you have the authority to make that claim...

[muggiwhplar]

Why don't you want to debate this with people who are happy in long-term monogamous relationships? Because it kind of debunks your theory that such relationships are inherently unhealthy?

 

And not everyone entering into a marriage just "crosses their fingers and hopes that everything will work out". In fact, given your disdain for monogamous relationships, I wonder why you feel you have the authority to make that claim...

 

No, I'm fine debating it with them as long as they've been in a relationship for at least 5 years or so. But I have yet to meet anyone who feels the same way about their partner 5+ years later as they did when they first met. Peoples' brains change too much while they're in the honeymoon phase for me to take their thoughts too seriously. I'd rather wait for their brains to return to normal while still in the relationship and see how they're doing :P

 

Are you still w/ your girlfriend btw? If so, how long's it been now?

[obfuscator]

Why don't you want to debate this with people who are happy in long-term monogamous relationships? Because it kind of debunks your theory that such relationships are inherently unhealthy?

 

And not everyone entering into a marriage just "crosses their fingers and hopes that everything will work out". In fact, given your disdain for monogamous relationships, I wonder why you feel you have the authority to make that claim...

 

No, I'm fine debating it with them as long as they've been in a relationship for at least 5 years or so. But I have yet to meet anyone who feels the same way about their partner 5+ years later as they did when they first met. Peoples' brains change too much while they're in the honeymoon phase for me to take their thoughts too seriously. I'd rather wait for their brains to return to normal while still in the relationship and see how they're doing :P

 

Are you still w/ your girlfriend btw? If so, how long's it been now?

 

I've been with my girlfriend for 4.5 years. And according to all the scientific evidence I've seen on the issue, the honeymoon period is considered to end at around 1.5 years into the relationship, not five.

[tripsis]

You keep changing your numbers around muggi. First you said 2, then 3, now 5? Honestly it sounds like you're changing it according to the people that exist in this thread so you don't get disproven :P (it was 2 before I came and said I was in a 2+ year relationship) And as John said, all the scientific evidence I've seen says the "honeymoon phase" somewhere between 12 and 18 months.

[Omar]

I thought I made it clear that I didn't want to debate this w/ people like Tripsis who are already happy in a relationship. I'm mostly interested in discussing this w/ the single guys who think they need a monogamous relationship to be happy. Anyways...

 

I do give the benefit of the doubt to the people I know who are dating and monogamous, just because they don't have anything to lose if things go south and I enjoy seeing them happy together (even though in the back of my mind I'm not expecting it to remain that way for very long).

 

However, when men want to get married, that's when I can no longer offer them the benefit of the doubt. Men have a LOT to lose if their marriage doesn't work. Crossing your fingers and hoping that everything will work out isn't being optimistic; it's being stupid.

Marriage isn't stupid. You're still thinking one should consider themselves to have an 87% chance of failure. In marriage, one should not assume the chances are on one's side. One should take concrete action to ensure they are, and that starts by choosing the right partner. Some ideas are listed in the link in my previous post. Examples of people who are still madly in love after 20 years also included; their brains, when presented with a picture of their partners, behaved the same way the brains of people who just got in a relationship did, except areas linked to fear and anxiety were inactive.

[muggiwhplar]

You keep changing your numbers around muggi. First you said 2, then 3, now 5? Honestly it sounds like you're changing it according to the people that exist in this thread so you don't get disproven :P (it was 2 before I came and said I was in a 2+ year relationship) And as John said, all the scientific evidence I've seen says the "honeymoon phase" somewhere between 12 and 18 months.

 

I just don't wanna argue with people who are currently in the honeymoon phase because I don't really see the point. You're right that I changed the numbers around-- I should've just said "anyone currently not in the honeymoon phase." I figured 5 years was a safe number :P

 

If the honeymoon phase lasted forever, then relationships would never fail.

[tripsis]

You keep changing your numbers around muggi. First you said 2, then 3, now 5? Honestly it sounds like you're changing it according to the people that exist in this thread so you don't get disproven :P (it was 2 before I came and said I was in a 2+ year relationship) And as John said, all the scientific evidence I've seen says the "honeymoon phase" somewhere between 12 and 18 months.

 

I just don't wanna argue with people who are currently in the honeymoon phase because I don't really see the point. You're right that I changed the numbers around-- I should've just said "anyone currently not in the honeymoon phase." I figured 5 years was a safe number lol

It seems like according to you, the entire relationship is a honeymoon phase. You're the one relying on scientific evidence and all the articles I've seen says the honeymoon phase lasts between 12 and 18 months. So I'm not in the honeymoon phase.. John isn't in the honeymoon phase.. and yet you still don't want to argue with us.

 

It's a little silly that you're quoting scientific evidence for your entire argument but then making up random numbers for the honeymoon phase so you can further support your argument and claim that John and I are still in the honeymoon phase and thus our experiences don't count.