"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Flyingjj]

 

 

I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now

 

But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it.

 

 

woah woah woah dude. people don't agree with you and you're calling them less open-minded and bias?

 

sheesh.

 

I thought I made it clear that I didn't want to debate this w/ people like Tripsis who are already happy in a relationship. I'm mostly interested in discussing this w/ the single guys who think they need a monogamous relationship to be happy. Anyways...

 

I'm single. I'm "open minded". Let's discuss while I'm ultimately pro-monogamy [even though I advocate open relationships for those who feel it is apropriate]

 

Why is that? Because all people are individuals. We're all the different. And because we're all different, you will never have the same relationship twice [even with the same two people involved]. To place a "standard" on a relationship is asinine. How you act and feel in a relationship is completely dependent on the people involved and their interpretation on what they feel is right for their conjoined situation. Do I need a monogamous relationship to be "truly happy" ? I don't really think so. I'm fairly happy at the moment just hooking up with girls and doing whatever. I'm not thrilled about it, but I'm not like depressed or anything. I'm just taking it for what it is and having fun. Cause life is pointless without fun and you can only play the hand that's dealt to you.

 

I agree with you - emotional states change. But you imply it as if it acts as a switch from "honeymoon relationship" to "boredom" to "single". It's not like that. People change every second. Every thought they think, every experience they encounter at every living moment - it changes you. And it all adds up.

 

Yeah; some day I want to get married. I want to have 2 sons and a daughter. I want to name my first son after my grandfather. I want to live in a suburb. I want to wake up, put on a tie, drink some shitty coffee and watch my wife make breakfast for my kids.

 

And if you don't understand the satisfaction that brings a man, I doubt you understand manhood at all.

=D>

[Giordano]

Me: You're thinking like I'm the ultra-conservative priest and you the smart hipster philosopher.

 

Muggi: No u r

 

 

Am I really now? :lol: I think you're the closed minded one here, BE OPEN MINDED DUDE LOLOLOLOL

[muggiwhplar]

Having a polyamorous lifestyle isn't necessary for happiness either.

 

You're correct. I alluded to this last week when I mentioned that I was the happiest I'd ever been and happier than most of my friends while I was single. If you're going to start having relationships, the structure of monogamy includes many risks which threaten that happiness. The polyamorous lifestyle doesn't really have anything like that, considering there isn't too much commitment involved, depending on what kind of relationship you go with. I talked about this a long time ago on this thread as well-- basically saying that the more you invest into something or the more you care about something, the greater influence it has over your emotions. The more you invest, the more you gain, but the more you have to lose if it doesn't work out.

 

Muggi, if you didn't desire relationships for happiness, then why would you even pursue them to begin with? Do you at least agree that there is a difference in happiness between a state when poly satisfies you and when it doesn't? Do you think that in such a state, you would be satisfied with no relationship at all?

 

Like I said above-- I'm very happy while remaining single. I don't pursue relationships. If I cross paths with a girl and things happen, that's awesome. If I don't, that's fine too. The point I was trying to make earlier when I asked why people entered monogamous relationships was that I feel many people enter relationships from a scarcity mentality, and that they enter in a state of neediness. If you feel unloved and you want a boyfriend/girlfriend just to feel loved because you think it'll make you happy, you're getting into a relationship for totally the wrong reasons. Only you can make yourself feel loved. When the people on this thread say things like "how do I get this girl to like me?!" it sort of implies a scarcity mentality in their lives-- that this one girl will magically fix all of his problems by making him feel loved, and that they are incapable of meeting and being with other girls. In polyamorous relationships, there's no such thing as scarcity-- it's a life of abundance instead. The monogamous relationship is usually built around the scarcity mentality.

 

Now if you're totally happy with yourself, cross paths with a girl who's also totally happy with herself, then you'll have a pretty good time while it lasts.

 

Muggi, you're preaching the Bible in a Mosque. You won't convince most people in this thread.

 

Yes, I know. I'm not on here to change beliefs-- I've come to the conclusion that the only way to change people's beliefs is to inspire them by demonstrating how happy you can be with an alternative set of beliefs. But I don't think that's very feasible for me using a medium such as this-- I'm just a stranger on the internet to most of these people :P So instead, the best I can hope for is to put the idea into people's minds that perhaps monogamy isn't the only way, and that Disney fairy tale/romantic comedy endings aren't realistic. Just "spreading awareness" as they say.

 

However, I do believe you have a point, seeing that today's society allows an individual to be independent enough from others to procure almost anything they need or want through money. The problem though is that we are still a gregarious species, that prefers to live as couples due to tradition and mentality. Because of this reason, people marry nowadays; whoever disagrees with this succumbs to pressure and eventually marries, or becomes a pariah in society (one day, you will succumb to this too, Muggi, don't forget that). If the mentality of society doesn't change to accept polyamorous lifestyles, then the advantages of being in polyamorous relationships are diminished, because of the anxiety and depression that arises will make a polyamorous individual a lot less content.

 

I could talk about this with you for a very, very, long time... but I'll try to keep my thoughts as concise as I can :P

 

I already am a pariah, and I have been my entire life. I'll reiterate a point that I've been trying to emphasize here for a while: your perception of the world around you dictates the way you feel. There was a time when I hated being so different from everybody else I knew. But then I changed the way I thought about it-- instead of hiding from it, I embraced it. And I've been extremely happy ever since. With that said, if you allow other people's opinions of you dictate the way you think, feel, and act, you're going to have a very difficult time finding happiness.

 

By the way, some might disagree, but this is probably the most interesting discussion I've seen on this thread.

 

I'm glad you think so :)

 

I suppose this question is aimed at muggi, because I am interested in his response, but anyone feel free to weigh in:

 

Do you think that a history of divorce (or lack therof) in the histories of the partners families might have an impact on the success of a monogamous relationship. The reason I fight so much with your idea is that there has never been a divorce in my mother or fathers family in living memory, and only one remarriage when a partner died. As far as I can tell, they all still love each other and are happy with each other, with one exception in an older cousin who would be my generation (and if I had to pick an unhappy marriage in either family, it would be her parents, and her husband is navy which brings a lot more stress into it. Frankly, I think he hates being around her, and they never should have married in the first place). My current partners family is in exactly the same position, with no known history of divorce. In fact, the longest running current marriage in that family is 60 years. It's pretty hard to beat that since someone normally dies by 85.

 

I guess the part I can't know for sure is that everyone is happy, but my observations can see signs of strain in only one couple, so I'm going to assume that everyone above me in my genetic line (so parents, aunts and uncles and up) are all still happy. In all honesty, the concept of divorce is actually pretty foreign to me. I've never seen it, and I don't think I know anyone who has. This promted me to look at the canadian divorce stats, and where the hell did you get an over 80% divorce rate from?

 

I don't think I ever said the divorce rate was 80%. It's more like 50%. I don't want to type out my elaboration of this again; read my response to Tripsis here

 

The one I would be interested in is:

The percentage of marriages in a given year that will end in divorce before their 30th wedding anniversary has increased slightly from 36.1 per cent in 1998 to 37.9 per cent in 2004.

Also, that seems to be the last year we have any published stats for, which is why I am using fairly old numbers. I imagine its climbed a bit higher since then, though I doubt its cracked 45% yet. I'm not really interested in remarriage stats. Not until I have a relationship that fails because of age (I don't do distance relationships, which has killed all of them thus far).

 

So monogamy does seem to work for more people than you give it credit for. Yes, some people are unhappy, and don't get a divorce, but its not fair to assume that there are all these unhappy couple out there. This begs the question, what is your experience. If I had to guess, I would say that your family, and the families of your friends have had a lot of unhappy marriages and/or divorces for you to be so against it. Am I close?

 

Not close at all, actually :P There haven't been any divorces in my family-- and that's including all of my aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. My parents have been happily married for 45 years. Both grandparents were married from their 20s till death.

 

There's a lot to talk about here, but in a nutshell the times have changed. Society, norms, and marriage were much different back then before the 1990s. Divorce was a major taboo back then, feminism and the sexual revolution had yet to occur, etc.

 

I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now

 

But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it.

 

 

woah woah woah dude. people don't agree with you and you're calling them less open-minded and bias?

 

sheesh.

 

The point I was trying to make was that when people are infatuated, they're a lot more "deluded" than when their emotions have subsided. Yguy's already past the honeymoon phase in his relationship, which is why I appreciate his insights more than the people whose chemicals are still all over the place :P He's also got a more realistic perception of his relationship and its future.

 

I'm single. I'm "open minded". Let's discuss while I'm ultimately pro-monogamy [even though I advocate open relationships for those who feel it is apropriate]

 

Why is that? Because all people are individuals. We're all the different. And because we're all different, you will never have the same relationship twice [even with the same two people involved]. To place a "standard" on a relationship is asinine. How you act and feel in a relationship is completely dependent on the people involved and their interpretation on what they feel is right for their conjoined situation. Do I need a monogamous relationship to be "truly happy" ? I don't really think so. I'm fairly happy at the moment just hooking up with girls and doing whatever. I'm not thrilled about it, but I'm not like depressed or anything. I'm just taking it for what it is and having fun. Cause life is pointless without fun and you can only play the hand that's dealt to you.

 

I agree with you - emotional states change. But you imply it as if it acts as a switch from "honeymoon relationship" to "boredom" to "single". It's not like that. People change every second. Every thought they think, every experience they encounter at every living moment - it changes you. And it all adds up.

 

Yes, every human being is different. But there are certain things that almost all human beings have in common. For example, you should know that neediness repels girls. Do you think that that's only a situational factor, and that it's possible for some guys to be extremely needy and still end up in a successful relationship where both sides are happy because we're always changing?

 

Furthermore-- people change, yes. But the structure of monogamy doesn't.

 

Yeah; some day I want to get married. I want to have 2 sons and a daughter. I want to name my first son after my grandfather. I want to live in a suburb. I want to wake up, put on a tie, drink some shitty coffee and watch my wife make breakfast for my kids.

 

And if you don't understand the satisfaction that brings a man, I doubt you understand manhood at all.

 

That sounds terrible to me-- we both have a different understanding of "manhood." Another big topic there-- let me know if you wanna discuss it!

[tripsis]

Yguy's already past the honeymoon phase in his relationship, which is why I appreciate his insights more than the people whose chemicals are still all over the place :P He's also got a more realistic perception of his relationship and its future.

Why are you still insistent that I'm not..?

[Omar]

Muggi, if one day you stopped being satisfied with poly, what would you do?

Me: You're thinking like I'm the ultra-conservative priest and you the smart hipster philosopher.

 

Muggi: No u r

 

 

Am I really now? :lol: I think you're the closed minded one here, BE OPEN MINDED DUDE LOLOLOLOL

Flawless argument!

[MuffinMaddy]

 

Ive never posted here before, but since Im not really playing Runescape anymore I cant exactly offload all of my feelings onto my clan anymore.

 

[hide]

 

But basically, my story is, there is a guy I have fancied since September at school, immediately I saw him I had a double take and was like Wow, whos that? But, being a shy person in real life, I had no actual reason to talk to him, since I wasnt in any of his classes, and basically had no method of talking to him. For the induction days, we were put into groups and my friend got to meet him, and found out hes really nice.

 

 

Another of my friends is in his music class and she told me that she likes him. (Ill call her Mary for the purpose of the story) At the time, I knew I liked him too but I didnt tell Mary my friend that, and I wouldnt have minded her going for him. One day after school, I decided to go to the music room with Mary who likes him to work on our music work. When I arrived, he was there and we were both essentially competing for the attention Mary, whos so talented at music and offered to help us both out. He looked like he really liked her, and we got into a conversation with Mary her introducing me us to him.

 

 

I pretended I had never known of him before and introduced myself and we had the normal conversation of What subjects do you do? and What school did you go to before you came here? etc etc. All was nice.

 

 

And then my initial friend who liked him went into a downhill spiral of serious depression and she has not been attending school for two months. Were not sure if she will be coming back to school, or whether she has to repeat the year again. In the meantime, a girl who knew him before he started coming to our school has been overly flirtatious with him, even when Mary was still here. Mary did express a bit of annoyance with this. Now the girl has got a boyfriend and rumours state that she apparently slept with the guy Mary and I like. But here is where I come in: About a month ago, I went to do my coursework by myself after school, and by complete mistake, I walked into a room where he was working, with another girl. I decided to sit down and work there anyway, even though Im generally shy and dont like intruding on other people in conversation. The conversation somehow turned into a discussion about Mary and where she has been all this time. The guy then addressed me You knew Mary didnt you? and then I got involved in the conversation. Ever since, the guy and I have been meeting regularly to do coursework together and I still fancy him. We have become good friends, and he is flirty with me, but Im wary of this since he has a flirty personality in general. He is clearly interested in me as a person since he seems to want to spend more time with me, he seems genuinely upset that I have little self confidence and he remembers a lot of what I say. When we discuss relationships however he says hes never had a girlfriend and is worried about it being expensive to maintain a relationship. He admits hes made out with girls but doesnt fancy anyone at school, so Im not sure if I should push anything further. So far we just text each other regularly, and he tries to motivate me to join the clubs hes in such as choir or running club. Hes always smiling when we talk and we joke a lot too. Sometimes I really feel like I fancy him, and other times I am fine with just being friends.

 

 

What Im unsure of is whether I should go for him or just keep it a friendship, since Im aware that Mary likes him anyway?

 

 

And if Mary should come back and Im dating him, that might make her condition worse. [/hide]

 

 

[Assume Nothing]

I see that as an opportunity - but it might be too early to 'date' him. It might be a good idea to get to truly know him first, which is where self-confidence comes in.

 

I'm a little confused on the story in terms of where 'Mary' fits in - is it possible to have a more condensed version so it could be more easily understood?

[Surprises]

 

Ive never posted here before, but since Im not really playing Runescape anymore I cant exactly offload all of my feelings onto my clan anymore.

 

[hide]

 

But basically, my story is, there is a guy I have fancied since September at school, immediately I saw him I had a double take and was like Wow, whos that? But, being a shy person in real life, I had no actual reason to talk to him, since I wasnt in any of his classes, and basically had no method of talking to him. For the induction days, we were put into groups and my friend got to meet him, and found out hes really nice.

 

 

Another of my friends is in his music class and she told me that she likes him. (Ill call her Mary for the purpose of the story) At the time, I knew I liked him too but I didnt tell Mary my friend that, and I wouldnt have minded her going for him. One day after school, I decided to go to the music room with Mary who likes him to work on our music work. When I arrived, he was there and we were both essentially competing for the attention Mary, whos so talented at music and offered to help us both out. He looked like he really liked her, and we got into a conversation with Mary her introducing me us to him.

 

 

I pretended I had never known of him before and introduced myself and we had the normal conversation of What subjects do you do? and What school did you go to before you came here? etc etc. All was nice.

 

 

And then my initial friend who liked him went into a downhill spiral of serious depression and she has not been attending school for two months. Were not sure if she will be coming back to school, or whether she has to repeat the year again. In the meantime, a girl who knew him before he started coming to our school has been overly flirtatious with him, even when Mary was still here. Mary did express a bit of annoyance with this. Now the girl has got a boyfriend and rumours state that she apparently slept with the guy Mary and I like. But here is where I come in: About a month ago, I went to do my coursework by myself after school, and by complete mistake, I walked into a room where he was working, with another girl. I decided to sit down and work there anyway, even though Im generally shy and dont like intruding on other people in conversation. The conversation somehow turned into a discussion about Mary and where she has been all this time. The guy then addressed me You knew Mary didnt you? and then I got involved in the conversation. Ever since, the guy and I have been meeting regularly to do coursework together and I still fancy him. We have become good friends, and he is flirty with me, but Im wary of this since he has a flirty personality in general. He is clearly interested in me as a person since he seems to want to spend more time with me, he seems genuinely upset that I have little self confidence and he remembers a lot of what I say. When we discuss relationships however he says hes never had a girlfriend and is worried about it being expensive to maintain a relationship. He admits hes made out with girls but doesnt fancy anyone at school, so Im not sure if I should push anything further. So far we just text each other regularly, and he tries to motivate me to join the clubs hes in such as choir or running club. Hes always smiling when we talk and we joke a lot too. Sometimes I really feel like I fancy him, and other times I am fine with just being friends.

 

 

What Im unsure of is whether I should go for him or just keep it a friendship, since Im aware that Mary likes him anyway?

 

 

And if Mary should come back and Im dating him, that might make her condition worse. [/hide]

 

 

Have you told "Mary" about your situation? From experience it is always best telling the friend who has the same feelings for a guy/girl first as it saves the [bleep]iness and arguments later when they will ultimately find out and feel completely betrayed by you.

 

He also seems trouble and from what you said he won't be loyal or decent or honourable in a relationship (yes, I'm assuming a lot from pure text but tell tale signs.) He's one of those guys not built for a relationship, he will just fiddle girls around.

[MuffinMaddy]

In reply to Skeptic:

 

Okay, so Mary and I both like the same guy. Mary has better access to him since she's in his Music class, and they became friends earlier than when I became friends with him. I've known Mary about 3 years now and we've always liked the same guys. In about October, since girls like to tell each other a lot of 'personal' things, we're joking around (Mary and I) and prod each other about who we 'fancy'. And she tells me she likes the guy I like. I'll call him "Oliver". And when she told me, I decided to say that I didn't like anyone, when in fact I like Oliver too, and I liked him since the second day of school. Except I didn't have a reason to talk to him or get to know him because I wasn't in any of his classes, and we aren't in the same social group either. He's very confident, and in the typical 'popular' group, but he's a very nice person. So Mary and Oliver are generally flirty until she randomly took 2 months off school. No one had heard from her or anything, but apparently she's suffering from depression. Oliver cares about her since he sometimes asks me where she is, and I feel bad because I really don't know. So Mary is basically one of the reasons I'm cautious about possibly getting with Oliver.

 

EDIT:

 

"Have you told "Mary" about your situation? From experience it is always best telling the friend who has the same feelings for a guy/girl first as it saves the [bleep]iness and arguments later when they will ultimately find out and feel completely betrayed by you.

 

He also seems trouble and from what you said he won't be loyal or decent or honourable in a relationship (yes, I'm assuming a lot from pure text but tell tale signs.) He's one of those guys not built for a relationship, he will just fiddle girls around. "

 

No, I haven't spoken to Mary since her birthday in December when I simply texted her a small 'happy birthday' message. I don't feel that this would be the right time to break it to her that I like the same guy that she does. I don't see Mary and I arguing, but you're right about the feelings of betrayal, because I would feel the same if the situation was twisted around. And you might be right about him being trouble, because he appears honest, but sometimes there are holes in his stories and things that I don't fully believe or trust, but I do still think he's a really nice guy. We don't really acknowledge each other in public, it's weird. But he does notice me because when we actually meet up after school or whenever, he does mention little things like "You were laughing a lot today" or just random parts of my day that I didn't expect him to notice. I'm sure I could get over him, but it's just as if I like him all over again when he walks into the cafeteria or comes to a choir rehearsal. It's like back to square one.

Edited February 12, 2012 by MuffinMaddy

[Omar]

How old are you?

[MuffinMaddy]

Seventeen

[Assume Nothing]

I think you're experiencing a confused state between trying to dismiss it for the sake of preserving a friendship, and acting on the psychological impulse. I think it'll be a good idea to be relatively open about it, and ask the guy how he feels about the entire situation. It's not your fault if he's the one who's trying to get your attention.

 

It may be that he has already determined who he likes, but he lacks the confidence to tell either of you - even those who appear confident can have difficulty confiding in such a delicate issues, especially for someone who has never dated before. If you're both in that kind of situation, it's going to be a long process of testing the waters.

 

I can't see any harm in it, but we'll see from the other responses you get.

[MuffinMaddy]

That's cool too, I guess I'll chill about it to be honest, I can take the friendship zone too, it's just that I've played "the good friend" part a lot and let others take the ones I like.

[Surprises]

1) Being expensive to maintain a relationship

2) He admits hes made out with girls but doesnt fancy anyone at school

3) Flirty personality

4) Hes never had a girlfriend

5) Genuinely upset that I have little self confidence

[/Quote]

 

He has trouble written all over him:

 

1) If he is worrying about this before you are even in a relationship it doesn't bode well. If money is the main focus in the relationship it shows a lot about his character.

 

2) He paints the picture as one of those guys who prefers to have multiple "friends with benefit" scenarios rather than one solid relationship. (We resort back to this threads raging polygamy/monogamy argument)

 

3) Flirty personality doesn't ever go down well with guys as they most likely are not loyal especially tied in with the other points.

 

4) Tied in with number 3, he doesn't seem the type of guy who hasn't had a relationship because he is nerdy and quiet, reclusive from the social side, but because he hasn't been able to keep down a girl for long enough or isn't interested in a girl long enough for him to deem it important. He wants to get what he can get from a girl without having to put anything in.

 

5) Tied in with number 4, he thinks that you will take too long to get anything from without him putting in the effort.

 

I would walk away at this point.

[MuffinMaddy]

1) Being expensive to maintain a relationship

2) He admits he's made out with girls but doesn't fancy anyone at school

3) Flirty personality

4) He's never had a girlfriend

5) Genuinely upset that I have little self confidence

[/Quote]

 

He has trouble written all over him:

 

1) If he is worrying about this before you are even in a relationship it doesn't bode well. If money is the main focus in the relationship it shows a lot about his character.

 

2) He paints the picture as one of those guys who prefers to have multiple "friends with benefit" scenarios rather than one solid relationship. (We resort back to this threads raging polygamy/monogamy argument)

 

3) Flirty personality doesn't ever go down well with guys as they most likely are not loyal especially tied in with the other points.

 

4) Tied in with number 3, he doesn't seem the type of guy who hasn't had a relationship because he is nerdy and quiet, reclusive from the social side, but because he hasn't been able to keep down a girl for long enough or isn't interested in a girl long enough for him to deem it important. He wants to get what he can get from a girl without having to put anything in.

 

5) Tied in with number 4, he thinks that you will take too long to get anything from without him putting in the effort.

 

I would walk away at this point.

 

You make good points and there's part of me that agrees with most of what you're saying. However I don't think I would ever completely walk away, I think I could be fine with not ever going out with him and keeping the entire thing a little 'crush' that I once had over him. I guess we'll just have to see how things pan out.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice, I was scared at first to post here :P

[Omar]

I disagree entirely about 5). If a girl has ever presented you with a picture on which she looks great and asked you if she's ugly on it, you know exactly how frustrating the self-doubt of others can be, even when there are no conflicts of interest.

 

I would talk to Mary about it, then look into knowing this guy a little better, and then going for a relationship. If he turns out to be a dick, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger".

[Assume Nothing]

... I wrote relatively long post to accidentally backspace.

 

In short, I find it slightly presumptuous to base his character on those actions alone. It's not unlikely that he's simply inexperienced, and he has a poor interpretation of what dating really is. The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

We don't know enough about the context of him 'making out' with other girls - variables such as time period and sexual attraction are very relevant. It's a bit difficult to judge if we lack these details.

 

In regards to the polyamory/monogamy - I'm not sure how you can infer that. Please elaborate.

 

Premise 4 and 5 are simply assumptions that's as likely to be right as it would be wrong. It's based very loosely on what actually happened, and therefore postulating these outcomes are foolish at this stage.

 

It seems like much of the reasoning is projection or generalizations of other occurrences. It's important to bear context in mind.

[Surprises]

... I wrote relatively long post to accidentally backspace.

 

In short, I find it slightly presumptuous to base his character on those actions alone. It's not unlikely that he's simply inexperienced, and he has a poor interpretation of what dating really is. The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

We don't know enough about the context of him 'making out' with other girls - variables such as time period and sexual attraction are very relevant. It's a bit difficult to judge if we lack these details.

 

In regards to the polyamory/monogamy - I'm not sure how you can infer that. Please elaborate.

 

Premise 4 and 5 are simply assumptions that's as likely to be right as it would be wrong. It's based very loosely on what actually happened, and therefore postulating these outcomes are foolish at this stage.

 

It seems like much of the reasoning is projection or generalizations of other occurrences. It's important to bear context in mind.

 

Of course, everything is presumptuous. Neither of us know the guy in person so we take experiences from our past that we can relate to the scenario in question, therefore neither of our advice is likely to be accurate or correct as we are constructing a figure in our head of the guy in question from life experiences which is most likely to be wrong as we are unique.

 

The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

Yes it is but it is never the major concern of a relationship. A relationship should function without money and it should at no point stop one from occurring. Don't you think it's worrying how he is already concerned about money in a relationship?

 

polyamory/monogamy

 

It was a reference back to a previous point again about him having multiple sexual partners at once. Yes I'm making presumptions here but I know all too recently how 17 year old, teenage boys float about with girls and have few morals

[MuffinMaddy]

... I wrote relatively long post to accidentally backspace.

 

In short, I find it slightly presumptuous to base his character on those actions alone. It's not unlikely that he's simply inexperienced, and he has a poor interpretation of what dating really is. The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

We don't know enough about the context of him 'making out' with other girls - variables such as time period and sexual attraction are very relevant. It's a bit difficult to judge if we lack these details.

 

In regards to the polyamory/monogamy - I'm not sure how you can infer that. Please elaborate.

 

Premise 4 and 5 are simply assumptions that's as likely to be right as it would be wrong. It's based very loosely on what actually happened, and therefore postulating these outcomes are foolish at this stage.

 

It seems like much of the reasoning is projection or generalizations of other occurrences. It's important to bear context in mind.

 

Yeah, he mostly told me that he made out with girls while drunk and at parties, and he kissed two other girls I know as a 'joke'.

Personally, I don't actually mind or care about all of that, the thing that bugs me more is whether he slept with another girl while she was still in a relationship.

That would probably be the thing that would deter me from him most of all. It just shows a lack of principles for me. I would not flirt with another girl's boyfriend or try to steal him for myself.

I just find that wrong for me to do, and while others would possibly disagree with me on this, it's just a moral I have, which is why I made sure he was single before I went any further down that route.

It may well be the reason why I didn't admit it to Mary then, I probably won't know exactly why I didn't admit it, but if they were to date, I wouldn't be jealous but I would rather not have Mary feeling guilty for dating him while she knew that I liked him too.

[Assume Nothing]

... I wrote relatively long post to accidentally backspace.

 

In short, I find it slightly presumptuous to base his character on those actions alone. It's not unlikely that he's simply inexperienced, and he has a poor interpretation of what dating really is. The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

We don't know enough about the context of him 'making out' with other girls - variables such as time period and sexual attraction are very relevant. It's a bit difficult to judge if we lack these details.

 

In regards to the polyamory/monogamy - I'm not sure how you can infer that. Please elaborate.

 

Premise 4 and 5 are simply assumptions that's as likely to be right as it would be wrong. It's based very loosely on what actually happened, and therefore postulating these outcomes are foolish at this stage.

 

It seems like much of the reasoning is projection or generalizations of other occurrences. It's important to bear context in mind.

 

Of course, everything is presumptuous. Neither of us know the guy in person so we take experiences from our past that we can relate to the scenario in question, therefore neither of our advice is likely to be accurate or correct as we are constructing a figure in our head of the guy in question from life experiences which is most likely to be wrong as we are unique.

 

The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

Yes it is but it is never the major concern of a relationship. A relationship should function without money and it should at no point stop one from occurring. Don't you think it's worrying how he is already concerned about money in a relationship?

 

polyamory/monogamy

 

It was a reference back to a previous point again about him having multiple sexual partners at once. Yes I'm making presumptions here but I know all too recently how 17 year old, teenage boys float about with girls and have few morals

 

I base my opinion on what actually happened, whereas you seemed to base yours on a stereotype. That's the point of contention.

 

The point regarding money; I've illustrated why the financial aspect could be problematic to some. It obviously shouldn't be the primary concern of initiating a relationship, but we can't be sure if it's his primary concern - it's just said to be a 'concern'. If he understood what a relationship entailed, perhaps he wouldn't be so stringent?

 

I didn't quite catch the part about him having several sexual partners at once, but if that's the case, then I'd agree that it may be necessary to reconsider the guy being a potential partner.

 

I'd disagree on the point about him having 'no morals' - it depends what's defined as morals, what kind of upbringing he's had, etc. It's a bit of a sweeping generalization to state that he would have no morals because 'there's many cases of teenage boys who float around with girls'.

 

I'd suggest that you draw your own conclusions, Maddy. I'm slightly concerned about the 'making out for a joke' - in what context is this 'joke'? I'd understand if he was drunk, since people are likely to lose their inhibitions and act on psychological impulses... not so much for a joke though.

 

It seems awfully complicated. You need to have a discussion with him.

[MuffinMaddy]

It's still a rumour however that he apparently did sleep with a girl while she had a boyfriend, but at the same time, she flirts with anything that moves.

It could easily be something she made up because she clearly likes him too. He has directly told me that he doesn't like how flirtatious she is though, and he seems genuinely uncomfortable with it, even though he doesn't express it directly to her. I will probably talk to him about it more regularly, but I don't want it to look like I have a huge problem with it, because for now we are just friends, and as a friend, it shouldn't really bother me too much unless I felt something else (which I do, but he doesn't know that).

 

EDIT: And whenever I feel like I can get over him or be okay with him living his life and me just being a friend, or an observer, I see him again and like him as if I had never seen him before >.<

Edited February 12, 2012 by MuffinMaddy

[Assume Nothing]

Let's get this established: Do you actually want to be with him as partners, or would you be content with friend-zoning? I'd suggest taking the course of whatever makes you happy, because in the end - that's all that matters in this discussion.

 

Don't do it too hastily if you're uncertain, though. There's too many people on tip.it that have expressed regret for these decisions, and these regrets are painful. They last a frustratingly long time too, to ponder the 'what ifs'.

[Surprises]

... I wrote relatively long post to accidentally backspace.

 

In short, I find it slightly presumptuous to base his character on those actions alone. It's not unlikely that he's simply inexperienced, and he has a poor interpretation of what dating really is. The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

We don't know enough about the context of him 'making out' with other girls - variables such as time period and sexual attraction are very relevant. It's a bit difficult to judge if we lack these details.

 

In regards to the polyamory/monogamy - I'm not sure how you can infer that. Please elaborate.

 

Premise 4 and 5 are simply assumptions that's as likely to be right as it would be wrong. It's based very loosely on what actually happened, and therefore postulating these outcomes are foolish at this stage.

 

It seems like much of the reasoning is projection or generalizations of other occurrences. It's important to bear context in mind.

 

Of course, everything is presumptuous. Neither of us know the guy in person so we take experiences from our past that we can relate to the scenario in question, therefore neither of our advice is likely to be accurate or correct as we are constructing a figure in our head of the guy in question from life experiences which is most likely to be wrong as we are unique.

 

The financial aspect can be daunting if his interpretation of dating is to constantly buy eachother gifts, nights out, and expensive meals.

 

Yes it is but it is never the major concern of a relationship. A relationship should function without money and it should at no point stop one from occurring. Don't you think it's worrying how he is already concerned about money in a relationship?

 

polyamory/monogamy

 

It was a reference back to a previous point again about him having multiple sexual partners at once. Yes I'm making presumptions here but I know all too recently how 17 year old, teenage boys float about with girls and have few morals

 

I base my opinion on what actually happened, whereas you seemed to base yours on a stereotype. That's the point of contention.

 

The point regarding money; I've illustrated why the financial aspect could be problematic to some. It obviously shouldn't be the primary concern of initiating a relationship, but we can't be sure if it's his primary concern - it's just said to be a 'concern'. If he understood what a relationship entailed, perhaps he wouldn't be so stringent?

 

I didn't quite catch the part about him having several sexual partners at once, but if that's the case, then I'd agree that it may be necessary to reconsider the guy being a potential partner.

 

I'd disagree on the point about him having 'no morals' - it depends what's defined as morals, what kind of upbringing he's had, etc. It's a bit of a sweeping generalization to state that he would have no morals because 'there's many cases of teenage boys who float around with girls'.

 

I'd suggest that you draw your own conclusions, Maddy. I'm slightly concerned about the 'making out for a joke' - in what context is this 'joke'? I'd understand if he was drunk, since people are likely to lose their inhibitions and act on psychological impulses... not so much for a joke though.

 

It seems awfully complicated. You need to have a discussion with him.

 

I base my opinions on what was stated in the text which led me to stereotype him from personal experience. You seem to have skipped over or not deemed those sections as important while I do and it is again due to a difference in experience with relationships and I wouldn't have stereotyped him firstly in this manner if those signs which I have seen in people where not visible in the text.

 

But money shouldn't even be thought of when you enter a relationship... It's like he is almost saying, "Look, I'm not going to spend a lot of money, if any, on you in a relationship." Now, that's fine enough, I have friends who are in relationships like that but how he is openly saying is my bug with the issue.

 

The basic morals where you stay true to somebody and try to do no harm purposely, morals that every human being should have fundamentally, independent of upbringing, class, race, religion.

[MuffinMaddy]

Let's get this established: Do you actually want to be with him as partners, or would you be content with friend-zoning? I'd suggest taking the course of whatever makes you happy, because in the end - that's all that matters in this discussion.

 

Don't do it too hastily if you're uncertain, though. There's too many people on tip.it that have expressed regret for these decisions, and these regrets are painful. They last a frustratingly long time too, to ponder the 'what ifs'.

 

 

For now, I agree with you, but I would be okay with friend zoning if he really doesn't want a girlfriend right now. The worst thing would be to put him under pressure to pick someone now, since it's not really compulsary to have a girlfriend/boyfriend at this stage. I think slow and steady would be a good idea, I guess I have to wait, since I don't want to rush anything either.

 

But the simple answer to your intial question is yes, I would like to be his girlfriend, if he was to ask me out, although I wouldn't be upset or disappointed if that never happened, since even talking to him on a friendship basis was pretty surreal to me when it started. I never expected to talk to him, let alone become friends or get his number.

[muggiwhplar]

Muggi, if one day you stopped being satisfied with poly, what would you do?

 

I'm not sure if that's even possible... at least not until I'm like 60 years old lol. What do you think would cause such a thing to happen?

 

I'd remain single, though probably. I value my freedom too much to go monogamous; there wouldn't really be any "need" for me to go monogamous either.